XSF Discussion - 2013-12-17

Thanks bear!

not sure how to get hover to do the dns for web forwards, gladly will point it to our nameserver if that is easier

emcho: did you get a stand, too?

bear: I think we can work out the details for DNS. iteam is glad to support it.

intosi - cool - just let me know what to put as nameservers then

oh - probably same as xmpptest.com

i'll change it to ns1.jabber.org now

ok, I made xmmp.org have the same nameserves as xmpptest.com

I'll set something up for it.

bear: DNS is set up.

-- Checking SOA records of slaves ... xmmp.org: OK

Hmm, except that ns3 isn't syncing. I'll chat with Florian to fix that.

cool

We had the same issue with xmpptest.com.

cool - now xmmp.org should point to xmpp.org

It works for me.

Best thing: didn't even have to change the nginx config to make it happen.

yea, gotta love a good nginx config

good in this case being simple

So, lots of good news yesterday, then.

Oh, hadn't noticed the xmmp.

yea, set that up and then read the news from ralph and saw that the forwarded email has XMMP in it :)

bear, If you're up, want to Bloggerize the stand?

sure

shall i also mention jingle ?

Yeah, I shall have a word with Wynke on that :-D

bear, In what sense?

I'd like to know if Jitsi got a stand too

but emcho isn't responding

emcho, ICMP_ECHO_REQUEST

oh, yea misread that - i'll do ours now and another later

Two posts is better than one.

raise Emcho()

something along the lines of: The XSF is happy to annouce we will again be present at FOSDEM with the Realtime Lounge and a stand" ?

'and a stand'?

yea, i ran out of words :/

bear: some words: epic, must-see, awesome

Interactive, responsive design, standards-compliant?

bear: unique, Jingle, IoT, demos

http://www.piratepad.ca/p/VCq8kVvwUa

bear: hah, no

no?

bear: you are drafting, we are giving you words you ran out of. Seems like a great deal.

ah

one sec

Scalable. Secure. World-class. Cutting-Edge. Value-add. Blue-sky.

Am I doing this right?

oh, oh, I know: synergy, solutions

and WebRTC of course

Kev, ralphm: spot on!

If you're struggling, might I suggest we nudge Laura?

Toss in high grade encryption, too. It appears to be a popular topic.

dwd: that's a great point

Anonymous. Strong identity. Strong authentication. Dialback.

bear: Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to get all of these in :p

oh, man - the voice of reason from dave

hell no, i'm punting as we have a real wordsmith now ;)

bear: but yeah, drop the 'stand' part

the lounge is the thing

err thingy

yea, that

we do have tables, of course

but stands are what the other guys do. We're way past that :_D

:)

We did stands 10 years ago, we moved on.

Stands are so three years ago.

ok, request for help sent

Still miss our flag. Waves fist at unnamed German guy who kept it.

Flag?

intosi: ulrich?

The table cloth we used

fippo: yeah, him :)

http://photo.ik.nu/v/fosdem/fosdem_2004/jabber3.jpg.html

I can always order a flag, but as I remember, the space we will be in, is not very helpful in hanging things on walls. But I suppose a table cloth could be done, still.

ah, i remember making plan for stealing that flag :-)

How about this for the basis of a second t-shirt: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?client=ubuntu-browser&biw=1200&bih=1509&tbm=isch&tbnid=QO6_PBV7zTImmM:&imgrefurl=http://fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/detail.php%3Fid%3D449&docid=IX1zJvAWtJMX3M&imgurl=http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg&w=800&h=1120&ei=lBawUuXyGsOThQeWwYDABg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:63,s:0,i:278&iact=rc&page=2&tbnh=192&tbnw=137&start=49&ndsp=58&tx=67&ty=81

http://photo.ik.nu/v/fosdem/fosdem_2004/jabber1.jpg.html

Look at the size of that monitor...

I have one of those in the basement

ugh, I really should send it to a recycle center

I am looking at the site I ordered the flag from last time.

This one was mine, I gave it away together with the SGI that used to be attached to it.

They also do custom fatboys

That sounds like the bomb

That's very loungy.

that sounds like a great sponsor thingy

my word selection is regressing

How many colors?

Depends what's on it. What's the cost?

(the Jabber logo has 2, the XMPP logo has 5 (+ shades), Real Time logo has 2. Add 1 for text)

dwd: I don't know, that's why I need to know the number of colors. They don't list prices on the site)

I think we should probably just give up on 'Jabber' at this point :/

Kev: it shows you were not present at the summit

You think being at the summit would persuade me that we shouldn't?

Well, at the very least there was no consensus against reusing Jabber

The trademark's now owned by a company using it to refer to a competing system. I don't see how it's good to keep using it.

I don't see how that matters in practice.

"Buyer" confusion.

The Jabber name is still widely regarded to refer to what we do, and they only ones that are going to be confused are the Cisco Marketing people

I don't think that's true.

Actually the buyer confusion is very much on our side. End users particularly are still very much using the Jabber term for XMPP based IM solutions.

who will ask legal and then find out that we can do what we want with the trademark

XMPP (the protocol, not the name) actually has a reasonable amount of penetration, and if we say "You should call it Jabber", the people who want it say "Buy us a Jabber system please", and the purchasers then buy "Cisco Jabber", this is not a good thing for us.

ralphm: It's not a question of being able to do what we want with it, it's whether using it is helpful.

Kev, XMPP has penetration in terms of technologists and developers.

dwd: Yes. So the end users say "Get us a Jabber system", and procurement buy a Cisco Jabber system.

Kev, Jabber has penetration as a consumer-grade network.

and jabber has penetration in terms of CIOs

bear: I think it would help to mention IOT in the announcement as well

fippo - post that as a reply so i remember - i'm going to go find my bed and crawl into it

bear: GN.

nn

heya

emcho: hey

emcho: did you guys get a stand at FOSDEM as well?

yes got it

and a lightning talk as well

awesome

two tables

emcho: good news!

right!

seems like we'll be able to rebuild last year's RTL

If we include the right bytes, it will be LTR

or change it of course

maybe this year we could do it a bit differently actually

last year the loungy area was kind of barred by the tables

so it wasn't evident that it was free access

(or maybe that was the intention?)

so maybe this year we could have the tables at one side and the loungy area at the other

emcho: well, one of the problems is that the area is also a passthrough for people that need to use the elevator

(like weelchairs)

wheel

yeah sure, but we wouldn't block it. laste year had this: [wall][--emptyspace--][tables][lounge] what we could try is this: [wall][tables][--emptyspace--][lounge]

There's not a lot of wall usable for that. There's the exit of the lecture hall as well.

well we could experiment. we are certainly OK with last year's arrangement

we could also reverse the tables so that the XSF is seen before jitsi this time

we can also stream the xsf table to the jitsi table ,-)

Don't cross the streams.

Or was that something else?

dwd: no, that's for this.

intosi: as far as I remember, that exit should not be used during FOSDEM and we might put a sign to that effect on the inside

Rough design of my "Enemy Listening" concept to the list.

Nobody has any comments on t-shirt designs? That's got to be a first.

Lunch coma

The one I'm parodying is here: http://www.fortmissoulamuseum.org/WWII/images/posters/1986.004.439.jpg

Ooooh. That thumbnails with Gajim and the right plugins. Purr-tee!

http://pics.zash.se/531867ea.jpeg

Nice, IP address leakage

Mr Dave Cridland

Well, yes.

So, can't decide between "Encrypt you talk" and "Encrypt your speech". Maybe even "Encrypt for Freedom". Also, I don't like "Don't use silos", I think it's dull.

"Secure your server", maybe?

Secure your server would be better.

Or Encrypt your s2s

or comms instead of s2s

Secure Your Server sounds pretty good

How about that, then?

"I have seen the enemy, and he is us. Secure your server!"

"Winter is coming!"

"Encrypt your jabber" would bring out the original meaning of the word :-D

Usually, any t-shirt discussions spawn an endless and depressing bikeshed discussion. This year, everyone seems scarily quiet.

The calm before the storm?

I blame it on the US being asleep still

Ah, they may all be in the STOX interim, I suppose.

I want a better word than "encrypt". I'm tempted to use "Encipher", just for the period.

What about "Keep that Jabber secret"?

stpeter: you're in a loop ;-)

What sort of numbers of t-shirts do we want this year, BTW?

Integer numbers.

Sounds rational.

Naturally

Get real!

Considering we don't have any actual number to discuss yet, doesn't that make it imaginary?

I can't remember how many we got last time I rodered them, which doesn't help.

This is the most productive room I'm in

dwd: that's making things complex

stpeter: foundation bug is already noted in http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/User:Fippo#XEP_0176

dwd: what about "Jabber in code"?

quick poll: you're allowed to send an <iq/> to a bare jid (even a jingle session-initiate), right?

yes

Sure

but a server must reply on the account's behalf

Right

it probably won't do what you want, but you can

right. or a stox pstn gateway

But if you want servers to handle jingle for you, it's fine.

ah, we'll have to discuss that on the stox list

fippo: thanks -- it would indeed be good to fix the bugs in those specs

stpeter: yeah... if I only had more time :-/

fippo: yeah, I hear you!

Agendawriting time for Council - fippo, are your updated specs ready to go in the inbox?

Kev: I received your email, will reply shortly

stpeter: No rush.

kev: yeah, i think it's just the html in the inbox that needs to be updated

stpeter: heh, I managed to do a thourough review of stox-media in the last 90 minutes at least :-)

:P

brb

fippo: Do you have home-rendered versions anywhere?

If it's already checked into Git. Saves Peter publishing again.

kev: inbox doesn't seem to contain any .html -- https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/tree/gh-pages/extensions has html, too

https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-sources.html and https://github.com/fippo/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-grouping.html ?

yes

Urgh.

http://fippo.github.io/customxeps/extensions/jingle-sources.html

https://raw.github.com/fippo/customxeps/gh-pages/extensions/jingle-sources.html doesn't work :(

http://fippo.github.io/customxeps/extensions/jingle-grouping.html

Ah, ta.

Lance: Nothing to do with peptzo, right?

No, I haven't had time to write a XEP-80 update proposal

still not sure which approach is better

Lance: Update with what?

Adding current time zone offset

Ah

I had a proposal to just add that in PEP, but there were comments that it would fit better in GeoLoc

I think it does fit there, but logistically it might be easier to split it off.

bear: can you bring the sign from http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyet-photos/10370068076/ along, too? :-)

http://www.ucstrategies.com/unified-communications-expert-views/business-to-business-uc-collaboration.aspx -- *sigh*

"For example, company A, which requires XMPP over TLS connection, can still connect to company B which uses XMPP over TCP with dial-back."

that annoys me enough to register even

do we have numbers and cost info from the last tshirt purchase? I'm asking if &yet can help with some of this and they will need a ballpark figure

bear: I have that information, but it's at the Cisco office and I'm working at home today

no worries - i'm just gathering data

hmm

reading http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-bylaws/ Section 8.3 (on "Work Teams"), I conclude that we need to actually establish the UPnP Forum liaison team, with a charter and all, so we might be putting the cart before the horse to ask for volunteers at this time

I'll post to the members@ list about it

stpeter: did we do that for the jingle work team?

(even though that ended up in a different way :-)

not really, so that team is null and void! ;-)

poor dwd

message sent to the list

the upnp guys are in portland?

(well, depending on the definition of "guys" obviously)

Was UPnP invented in the 90s by any chance?

The one that's based on SOAP over HTTP over UDP?

Yes

well, they are all over the world -- I don't think they are "in" any specific place

not just the world, universal!

heehee

but yeah, a consortium

I know people from Philips working on it, while I was there in 2003

maybe the XSF could be located at the geographic center of all its members -- probably somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean :-)

:)

Or under

some would say we're all wet, so sure

good old, design by committee, everyone getting their exceptions and/or IP in

yep, most SDOs are like that, it seems

yay, got down below 9000 messages in my inbox ;-)

something to do over the holidays...

stpeter: Weren't you at inbox zero at some point?

at some point

it happens once in a while

and then it explodes

do mailinglist posts count?

ralphm: I don't differentiate

stpeter: oh

Mailing list posts are auto-labelled and don't go in my inbox. I have most emails auto-labelled.

BTW it seems that Joe Hildebrand might be at FOSDEM for sure, so we could still hold meetings at the Cisco offices even if I'm not able to travel

woot

go hildjj

aha

should know soon if that will pan out

"might .. for sure" :D

he said so yesterday, but I want to verify

"60% of the time, it works every time"

but yes, a poorly constructed sentence, that was

I have 971 unread messages on standards@

maybe I should give up on those

some go back to 2010 :-D

:/

"Mark as read" is your friend

getting info on fosdem is great news - i've been trying to keep the two events raised at work so they know what is coming

I'd love to see a bunch of &yetis

with two events it would be tough to have a large showing, but each event has it's own sales/tech reasons - i'm gathering data for both to make the pitch

thanks, bear!

bbiaw