XSF Discussion - 2014-01-08

yay ! thats what happen when you open your email after a long time and suddenly reads this - [Members] XMPP Summit XV - Brussels

oh

SouL: oh you here too

Yes, hello kevin. =)

But I'm not a member x)

SouL: we can change this ;-)

Yeah.. :)

Does anyone here have reasonable pictures of the area we've done the realtime lounge in last year?

https://jitsi.org/wiki/pub/sip-communicator/screenshots/videobridge.png is a little small, eh?

yeah, I'd like some overview pictures if possible

to see how we can decorate the place

E.g. I'd love to have some stuff on walls, but if I remember correctly, one wall is plastered and cannot be used to hang stuff on.

The other walls are mostly brick with a rough texture.

So we'd need some projectors at the very least.

We managed to damage the paint on one wall the first year we resided in the K building.

(with ducttape)

shhht

Looks like I only have pictures of the important stuff (Aux Pavés, snow, hoodie)

:-D

ralph: yana gave me https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.10151277769426645&type=1 and poked the guys who made those if they have more

maybe simon has some more

ah, cool

hmm, pesky fluorescent tubes will interfere with the Hue bulbs I want to bring.

:D

Hmm, the Board and Council meetings are not in the XSF calendars?

Board meeting in roughly 25 min. (after Council)

time for the board meeting?

I believe so. Council is done and just making Tolkien jokes at the moment :)

Go chair

we're missing two people still

You do have quorum, though.

indeed

Do you have an agenda? I would be inclined to start and let people catch up if they turn up.

I remembered to switch tabs.

Sounds exhausting.

⚂

Oh, very droll.

So, who's chairing?

I'm ok with that.

I'm happy to stand in, if that gets it done.

By coincidence, I happen to have a new chair (on loan, actually). It's very adjustable.

Ok, people. Agenda items?

I have FOSDEM

GSoC

FOSDEM, XEP Editor.

Summit.

Do we need to discuss liasons any further?

Not at the moment, it's waiting on a charter, I think.

Laura: do you have any items?

We need to figure out the charter, and I had comments relating to copyright issues on that.

Only a quick update on the XMPP website

dwd: so next meeting on that?

Laura: awesome.

ralphm, Good for me.

With 0. Welcome+Agenda out of the way,

1) Website

Laura: go

Right, I am working on this with Simon.

ralphm, I'll take minutes if you like?

We paused over Xmas but it is full steam ahead now

dwd: splendid

The latest is we have started mapping the aueince, what we need from the site etc

Copy comes next

We hope to share with you in a few weeks

Share the progress and plans

(only brief update)

Laura: a weeks = Summit?

Oooh yes!

Great idea

Love a deadline

That's settled then :-D

Laura: that's it?

Laura: thanks to you and Simon for working on this!

Laura, Is there a site we can look at at all yet?

For now, yes

Not yet sorry

I am a planner first, do-er second

good

Moving on then.

No problem. I appreciate that having a coherent plan would be good.

2) XEP Editor Team

ralphm: it seems that folks like this idea, so IMHO the next step is to propose a charter

stpeter mentioned in the Council meeting that he's going to work on a charter?

heh

yes

haven't gotten to that yet, but I can probably do so by the end of this week

although not strictly required, how are we on making pull requests and such easier?

I wanted to ask bear obviously.

I know that bear was working on the github.com mirror, although we could also make it easier for core contributors to make pull requests directly on the repo at xmpp.org

ralphm: I think the Editor team reduces the need for this, actually. As the team can all have access to the existing repo, and the barrier to entry is lowered.

Not that this means we shouldn't change the model.

we have added several XEP authors of late

and could add more

My impression is that the members are in favour of the work team, by the way - I assume that the Board agrees in principle that we should go ahead?

I am

(That is, subject to a charter etc)

I am also.

As non-Board-but-Council, I am.

Laura?

I'm not sure about our voting process. Do we (like council) vote on-list in absence?

I am

ralphm, It's not mentioned, IIRC.

ralphm: I /think/ (from memory) that Board moves by majority, but I'm not sure.

Kev, Yes, we certainly carry on simple majority. QUestion is whether we have to vote in a meeting.

I;m not sure either

Right. Might still be useful to have remaining opinions to be known, if so desired.

But we can vote to push on, certainly.

dwd: I think you get to choose your own definition of what a meeting is :)

So I motion we let the minutes request remaining votes.

Kev, This is also true.

Kev: that's my understanding

ralphm, I disagree - we can vote again given a charter, but it'd be nice to give a clear signal that we're in favour subject to the details.

That is, we're in favour of Peter working on a charter, etc.

dwd: I think that's already been given, and the minutes will presumably show it :)

I saw no indications to the contrary, so IMHO it's full speed ahead :-)

right

doing so

Kev, Yeah, because I'm writing them.

3) GSoC

Does anyone know how Bear's getting along with gathering project ideas from people?

I don't

nope

He's not approached Swift yet, and I didn't realise we only had a couple of weeks until application until Joachim asked on-list.

We're already running really quite late.

What's the deadline again?

2/2/2014

IIRC

2nd Feb for everything to be ready and submitted, Joachim said. I've not verified.

so for us that means "before the summit"

Long before the summit. We should really have ideas mostly there by now, and getting polished.

Or at, I suppose. Discussing GSoC at the summit was mentioned.

dwd: that seems awefully late

Yes, it is. We'd have to literally do it at the summit.

I'm also wondering what's there to discuss at that point

and summits always reach such consensus about everything they discuss :)

ralphm: Not a voting item, but I was hoping for an update of progress.

Kev: right

We do have a couple of ideas up at http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summer_of_Code_2014

notes

bear drops in

Who's actually been tasked with GSoC work this time around?

But I don't think projects have been chased yet, and this needs to be done imminently.

dwd: Bear appointed himself :)

if projects line up with mentors, yes I will do all the admin stuff

bear: The admin stuff includes getting projects and mentors sorted!

then I shall get busy

Kev, bear: can you guys exchange experience OOB?

I don't have anything else for in-meeting.

Right. Thanks for the agenda item.

4) XMPP Summit

So, dwd and I basically decided definitively that we are having it on 30/31 Jan

Things to be sorted out:

+1

Thanks goodness.

(And my train is booked, so thanks)

a) venue

b) hotel

To be fair, this had been decided some time ago - we merely announced it.

dwd: well, there was uncertainty that we cleared

I need to add the Surevine people names to the hotel list (just has them confirmed)

Regarding a). stpeter, can you tell me if we can hold it in Diegem, or should I ask Jérome and/or hildjj on this?

we can have the meeting at the Cisco office in Diegem, or at least I am 99% sure, I need to verify room availability with the folks there but I imagine it should be fine

ok, that's great

hildjj will be there for sure

how has catering and such been arranged for before?

I see we're getting Will - we'll have to arrange an escelator.

ralphm: I've done that directly with the catering folks there, it's a subcontractor to Cisco whose name I don't remember

(For reference: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15)

stpeter: let's discuss OOB how to arrange that for this year

one year we also ordered out for some pizza to keep the developers happy ;-)

Pizza is good.

agreed

Agreed

Not just for developers

heh

ok.

b) hotel

the catering people like to be paid cash (or require that) so in some years past I've needed to stop by on the way to the airport after accumulating enough euros over the weekend ;-)

We have discussed with Florian about his bargaining the hotels; I suspect he's somewhat busy, though.

b)

Florian has agreed to do it; we could also call Aloft and ask them for a price. (By "we" I'm thinking Ralph, given they're Dutch-speakers)

I'll ping him as soon as I see him online. Otherwise we'll have to take it back.

dwd: right, I thought so

We could also use intosi's natural charm.

having the people needing a room is good

did we assume double occupancy last year?

There's quite a few people asking for a hotel room, so we've got some bargaining power.

I don't think we assumed it - we got prices for both.

ralphm: I imagine people who aren't self-sponsored will be mostly single occupancy.

sure, but it matters for getting a block, or doesn't it?

We could find out about room shares, if you like. Assume single occupancy first, though.

indeed

Or would note on the wiki page, as everyone with an H presumably is asking for a room of their own.

Single occupancy = thumbs up

I've looked for prices at booking.com

they are sharp

How bad?

I mean they have good prices

Ah.

Yay :)

€ 482 standard room

without breakfast

I might have to run guys, sorry

Train to catch

what no!

Laura: do you want bean bags?

I need to go soon too

Laura: and what do you want on them?

Laura, Wait! ARe you running or taking a train? I'm so confused!

ralphm: FWIW, when I put an H on the wiki, that was assuming checkin Wed, checkout Sun.

Running to train

and bean bags?

yes

140x180cm

For the summit?

printed

Laura, Do we want to spend some money on beanbags?

for FOSDEM

Yes

what to put on them?

What about the ideas that got bounced around for the t-shirts?

We can figure that out on the list.

Laura, I'm trying to find printers.

Something cooler than just a logo

Laura, Who are cheap.

I can help with printers

Laura, Ah, ace.

For beanbags: Jabber logo, XMPP logo, Realtime theme are options.

We could do one of each, if you fancy it.

I will send a message tomorrow and pick this up?

As in one of Jabber and XMPP.

Good point!

I *really* have to go!

Laura: thanks!

Bye!

Laura, Go hcen from this place unto a place of trains.

Assuming bear is still lurking over breakfast, let's go on?

Quorum only counts for opening the meeting, I think.

:)

heh

Ok

5) FOSDEM

So, the bean bags are a thing now

I'm thinking of ordering three of them.

interestingly bear just sent a message to the members@ list :-)

they are €170+21% per

I figured beanbag discussions allowed me to multi-task a bit

I am with Laura -- I need to drive to the Cisco office for some meeting there

(Aside: I've re-joined the gsoc@, we might want gsoc interested people to discuss stuff there).

stpeter: thanks!

bbl

I'll just make a design and post it to the list

We still need projectors, don't we?

dwd: we do

I was hoping those could be obtained at Cisco as well

I think we did that in previous years

Right, we should probably touch base with hildjj about that.

ah yes, one of those other domains I can't connect to right now :-)

http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_Checklist

lists some other things we need

I'd be happy to ride to Ikea with Edwin for said storage containers

and other things that need to be bought

Ah, the Legendary Ikea Diegem Trips.

i would consider it a failed summit if I didn't ride in a car with ralph to ikea

Except that we intend to arrive on Wednesday, so maybe we can do it on that day this year.

You missed the trip I did with Florian driving in the snow.

bear: hm

Florian driving is a terrifying thing at the best of times.

I've also secured some Philips Hue bulbs that I intend to hang down from the ceiling

Possibly in these: http://www.ikea.com/nl/nl/catalog/products/50175771/

They are zigbee controlled via a hub that has an HTTP-based API.

(which I want to tie in with XMPP obviously, as one of the IoT demos)

Right.

Given their function, that seems loungy, too

Yes, indeed.

Ok, anything else?

We started recruiting for demos

so let's push some more on that

XSF Dinner.

Again, Florian said he'd arrange that. We should probably mount a round-the-clock nagging watch on him.

but also sponsoring

I don't expect him to arrange that

Yes, he said he couldn't do the sponsoring.

I imagine I can do some of that. I've actually had one offer already.

so it'd be great if one of you (hello minute-readers, too) could pick that up

OK, I'm done, at least for now.

goo

d

6) AOB?

bear, dwd?

Nope, I'm all meetinged out.

7) Date of next

+1W

+1 to next week

8) Thanks

Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel.

oh about that, could someone update the ICS files?

including those for council?

Tobias, ?

sure

And put the summit in there as well, while you're at it.

Tobias: thanks!

putting the dates in or rebuilding the ics?

I'm not sure I understand the difference.

the end result would be that the xsf.ics one has the summit in there :-D

okay

if you can tell me the UTC dates for those

oh and the summit one too

ralphm, An excellent restraint on micromanaging there.

Tobias, "Make it so."

Tobias: whole day events, no time zone required

the dates are 2014-01-30 and -31

you can probably find last year's entries and cut-n-paste with appropriate edits

ralphm, Except they're actually 1000-1700 or so, +0100, rather than all-day events, surely?

+0100 is ok

board meeting is next week after council?

yes

Tobias: yes

k

16:30 UTC

I'm sending out minutes subtley marked as draft now, so if there are mistakes I'll pretend they were draft all along, and otherwise we'll let them stand.

:)

I've edited the GSoC page to remove some of the invalid ideas, BTW.

(Documentation projects are not allowed)

dwd, both thursday and friday?

the summit

thanks kev

Tobias, Yes.

k

i've also requested from the mail moderator to join gsoc@

dwd: Kev wasn't speaking as Swift, just as past GSoC admin, and the 'we' in question was certainly the XSF, not Swift.

Although the not being chased for ideas was as Swift :)

Kev, Ah, in that case I misunderstood.

Kev, OK, partially misunderstood.

Swift doesn't have ideas up yet, the XSF does.

Although fewer than it did a few minutes ago, after my cull.

Kev: we need XEP-0317 support

Possibly.

Or 258, slightly abused.

but only /slightly/

where do i join gsoc@ maillist?

http://mail.jabber.org/listinfo/gsoc

bah

http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/gsoc

archived?

stpeter cleared up some lists a bit ago

hmm, good question

the archive is still there

so I think this is the case

so..events are in the calendar

bear: could http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo be updated with the gsoc referens

i'll email peter about that now

jabberjocke: that's all automatic in mailman. The point is that for mailman, the lists doesn't currently exist.

Pipermail (the archive frontend) does still have the archive

aah

so the list just needs recreating with new subscribers and such

still, someone with mailman privs needs to flip the bit

yeah, but I hope others than stpeter could do that

like maybe intosi

XSF DInner - Saturday night?

(Caught Florian, BTW, chased him on Hotel, he'll drop Aloft a note tonight)

Saturday night sounds reasonable to me.

dwd: nice. wfm

Usual place?

Florian's Babysitter's.

hehe

I don't actually remember the name of the place, I only remember that the blonde waitress, who's the wife of the chef, was Florian's babysitter.

We must absolutely not remind him of this fact at every opportunity.

of course not. it would be cruel

And we must never be cruel to Florian.

so is checkin on the 30th and checkout on 3rd the default choice the (H) in the wiki http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15#Participants

I'll be checking in on the 29th and checking out on the 2nd.

I think I stipulated a default. But the idea behind that isn't that we'll book a room, anyway, it's so we can get a block of rooms - we'll just need to ensure we have a minimum actually booked.

You did?

It's not immediately obvious to me on the page.

In the mail, rather than on the page.

What was the default?

I can't remember. I suspect I'd have said in for Wednesday night, out for Monday morning.

I would have thought quite a lot of people would be in Wednesday, out Sunday.

Although I'd expect long-haulers to be out Monday.

I think, FWIW, that being a sponsor of hardware should probably be taken on the same sort of basis as a donation of cash.

I don't know what size hardware donation you're talking about, but would we put a logo on every page of the site for an equivalent cash donation?

What about the donation Peter's just arranged?

(@dwd)

The ISoc gift specifically didn't ask for anything. The problem is that getting blanket donations is hard, whereas getting specific donations is comparatively easier - sponsors like to be associated with a specific benefit that aligns with them, or simply a benefit that is seen as generally nice.

Right.

But a logo on every page of the site is a hell of a sponsor benefit.

Yeah, I'm not mad keen on a logo. Just a line of fine text in the footer.

Do we value sponsors of hardware significantly above other sponsors?

We have a footnote in text of sponsors already.

So if the hardware comes to the appropriate magnitude to reach whatever level of sponsorship that is, I think it's fine.

has there been a blog entry about the isoc gift btw?

Right, we do. I'm thinking of calling out what they sponsored (in particular, I'm thinking we should call attention to the hosting too).

fippo, Pass. I don't remember one.