Tuesday, November 19, 2013
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[12:19:39] <dwd> SouL, LoL doesn't quite use XMPP. It's been heavily modified because they had some severe integration problems as I understand things.
[12:21:19] <Kev> For a long time you could connect with standard clients, though. No idea if that's still true.
[12:21:58] <dwd> AIUI, you probably still can, but various things (like rosters) will behave very oddly.
[12:22:43] <SouL> Well, I don't know... I don't play videogames at the moment but I had a friend that could join into a conference of the game with a client
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[13:04:33] <dwd> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Services/Presence#Overview Anyone else seen this?
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[13:05:41] <fippo> just a couple of minutes ago
[13:05:58] <fippo> there was the suggestion that I should point them to SIMPLE :-)
[13:11:34] *ralphm wacks fippo
[13:12:39] <ralphm> I notice that Facebook is a stated use case. Funny it has an XMPP client interface to work with :-D
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[13:15:49] <fippo> heh, I responded that this would be cruel
[13:18:55] <dwd> We should probably find a volunteer to go discuss their requirements and whether XMPP could fulfill them.
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[13:19:32] <dwd> Someone unlikely to suffer from a flippancy-overspill event. :-)
[13:21:20] <dwd> Ah, I've been told that Simon Tennant is already talking to them.
[13:21:34] <SouL> Great.
[13:23:06] <fippo> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/wg-presence
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[13:33:00] <ralphm> Although it might make sense for BuddyCloud, quipping "we tried to ignore as much of XMPP as possible" will surely be convincing.
[13:34:07] <Kev> Presumably it's relevant whether Simon's talking with his BC hat on or XSF hat on.
[13:34:17] <Kev> And if the former, we should find someone to talk to them with an XSF hat.
[13:34:36] <ralphm> People don't generally distinguish hats at all
[13:36:05] <ralphm> I am pretty sure that are a lot of people within the XSF that don't agree with that sentence or the design decisions behind it.
[13:36:19] <fippo> i didn't talk there yet -- because it's way to tempting to say xmpp still has a presence scalability problem :-)
[13:41:06] <fippo> i do actually agree with 'most applications assume presence is "one friend list to rule them all" - different apps have different social circles'
[13:41:33] <fippo> but you can do that by extending the presence model of 6121
[13:41:44] <ralphm> fippo: indeed
[13:42:05] <fippo> i.e. the roster simply becomes a binary "known" decision used for filtering messages
[13:44:27] <dwd> fippo, XMPP's basic <presence/> is universal, but PEP can be sliced and diced to different Circles^Wroster groups.
[13:45:26] <dwd> Certainly in One Implementation That I Was Once Involved In, you could just set the access-model on a PEP node to be "roster", set the groups, and only those groups would see your atrocious taste in music, for example.
[13:46:20] <fippo> yeah, we have the groups already. we don't use them extensively, but we might
[13:50:07] <fippo> heh peter :-)
[13:51:08] <ralphm> XMPP and PEP specifically are discussed at length in the 2013-10-31 meeting notes
[13:52:50] <dwd> Which meeting?
[13:53:10] <ralphm> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Services/Roadmaps/Presence/Meetings/notes_20131031
[13:54:07] <fippo> i do wonder why they discuss that without asking jack moffitt...
[13:55:20] <Kev> Assuming everyone at Moz knows Jack may be a push :)
[13:56:21] <fippo> he's written a book so i assume he's famous. just like you :-p
[13:56:59] <Kev> How many people work on Moz?
[14:01:16] <dwd> Did you want an exact number, or does the closest win?
[14:07:47] <ralphm> Mozilla Corporation has 600+ employees, according to wikipedia
[14:09:08] <dwd> And more than 600 people know Jack, so therefore, everyone at Mozilla knows Jack.
[14:09:25] *dwd is good at this logic stuff.
[14:09:31] <Kev> I'm glad we settled that.
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[15:07:39] <Lloyd> Is bear the best person to contact to get a news story added to xmpp.org?
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[15:15:44] <dwd> There's actually a few people who can do it. What's the story?
[15:16:29] <dwd> I think actually I can. If my account is still live.
[15:17:39] <Lloyd> Cool, will get an email to you. About the next XMPP/realtime UK with Joachim speaking.
[15:19:25] <Edwin Mons> Ah, the one I wanted to attend, but is conveniently scheduled a week before I'll be in London ;)
[15:20:41] <Lloyd> dwd: sent to dave@cri…. . Thanks.
[15:24:29] <dwd> Ah, can't do the events bit though.
[15:24:44] <dwd> Well, I can add it to the XML files, I suppose, but can't run calgen.py
[15:25:01] <MattJ> fippo, re. XMPP's presence scalability issue - I'm all for solving it (if and) when it becomes a problem :)
[15:25:21] <MattJ> (catching up on the log)
[15:25:35] <fippo> mattj: :-p
[15:25:58] <Lloyd> dwd: thanks, will email bear and let him know you've done the news bit
[15:26:00] <dwd> Lloyd, Ah. I don't seem to ahve an account. Or at least, not on this email address.
[15:26:19] <dwd> Lloyd, Sorry, should have checked that first...
[15:26:28] <Lloyd> dwd, ok then I'll just ask bear to do it all :) No problem, thanks for trying
[15:26:49] <dwd> Lloyd, We should probably sort out Laura with an account there, anyway.
[15:28:50] <Lloyd> dwd: yeah, I'll leave it for your board meeting ;)
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[16:13:33] <Kev> Conveniently scheduled on my week off :)
[16:13:51] <MattJ> Convenient for whom? :)
[16:16:06] <Kev> Everyone who woludn't want me to be there :)
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[16:24:22] <dwd> Come now. Who wouldn't want you to be there?
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