XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2014-02-05


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  45. dwd "During a security review, we found that LibraryThing suffered a data breach in November 2011."
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  48. ralphm hm
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  70. ralphm Board Meeting in 6 min.
  71. ralphm However, dwd is likely to be slightly late
  72. stpeter has joined
  73. ralphm No sign of Laura or Bear so far.
  74. stpeter I know for a fact that Bear's internet is down (ice storm in Philadelphia)
  75. ralphm What, no redundancy?
  76. stpeter :)
  77. stpeter ice storms can wreak havoc
  78. emcho has left
  79. Simon I'm here.
  80. ralphm We have no quorum yet
  81. ralphm So I'll wait for dwd to come back at least
  82. Simon board meetings are a nice distraction from zone file and secondary DNS propagation debugging.
  83. stpeter ok
  84. ralphm Simon: awesome
  85. emcho has joined
  86. dwd Back, just give me a minute to get settled.
  87. dwd Just walked in through the door.
  88. ralphm dwd: no worries
  89. intosi [non-XSF] stpeter: any idea when Jerry will be able to kick hermes2?
  90. stpeter intosi, no but I'll ping him
  91. dwd OK.
  92. ralphm 0. Opening
  93. ralphm Welcome.
  94. intosi stpeter: ta
  95. ralphm Bear is excused for his absense by Act of God.
  96. ralphm Agenda items.
  97. ralphm Summit/FOSDEM recap
  98. ralphm Simon, dwd: any other items?
  99. ralphm stpeter maybe?
  100. Simon Summit recap is all i have on my list for today.
  101. Lloyd Laura sends apologies, interview running long, will be along ASAP
  102. dwd We probably need to get on with Boring Things.
  103. Simon I expect next week we'll have more non summit things to talk about.
  104. ralphm Lloyd: is that worth waiting on?
  105. dwd We've a potential sponsor, we should sort out the membership applications.
  106. ralphm I seem to only have Alex on jabber.org, which is down at the moment.
  107. ralphm 1. XMPP Summit 15 / FOSDEM recap
  108. Lloyd raplhm, trying to find out, if you have enough people I'd say carry on.
  109. ralphm First off, that was a blast.
  110. dwd I agree. I thought it went amazingly well.
  111. ralphm The Summit was very productive, and we have had a good audience and presence at FOSDEM with the Realtime Lounge.
  112. ralphm I'm still collecting some pictures on the Google Plus event page, and will likely make a nice little video from them
  113. dwd Yes, and we drew some new faces and had fun.
  114. ralphm So I'd like to thank everyone involved, again!
  115. ralphm Then onto the less entertaining bits: finances
  116. stpeter yes, thanks to everyone!
  117. dwd Given you led the FOSDEM side, I'll join you in thanking yourself.
  118. Simon FOSDEM was good. And fun. Things that would have helped… a) nobody knew where the realtime lounge was - (we could have some events there or something to get it onto a program for next year). b) there was no signage.
  119. ralphm dwd: hah!
  120. ralphm Simon: agreed
  121. dwd Simon, Sure. It might be worth making a note of the things we think would have made it better now, actually.
  122. ralphm We did bring some gear to make signs, but simply didn't get around to work on them
  123. Simon (annecdote: overheard someone asking for "the difinitive XMPP guide at the oreilly stand - said hello and that he should come and talk to the author at the realtime longe. His response - I've never heard of that"
  124. dwd I mean, not in this meeting, but in this time period.
  125. ralphm dwd: yes
  126. ralphm For next year, I'll make it explicit with the FOSDEM people to put us in all materials as such at least.
  127. dwd We tend to try and think of what to do in the third or fourth week of January, rather than properly doing a post-mortem when it's fresh.
  128. Simon Summit was also good. I feel very happy about the progress made to address posts like Ge0rG's
  129. Simon (on mobile)
  130. Kev I'd suggest the best way to make sure you notice as the time comes is to start the 2015 wiki page now.
  131. ralphm We've earned additional credits for cleaning up after another project that shall remain nameless here.
  132. Kev Unless you have more faith your ability to remember stuff than I have in mine :)
  133. dwd Simon, Yes, that too. I always fear that a Summit can easily denegerate into rather vague discussions, but Kev kept us very much on track.
  134. ralphm Kev: well, we did have a checklist from last year, and largely worked from it, we can just amend it
  135. ralphm http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/index.php?title=FOSDEM_Checklist
  136. dwd ralphm, How do you solve a problem like ...?
  137. Kev ralphm: I accept you may be more organised than me :)
  138. ralphm Kev: well, we did eventually not settle on the swag
  139. intosi We did manage to sell a considerable amount of the old T-shirts.
  140. dwd Which was my fault, really.
  141. ralphm dwd: no worries, we had a lot of stuff to cover
  142. Simon props to DWD's selling skills. He should sell used cars next.
  143. Simon if the whole protocol thingy doesn't work out.
  144. dwd Simon, Well, we sold only 36 t-shirts. I don't think I can build a career on that.
  145. dwd Sorry, 37.
  146. intosi Xtensive Motor Paypment Plan
  147. Zash :D
  148. ralphm Oh, and of course the IoT demo by Joachim should get high praise.
  149. dwd Indeed. That was an easy draw to get people discussing XMPP.
  150. ralphm That drew literally hundreds of people
  151. dwd Which, after all, is the point of the stand/lounge.
  152. ralphm yeah
  153. ralphm One take-away from that was that most visitors, that were all pretty technical, don't know Jabber/XMPP beyond chat.
  154. ralphm at all
  155. dwd And several didn't see it as more than an AOL/MSN replacement, rather than the federated aspects or the V/VOIP.
  156. ralphm So we have to work on our story
  157. ralphm As dicussed at the Summit, there are already a bunch of action items on that.
  158. dwd Right.
  159. Simon indeed - many don't even know what federation is.
  160. ralphm Ok, anything else worth mentioning at this point, board-wise, before moving on to dwd's awesome spreadsheet?
  161. dwd Simon, See, if I fail at this protocol stuff, I have my rusimentary book-keeping skillz.
  162. ralphm that go with the car-salesman
  163. dwd This is true. Shall I open that spreadsheet now, and post a link?
  164. stpeter I might have an AOB for the end of the meeting
  165. ralphm dwd: yes please
  166. Simon sure
  167. ralphm stpeter: ok
  168. dwd https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atl-8pj2dbZ5dGxzdFhsUVpUUlczd2JfZUxPNGNBdGc&usp=sharing
  169. dwd Can a non-boardy person check that link works?
  170. xnyhps has joined
  171. Kev It does.
  172. intosi It does
  173. dwd Also, pheer my accounting skillz. But don't show a real acocuntant, as they'll note that it's not double-entry - really, the XSF should have a general ledger column.
  174. dwd Lovely.
  175. dwd It has comments, but the key is that on the bottom 3 rightmost cells, is the overall figure.
  176. dwd Which is a loss.
  177. Lance has left
  178. stpeter dwd: thanks for the spreadsheet!
  179. Kev dwd: That's a loss for the whole of the summit+FOSDEM, but that was expected, I think? As in - no money was raised for the beanbags et al.
  180. ralphm Kev: yes
  181. ralphm except for one bag now
  182. dwd Kev, Right - in fact &Yet have paid for the Realtime Beanbag.
  183. Kev Which isn't on the spreadsheet?
  184. dwd Kev, But the XSF Dinner sponsorship basically paid for all the food at the Summit as well as the dinner and transport.
  185. ralphm Kev: in the notes
  186. ralphm (in the &yet column)
  187. dwd Kev, It is, it's considered part of their offer. Comments reveal the breakdown.
  188. Kev Ah.
  189. stpeter BTW, we've never really had "expense reports" since I've always been shelling out the money, but I think we can work that out with proper receipts and such
  190. dwd The position is essentially that the XSF curently owes Ralph and I, and a few sponsors need an invoice.
  191. Kev I find this spreadsheet quite informative, so thanks for sharing.
  192. ralphm stpeter: I have receipts for all items. Who do I send them to?
  193. dwd One informative thing is that - rather stupidly, actually - I ended up with the cash. Since it's Euros, it'd have been much more sensible to have Ralph take that. :-)
  194. stpeter ralphm: I think you would scan them in and send them to the board@ list (which is what I've always done)
  195. ralphm stpeter: ack
  196. ralphm dwd: eh, yeah
  197. fippo dwd: I wondered why you wanted cash... ;-)
  198. stpeter dwd: indeed
  199. ralphm dwd: I didn't actually think that through
  200. dwd stpeter, Similarly I've the Dinner receipt, though not any receipt for the tip.
  201. dwd ralphm, No, nor did I.
  202. stpeter dwd: in the past, I have taken the cash (if any) and changed it upon return to the States, then put it back in our bank account
  203. dwd ralphm, Now, if only we had a Treasurer, we could get paid.
  204. ralphm dwd: I was assuming that's you really
  205. stpeter right, we do lack a real Treasurer
  206. stpeter and have for years
  207. Tobias the last one was jack, no?
  208. stpeter but that's out of scope for today's meeting, I think :-)
  209. ralphm stpeter: let's put it on next weeks agenda
  210. stpeter even Jack was never established properly as the Treasuruer with bank access and such
  211. Tobias ah..ok
  212. ralphm stpeter: so I'll guess that's just you now, right?
  213. stpeter yes
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  215. dwd Anyway, would the Board like to approve that spreadsheet at this point?
  216. ralphm I looks good to me
  217. Simon happy to approve.
  218. ralphm dwd: are any mutations expected?
  219. dwd I don't know of any pending changes.
  220. ralphm I assume you haven't actually gotten all donations yet
  221. dwd I don't know if Bear's finished his changes, but I think so.
  222. ralphm I wonder if it would be more cost-effective to have not route some of that through the US
  223. dwd ralphm, No, the XSF needs to invoice the remaining amounts.
  224. ralphm e.g. having a in-EU transfer to me from isode
  225. stpeter ralphm: perhaps
  226. dwd Yeah... I can discuss that with Isode if you like.
  227. ralphm knowing that US money transfers are crazy expensive
  228. ralphm I don't want to sponsor the banks if not needed
  229. ralphm Ok
  230. ralphm anything else?
  231. stpeter couldn't we use the obscure and never-documented Instant Money (IM) extensions to XMPP?
  232. SouL has joined
  233. ralphm stpeter: sure
  234. dwd stpeter, They turn out to be troublesome to oeprate. Many start-ups have tried.
  235. Lance has joined
  236. ralphm 2. Sponsors
  237. ralphm dwd: go
  238. dwd We have at least one interested sponsor, possibly two. One is ready for some formal instructions on how to proceed.
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  241. stpeter that reminds me, I need to read Laura's draft of a post about ISOC
  242. ralphm stpeter: how does this usually work?
  243. stpeter dwd: what I've done is invoice the sponsor and work with them on text for their sponsor page, including images
  244. ralphm dwd: are you taking this on?
  245. dwd Can do. Do we have vaguely official invoice type stuff, and I'll sort the lot?
  246. stpeter dwd: I can send you samples of what I've generated in the past
  247. ralphm awesome
  248. dwd ALso, FTR, I've confirmed with Isode that they can pay the money direct to Ralph in €.
  249. stpeter I'll just send them to the board@ list for general perusal
  250. dwd stpeter, Sounds good.
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  252. stpeter often I have found that we need to write the sponsor page text
  253. stpeter in fact that might be better so it is more descriptive than laudatory
  254. ralphm Simon: are you and Laura also taking on those pages?
  255. stpeter speaking of sponsors, I think it would be appropriate at this point to remove Google from the list of sponsors (their last donation was a long long time ago)
  256. dwd stpeter, We remove the sponsor once we finish spending their money, right?
  257. ralphm stpeter: have we solicited Google for another donation?
  258. stpeter ralphm: I have not
  259. waqas has left
  260. ralphm even though they are moving away from XMPP in their Hangouts stuff, it seems to still be a thing in other areas
  261. stpeter right
  262. ralphm (devices, GCM)
  263. fippo if I'd get paid for any bug i reported while mapping the webrtc sdp to jingle and vice versa... :-)
  264. dwd It would be good - they've cost us enough by their comments to the media, it would at least go some way to repairing that damage.
  265. stpeter adds pinging Chris DiBona to his todo list
  266. ralphm dwd: heh
  267. ralphm ok
  268. ralphm anything else on sponsors?
  269. dwd ralphm, I'm actually quite serious. If we could point out to people that they're a current sponsor, it would be helpful.
  270. ralphm dwd: I assumed you were serious
  271. intosi has left
  272. ralphm and I agree with it, too
  273. ralphm left hand / right hand and all that
  274. dwd ralphm, I think I'm good. Does the Board which to formally approve sponsors, by the way?
  275. dwd s/which/wish/
  276. SouL has left
  277. dwd Because if so, I'd have thought it's something we should to in camera. (ie, not in public).
  278. intosi@ik.nu has joined
  279. stpeter hmm, interesting, I just discovered that vtc.amazon.com is an XMPP service
  280. ralphm I don't feel we have to approve sponsors, really.
  281. stpeter nods to ralphm
  282. Kev I actually feel like Board should.
  283. Kev As it can be seen as an advertising deal on the XSF site.
  284. stpeter well, unless the sponsors would reflect badly on the XSF :-)
  285. ralphm If a sponsor should appear that we don't want money from, we can discuss it when that happens
  286. Kev I'm happy for the approval to be implicit :)
  287. dwd ralphm, I would rather that we put the policy in place while we're not doing anything contraversial.
  288. Kev It doesn't seem harmful or onerous to approve sponsors, to me.
  289. ralphm I trust the officer in charge of sponsors (hi dwd) can act on behalf of the board on this
  290. dwd I'm not an officer.
  291. dwd (that has a specific meaning)
  292. dwd Kev, FWIW, I agree.
  293. ralphm I meant Director
  294. ralphm But sure, let's do this oob
  295. ralphm Moving on then
  296. ralphm 3. AOB
  297. stpeter in the past I have given the Board a heads-up about incoming sponsors, but I done so on the board@ list
  298. ralphm stpeter?
  299. dwd Right. I'll post details to the Secret List
  300. stpeter yes
  301. Kev I have a small request here.
  302. Kev I'd quite like the vote to happen in normal Board meetings.
  303. Kev I realise the details remain OOB.
  304. ralphm Kev: yes, for next meeting
  305. dwd Kev, You want a named sponsor to be declined publicly?
  306. ralphm so we first discuss and then formalize it in the regular meeting
  307. Kev dwd: No, I explicitly said not that.
  308. ralphm Kev: what if the vote is not unanimous?
  309. dwd Kev, I'm not understanding what you mean, then.
  310. Kev I'd just like the vote to happen as a normal Board vote, which means here. I'm happy for it to be as simple as "The sponorship deal discussed on list - who's in favour?".
  311. Kev That is - I'd like to default to being public, and elide the bits that can't be shared, rather than moving it entirely OOB.
  312. ralphm I'm sorry, but if it is a public vote, it shall also be a named item.
  313. dwd Kev, Unless two happen to be in progress at the same time, I think political realities would indicate that meant the sponsor would in effect be named if they were accepted, and if the vote were a 3-2, that'd be uncomfortable.
  314. dwd Kev, FWIW, I think it'd put some sponsors off "applying".
  315. Lance has left
  316. stpeter in practice I doubt that we'd ever turn down a sponsor unless it was some shady company, and that's unlikely
  317. stpeter so making it as public as possible seems fine to me
  318. ralphm I would not really feel comfortable in publicly announcing a non-unanimous sponsor decision, whatever the outcome.
  319. stpeter may I raise my "AOB" item now?
  320. dwd ralphm, I agree.
  321. Simon stpeter - I've been waiting all evening.
  322. ralphm stpeter: yes. Kev's point will be considered
  323. ralphm 3. AOB.
  324. stpeter I have asked Thijs Alkemade if he would be able and willing to present about our work on hardening the XMPP network at the W3C/IAB workshop to be held on Feb 28 / March 1 (see https://www.w3.org/2014/strint/ for details) - he is agreeable and I think it would be appropriate for the XSF to pay for his expenses to participate in the workshop. I'll also note that the meeting is coming up quickly and Thijs would need to plan travel and hotel.
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  326. Kev [Last thing for my point - if we can't have anything done in public, I'd at least like the result to be publicly minuted. So either X was accepted as a sponsor, on An Unnamed Sponsor offer was rejected. To be added to consideration]
  327. stpeter my proposal to present at the workshop - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saintandre-strint-workshop-xmpp/ - has been accepted, but I think it would be great for Thijs to present about it
  328. ralphm Kev: noted
  329. ralphm stpeter: I think this is a great idea.
  330. Simon stpeter: +1 sounds great.
  331. emcho has joined
  332. Kev Is Thijs a member? Seems slightly odd for the XSF to pay for someone unaffiliated to represent them (not that this makes it a bad idea)
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  334. stpeter good experience and recognition for Thijs among other things
  335. xnyhps Kev: I am not.
  336. ralphm xnyhps: WHAY!
  337. stpeter I don't see why it makes any difference whether Thijs is a member
  338. SouL has left
  339. ralphm stpeter: agreed
  340. dwd stpeter, Yes, I agree, but I think we should make a Thing out of this - get a little wider publicity.
  341. stpeter we have plenty of members who do nothing, and Thijs has done a lot
  342. Kev I said 'slightly odd' and explicitly noted that this didn't make it a bad idea.
  343. stpeter Kev: yep
  344. Kev We have more than that, we have plenty of members that we might not want to represent the XSF :)
  345. stpeter Kev: the only slightly odd thing is that it would be great if Thijs were an XSF member
  346. fippo xnyhps: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_Q1_2014 :-)
  347. stpeter Kev: :-)
  348. stpeter dwd: sure
  349. Tobias has joined
  350. stpeter can the Board agree in principle so that Thijs can start making plans, get registered for the workshop, etc.?
  351. ralphm stpeter, xnyhps: can you send us an estimate?
  352. Simon full agreement here.
  353. stpeter I'll also need to inform the workshop organizers that Thijs would be presenting
  354. ralphm I'm +1 in principle
  355. dwd I'd be inclined to say just book it.
  356. stpeter it's London, isn't that the most expensive city in the world?
  357. dwd xnyhps, Where are you flying in from?
  358. xnyhps Netherlands, so I'm not sure I'll be actually flying.
  359. dwd xnyhps, Whereabouts? intosi@ik.nu might be able to suggest sensible routes into London; he travels enough.
  360. Kev Are we expecting there to be general XMPP discussion in strint beyond this presentation being made?
  361. xnyhps Utrecht.
  362. dwd Kev, I think STRINT is mostly about general "post-Snowden" security; I wouldn't expect a lot of XMPP discussion.
  363. stpeter right
  364. stpeter this is a general workshop
  365. intosi has joined
  366. Kev I hadn't previously expected it.
  367. stpeter people talking about security from many angles
  368. Kev But, given the presentation... seemed worth asking.
  369. dwd Kev, I'd hope that Thijs and Peter can get some XMPP discussion going, though.
  370. stpeter it is a good opportunity to show that the XMPP community is in the forefront
  371. dwd stpeter, Right.
  372. Paulo has joined
  373. dwd stpeter, Be sure to mention the lavish dinners we have, too.
  374. ralphm It has been decided, I believe.
  375. ralphm Any other any other business?
  376. stpeter I need to apologize for not getting busy with the Editorial Team -- I'll set up a meeting about that next week
  377. dwd I'd suggest Thijs (and stpeter) try to get into "the conference hotel", whichever that is. The benefits of the corridor meetings that result that way are huge.
  378. Simon Do we need to discuss any of the Summit work?
  379. ralphm stpeter: you're excused, naturally
  380. dwd stpeter, There were additional volunteers guilted into it at the Summit, IIRC.
  381. Kev Every non-Council/Board member present, by my count.
  382. ralphm dwd: there's no "conference hotel" apparently
  383. dwd ralphm, Probably the IETF one, then.
  384. stpeter Kev: :-)
  385. ralphm Simon: I think we should digest the notes by Bear and discuss next week, if needed.
  386. ralphm I'm toast.
  387. Simon ralphm: +1
  388. ralphm 4. Date of Next
  389. ralphm +1W
  390. ralphm 5. Close
  391. ralphm Thanks all!
  392. ralphm bangs gavel
  393. dwd Thanks, ralphm
  394. Kev I think the intention is for there to be a London Meetup sometime around the end of the month.
  395. ralphm Simon: can you create minutes?
  396. Simon ralphm: sure
  397. ralphm awesome
  398. Tobias Kev, the usual XMPP UK Meetup or something else?
  399. Zash London Meetup!
  400. ralphm Simon: please send them to the members list
  401. Simon nods
  402. Kev Tobias: The usual, but possibly proximity will have an effect.
  403. ralphm I still have London reserved in my agenda, but haven't decided on coming yet
  404. Kev I'm intending to make it over if interesting things are happening.
  405. Zash When, exactly, was this supposed to take place?
  406. Kev Unknown.
  407. ralphm IETF 89 is 2-7 march
  408. stpeter Zash: that would be Saturday March 1 o rSUnday MArch 2 I suppose -- it
  409. ralphm stpeter: get a new keyboard
  410. stpeter it's easier for me to reserve a free meeting room on Saturday or Sunday
  411. stpeter since that's before the IETF meeting really gets going
  412. ralphm When everybody is still fresh
  413. stpeter that too :-)
  414. ralphm wanders off
  415. stpeter ok
  416. Tobias yeah..conference climate kills brain cells
  417. Kev Tobias: You weren't there when my brain stopped on Thursday :)
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  424. stpeter BTW another possibility for an XMPP meetup in London is Tuesday, March 4 -- that's the day of the XMPP WG session and perhaps we could figure out a way to pay for XSF members to attend on a day pass
  425. stpeter bbiaf
  426. emcho has left
  427. stpeter OK I need to shut down this machine, bbl
  428. stpeter has left
  429. ralphm I thought that hildjj said there wasn't going to be an XMPP WG session. Did I misinterpret that?
  430. fippo there is, updated the wiki page
  431. ralphm fippo: awesome, thanks
  432. fippo stpeter did the work
  433. ralphm thanks, stpeter
  434. Simon has left
  435. ralphm There. Key signing done, too
  436. intosi \o/
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  446. dwd Heh. Yes, stpeter. An early start at the pub is certainly of interest to many in the XMPP community. :-)
  447. Zash o/
  448. bear catches up on the meeting logs
  449. Tobias has joined
  450. ralphm dwd: +1
  451. ralphm bear: snow much?
  452. dwd ralphm, To what? Paying for folk, or going to the pub early?
  453. dwd ralphm, Or both. Both is good too.
  454. ralphm dwd: yes
  455. bear snow then ice and now rain. more snow and ice later tonight
  456. bear it's a miserable day outside :/
  457. ralphm bear: at least you're back online
  458. bear true
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  462. Ge0rG bear: would you mind adding http://community.igniterealtime.org/docs/DOC-2678 to the GSoC list on the xmpp wiki?
  463. bear sure can
  464. Neustradamus thanks guys about jabber.org return!
  465. waqas Does the jabber.org team still make announcements about issues on twitter and the notice page?
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  468. bear Ge0rG - done
  469. Kev waqas: Not reliably.
  470. Ge0rG bear: +1 for you
  471. Neustradamus have you planned to do a post about SUMMIT and FOSDEM on the website?
  472. waqas Ge0rG: Is that aSmack getting merged into Smack?
  473. Ge0rG waqas: http://community.igniterealtime.org/blogs/ignite/2014/02/02/stepping-down-as-lead
  474. Ge0rG waqas: so yes
  475. Ge0rG Neustradamus: who, and which website?
  476. bear we have a few posts that are pending about the summit - I know for myself that I have been spending the last couple of days recovering from the trip and dealing with work issues
  477. Ge0rG will make an extensive blog post about the summit as soon as lance comes up with an update to PUSH
  478. dwd bear, Where did you put that Summit notes page again?
  479. bear dwd http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_15_Minutes
  480. Neustradamus on xmpp.org, maybe bear or other, I was not at Fosdem... :/
  481. Ge0rG unfortunately, great discussion and feedback was not the only thing I got from Brussels. It looks like some evil virus invaded my body, reducing my blogging capacity to 10%
  482. bear like Ge0rG - it seems that something evil has invaded my brain and i'm not 100% at all
  483. dwd Ge0rG, Sorry to hear that. I hope it wasn't the same symptoms as Lloyd and I.
  484. Ge0rG is heading back to bed now. cu
  485. bear waves to Ge0rG
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  491. Neustradamus Whaou: http://community.igniterealtime.org/blogs/ignite/2014/02/05/openfire-390-has-been-released
  492. Zash > The item does not exist. It may have been deleted.
  493. Neustradamus strange...
  494. Neustradamus It is on: http://www.igniterealtime.org/index.jsp
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  514. Kev I have a question about the London suggested dates of Saturday the 1st or Sunday the 3rd.
  515. Kev :)
  516. dwd Right, we missed out Saturday-night the 2nd.
  517. dwd It'll be a long night.
  518. Lance Ge0rG: I'm working on the Push XEP now :)
  519. Ge0rG Lance: ♥
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