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bear
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waqas
Thanks bear
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bear
oh! sorry about that all - left the laptop lid open and came back to find my cat sleeping on it
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Neustradamus
waqas, bear ?
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dwd
intosi, Please don't suggest that anywhere near Ralph.
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intosi
What, the xmppizza instead of proper restaurant for the event?
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dwd
Right.
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intosi
I think Ralph likes the Sint-Jezuseik place as well. There's nights left at FOSDEM/summit for an xmppizza night.
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ralphm
intosi: we went to Sizzle Pie's a number of nights in a row in Portland.
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intosi
Couple of nights in a row. Pity your stomachs.
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fippo
all nights except the one of the dinner as i reecall
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dwd
fippo, Although there were multiple Sizzle Pies involved.
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dwd
fippo, You know, for a varied diet.
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intosi
I really missed out.
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ralphm
The thing is, they had a reasonable bar, too.
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dwd
The one on the east side of the river? Yes.
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fippo
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4eoitc9vn19bkxn/fukw824CMY#lh:null-jvbrecording3.mp4 -- short screencast about the jitsi videobridge meeting webrtc ;-)
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dwd
stpeter, Beat you. :-P
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stpeter
yeah, I noticed :-)
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fippo
mh... are there places with good meat in london?
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Kev
I suspect there's some good food somewhere.
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Kev
Perhaps the London theme could be curry instead.
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intosi
Typical British food, like Tikka Masala
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Kev
Yes.
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dwd
Can we go for a really cheap and tacky curry to annoy Mili?
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Kev
I don't think it matters where, as long as well all have Tikka Masala and proclaim how much we like authentic Indian cuisine.
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stpeter
Kev/intosi: :-)
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dwd
My worry about a London (only) Summit is that FOSDEM is both a useful draw for some, and excellent outreach for us.
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stpeter
well, we don't have a devroom this year
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Kev
I think the outreach aspect is dramatically reduced without a devroom.
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dwd
At least, that's my only explanation for why the XSF, unlike every other SDO, has a strong European contigent.
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stpeter
oh
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dwd
contingent, even.
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stpeter
I think it's because people in Europe (maybe even people in the UK :P ) care more about free software than people in North America
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Kev
It's not clear to me where cause and effect lies here.
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dwd
Kev, Yes, I know we don't have a devroom this year, but I'm hoping we'll still have the lounge space, and can use that for mini-talks and demos. That would, hopefully, persuade FOSDEM to give us a room next year again.
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Kev
Lots of people meet in Europe. Lots of devs are in Europe.
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Kev
There's certainly an argument that causation may be at play, but which way?
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Kev
I'm not arguing that there being a lounge again is a bad idea.
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dwd
I don't think in either way. I think both are effects of the appeal of the FOSDEM activity.
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Kev
But give me the choice of summit in London or of FOSDEM summit sans Peter, I'm going with the former.
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dwd
Right, but we needn't make it a choice.
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Kev
(I might even without the Peter element, because selfish convenience trumps all)
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Kev
You think we can hold two full summits within 3 weeks of each other?
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dwd
My other concern is that the only draw in London beyond XMPP is IETF week, and IETF week is slightly more expensive than FOSDEM.
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Kev
So rather than pre-empting that people won't want to London, why not wait to see what the feel of the list is?
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dwd
Kev, No, but I think we could easily enough hold face-to-face interop stuffs in Belgium, and a "proper" summit in London.
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dwd
Incidentally, I *do* think that London would be useful - we could pull along some of the IETF crowd and show them how a proper SDO works. :-)
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Kev
And that people would want to travel to both? I'm doubtful, but quite open to the idea of a mail to the list seeing what the feeling is.
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MattJ
dwd, we would need to find space in Brussels...
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Kev
MattJ: A problem for Board :D
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intosi
I'd do both ;)
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MattJ
As if they don't have enough already ;)
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dwd
Kev, Right. We need to find a space and get someone to pay for it.
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MattJ
I don't know if I'd certainly do both London and Brussels if the summit moved
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MattJ
But I'd want to
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MattJ
Someone pointed out the other day that not having a devroom does give us more opportunity for outreach really, by infiltrating communities in other devrooms
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dwd
I'm a little concerned that if we don't do FOSDEM, then nothing at all will happen at FOSDEM, and we'll lose both the chance of a devroom again *and* the lounge space.
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MattJ
Reaching folks who perhaps dismiss XMPP and wouldn't attend the devroom talks
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dwd
Oh, and no covert infiltration of other communities too.
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Kev
dwd: All that you describe is unrelated to having an event outside FOSDEM, isn't it?
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MattJ
It might (in fact let's be honest: it will) mean that fewer XMPP people attend FOSDEM
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dwd
If there's no summit, *and* no devroom, are you going to FODEM?
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dwd
FOSDEM even.
- fippo summons emil
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fippo
i think the jitsi people plan to be at fosdem
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Kev
Me? Very probably not. Although whether I'd go to both a summit in London and one in Brussels as well is also up for debate.
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MattJ
I don't think two European summits would help all that much
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MattJ
Most people would probably still attend just one
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dwd
Yes, true, we'd be competing with ourselves.
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Kev
Splitting attendance seems more unhelpful than any other aspect.
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MattJ
and probably the one that has stpeter :)
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dwd
emcho, Emil Ivov - we get two of you?
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emcho
and even that is not enough!
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Kev
No less than we deserve.
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intosi
Look what you did...
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fippo
i know simon has some plans already which depend on a summit at fosdem
- Emil Ivov has no clones anymore
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fippo
but I sure wouldn't mind spending another two days in the mountains
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Kev
BC or XMPP plans?
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fippo
BC plans
- stpeter rejoins and scrolls up
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stpeter
anyway, let me see about my travel approvals, sorry to have cause a ruckus
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fippo
stpeter: make sure you get the one for hawaii as well ;-)
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MattJ
:P
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fippo
bear/lance: have you guys heard anything about certain realtime events in europe next year?
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Lance
nope
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stpeter
heehee
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stpeter
it's easy and cheap for me to arrange rooms at Cisco or IETF, not as easy or cheap elsewhere (e.g., random hotels in Portland)
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stpeter
but I'm working on raising money, too
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stpeter
after I reimburse myself for Portland expenses, we'll have only ~$5000 in the bank
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stpeter
I'd like to have more of a cushion than that
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dwd
We'll find some cash. Easier to find some cash if we've an event to get sponsorship for, too.
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stpeter
an event or a program of some kind (see note about DNSSEC)
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stpeter
bbiaf
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dwd
Speaking of video recordings, Emil Ivov - I really liked your video about the bridge. Do you think we could run a video interview of something to stick on the XSF site?
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dwd
Or something. Not "of something".
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dwd
I meant an interview, or presentation, or something with or by you.
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Emil Ivov
dwd: would very much like that :)
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fippo
'+1
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Emil Ivov
dwd: (we are also thinking about doing recordings on the bridge! )
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dwd
Emil Ivov, Maybe you could get fippo to actually speak this time.
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fippo
dwd: we tried, but that caused technical problems
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Emil Ivov
dwd: he actually seems quite talkative to me :)
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fippo
he's telling me of COIN all the time!
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dwd
fippo, Not Muji, then?
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Emil Ivov
:)
- dwd whistles innocently.
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fippo
dwd: bad mistake!
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dwd
Anyway, children time, but we should sort something out. EVen better if the bridge can do recordings - I was going to ask about that, too.
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Emil Ivov
I am not sure what Muji is ... COIN is this thing that actually works ... you know ... just saying
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Emil Ivov
dwd: yeah we are looking into it. we definitely want that! IGive us a month or so
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Emil Ivov
dwd: will you be in Paris next week?
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ralphm
Regarding FOSDEM, they way it all started was that Edwin, Christ and I decided to request a booth at FOSDEM and represent the Jabber community. Without a summit and without a devroom. That went on for a few years until we decided to request a devroom. The summit came even later.
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Emil Ivov
ralphm: don't you find that FOSDEM's changed a bit though?
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ralphm
Sure it has.
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ralphm
FOSDEM was tiny back then.
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ralphm
I must admit that if we don't get a booth and don't do a summit, I might consider not going.
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Emil Ivov
in only that way? our first years were just incredibly exciting in terms of the dialogs and meetings we had
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Emil Ivov
the last couple of years have been much more standard expo-ish
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Emil Ivov
(I am mostly talking about the stand experience)
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Emil Ivov
there's a lot less enthusiasm from potential contributors and many more people with "how are you going to amuse me today" attitude
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ralphm
http://ralphm.net/blog/2004/02/09/jabber_fosdem
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fippo
"held in some nondescript hotel ballroom, graying men shuffling around in ill fitting suits inside photo (19)little 10 x 10 booths with banners proclaiming some feat of magic" ? :-)
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intosi
raphm: the year you didn't go, and let Christ and me solve it ;)
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ralphm
Emil Ivov: I think this mostly a function of the size of FOSDEM.
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ralphm
intosi: I remember. Damn thesis.
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Emil Ivov
ralphm: yes there's that
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Emil Ivov
ralphm: but this year: no XMPP dev room, no open communications dev room ...
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MattJ
Maybe they were worried it would get too political? :)
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ralphm
Emil Ivov: there is an IoT room
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Emil Ivov
which isn't RTC though
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MattJ
This being the year of years where open communications seem relevant
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Emil Ivov
ok at least not human to human RTC
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ralphm
All joking aside, the reason we didn't get a room for either XMPP or RTC has nothing to do with the topics or the people involved.
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MattJ
ralphm, then?
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ralphm
Every year, there are gazillion applications for devrooms, and the organisation basically has to pick and choose with the (pretty large) number of rooms they have available.
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ralphm
This year, we lucked out. Yes, nothing else.
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MattJ
Sure, but what criteria do they use if not topics?
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ralphm
I know many people in the organisation and they love having us.
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MattJ
So it's just luck, and they pick rooms from a hat?
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ralphm
Because we run everything smoothly and clean up and are friendly and all that.
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ralphm
Their ways of selecting devrooms is not actively made public nor does it need to be.
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MattJ
No need to get defensive of them :)
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ralphm
Remember this is an all-volunteer effort, and these guys are stretched unimaginably already. We should be grateful for all the years that we did have a room. Also note that we missed out once before, and we did fine.
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ralphm
MattJ: I like to.
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ralphm
MattJ: mostly because many people have the wrong idea about them
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MattJ
I am grateful, and I haven't said one word of criticism of them, or their decision
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ralphm
MattJ: I know that of you personally. I was speaking in general.
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MattJ
But you seemed to imply knowledge of their selection process, which is why I asked
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intosi
It might involve magic imps.
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intosi
For all we know.
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ralphm
I think they might regret not having any RTC this year.
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MattJ
Because I do think the lack of an open communications track anywhere is a strange omission, regardless of who made or how they made that decision
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MattJ
But it's their conference, and they certainly have the right to have whatever rooms they want :)
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fippo
ralpm: certainly so after they see the video bridge in action (-:
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fippo
would still be happy to show it in the lounge (if we have that)
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ralphm
we'll no know in 10 days
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MattJ
Let's have everyone attend FOSDEM remotely
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ralphm
we'll know
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ralphm
hah
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fippo
we just ask someone to put up some screens
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ralphm
fippo: where someone is 'us', I'm sure.
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intosi
I don't doubt that, ralphm.
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Emil Ivov
ralphm: sorry ralph got distracted. I didn't mean to imply any wrongdoing on FOSDEM's behalf. They have the right to make whatever topic choices their organisational community wants. I am not disputing this. However we are tech enthusiasts and, as individuals, we also have the right to be disappointed that our favorite event doesn't feature the topics that we care about
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Emil Ivov
and given how many of us here run on very constrainted budgets. it is perfectly legitimate that this could change our decisions to be there or not
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Emil Ivov
*constrained (duh)
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Emil Ivov
(despite the ranting we'd probably still truck most of the jitsi devs there if we get our stand/lounge again :) )