Monday, December 09, 2013
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:54:55] <dwd> http://netsecpro.spreadshirt.de/ - I've asked Steffan Winter (the creator) if he'd mind us stealing the idea. Perfect concept for FOSDEM, I suspect.
[10:55:41] <ralphm> heh
[10:56:02] <ralphm> But would you fly with one?
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[10:56:29] <Zash> Hehe
[10:58:44] <dwd> No, it's not a great t-shirt for airport security checkpoints.
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[11:09:59] <dwd> > Would you be upset if I purloined that phrase for t-shirts for the XMPP
> Standards Foundation to give away and/or sell?

On one condition: I want one of those then :-) XL!

Stefan
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[11:19:37] <Kev> I wonder if 'chat encryption' is more XMPP that 'mass encryption'
[11:21:07] <dwd> Well, "mass encryption" is a better prhase.
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[11:24:17] <Kev> It is.
[11:24:46] <ralphm> and hey, XMPP is more than chat. Tsk.
[11:25:26] <Kev> Indeed.
[11:25:42] <Kev> But 'weapons of mass encryption' is vague and not particularly related to XMPP.
[11:25:48] <Kev> So...swings and roundabouts.
[11:25:56] <dwd> Wait, there's swings?
[11:27:18] <intosi> Wheeeee!
[11:28:46] <Kev> dwd: Uhm, yes. What type of roads do /you/ drive on?
[11:29:14] <intosi> Roads? Where Dave goes, there are no roads ;)
[11:29:30] <dwd> That's true on my commute into the office.
[11:30:22] <intosi> Morning traffic was hell: major delays at the shower.
[11:30:52] <dwd> intosi, If there was actual congestion at the shower, that sounds like it might have been fun.
[11:31:10] <intosi> :)
[11:31:11] <Kev> I had major delays on the 'why on Earth did I try a jog only two days after training?'.
[11:32:44] <ralphm> Jogging. Pft. Nothing beats drumming.
[11:33:45] <Kev> I hadn't considered doing that for exercise. Might be more fun :)
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[11:35:05] <intosi> Sports: drumming.
[11:35:09] <ralphm> Indeed.
[11:35:11] <intosi> I like the sound of that.
[11:35:26] <ralphm> I think it also exercises many more different muscle areas.
[11:36:50] <dwd> So does swimming.
[11:36:57] <dwd> I wonder if you could combine the two.
[11:37:15] <ralphm> http://vimeo.com/49273882
[11:38:27] <ralphm> But don't do it if you're attached to your gear.
[11:38:59] <dwd> ralphm, Well, if you're attached to your gear, and your gear is at the bottom of a pool, you'd drown.
[11:39:13] <intosi> Best not to use your vDrums for that.
[11:39:30] <dwd> Although Sony ones might be waterproof, these days.
[11:39:33] <dwd> If Sony make them.
[11:39:39] <ralphm> dwd: amateur! There are ways to deal with that. Diving equipment has been around for quite some time now.
[11:39:46] <intosi> Also: hard to get your timing right.
[11:42:23] *dwd writes a mail to members@ suggesting they hang around in the chatroom more.
[11:47:45] <Kev> intosi: My vDrums are going nowhere near water.
[11:48:03] <dwd> You live in Wales. Water falleth from the sky.
[11:48:53] <ralphm> Kev: do they ever go outside?
[11:48:59] <Kev> ralphm: They do not.
[11:49:11] <dwd> How did you get them in the house?
[11:49:12] <Kev> ralphm: I haven't gigged in a very very long time, and if I did I would take an acoustic kit.
[11:49:25] <Kev> dwd: Are going, not have never been.
[11:49:34] <ralphm> Ah, I sometimes take them along for a gig. I think a few times played outside, even.
[11:49:59] <intosi> ralphm: not when there was the slightest chance of rain.
[11:50:04] <Kev> I've got a set of Flats that would be as convenient as vdrums for shipping around the place, and are acoustic.
[11:50:09] <dwd> Kev, You see how confusing it gets when you don't use RFC 2119?
[11:50:10] <Kev> I don't have a 'real' acoustic kit any more.
[11:50:32] <ralphm> intosi: well, once I used them at a xmas thing. Wasn't there snow? (We were under a tent)
[11:50:50] <intosi> Lemme check, I think I still have a few pictures.
[11:51:43] <intosi> Ah, I don't have pictures of that gig. You might be right.
[11:52:09] <dwd> Ah, "You might be right" == "I lack evidence you are wrong"
[11:52:19] <Kev> Oh. My vdrums are quite a lot cheaper now than they used to be. A lot a lot, actually. How upsetting.
[11:52:43] <ralphm> Have you seen the TD-30 module, though? Pretty nice!
[11:52:47] <intosi> dwd: rightr
[11:52:54] <Kev> Mine's only the TD-4 module.
[11:53:01] <intosi> I smell G.A.S....
[11:53:01] <ralphm> I have a TD-12
[11:53:03] <Kev> Although with the mesh heads instead of the rubber mats.
[11:54:14] <ralphm> intosi: well, probably a Octapad, first (http://www.roland.com/products/en/SPD-30/)
[11:55:15] <intosi> That would be great. No more overloading of thunder or whoops on the bell of your crash ;)
[11:55:25] <ralphm> Interestingly, the white ones are less expensive than the black ones.
[11:55:55] <Kev> The octopads are cute.
[11:56:02] <Kev> s/to/ta/
[11:57:01] <intosi> The cool kids pick black, the even cooler ones can get away with white.
[11:57:37] <intosi> The white one will match nicely with the mesh on your drums.
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[12:01:15] <ralphm> true, but all of the /rest/ of the kit is black
[12:03:16] <intosi> Right.
[12:03:36] <intosi> And to make this more XMPP-ish: your kit should set your user mood based on the way you drum
[12:05:23] <Kev> I still want an XMPP-based way of jamming.
[12:06:29] <ralphm> MIDI over XMPP doesn't seem like it would be hard
[12:07:02] <ralphm> Dealing with latency: delay a few bars
[12:07:25] <Kev> Doesn't 'delay a few bars' rather introduce latency, rather than deal with it? :)
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[12:07:29] <dwd> I don't know what the delay in audio/Jingle is, but having synchronized MIDI and Jingle would be amusing.
[12:07:29] <intosi> You want hard promises on latency.
[12:07:41] <dwd> intosi, "There WILL be latency. I promise".
[12:08:18] <intosi> dwd: true, and you can anticipate, as long as you have ridig limits (not being: latency will be between 0.0 and 60.0 seconds)
[12:09:26] <intosi> But still, any noticeable latency will kill all the fun in jamming.
[12:09:43] <dwd> I wonder if you could synchronize multiple audio streams, so as long as your remotes were all playing to a metronome, you could at least do a distributed performance?
[12:10:30] <ralphm> my point was that for *jamming* having sound delayed (exactly) 4 bars might make the experience fun
[12:10:47] <intosi> That could actually work.
[12:12:12] <Kev> That might work.
[12:12:12] <intosi> So you would play something, I would hear it immediately, and you'd hear my lines four bars delayed.
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[12:16:04] <Kev> Well, you'd need it delayed too, surely?
[12:16:35] <ralphm> http://www.tml.tkk.fi/Opinnot/T-111.5080/2006/FPaperit/Latency_Kleimola_final.pdf
[12:16:36] <intosi> Not by the same interval as Ralph would.
[12:16:44] <Kev> So Ralph plays something at B=1, you hear it and play over at B=5, Ralph hears your stuff over B=9 that you played when you heard B=1.
[12:17:10] <ralphm> it appears that latencies <=20ms should work reasonably well
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[12:17:51] <intosi> Kev: no point in me hearing Ralph's B=1 when he's at B=2 so that he can hear my first beat when he's at B=5
[12:17:56] <intosi> No issue in
[12:18:18] <intosi> You need to delay and distribute the audio anyway.
[12:22:11] <fippo> i've heard this music-over-webrtc usecase before...
[12:23:45] <fippo> https://github.com/atamborrino/ztream
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[14:26:20] <dwd> I wonder if it's worth pinging HTA about Google Talk.
[14:26:45] <MattJ> HTA?
[14:27:27] <dwd> Harald Alvestrand. Google, I *think*, IETF guy.
[14:27:56] <dwd> https://plus.google.com/u/0/+HaraldTveitAlvestrand/posts
[14:28:01] <dwd> Yep, Google.
[14:28:17] <ralphm> By the way, Chris Messina was mentioned before, but he left Google months ago.
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[14:37:40] <dwd> Yes, I said as much shortly after mentioning him
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[22:59:07] *** Jef has joined the room
[23:01:25] *** stpeter has left the room
[23:07:53] *** SouL shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:09:56] *** stpeter has joined the room
[23:09:57] *** stpeter has left the room
[23:10:20] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:11:16] *** Jef shows as "online"
[23:17:55] *** SouL shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:30:53] *** Jef has left the room
[23:57:07] *** SouL has left the room