Tuesday, February 11, 2014
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[08:26:21] <ralphm> https://twitter.com/g0rdin/statuses/432999314257084417
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[08:27:41] <ralphm> For those with some German skills. For those without, the executive summary is: "Carbons >>> Hangouts, Stream Management is awesome. Yeah. The future. Yeah."
[08:29:04] <simon> he's a happy camper. Now we just need to get some mobile clients sorted.
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[08:59:23] <ralphm> I really like watching http://display.ik.nu/xmpp.
[09:00:04] <Tobias> you and your self-signed certs ;)
[09:01:24] <ralphm> :-D
[09:01:56] <ralphm> Better than nothing, I suppose?
[09:02:04] <Tobias> probably
[09:02:20] <Tobias> it says via Twitter, are there other source that go into it?
[09:03:27] <ralphm> Not for this feed, no. But ikDisplay can have multiple different sources. It was originally created as a back channel for the federated semantic-web-like social networking sites I worked on at Mediamatic.
[09:03:40] <ralphm> Including ActivityStreams.
[09:04:05] <ralphm> https://github.com/ralphm/ikdisplay
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[09:11:07] <ralphm> Tobias: do you have any use cases?
[09:12:12] <Tobias> ralphm, just wondered about the sources...but i suppose not many networks have sources for public streams anyway
[09:12:54] <ralphm> Yay silos.
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[09:40:13] <ralphm> Tobias: That said, it probably should have support for Superfeedr. However, its XMPP PubSub API has some non-standard warts.
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[16:15:35] <dwd> xnyhps, To be fair, if you send more than 2^96 stanzas, you've a better than even chance of hitting a collision.
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[16:18:21] <xnyhps> You want to send the entire internet how many times? ;)
[16:18:22] <dwd> xnyhps, Although I imagine we could mitigate that by recommending people restart their XMLStream at least once before the heat death of the universe.
[16:34:19] <Lloyd> :)
[16:39:52] <jabberjocke> anybody have a good federated xmpp domain for groupies to the philips hue bands we are startig around the world
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[16:42:17] <jabberjocke> the anni-frid@jabber.se <mailto:anni-frid@jabber.se>,bjorn@jabber.se <mailto:bjorn@jabber.se>, benny@jabber.se <mailto:benny@jabber.se> agneta@jabber.se <mailto:agneta@jabber.se> from abba@jabber.se <mailto:abba@jabber.se> is soon online
[16:43:08] <Tobias> disco will get a completely new meaning in the XMPP world (:
[16:46:57] <jabberjocke> YEEES :)
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[16:50:38] <ralphm> jabberjocke: looking awesome #hue
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[17:02:10] <dwd> xnyhps, Oh, he's right.
[17:02:54] <dwd> xnyhps, I think you hit parity on the probability of hitting a 10 hex-char (ie, 48-bit) hash fragment after only 4.5 million years on a stanza per second.
[17:05:43] <xnyhps> I meant outputting the first 10 bytes of the hash, not the first 10 bytes of the hex representation of the hash, so 80 bit.
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[17:06:22] <xnyhps> (Also, 10 hex-char is 40 bit, isn't it?)
[17:06:42] <dwd> Ah, yes.
[17:07:54] <Kev> It is worth noting, potentially, that while they're a generally bad idea, 0-based integer counters do have bandwidth going for them :)
[17:09:41] <Tobias> yeah...think of all the savings....when outputting tons of bloated XML
[17:09:42] <Tobias> ^^
[17:09:48] <dwd> Oh, don't start.
[17:10:08] <Tobias> ;)
[17:12:56] <xnyhps> Use compression, and pick random parts from the stream so far to use as ids.
[17:13:31] <dwd> That actually works.
[17:13:39] <Kev> Absolutely.
[17:13:53] <Kev> Use an RNG to select bits of a stream to avoid needing to use an RNG.
[17:14:05] <dwd> Kev, No, this is for saving bandwidth.
[17:14:34] <xnyhps> Just hope you don't actually pick the content of a message. :P
[17:14:56] <Kev> dwd: It can't possibly save bandwidth.
[17:15:13] <Kev> However many bytes of entropy you want to have are going to take that many bytes to transmit.
[17:15:30] <Kev> (At least that many bytes to transmit, you could transmit lots with little entropy, I realise)
[17:16:25] <dwd> Kev, No, not at all. If you select carefully, you can generate random identifiers that are always encoded by zlib as a reference, hence three octets or so.
[17:17:10] <Kev> And by doing so, you're reducing the entropy.
[17:17:42] <Kev> You're talking about selecting your randomness very carefully so that it's not too random :)
[17:18:29] <dwd> Smallish number of bits.
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[17:18:55] <dwd> But it's OK, because you could send the *real* random data earlier in the stream to refer back to.
[17:19:58] <Kev> This is close enough to the edge of my knowledge that I accept I could be wrong in this. But this sounds like Not A Good Idea.
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[17:20:23] <xnyhps> I was entirely not serious.
[17:20:46] <dwd> xnyhps, Nor me. But I'm wondering how far I can string Kev along. :-)
[17:22:11] <Kev> xnyhps: You, I believe. Dave I have less faith in...
[17:23:23] <dwd> Kev, You didn't like the suggestion that you'd put arbitrary random data in the stream, then refer back to it, so you get both the compression *and* the randomness?
[17:23:31] <dwd> I was proud of that one.
[17:23:48] <Kev> That bit I assumed was a joke. The rest I was less convinced about.
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[17:32:59] *stpeter thinks of the acronym DFTT
[17:34:20] <xnyhps> Sorry Peter.
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[18:02:16] <stpeter> xnyhps: I haven't seen anything useful from this person, but I admit that I have started to tune him out (not quite killfile, but close)
[18:02:44] <xnyhps> Me neither
[18:03:01] <Kev> You're talking about me, right? :p
[18:03:19] <stpeter> ;-)
[18:04:15] <Zash> Who are you?
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[21:08:01] <jabberjocke> created a fosdem post draft at xmpp.org <http://xmpp.org>; please review and add a good foto
[21:08:01] <Kev> Right, I think that's comments for the people who asked for them on GSoC ideas given.
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