XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2014-01-08


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  25. kevin. yay ! thats what happen when you open your email after a long time and suddenly reads this - [Members] XMPP Summit XV - Brussels
  26. SouL oh
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  28. kevin. SouL: oh you here too
  29. intosi has joined
  30. SouL Yes, hello kevin. =)
  31. SouL But I'm not a member x)
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  33. Alex SouL: we can change this ;-)
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  41. SouL Yeah.. :)
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  49. ralphm Does anyone here have reasonable pictures of the area we've done the realtime lounge in last year?
  50. fippo https://jitsi.org/wiki/pub/sip-communicator/screenshots/videobridge.png is a little small, eh?
  51. ralphm yeah, I'd like some overview pictures if possible
  52. ralphm to see how we can decorate the place
  53. ralphm E.g. I'd love to have some stuff on walls, but if I remember correctly, one wall is plastered and cannot be used to hang stuff on.
  54. ralphm The other walls are mostly brick with a rough texture.
  55. ralphm So we'd need some projectors at the very least.
  56. intosi We managed to damage the paint on one wall the first year we resided in the K building.
  57. intosi (with ducttape)
  58. ralphm shhht
  59. Kev has joined
  60. intosi Looks like I only have pictures of the important stuff (Aux Pavés, snow, hoodie)
  61. ralphm :-D
  62. fippo ralph: yana gave me https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.10151277769426645&type=1 and poked the guys who made those if they have more
  63. fippo maybe simon has some more
  64. ralphm ah, cool
  65. ralphm hmm, pesky fluorescent tubes will interfere with the Hue bulbs I want to bring.
  66. ralphm adds stepladder to http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_Checklist
  67. intosi :D
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  70. ralphm Hmm, the Board and Council meetings are not in the XSF calendars?
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  79. ralphm Board meeting in roughly 25 min. (after Council)
  80. jabberjocke has joined
  81. Laura has joined
  82. stpeter time for the board meeting?
  83. Kev I believe so. Council is done and just making Tolkien jokes at the moment :)
  84. ralphm Go chair
  85. ralphm we're missing two people still
  86. Kev You do have quorum, though.
  87. ralphm indeed
  88. Kev Do you have an agenda? I would be inclined to start and let people catch up if they turn up.
  89. dwd waves
  90. dwd I remembered to switch tabs.
  91. Kev Sounds exhausting.
  92. ralphm
  93. Kev Oh, very droll.
  94. dwd So, who's chairing?
  95. ralphm I'm ok with that.
  96. Kev I'm happy to stand in, if that gets it done.
  97. ralphm bang gavel
  98. dwd By coincidence, I happen to have a new chair (on loan, actually). It's very adjustable.
  99. ralphm Ok, people. Agenda items?
  100. ralphm I have FOSDEM
  101. Kev GSoC
  102. dwd FOSDEM, XEP Editor.
  103. dwd Summit.
  104. ralphm Do we need to discuss liasons any further?
  105. Kev Not at the moment, it's waiting on a charter, I think.
  106. ralphm Laura: do you have any items?
  107. dwd We need to figure out the charter, and I had comments relating to copyright issues on that.
  108. Laura Only a quick update on the XMPP website
  109. ralphm dwd: so next meeting on that?
  110. ralphm Laura: awesome.
  111. dwd ralphm, Good for me.
  112. ralphm With 0. Welcome+Agenda out of the way,
  113. ralphm 1) Website
  114. ralphm Laura: go
  115. Laura Right, I am working on this with Simon.
  116. dwd ralphm, I'll take minutes if you like?
  117. Laura We paused over Xmas but it is full steam ahead now
  118. ralphm dwd: splendid
  119. Laura The latest is we have started mapping the aueince, what we need from the site etc
  120. Laura Copy comes next
  121. Laura We hope to share with you in a few weeks
  122. Laura Share the progress and plans
  123. Laura (only brief update)
  124. ralphm Laura: a weeks = Summit?
  125. Laura Oooh yes!
  126. Laura Great idea
  127. Laura Love a deadline
  128. ralphm That's settled then :-D
  129. ralphm Laura: that's it?
  130. stpeter Laura: thanks to you and Simon for working on this!
  131. dwd Laura, Is there a site we can look at at all yet?
  132. Laura For now, yes
  133. Laura Not yet sorry
  134. Laura I am a planner first, do-er second
  135. ralphm good
  136. ralphm Moving on then.
  137. dwd No problem. I appreciate that having a coherent plan would be good.
  138. ralphm 2) XEP Editor Team
  139. stpeter ralphm: it seems that folks like this idea, so IMHO the next step is to propose a charter
  140. ralphm stpeter mentioned in the Council meeting that he's going to work on a charter?
  141. stpeter heh
  142. stpeter yes
  143. stpeter haven't gotten to that yet, but I can probably do so by the end of this week
  144. ralphm although not strictly required, how are we on making pull requests and such easier?
  145. ralphm I wanted to ask bear obviously.
  146. stpeter I know that bear was working on the github.com mirror, although we could also make it easier for core contributors to make pull requests directly on the repo at xmpp.org
  147. Kev ralphm: I think the Editor team reduces the need for this, actually. As the team can all have access to the existing repo, and the barrier to entry is lowered.
  148. Kev Not that this means we shouldn't change the model.
  149. stpeter we have added several XEP authors of late
  150. stpeter and could add more
  151. dwd My impression is that the members are in favour of the work team, by the way - I assume that the Board agrees in principle that we should go ahead?
  152. ralphm I am
  153. dwd (That is, subject to a charter etc)
  154. dwd I am also.
  155. Kev As non-Board-but-Council, I am.
  156. dwd Laura?
  157. ralphm I'm not sure about our voting process. Do we (like council) vote on-list in absence?
  158. Laura I am
  159. dwd ralphm, It's not mentioned, IIRC.
  160. Kev ralphm: I /think/ (from memory) that Board moves by majority, but I'm not sure.
  161. dwd Kev, Yes, we certainly carry on simple majority. QUestion is whether we have to vote in a meeting.
  162. Laura I;m not sure either
  163. ralphm Right. Might still be useful to have remaining opinions to be known, if so desired.
  164. stpeter nods
  165. dwd But we can vote to push on, certainly.
  166. Kev dwd: I think you get to choose your own definition of what a meeting is :)
  167. ralphm So I motion we let the minutes request remaining votes.
  168. dwd Kev, This is also true.
  169. ralphm Kev: that's my understanding
  170. dwd ralphm, I disagree - we can vote again given a charter, but it'd be nice to give a clear signal that we're in favour subject to the details.
  171. dwd That is, we're in favour of Peter working on a charter, etc.
  172. Kev dwd: I think that's already been given, and the minutes will presumably show it :)
  173. stpeter I saw no indications to the contrary, so IMHO it's full speed ahead :-)
  174. ralphm right
  175. ralphm doing so
  176. dwd Kev, Yeah, because I'm writing them.
  177. ralphm 3) GSoC
  178. Kev Does anyone know how Bear's getting along with gathering project ideas from people?
  179. Laura I don't
  180. ralphm nope
  181. Kev He's not approached Swift yet, and I didn't realise we only had a couple of weeks until application until Joachim asked on-list.
  182. Kev We're already running really quite late.
  183. ralphm What's the deadline again?
  184. dwd 2/2/2014
  185. dwd IIRC
  186. Kev 2nd Feb for everything to be ready and submitted, Joachim said. I've not verified.
  187. ralphm so for us that means "before the summit"
  188. Kev Long before the summit. We should really have ideas mostly there by now, and getting polished.
  189. dwd Or at, I suppose. Discussing GSoC at the summit was mentioned.
  190. ralphm dwd: that seems awefully late
  191. dwd Yes, it is. We'd have to literally do it at the summit.
  192. ralphm I'm also wondering what's there to discuss at that point
  193. MattJ and summits always reach such consensus about everything they discuss :)
  194. Kev ralphm: Not a voting item, but I was hoping for an update of progress.
  195. ralphm Kev: right
  196. bear has joined
  197. Kev We do have a couple of ideas up at http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summer_of_Code_2014
  198. ralphm notes
  199. ralphm bear drops in
  200. dwd Who's actually been tasked with GSoC work this time around?
  201. Kev But I don't think projects have been chased yet, and this needs to be done imminently.
  202. Kev dwd: Bear appointed himself :)
  203. bear if projects line up with mentors, yes I will do all the admin stuff
  204. Kev bear: The admin stuff includes getting projects and mentors sorted!
  205. bear then I shall get busy
  206. ralphm Kev, bear: can you guys exchange experience OOB?
  207. Kev I don't have anything else for in-meeting.
  208. ralphm Right. Thanks for the agenda item.
  209. ralphm 4) XMPP Summit
  210. ralphm So, dwd and I basically decided definitively that we are having it on 30/31 Jan
  211. ralphm Things to be sorted out:
  212. stpeter +1
  213. Laura Thanks goodness.
  214. Kev (And my train is booked, so thanks)
  215. ralphm a) venue
  216. ralphm b) hotel
  217. dwd To be fair, this had been decided some time ago - we merely announced it.
  218. ralphm dwd: well, there was uncertainty that we cleared
  219. Laura I need to add the Surevine people names to the hotel list (just has them confirmed)
  220. ralphm Regarding a). stpeter, can you tell me if we can hold it in Diegem, or should I ask Jérome and/or hildjj on this?
  221. stpeter we can have the meeting at the Cisco office in Diegem, or at least I am 99% sure, I need to verify room availability with the folks there but I imagine it should be fine
  222. ralphm ok, that's great
  223. stpeter hildjj will be there for sure
  224. ralphm how has catering and such been arranged for before?
  225. dwd I see we're getting Will - we'll have to arrange an escelator.
  226. stpeter ralphm: I've done that directly with the catering folks there, it's a subcontractor to Cisco whose name I don't remember
  227. ralphm (For reference: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15)
  228. ralphm stpeter: let's discuss OOB how to arrange that for this year
  229. stpeter one year we also ordered out for some pizza to keep the developers happy ;-)
  230. dwd Pizza is good.
  231. ralphm agreed
  232. Laura Agreed
  233. Laura Not just for developers
  234. ralphm heh
  235. ralphm ok.
  236. ralphm b) hotel
  237. stpeter the catering people like to be paid cash (or require that) so in some years past I've needed to stop by on the way to the airport after accumulating enough euros over the weekend ;-)
  238. dwd We have discussed with Florian about his bargaining the hotels; I suspect he's somewhat busy, though.
  239. ralphm b)
  240. dwd Florian has agreed to do it; we could also call Aloft and ask them for a price. (By "we" I'm thinking Ralph, given they're Dutch-speakers)
  241. Lloyd has left
  242. ralphm I'll ping him as soon as I see him online. Otherwise we'll have to take it back.
  243. ralphm dwd: right, I thought so
  244. dwd We could also use intosi's natural charm.
  245. ralphm having the people needing a room is good
  246. ralphm did we assume double occupancy last year?
  247. dwd There's quite a few people asking for a hotel room, so we've got some bargaining power.
  248. dwd I don't think we assumed it - we got prices for both.
  249. Kev ralphm: I imagine people who aren't self-sponsored will be mostly single occupancy.
  250. ralphm sure, but it matters for getting a block, or doesn't it?
  251. dwd We could find out about room shares, if you like. Assume single occupancy first, though.
  252. ralphm indeed
  253. Kev Or would note on the wiki page, as everyone with an H presumably is asking for a room of their own.
  254. Laura Single occupancy = thumbs up
  255. ralphm I've looked for prices at booking.com
  256. ralphm they are sharp
  257. Kev How bad?
  258. ralphm I mean they have good prices
  259. Kev Ah.
  260. Kev Yay :)
  261. ralphm € 482 standard room
  262. ralphm without breakfast
  263. Laura I might have to run guys, sorry
  264. Laura Train to catch
  265. ralphm what no!
  266. ralphm Laura: do you want bean bags?
  267. stpeter I need to go soon too
  268. ralphm Laura: and what do you want on them?
  269. dwd Laura, Wait! ARe you running or taking a train? I'm so confused!
  270. Kev ralphm: FWIW, when I put an H on the wiki, that was assuming checkin Wed, checkout Sun.
  271. Laura Running to train
  272. Laura and bean bags?
  273. ralphm yes
  274. ralphm 140x180cm
  275. Laura For the summit?
  276. ralphm printed
  277. dwd Laura, Do we want to spend some money on beanbags?
  278. ralphm for FOSDEM
  279. Laura Yes
  280. ralphm what to put on them?
  281. Laura What about the ideas that got bounced around for the t-shirts?
  282. dwd We can figure that out on the list.
  283. dwd Laura, I'm trying to find printers.
  284. Laura Something cooler than just a logo
  285. dwd Laura, Who are cheap.
  286. Laura I can help with printers
  287. dwd Laura, Ah, ace.
  288. ralphm For beanbags: Jabber logo, XMPP logo, Realtime theme are options.
  289. dwd We could do one of each, if you fancy it.
  290. Laura I will send a message tomorrow and pick this up?
  291. dwd As in one of Jabber and XMPP.
  292. ralphm Good point!
  293. Laura I *really* have to go!
  294. ralphm Laura: thanks!
  295. Laura Bye!
  296. dwd Laura, Go hcen from this place unto a place of trains.
  297. Laura has left
  298. ralphm Assuming bear is still lurking over breakfast, let's go on?
  299. dwd Quorum only counts for opening the meeting, I think.
  300. bear :)
  301. ralphm heh
  302. ralphm Ok
  303. ralphm 5) FOSDEM
  304. ralphm So, the bean bags are a thing now
  305. ralphm I'm thinking of ordering three of them.
  306. stpeter interestingly bear just sent a message to the members@ list :-)
  307. ralphm they are €170+21% per
  308. dwd wonders - if they have beanbags, what are they now?
  309. bear I figured beanbag discussions allowed me to multi-task a bit
  310. stpeter I am with Laura -- I need to drive to the Cisco office for some meeting there
  311. Kev (Aside: I've re-joined the gsoc@, we might want gsoc interested people to discuss stuff there).
  312. ralphm stpeter: thanks!
  313. stpeter bbl
  314. stpeter has left
  315. ralphm I'll just make a design and post it to the list
  316. dwd We still need projectors, don't we?
  317. ralphm dwd: we do
  318. ralphm I was hoping those could be obtained at Cisco as well
  319. ralphm I think we did that in previous years
  320. emcho has left
  321. dwd Right, we should probably touch base with hildjj about that.
  322. ralphm ah yes, one of those other domains I can't connect to right now :-)
  323. ralphm http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_Checklist
  324. ralphm lists some other things we need
  325. ralphm I'd be happy to ride to Ikea with Edwin for said storage containers
  326. ralphm and other things that need to be bought
  327. dwd Ah, the Legendary Ikea Diegem Trips.
  328. bear i would consider it a failed summit if I didn't ride in a car with ralph to ikea
  329. ralphm Except that we intend to arrive on Wednesday, so maybe we can do it on that day this year.
  330. dwd You missed the trip I did with Florian driving in the snow.
  331. ralphm bear: hm
  332. dwd Florian driving is a terrifying thing at the best of times.
  333. ralphm I've also secured some Philips Hue bulbs that I intend to hang down from the ceiling
  334. ralphm Possibly in these: http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/50175771/
  335. ralphm They are zigbee controlled via a hub that has an HTTP-based API.
  336. ralphm (which I want to tie in with XMPP obviously, as one of the IoT demos)
  337. dwd Right.
  338. ralphm Given their function, that seems loungy, too
  339. dwd Yes, indeed.
  340. ralphm Ok, anything else?
  341. ralphm We started recruiting for demos
  342. ralphm so let's push some more on that
  343. dwd XSF Dinner.
  344. dwd Again, Florian said he'd arrange that. We should probably mount a round-the-clock nagging watch on him.
  345. ralphm but also sponsoring
  346. ralphm I don't expect him to arrange that
  347. dwd Yes, he said he couldn't do the sponsoring.
  348. dwd I imagine I can do some of that. I've actually had one offer already.
  349. ralphm so it'd be great if one of you (hello minute-readers, too) could pick that up
  350. Tobias has joined
  351. dwd OK, I'm done, at least for now.
  352. ralphm goo
  353. ralphm d
  354. ralphm 6) AOB?
  355. ralphm bear, dwd?
  356. dwd Nope, I'm all meetinged out.
  357. ralphm 7) Date of next
  358. ralphm +1W
  359. bear +1 to next week
  360. ralphm 8) Thanks
  361. dwd Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel.
  362. ralphm bangs gavel
  363. bear sets his calendar alarm for the new year
  364. ralphm oh about that, could someone update the ICS files?
  365. ralphm including those for council?
  366. dwd Tobias, ?
  367. Tobias sure
  368. ralphm And put the summit in there as well, while you're at it.
  369. ralphm Tobias: thanks!
  370. Tobias putting the dates in or rebuilding the ics?
  371. ralphm I'm not sure I understand the difference.
  372. ralphm the end result would be that the xsf.ics one has the summit in there :-D
  373. Tobias okay
  374. Tobias if you can tell me the UTC dates for those
  375. ralphm oh and the summit one too
  376. dwd ralphm, An excellent restraint on micromanaging there.
  377. dwd Tobias, "Make it so."
  378. ralphm Tobias: whole day events, no time zone required
  379. ralphm the dates are 2014-01-30 and -31
  380. bear you can probably find last year's entries and cut-n-paste with appropriate edits
  381. dwd ralphm, Except they're actually 1000-1700 or so, +0100, rather than all-day events, surely?
  382. ralphm +0100 is ok
  383. Tobias board meeting is next week after council?
  384. bear yes
  385. ralphm Tobias: yes
  386. Tobias k
  387. ralphm 16:30 UTC
  388. dwd I'm sending out minutes subtley marked as draft now, so if there are mistakes I'll pretend they were draft all along, and otherwise we'll let them stand.
  389. bear :)
  390. Kev I've edited the GSoC page to remove some of the invalid ideas, BTW.
  391. Kev (Documentation projects are not allowed)
  392. Tobias dwd, both thursday and friday?
  393. Tobias the summit
  394. bear thanks kev
  395. dwd Tobias, Yes.
  396. Tobias k
  397. bear i've also requested from the mail moderator to join gsoc@
  398. Kev dwd: Kev wasn't speaking as Swift, just as past GSoC admin, and the 'we' in question was certainly the XSF, not Swift.
  399. Kev Although the not being chased for ideas was as Swift :)
  400. dwd Kev, Ah, in that case I misunderstood.
  401. dwd Kev, OK, partially misunderstood.
  402. Kev Swift doesn't have ideas up yet, the XSF does.
  403. Kev Although fewer than it did a few minutes ago, after my cull.
  404. ralphm Kev: we need XEP-0317 support
  405. Kev Possibly.
  406. Kev Or 258, slightly abused.
  407. ralphm but only /slightly/
  408. jabberjocke where do i join gsoc@ maillist?
  409. bear http://mail.jabber.org/listinfo/gsoc
  410. bear bah
  411. bear http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/gsoc
  412. ralphm archived?
  413. ralphm stpeter cleared up some lists a bit ago
  414. bear hmm, good question
  415. ralphm the archive is still there
  416. ralphm so I think this is the case
  417. Tobias so..events are in the calendar
  418. jabberjocke bear: could http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo be updated with the gsoc referens
  419. bear i'll email peter about that now
  420. ralphm jabberjocke: that's all automatic in mailman. The point is that for mailman, the lists doesn't currently exist.
  421. ralphm Pipermail (the archive frontend) does still have the archive
  422. jabberjocke aah
  423. ralphm so the list just needs recreating with new subscribers and such
  424. bear still, someone with mailman privs needs to flip the bit
  425. ralphm yeah, but I hope others than stpeter could do that
  426. ralphm like maybe intosi
  427. bear wanders off to find food
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  447. dwd XSF DInner - Saturday night?
  448. dwd (Caught Florian, BTW, chased him on Hotel, he'll drop Aloft a note tonight)
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  453. Kev Saturday night sounds reasonable to me.
  454. ralphm dwd: nice. wfm
  455. Kev Usual place?
  456. dwd Florian's Babysitter's.
  457. ralphm hehe
  458. dwd I don't actually remember the name of the place, I only remember that the blonde waitress, who's the wife of the chef, was Florian's babysitter.
  459. dwd We must absolutely not remind him of this fact at every opportunity.
  460. ralphm of course not. it would be cruel
  461. dwd And we must never be cruel to Florian.
  462. jabberjocke so is checkin on the 30th and checkout on 3rd the default choice the (H) in the wiki http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15#Participants
  463. Kev I'll be checking in on the 29th and checking out on the 2nd.
  464. SouL has left
  465. dwd I think I stipulated a default. But the idea behind that isn't that we'll book a room, anyway, it's so we can get a block of rooms - we'll just need to ensure we have a minimum actually booked.
  466. Kev You did?
  467. Kev It's not immediately obvious to me on the page.
  468. dwd In the mail, rather than on the page.
  469. Kev What was the default?
  470. dwd I can't remember. I suspect I'd have said in for Wednesday night, out for Monday morning.
  471. Kev I would have thought quite a lot of people would be in Wednesday, out Sunday.
  472. Kev Although I'd expect long-haulers to be out Monday.
  473. Kev I think, FWIW, that being a sponsor of hardware should probably be taken on the same sort of basis as a donation of cash.
  474. Kev I don't know what size hardware donation you're talking about, but would we put a logo on every page of the site for an equivalent cash donation?
  475. Kev What about the donation Peter's just arranged?
  476. Kev (@dwd)
  477. dwd The ISoc gift specifically didn't ask for anything. The problem is that getting blanket donations is hard, whereas getting specific donations is comparatively easier - sponsors like to be associated with a specific benefit that aligns with them, or simply a benefit that is seen as generally nice.
  478. Kev Right.
  479. Kev But a logo on every page of the site is a hell of a sponsor benefit.
  480. dwd Yeah, I'm not mad keen on a logo. Just a line of fine text in the footer.
  481. Kev Do we value sponsors of hardware significantly above other sponsors?
  482. Kev We have a footnote in text of sponsors already.
  483. Kev So if the hardware comes to the appropriate magnitude to reach whatever level of sponsorship that is, I think it's fine.
  484. fippo has there been a blog entry about the isoc gift btw?
  485. dwd Right, we do. I'm thinking of calling out what they sponsored (in particular, I'm thinking we should call attention to the hosting too).
  486. dwd fippo, Pass. I don't remember one.
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