XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2014-02-12


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  105. bear current agenda items for todays board meeting: Editor Team
  106. bear doh!
  107. bear Editor Team GSoC Update ???
  108. Simon did we want to mention anything about the upcoming SSL test day?
  109. bear yes please
  110. ralphm Woah bear, you're awake!
  111. bear Editorial Team GSoC Update Upcoming Ubiquitous Encyrption Test Day
  112. ralphm Also, this is still pre-meeting, yes?
  113. bear hush ralphm - you may scare me into going back to sleep
  114. bear yes
  115. Zash Did anyone write a summary of the last test day?
  116. m&m has joined
  117. bear I don't believe so - I was finding it hard to know how well it did
  118. Zash There was some ML discussion, iirc
  119. bear if you point me to some words that are close to a summary, I can polish them and make a post
  120. stpeter has joined
  121. bear pokes dwd
  122. bear pokes laura
  123. Laura Stop poking me! I;m here :)
  124. bear :)
  125. bear current agenda: Editorial Team update by Kev GSoC Update XMPP Test Day ???
  126. Laura XMPPUK meetup / IETF
  127. Kev To save issues if I don't pay attention in the meeting, Council would like to suggest Matt Miller, Ashley Ward, Stefan Strigler, Lloyd Watkin, Steffen Larsen and Winfried Tilanus as the Editor team.
  128. stpeter at least is here for the Board meeting
  129. bear thanks Kev
  130. Kev (This is, for those paying attention, the list of all non-Council and non-Board volunteers who posted to the list request. It does not include those who implicitly volunteered by not raising their hand when I asked who was not willing to volunteer at the summit :))
  131. stpeter heh
  132. Kev bear: You have a PM from me, if you'd take a look please :)
  133. bear uhhh
  134. bear reads
  135. dwd decloacks.
  136. bear is that what a ducks does when it decloaks?
  137. bear ok, with dave here - we have everyone present - shall we start? laura, ralphm, Simon, dwd ??
  138. Simon waves
  139. dwd Wow. Full house.
  140. Laura It's a miracle!
  141. bear and with that I shall...
  142. bear bangs the gavel
  143. Alex has left
  144. bear current agenda: Editorial Team, GSoC, XMPP Test Day, XMPP UK Meetup
  145. bear any other agenda items?
  146. ralphm here
  147. bear no other items to add to the agenda?
  148. dwd Yeah, could we try and enumerate all the things we said we'd put off until after FOSDEM?
  149. stpeter dwd: :-)
  150. dwd Also, FOSDEM renumeration etc.
  151. bear ok, first item - the Council has suggested a starting list of folks for the Editorial work team:Matt Miller, Ashley Ward, Stefan Strigler, Lloyd Watkin, Steffen Larsen and Winfried Tilanus
  152. stpeter we're numbering FOSDEM again?
  153. ralphm wacks stpeter
  154. bear unless any objects, I say we vote yea/nea for that list and then send out an email to members@
  155. Kev That should be everyone in the "Editorial team" thread, sans Board/Council.
  156. bear looks in horror at his typing today
  157. ralphm +1 om the Team
  158. Kev If someone could double-check that, it'd be good.
  159. Laura +1
  160. dwd The list looks good, and with enough people. I'm +1.
  161. bear kev - the list is accurate
  162. Kev bear: TY.
  163. dwd (Without feeling a need to go hunt for more).
  164. bear simon?
  165. Simon +1
  166. ralphm WOOOO
  167. bear thanks - I will email the members@ team and cc the above with the info
  168. stpeter great
  169. dwd Oh - is stpeter volunteering for the team, or is this a complete handover?
  170. ralphm Assuming bear voted +1, too
  171. bear +1
  172. stpeter we'll schedule an organizational meeting next week sometime
  173. bear stpeter is specifically denied a spot on the team
  174. bear :)
  175. stpeter heh
  176. dwd I'm fine either way, just want to know.
  177. stpeter well, we will need to work out processes and procedures and all that, so I suppose I'll be an advisor of some kind
  178. bear I think yes, he is on the team
  179. bear righ
  180. waqas has joined
  181. dwd OK, cool.
  182. bear ok, on to the next item: GSoC update
  183. waqas has left
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  185. bear we have had two groups add items to the project list but they are still lacking some details - emails have gone out for more information but the deadline is fast approacching.
  186. bear what I would like the board to do is agree that Kev and myself will be making the final call to apply or not later this week after we have reviewed the projects.
  187. dwd Sure.
  188. bear is that ok with the board?
  189. ralphm I'm confidant that bear and Kev can make that call.
  190. dwd Is the aim to do a "good" XSF GSoC application, or merely a "good enough" one?
  191. ralphm +1
  192. bear a good one
  193. Kev dwd: Good.
  194. Laura +1
  195. dwd OK, I'm fine with that as the policy.
  196. dwd +1 (for the sake of clarification)
  197. Kev "Good enough" doesn't get in to GSoC, generates work for the XSF, and generates work for the GSoC team who have to review all the applications.
  198. Kev So unless we can be confident that our houses are well and truly in order (or made of cards, or something), I'd like us to not enter.
  199. bear simon has dropped off - i'll add his vote later, but right now it's 4 +1's
  200. bear yes, given the status and nature of the work, I do not want to get us involved unless we have a firm set of projects
  201. Kev As things stand at the moment, the IoT and BC ones are almost there, but not quite. Smack has appeared from nowhere without knowing who's involved, and the Gajim ones are incomplete. So unless things change, I think we should gracefully skip another year.
  202. Simon has joined
  203. stpeter nods
  204. bear ok, that is a Yes to allowing Kev and myself to making the final call for GSoC
  205. ralphm indeed
  206. bear thanks Kev for riding herd on that task
  207. bear ok, next item: XMPP Test Day
  208. Simon sorry - connectivity issues.
  209. Simon here
  210. bear do we have anyone who wants to write up a blog post about the upcoming test day?
  211. bear thanks simon
  212. dwd At the risk of sounding immeasurably ill-informed, what test day?
  213. Simon Happy to write a quick post and forward it.
  214. bear we should also get someone to write up a summary of the last one
  215. Simon Just a "hey - we're testing security again"
  216. bear that works for me - email it to me and i'll get it posted
  217. Simon bear: will do.
  218. Laura Dave won't be writing the blog then
  219. ralphm Laura: :-D
  220. bear this will have the same tone as the last one - that we are notifying of the event and without any explicit XSF endorsements
  221. Simon 22nd is a Saturday incase anyone is wondering
  222. dwd Oh, this is for the manifesto thing.
  223. bear heck, I don't even know what today is
  224. fippo is there a non-saturday test scheduled?
  225. Simon don't know.
  226. dwd Laura, I'll be *reading* the blog post, though.
  227. bear fippo: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Security_XMPP
  228. bear ok, anything else for test day item?
  229. stpeter they are all Saturdays
  230. ralphm intentionally, I assumed
  231. stpeter the next ones are February 22, March 22, and April 19
  232. stpeter yes
  233. fippo well, at least one of the tests should be on a day when people using jabber at work should notice.
  234. Simon stpeter: last I heard Google was promising to do something s2s wise. But not it seems not.
  235. dwd Simon, I was told this by an anonymous Googler at FOSDEM, too.
  236. Simon btw, is jabber.org taking part in the tests?
  237. Kev It is.
  238. Kev It did for the last one, at least.
  239. stpeter Simon: they promised by May 19, not necessarily before
  240. Simon ok - unless there is other security stuff, let's move on.
  241. bear next item - XMPP UK Meetup
  242. bear laura?
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  245. Laura Yes, just to say that Dave is helping me to organise the XMPP UK Meetup in March
  246. Laura And I would like to share a blog post about the ITEF / XMPPUK meetup days
  247. Laura If I may
  248. dwd I am?
  249. Simon what's the final date?
  250. Laura Tues 4th March
  251. bear please do post to the blog and to members@
  252. Laura And yes Dave, you are
  253. Kev This is the meetup Lloyd promised me would be in February, so I could plan to attend :p
  254. Laura I got bullied into moving it
  255. Laura To align with IETF event?
  256. dwd Kev, March is the new February.
  257. Lloyd Laura: bullied? Oi!
  258. Laura I have written ITEF / IETF - it's something like that
  259. Kev Internet Task Engineering Force.
  260. Kev I can believe that.
  261. Laura Ahhh
  262. Laura That
  263. dwd Kev, :-)
  264. ralphm Kev: you can still plan to attend
  265. stpeter Internet Engineering Task Force aka IETF
  266. Kev ralphm: I can. That day is just jolly inconvenient.
  267. ralphm well, yeah, carnival and all that. I understand
  268. Laura That is all from me, just wanted all to be aware
  269. dwd Oh. This reminds me of another agenda entry.
  270. bear laura - will be posting to blog and members@ (or forward me the words and i'll do it)
  271. bear wow - my english sucks today
  272. Laura Will do. Fabulous
  273. bear thanks
  274. dwd stpeter made the (very sensible) suggestion of the XSF funding day-tickets for the IETF, so we could help people attend the XMPP_WG meeting.
  275. bear we should mention that in the members@ post
  276. dwd I'd second this, and also extend it both beyond XSF members, and also beyond just the IETF fee, on a case-by-case basis.
  277. ralphm bear: what is your native language?
  278. dwd We should probably vote on both.
  279. dwd ralphm, Growls.
  280. bear ralphm - grunts
  281. Simon has left
  282. ralphm :-D
  283. bear anyhone opposed to funding the IETF day pass reimbursement?
  284. Simon has joined
  285. bear (doing it as two votes)
  286. Laura No
  287. bear i'm +1 on day pass funding
  288. Kev I do have a question about this.
  289. bear sure
  290. Kev Which is has anyone formulated what the benefit to the XSF is of arbitrary members being sponsored to attend?
  291. Kev (blanket, rather than case by case - there are certainly members whose attendance is beneficial. I'm less convinced that it's all)
  292. bear the benefit is getting XSF members present and participating in the WG discussions
  293. Kev That's what it does, it's not clearly a benefit :)
  294. Simon I can imagine a hardship fund in extreme cases - but to be funding "arbirtary" members seems a little odd to me.
  295. bear increasing participation by removing a financial barrier
  296. stpeter BTW, the student fee is less than the day pass fee
  297. Tobias for locals of course
  298. ralphm arguably, one can participate without being physically present
  299. Simon Q: what is a day pass fee?
  300. ralphm $350
  301. Tobias stpeter, been reading that in a couple years they'll be back in berlin (:
  302. ralphm $650 early bird all days
  303. stpeter well, given that this is probably the last XMPP WG meeting, it might be beneficial to have some people who know about XMPP participating while we make decisions
  304. Laura I am with Kev, I don't understand offering to pay for people 'outside' of our community?
  305. ralphm (<=21 Feb)
  306. dwd I think the benefit to the XSF is providing increased participation in specification development.
  307. ralphm and $800 after
  308. stpeter Laura: well, these are people inside our community
  309. Simon I can see this making sense in the one-off case for xnyhps - but let's deal with this on a case by case basis rather than trying to establish a blanket rule.
  310. bear I don't believe it was for outside of XSF people
  311. dwd Laura, XSF members are (or should be) involved with helping to run the XSF. XMPP folk, though, are a broader community.
  312. Kev Do we have count(XSF Members) * $350 we can easily spare from the XSF kitty?
  313. Laura Got you. I take my comment back. As you all were.
  314. dwd Kev, Actually, yes, I think we probably do.
  315. stpeter realistically how many people do we think might take advantage of this offer? let's poll the members to find out
  316. stpeter I would say perhaps only a few, but I don't know
  317. bear count(XSF) = 52 but I don't think we will get 52
  318. ralphm Who in this room would maybe apply for this?
  319. dwd Laura, Ah, but there's a little point in my comment, which is that sponsoring XSF members without question probably isn't in line with our goals.
  320. Lance has joined
  321. bear and if we have that problem, then I will back up my thought with getting the sponsor for that value
  322. ralphm I'm am personally thinking about going.
  323. Kev bear: I don't either. I just worry about writing checks we can't cash (sic).
  324. stpeter (I'll not again that I think this is a one-time event)
  325. dwd ralphm, I honestly don't know whether I would ask for the cash or not.
  326. stpeter s/not/note/
  327. ralphm dwd: and that, too
  328. Laura We could be creative here
  329. Laura If people did want funding to attend, we could ask for a commitment from them
  330. Kev I will probably try to attend, and I'm not sure it's reasonable to ask Isode to pay for it (given Isode's Alexey involvement in the IETF), or to ask Cath to let me pay it myself. So I might well.
  331. Laura A little 'I will scratch your back if you scratch mine'
  332. ralphm People will have to pay to get there. If they show that commitment, I'm ok with funding a day pass.
  333. Tobias if I were already near the event for other reasons, but traveling just for that, there is just too much costs involved (aside from the meeting fees)
  334. stpeter Tobias: yes
  335. stpeter Tobias: the meeting fee is the smallest part of it, really
  336. ralphm stpeter: you'd be surprised for europeans
  337. dwd stpeter, FOr the whole meeting, yes. Not so much for a couple of nights.
  338. Tobias indeed...i heard london isn't the cheapest place across europe
  339. bear do we have a consensus on this: let's email the members@ list and poll to find out how many people would be interested in having the XSF cover their day-pass cost
  340. dwd We could see about a block booking at a hotel to cut costs. We've enough London or London-savvy people to help folk navigate.
  341. dwd bear, I would rather email standards@ actually. Those are the people who would bring most benefit.
  342. Simon What do people planning on attending the XMPP WG hope to achieve that is not being achieved at the Summits and on mailing lists?
  343. Laura +1 to poll
  344. ralphm dwd: not, say, the xmppwg list?
  345. ralphm Simon: that's a fair question
  346. Kev Simon: I do generally feel I have things to say in the WG meetings, and saying them remotely is a bit of a bind.
  347. dwd Simon, I think the simple answer is that the XMPP WG meetings are to the core RFCs what the Summits are to XEPs.
  348. Kev (That is - I almost always attend the XMPP WG meetings, remotely)
  349. fippo simon: the audience at the IETF is quite different from the summit one.
  350. Tobias fippo, indeed :D
  351. dwd Also, I think a clearly visible, vibrant community would encourage the reverse - IETF folk joining in with XMPP related activity.
  352. fippo summit == people deeply involved in xmpp. ietf == mostly people doing other ietf stuff
  353. stpeter Simon: decisions on the WebSocket draft, DNA/POSH, etc. - and perhaps this is an inducement for people to also participate in the XMPP-UK meetup (or perhaps the other way around: participate in the XMPP WG session if they're already planning to be at the XMPP UK meeting)
  354. dwd ralphm, And finally - the xmppwg list also works for me, but my possibly erroneous feeling si that the standards@: folk are the ones we really need - the broader XMPP community.
  355. ralphm I suggest we set up a wiki page like we did for FOSDEM/Summit and have people sign up there
  356. stpeter oh I don't think it would be good to post about this to the xmpp@ietf.org list
  357. ralphm dwd: yes. I was already in favor, though.
  358. stpeter that would seem strange to IETF folk
  359. ralphm stpeter: ok
  360. bear what is the name of the ietf meeting - XMPP_WG?
  361. stpeter IETF 89 - we care about the XMPP Working Group session, but there are other sessions on that day, too
  362. stpeter http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/index.html
  363. bear creates IETF_89 wiki page
  364. stpeter the agenda is at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda.html
  365. dwd An alternate way of doing this would be to agree a budget for sponsoring people to attend.
  366. Lloyd has left
  367. dwd That is, how much are we willing to spend on this?
  368. ralphm I note that the cut-off date for hotel reservations is in 3 days
  369. dwd ralphm, Yeah, but I sort of assumed I'd not be able to afford the hotel. :-)
  370. ralphm dwd: sure, but people might want to know
  371. dwd ralphm, We could arrange an XMPP hotel, as it were.
  372. stpeter is staying at a much cheaper hotel nearby
  373. ralphm nod
  374. stpeter the IETF conference hotel is always hugely expensive
  375. Simon Do we have a treasurer avaliable?
  376. stpeter we don't have a treasurer, only me
  377. Simon Can you give an indication of the current balance?
  378. Laura I can try and help to find cheap hotels if needed
  379. dwd Simon, It's roughly $16k, as I recall, with approximately $1k committed.
  380. stpeter we have $16,866.37 in the bank, before reimbursing people for FOSDEM
  381. dwd Damn, I was almost 1k out.
  382. Simon ok.
  383. ralphm Ok, people, I have to leave the meeting early. I'll vote later.
  384. Simon I need to leave soon too.
  385. Simon Can we agree for someone to take an action on this and move on please?
  386. dwd Simon, What action would we like, though?
  387. Simon imho that next step needs to be to come up with some options.
  388. bear the option on the table is do we offer to cover the day pass to those who ask
  389. dwd Simon, I'm good with polling standards@ to gauge interest, and/or deciding on a budget for this.
  390. Simon who, how much and exactly what they will be doing on the XSF's behalf.
  391. stpeter sends a sample sponsorship invoice to the board@ list
  392. bear I will create a wiki page, send an email to member@ and standards@ asking people to sign up
  393. dwd Simon, Participation in the IETF is, like participation in the XSF's STandards SIG, purely individual.
  394. bear after getting that data we can then discuss what the cost will be
  395. Simon dwd: if it's purely individual then why the XSF involvement?
  396. stpeter @bear seems reasonable
  397. bear because, IMO, we should help folks attend who may not have companies behind them to help increase the XSF's visibility to outside groups
  398. stpeter Simon: because we need to finish our deliverables in the XMPP WG at the IETF and if getting more people with clue involved will push us over the line, that's great for XMPP in general
  399. dwd stpeter, Right, that.
  400. Simon IMHO this should be effort driven not budget driven - what's the WG trying to achieve, who needs to be there, then who can't be there becasue of costs.
  401. ralphm I'd be amazed if more than 7 people would apply for this.
  402. stpeter ralphm: agreed
  403. ralphm and I'd support that
  404. stpeter I would forecast maybe 5 people
  405. Simon stpeter - thanks. I was missing that part.
  406. ralphm so were around the 2k mark there
  407. ralphm we're
  408. bear k, let me get the wiki page up and start beating the bushes for people who will be attending
  409. bear then we can have some data to discuss next time
  410. stpeter ralphm: I'd expect so, yes
  411. stpeter bear: WFM
  412. bear k, anything else to add or discuss?
  413. Simon +1 for next topic.
  414. bear that was the last topic
  415. dwd There are people who wouldn't because of the other costs involved; I think we should be prepared to consider further bursaries as needed, but we can deal with that later.
  416. dwd [16:30:27] dwd: Yeah, could we try and enumerate all the things we said we'd put off until after FOSDEM? [16:31:10] dwd: Also, FOSDEM renumeration etc.
  417. dwd We can put off the first until next meeting. :-)
  418. bear I will take it as a task to prepare that list for next meeting
  419. Kev I think bursaries for a select few people who can usefully contribute would be quite sensible. More so than offering entrance fees for everyone, probably.
  420. bear and have the agenda in hand before
  421. Simon +1 Kev.
  422. stpeter nods to Kev
  423. dwd The second, though, I just need an invoice form - stpeter, I think you were going to send a sample to the board@?
  424. stpeter dwd: I just sent that
  425. stpeter a few minutes ago
  426. bear dwd - are you handling the invoice generation?
  427. dwd bear, Just this once. I'd rather not end up being the treasurer. :-)
  428. bear anyone have anything else to discuss?
  429. Simon Last minute addition: Unless there's any other business, I'd like to mention the need for some kind of Tweet action and see if we can rustle up @XMPP or @XSF or something appropriate for the XSF to use to promote ourselves on Twitter.
  430. Simon I tried reaching out to the owners of those accounts but didn't hear back.
  431. Simon Unless anyone objects, I'll ping some friends who work at twitter and see if they can put me in touch with someone that handles dormant accounts.
  432. Laura Sounds good! I would really support this
  433. bear +1 simon
  434. Laura And will help Simon
  435. Simon ok - leave it with me.
  436. Simon I'll report on progress next week
  437. ralphm +1
  438. bear anything else?
  439. Laura Not here
  440. ralphm Don't forget your members vote
  441. bear dwd, ralphm?
  442. dwd Nothing more from me.
  443. stpeter we could easily register xmppfoundation at Twitter etc.
  444. stpeter that at least is available
  445. bear i'll register that now
  446. stpeter ok
  447. bear ok, calling this meeting done - i'll get minutes up tonight
  448. ralphm stpeter: that's a smart thing to do, and makes it possible to transition over to another one when it comes available
  449. bear bangs gavel
  450. stpeter ralphm: yep
  451. bear thanks everyone for a great meeting and discussion!
  452. Laura *waves*
  453. ralphm date of next: +1W
  454. stpeter Laura: I will review your ISOC blog post right now!!!
  455. Laura stpeter: thank you!
  456. bear twitter.com/xmppfoundation registered
  457. m&m has left
  458. Kev has left
  459. bear wiki page created (but it is very empty - I ran out of words)
  460. bear email sent to members@ asking people to register on wikipage
  461. ralphm bear: lorem ipsum
  462. bear :)
  463. Kev has joined
  464. Tobias has joined
  465. Tobias has joined
  466. stpeter OK I updaed http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/IETF_89 a bit
  467. bear :)
  468. bear thanks peter
  469. stpeter gets back to his real job :-)
  470. Tobias has joined
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  475. bear has joined
  476. Ash has left
  477. bear pushes "publish" on ISoc blog post
  478. fippo oh... thanks whoever fixed the voxeo logo btw
  479. Laura has left
  480. ralphm stpeter: what? This is still isn't your real job?
  481. bear for the life of me I cannot figure out how to get the main page side bar to update
  482. bear curses wordpress in 3 languages
  483. ralphm Verdomme!
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  485. ralphm bear: ^, thought I'd help you
  486. bear curses wordpress in *4* languages
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