-
fippo
lloyd: https://twitter.com/disruptivedean/status/436063951932379136 -- you should make him happy by showing webrtc in xmpp-ftw (-:
-
Tobias
berling ^^is that our capitol's asian outpost?
-
intosi
FOSDEM 2005, and a beer event at Le Roy d'Espagne. Those were the days ;)
-
fippo
erm... is openfire seriously asking for ?username=null&password=null&resource=xmpp for websocket connections? i've read the source but...
-
Zash
Eh, wat
-
fippo
you specify as ws://yourserverhere:7070/ws/server?user=null&password=null&resource=foo uri
-
fippo
and the source has if (username.equals("null") && password.equals("null")) // anonymous user
-
simon
Has anyone done any thinking about storing read/unread message states or read-up-to-<messageID>? Would this be something added to MAM?
-
simon
Kev - I think you mentioned having done some thinking about this.
-
Ash
I think there was some talk about this on the mailing list recently...
-
simon
I'll check the archives. I know there was talk of needing this during the Summit.
-
Kev
Lance and I discussed this outside the lift in the Aloft.
-
simon
pity you were only on the first floor Kev.
-
simon
Kev: is this an addition to mam or new spec?
-
Kev
Anyway. I think there's a little jiggling to go on.
-
simon
Is that a technical term?
-
Kev
In as much as what happens is that you use carbons + the MAM id (which answers my question about whether it's useful) + the 'reset' that we discussed in terms of the push spec.
-
Kev
The reset gets relayed to all your clients because of carbons, and boom. Everyone knows everything's read.
-
simon
Doesn't that makes the assumption that one is using push?
-
simon
for example, it would be nice to have a webclient that, when you log in again, shows you an unread counter for posts newer than <last time you logged in>.
-
Kev
simon: It makes the assumption that we define the 'reset' outside the push framework.
-
simon
Kev: if I understand you correctly it's a "I've read all messages from this user/pub-sub node/mam-able feed". I thik we're looking for something a little more granular (but not called IMAP).
-
simon
as in I've read up to this point.
-
simon
I'll write up the problem to the list if that makes it clearer.
-
Kev
It's I've read everything up to point X in my stream (and therefore in your streams too, because of carbons, as far as chat messages are concerned).
-
simon
that sound exactly like what we want for each channel: A client can push back a read-to-this-point to the server. Next time they log in, the client can show you that you have n unread posts. What's the next step for speccing this?
-
ralphm
simon: I once thought up a way to implement notifications like on android devices. Every notification is a pubsub item. You can retract them. Done.
-
simon
ralphm: true. I'm pleased that we discussed the need to retract push requests at the Summit - something that could have been overlooked easily.
-
ralphm
I think I like how it works. Pushes yield notifications and retractions do as well.
-
dwd
ICMP_ECHO_REQUEST
-
fippo
ICMP_ECHO_REPLY
-
dwd
RESPONSE, I thought. But I was hoping for some fellow Board people to respond. :-)
-
Zash
0x0303
-
dwd
Zash, yeah, I can't even be bothered to look up the ICMP type.
-
dwd
So I think it's Board Time. Isn't it?
-
Laura
Hi all
- simon waves
-
dwd
ralphm, Ping?
-
Laura
Testing testing
-
dwd
Laura, Works.
-
Laura
Thanks! Had issues connecting
-
dwd
We'll give it 5 to see if ralphm or bear show up.
-
Laura
cool
-
ralphm
here
-
dwd
ralphm, I'm assuming you'll act as Chairman?
- dwd grabs his lunch quickly.
-
dwd
Wasn't expecting my lunch to arrive at 11:30. :/
-
ralphm
Sure
-
ralphm
0. Opening
-
ralphm
Welcome (almost) all!
-
ralphm
Agenda items?
-
simon
1. AOB
-
ralphm
simon: don't do that
-
simon
No other agenda items.
-
Kev
GSoC?
-
ralphm
Kev: ok
-
simon
Ah yes.
-
Kev
ralphm: Now?
-
ralphm
Kev: not yet
-
ralphm
simon, Laura, anything to report re. website?
-
ralphm
(yes or no is fine at this point)
-
ralphm
dwd: any items you'd like to add?
-
Laura
No updates as yet. Planning on having something to show next week (not images but the outline plan)
-
simon
ralphm: unfortunatley not.
-
Laura
Sorry
-
ralphm
that's fine
-
dwd
I don't think I've much.
-
ralphm
ok
-
dwd
FOSDEM finances, I suppose.
-
simon
laura: we really need to get back on that website horse.
-
Laura
Simon: I will drop you a message
-
ralphm
1. GSOC
-
Kev
This is supershort.
-
ralphm
Kev: you have a report?
-
Kev
The XSF didn't apply for GSoC.
-
Kev
At the time of the application deadline, none of the ideas on the page were complete enough.
-
Kev
That is all.
-
dwd
Kev, Thanks for your efforts here.
-
Laura
Were you disappointed?
-
fippo
i've heard jitsi applied... not sure why they didn't try it under the XSF umbrella for related stuff (@emcho)
-
Kev
Yeah, I think GSoC's a great thing to do. But I don't have time this year to commit to mentoring any Swift projects, so I can't point much finger of blame at anyone else for not having time either.
-
Laura
Maybe one for us to bring to the agenda earlier next yeat? More time to prepare?
-
Kev
And while we could have tried our luck with the page as-is, both Bear and I felt that putting in a sub-par submission was the Wrong Thing to do.
-
Laura
Agree
-
ralphm
fippo: well, jitsi usually applies for themselves
-
ralphm
same for FOSDEM
-
ralphm
also, XMPP is not all they do
-
Kev
Laura: It needs someone to act as chief cat-herder to get the project ideas in shape. In previous years I've done this, and I think when Bear volunteered to be org admin, he hadn't quite twigged the amount of effort it takes to cat-herd behind the scenes.
-
ralphm
Kev: thanks for your efforts, anyway
-
fippo
ralphm: they're coming closer (-:
-
ralphm
fippo: but hey, maybe you can heard projects for 2015?
-
Laura
Got it
-
Kev
So it ended up being a case of seeing if projects would get their ideas in gear themselves, and that didn't happen.
-
Kev
But yes, starting earlier next year, and coming up with some 'Your ideas must look like this as a minimum' would help.
-
Kev
Anyway, I think I'm done for this item.
-
Kev
Thanks.
-
dwd
Kev, Could the XSF make this easier for next year, by ensuring there's a communications channel to open source project leads or something?
-
Laura
Maybe a template or something.
-
Laura
To help identify what we need to support it through
-
Kev
dwd: Yes, this has been me in recent previous years.
-
dwd
Kev, Right, which is not ideal, especially for you.
-
Kev
That is - the org admin (or someone similar) needs to essentially chase down every project that might contribute ideas, and arm-twist them to do so (or not participate), and then chase them down to make sure all the ideas are in order.
-
Kev
I actually like doing the org admin role, I think GSoC's a great thing to support, but ... not this year.
-
dwd
Right, I was wondering if it'd be easier if all the project leads were on a single mailing list or something.
-
Kev
In my experience, it takes direct 1:1 chasing.
-
dwd
OK.
-
Kev
Not that people need chasing because they don't want to participate, but people need reminding. A lot :)
-
ralphm
Kev: what would be a good time to start for 2015?
-
Kev
I think starting in November/December is sensible. If we had a cheat-sheet for writing project ideas (I'm sure we've had this in previous years) available by the end of the year, that should be enough time for people.
-
simon
Do you think it would be good to have some examples of successful project applications so that projects know how much detail they need to go into?
-
Kev
Assuming GSoC2015 happens, which is never a given until it's announced, etc. etc.
-
Laura
That is always a winner
-
Laura
Makes it seem less dautning if you know what 'good' looks like
-
Kev
simon: I think we've had a template in previous years, yes.
-
Kev
Although we learn each year a little bit more about what's good - both from our own, and from the chats that we (by which I mean I) have with the other orgs participating.
-
simon
Template is one thing, but pointing at a successful project might also be good. Anyway. I think we're all a little overloaded this year and have more than enough to be getting on with, without GSOC too.
-
Kev
Rigt.
-
Kev
Right.
-
ralphm
Kev: I'd be very surprised if there wouldn't be one in 2015
-
Kev
ralphm: As would I. But it's not a given.
-
ralphm
Sure, but would time spent on it be wasted?
-
Kev
Yes.
-
Kev
But I think it's likely enough to go ahead anyway.
-
dwd
Kev, Were there are project submissions that seemed particularly worthwhile?
-
Kev
dwd: Yes, the BC and IoT ones - they just lacked some of the bits they needed.
-
dwd
OK. I'm wondering if these things would generally benefit the XSF and the XMPP community sufficiently to warrant us putting some money that way. But this is just a thought to float about rather than something we should debate right now.
-
Kev
I think we could agendaise that for another time when there's longer to discuss :)
-
dwd
Right.
-
ralphm
all right then
-
ralphm
2. FOSDEM/Summit finances
-
dwd
Just a note that due to travelling and generally being rubbish, I've not sorted out invoicing, and won't have managed to before next week at least.
-
dwd
ralphm, If you want to accelerate *your* reimbursement, I can give you the revelant details to have Isode pay you direct as we discussed.
-
ralphm
dwd: sure. I have to scan my receipts, too
-
dwd
ralphm, You'd just need to write an invoice. I'm not going to get a chance before Tuesday at the vert earliest.
-
ralphm
dwd: that's fine
-
ralphm
3. AOB
-
ralphm
I wanted to ask about our communications in general
-
ralphm
Once upon a time, we had a Communication Team.
-
simon
Quick reminder to fire up your TLS engines running on Saturday for the second Security Test Day.
-
ralphm
It seems at least some of the functions are done by Simon and Laura now.
-
ralphm
But it is unclear to me who is responsible for our "social networking" outlets.
-
simon
ralphm: yes. I'd like to do more.
-
ralphm
Bear has registered this twitter account last week
-
dwd
ralphm, Yes, this is true. I think it's important to recognise that we have both internal and external communications to consider.
-
simon
ralphm: which one?
-
ralphm
but Neustradamus, who used to be on that team, has access to facebook pages and what not
-
Laura
Agreed. I would really like to know a) history of comms and b) what is happening now?
-
ralphm
apparently he has communicated this with (former) board members at some point
-
simon
Neustradamus is very keen to help btw.
-
ralphm
http://xmpp.org/participate/become-a-member/the-xsf-communication-team/
-
ralphm
This is our description of its functions.
-
dwd
Laura, What's happening now is more or less whatever you and simon are doing.
-
Laura
So not much then.
-
Laura
I want to know more for the website work I am doing
-
Laura
More engaging, less secret chats etc
-
ralphm
I am not interested in the volume of of communications for this discussion, but rather it being a concerted effort
-
Laura
Let me put some thoughts together and share with Board?
-
Laura
For initial discussion
-
ralphm
And, if you need help, you may wish to fire up the above team at some point.
-
simon
Laura: sounds good.
-
Laura
Leave it with me. Will have this with you on Friday/
-
ralphm
Laura: cool. Be sure to check out that link I pasted above.
-
dwd
Laura, I'd be perfectly happy if you want to just take it over, to be honest.
-
ralphm
hi bear
-
Laura
Will do, and Dave my thinking is along those lines
-
ralphm
We're almost done here.
-
dwd
Laura, What I know about proper internal/external communications could be written on a postage stamp. I think you're the domain expert here.
-
bear
hello - sorry for being late
-
ralphm
bear: do you have anything you'd like to discuss?
-
Laura
I can't contribute much technically, but marketing is what I do
-
Laura
It is my job so I should be!
-
bear
no, just to add that i'm still working on getting a list of tasks that were deferred
-
ralphm
Lance: perfect
-
ralphm
Laura: perfect
-
ralphm
(but you are great, too Lance)
-
ralphm
bear: ack
-
ralphm
Any other any other business?
-
ralphm
4. Time of Next +1W 5. Close Thanks, all!
- ralphm bangs gavel
-
Laura
Bye!
-
bear
laura, dwd - if you want to discuss GSoC and how it (doesn't) work I can do that at any time
-
ralphm
bear: what about half an hour ago?
-
bear
half hour ago I was outside tryiing to keep the blocked storm drain from flooding my basement :/
-
Laura
Oh thanks Bear!
-
ralphm
bear: but you said "any time"
-
bear
I just wanted to point out that a lot of what they mentioned had been done - but it's like what Kev said, it requires a lot of cat herding
- bear throws something at ralphm
-
ralphm
bear: I'm sorry. Flooding sucks.
-
bear
no worries, I knew you were joking about "any time"
-
bear
i'm just cold, wet and flustered at almost everything right now
-
ralphm
bear: after initial refusal, some Dutch engineers have finally been taken up on their offer to help out with the floods in SW England
-
dwd
Oh, hey. I realised we've not discussed the IETF thing at all.
-
ralphm
they came in with 30 trucks of pumps
-
bear
you think the UK would gladly accept Dutch engineers given their experience with keeping whole cities from flooding
-
dwd
ralphm, FWIW, there's been artificial drainage there for over a thousand years.
-
ralphm
and had to stop pumping, because they pumped too fast
-
dwd
ralphm, Most of the rivers there are actually artifical drainage channels.
-
dwd
So this IETF thing - where was that Wiki page bear did?
-
ralphm
dwd: yes, but it seems kinda silly to refuse help for weeks
-
bear
http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/IETF_89
-
Zash
So this meetup thing
-
Kev
bear: I suspect "The UK" as a whole would gladly do so.
-
Kev
I don't think it was exactly a country-wide decision not to have help with the flooding.
-
Kev
(Or, indeed, that it was generally known that help had been offered and refused, until much later)
-
bear
ah - US centric thinking - for us it's often the federal government who handled emergency items like that
-
dwd
bear, So my take is that all those people would be funded by their employers, most likely.
-
Kev
bear: Yes, it was the central government that refused the help, as I understand it. Just that I suspect this wasn't a decision that would have been supported by much of the population.
-
bear
yes, so far everyone who has ssigned up seem to be corp backed
-
dwd
bear, Central Government, yes. The whole of the UK, no. Also, I doubt the dutch engineers where offering for free. :-)
-
ralphm
Kev: from what I heard, Cameron himself had refused
-
Kev
As there are people going who have never attended IETF stuff before, and given people need catherding, as previously mentioned, it might be helpful for someone to send out a mail to the list with what needs doing for those attending.
-
ralphm
dwd: I wonder how costs weigh up against damages
-
Kev
ralphm: Yes, I'm not sure if you're implying that as evidence For it being widely supported or Against it.
-
Kev
dwd: No, I imagine not.
-
bear
kev - i did send a list
-
Kev
Ahhar.
-
bear
err an email to the list
-
ralphm
Kev: I haven't looked for a credible source
-
ralphm
(Channel 4 isn't, as far as I know)
-
Kev
ralphm: I was implying that Cameron and the Will Of The People might not always be completely in step :)
-
ralphm
might always not be <= fixed that for you
-
Kev
bear: If you meant your "IETF 89 and the XMPP WG meeting - are you going?" mail, I was thinking of something a little more prescriptive
-
bear
ah
-
Kev
But I seem to be the only person attending who probably hasn't been before, looking at the list on the wiki, so ignore.
-
Kev
I thought there might be a wider audience.
-
bear
so did I
-
bear
the push back last week, in my understanding of it, was to avoid actively stating that people who wanted to attend could get daypass covered by us
-
bear
so I avoided any direct wordage
-
dwd
Right, which, I suspect, means that a lot of people will have been put off.
-
dwd
That said, xnyhps - you're coming, right?
-
xnyhps
Yes. I was just thinking that it's about time I'd get myself a wiki account. :)
- dwd sighs
-
dwd
The other WGs that are relevant to us are UTA and DANE, both (I think) on Friday.
-
dwd
It'd be very useful to get Zash there, IMHO. He's done more implementation of this kind of thing than anyone else in the community, I think.
-
Zash
.
-
dwd
xnyhps, Are you there for the whole week as well?
-
xnyhps
No, I'm leaving on wednesday.
-
xnyhps
Shame to miss the DANE meeting, but to stay two extra days just to wait for that...
-
dwd
xnyhps, UTA as well, which Alexey pointed out to me.
-
xnyhps
True
-
dwd
To my shame, I hadn't noticed UTA. :-)
-
dwd
I'm assuming perpass is also signficant to us as a community; I've no clue at all when that's meeting.
-
Kev
UTA?
-
dwd
Kev, Alexey said it was something to do with TLS usage in applications protocols, most specifically email and XMPP.
-
dwd
Kev, Think RFC 6125, basically.
-
Kev
Ah.
-
stpeter
calendaring fail
-
stpeter
will read the logs
-
Zash
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/uta/
-
stpeter
bbiab
-
dwd
Oh! ISOC members seem to get into the IETF on Tuesday 4th March for free.
-
fippo
and being an ISOC member is a good thing anyway
-
fippo
which reminds me...
-
stpeter
dwd: really? I hadn't known that - but it's easy to become an ISOC member :-)
-
dwd
stpeter, Right, I am already. I think this may only be "local chapters". Which I'm technically not in, though I'm in the England one for convenience.
-
stpeter
yes, I'm in my local chapter as well (Colorado)
-
dwd
Might have to do that one. I qualify for both a WG Chair dot *and* a personal mentor to show me aroound, which is fun.
-
ralphm
$19b. much.
-
Zash
for a broken xmpp implementation and a gazillion users
-
ralphm
... that already are on facebook using XMPP
-
intosi
… for which they now have a very nice network graph based on phone numbers.
-
Tobias
yeah...those centralized folks have it easy in that regard :) don't have to care about privacy an all
-
Tobias
must be living the dream
-
ralphm
I don't think they didn't already have that
-
ralphm
Tobias: yeah
-
Zash
:|
-
intosi
They now have a lot more phone numbers. And can probably correlate numbers based on the graphs for users that stubbornly didn't provide their numbers to Facebook yet
-
Zash
... like me
-
intosi
… and me.
-
ralphm
intosi: i.e. 99% of fb users has already uploaded their addressbook
-
intosi
That's unfortunately very much true.
-
ralphm
so, they gained. um. groupchat?
-
intosi
FB already had that.
-
ralphm
not as persistent rooms
-
intosi
Close enough that end-users don't see the difference.
-
intosi
At least, 99% of all end-users.
-
ralphm
no, this is actually hard in facebook's app
-
Santiago26
ralphm: Not sure if WhatsApp is only XMPP without federation, it should partially contain HTTP also.