Wednesday, February 26, 2014
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
February
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
          1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
   
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:00:42] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[00:23:00] *** emcho has left the room
[00:23:00] *** emcho has joined the room
[00:35:08] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:38:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:39:09] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:43:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:44:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:48:19] *** Link Mauve shows as "xa"
[00:53:18] *** Lance has joined the room
[00:53:18] *** Lance shows as "online"
[00:53:35] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[01:55:42] *** stpeter has joined the room
[02:18:21] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[02:20:55] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[02:23:45] *** Lance shows as "away"
[02:27:49] *** Lance shows as "online"
[03:08:19] *** stpeter has left the room
[04:36:59] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[04:53:05] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:05:13] *** Lance shows as "away"
[05:54:37] *** Lance has left the room
[06:16:23] *** Alex has joined the room
[06:20:39] *** Lance has joined the room
[06:20:39] *** Lance shows as "online"
[06:25:38] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:27:43] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:52:06] *** Lance shows as "away"
[06:54:55] *** Lance shows as "online"
[07:17:36] *** Lance shows as "away"
[07:21:46] *** Lance shows as "online"
[07:23:03] *** intosi shows as "online"
[07:28:24] *** Simon has joined the room
[07:28:24] *** Simon shows as "online"
[07:31:04] *** Kev shows as "online"
[07:31:20] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:31:20] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:32:32] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:37:35] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:41:35] *** Tobias has joined the room
[07:41:36] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:42:38] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:44:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:52:07] *** emcho has left the room
[07:53:39] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:57:22] *** Simon has joined the room
[07:57:22] *** Simon shows as "online"
[07:57:31] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:00:54] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[08:00:54] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[08:02:03] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:02:03] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:02:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:03:39] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:07:36] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:10:12] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[08:12:39] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:12:58] *** Alex shows as "online"
[08:16:37] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[08:16:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[08:17:42] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:22:45] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:24:04] *** Simon has left the room
[08:25:30] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[08:26:50] *** emcho has joined the room
[08:27:19] *** dwd has joined the room
[08:36:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[08:40:32] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[08:40:36] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[08:40:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[08:47:51] *** Simon has joined the room
[08:47:51] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:50:31] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:52:07] *** Lloyd has joined the room
[08:55:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[08:57:15] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:00:36] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:00:56] *** Simon has left the room
[09:01:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[09:02:23] *** Simon has joined the room
[09:02:23] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:02:24] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:04:24] <dwd> fippo, I am. I'm hoping he'll snap and "interview" one of us.
[09:04:42] *** Link Mauve shows as "online"
[09:07:01] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:08:00] <Kev> Whowherewhat?
[09:08:33] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[09:08:44] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:08:44] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:11:00] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:11:01] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:12:04] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:14:33] <dwd> Tsahi's blog, http://bloggeek.me
[09:15:08] <dwd> He comes out with stuff like "I am not a fan of XMPP to say the least, but I don’t really have anything bad to say about this approach."
[09:15:16] <dwd> That's the most positive thing he's yet said.
[09:17:06] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:17:24] <ralphm> dwd: for what it's worth, I found his posts reasonably low on signal
[09:17:59] <ralphm> Like the new one talking about 'SaaS'.
[09:18:26] <dwd> ralphm, Yes, they often are, but I'd like to have his low-grade mumblings also mention XMPP positively.
[09:21:25] <fippo> ralphm: the analiysis of signalling protocol completly misses some important facts
[09:21:45] <fippo> like: "you typically use sip because then you can use webrtcs sdp thing -- but note that webrtc sdp != sdp"
[09:22:00] <fippo> or: "jingle doesnt use sdp, webrtc does so you need a transformation"
[09:22:09] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:22:23] <fippo> but i dont want to generate content on his blog (-:
[09:22:48] <Lance> for those interested, I have a first, very rough, draft for the new push xep ready here: https://github.com/legastero/customxeps/blob/gh-pages/extensions/push.md
[09:23:25] <Lance> comments welcome. tomorrow i'll xep-ify it and add in all of the formalities
[09:23:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:24:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:25:50] <dwd> Lance, If you are a client developer, and I can register with your client backend, can I construct some form of attack (on you, or on your client-users)?
[09:26:04] <dwd> Lance, Also, it *is* tomorrow. Even for you. :-)
[09:26:05] <Simon> Lance - Looks like what we chatted about at the Summit. I'll point Abmar to it as well. (for easy XEP-ing, I can recommend Lloyd's Github+Travis XEP workflow. - https://github.com/buddycloud/buddycloud-xep)
[09:27:12] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:27:54] *Lance checks clock
[09:27:58] <Lance> heh, so it is
[09:30:10] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:30:39] <Lance> dwd: doing the registration via xmpp is nice as proof-of-ownership for a jid, so i can associate a device id with user jid
[09:31:11] <Lance> the main attack against me would be injecting someone elses device id
[09:32:15] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:33:55] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:35:31] <ralphm> dwd: sure thing, I've been telling people they are wrong on the internet by tracking http://display.ik.nu/xmpp
[09:37:17] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:42:21] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:43:55] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:47:24] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:49:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[09:50:59] <dwd> Lance, Yeah, but could I flood your push service with a slew of fake registrations from dummy accounts?
[09:52:27] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:53:21] <Lance> sure. just like you can ddos anything else. thats a problem every mobile app developer that uses accounts has to deal with
[09:54:15] <dwd> I wonder if there's a reasonable way of mitigating that.
[09:54:30] <dwd> In any case, don't take this as in any way blocking.
[09:57:30] *** Simon shows as "online"
[09:59:33] <ralphm> dwd: eg. https://twitter.com/mike10010100/status/438353086978211840
[09:59:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[10:02:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:07:36] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:11:05] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[10:12:39] *** Alex shows as "online"
[10:12:39] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:15:54] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:16:54] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:17:42] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:18:12] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:18:12] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:18:17] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[10:18:24] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:18:24] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:20:36] <dwd> So, sponsorship - as I read things, Silver gets a logo, but no text, on the sponsors page, right?
[10:22:45] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:24:03] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[10:26:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:27:15] <ralphm> dwd: yes
[10:27:24] <ralphm> the table seems pretty clear to me
[10:27:48] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:30:19] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:32:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:32:51] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:32:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:33:11] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[10:33:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:34:33] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:36:16] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[10:37:54] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:38:13] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:38:13] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:39:27] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[10:42:25] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:42:25] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:42:56] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:46:21] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[10:47:59] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:52:00] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:52:00] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:52:02] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:52:02] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:53:03] *** Simon shows as "online"
[10:55:17] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:58:06] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:03:08] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:04:29] *** xnyhps has left the room
[11:04:41] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[11:08:12] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:08:13] <dwd> Joachim makes a good point. One for the agenda this afternoon.
[11:08:19] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:13:15] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:14:54] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:14:57] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:14:57] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:15:21] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:15:22] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:18:19] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:19:47] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:20:05] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[11:21:11] *** Kev shows as "online"
[11:22:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:23:21] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:24:54] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:25:12] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:26:37] <fippo> hey lloyd, you could have told me about @decentcamp :-)
[11:26:40] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:28:03] <Lloyd> How do you know I know :) Sorry. I think they only announced on Monday
[11:28:24] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:29:16] <fippo> twitter tells me you follow them as well
[11:29:52] <Lloyd> ahh :) Its a good location for visiting the girlfriend's family too.
[11:30:25] <Lloyd> For everyone else: http://decentralizecamp.com/ - have submitted to talk about XMPP
[11:30:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:30:52] <Lloyd> fippo maybe you could talk about webrtc but sneak a whole bunch of webrtc in ;)
[11:30:59] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[11:30:59] <Lloyd> second webrtc == xmpp, D'Oh!
[11:32:09] <fippo> yeah, even though a pure xmpp one might be good as well... "why decentralization is hard -- 15 years xmpp"
[11:33:27] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:34:59] *** Link Mauve shows as "xa"
[11:36:11] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:38:30] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:38:54] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:40:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:41:13] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[11:43:33] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:43:49] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:45:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:46:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:48:36] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:49:13] <ralphm> oh, that's interesting
[11:49:27] <ralphm> also 2 days after open discussion day
[11:49:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:51:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:51:52] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[11:52:51] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:53:39] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:53:54] <Simon> talk proposals also submitted - this should be fun :)
[11:54:41] <fippo> haha
[11:55:38] <Lloyd> I think with all the submissions there'll be at least one XMPP session :)
[11:56:49] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:57:31] *** Lance has joined the room
[11:57:31] *** Lance shows as "online"
[11:58:42] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:59:51] <dwd> Decentralize! Own the web! Follow us on Twitter!
[12:00:18] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:00:18] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:00:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:00:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:00:59] <Lloyd> Oh the ironing ;)
[12:01:34] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:01:34] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:01:59] <Kev> In the sense of lacking Irony.
[12:02:18] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:02:18] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:03:45] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:04:25] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:04:25] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:06:04] *** Ash has joined the room
[12:08:48] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:09:17] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[12:09:32] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:09:32] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:10:49] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:10:49] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:11:37] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:13:26] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:13:26] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:13:51] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:16:23] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:16:38] *** Simon has left the room
[12:17:34] *** Simon has joined the room
[12:17:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:19:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[12:20:11] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:20:58] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:21:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:22:28] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:22:28] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:23:56] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:23:56] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:24:19] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:24:19] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:26:01] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:26:27] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[12:28:33] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:28:33] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:30:29] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:31:04] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:33:27] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[12:35:12] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:35:12] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:35:33] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[12:35:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:35:34] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:35:41] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:35:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:36:06] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:37:32] <dwd> Right. So I've done a pass over XEP-0001. The main changes I'm proposing (aside from some linguistic hoops) are:
1) Removed the timeout for Council [now Approving Body] objections - this is now a timeout for the Approving Body Chair to poll the members of the Approving Body. The timeout for objections is then stipulated as being up to the Chair.
2) Switched the Approving Body for Humorous XEPs to being the Editor; I think this is how it's actually been for some years anyway.
[12:37:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:38:16] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:38:25] <dwd> So the change in (1) now means that a ProtoXEP will go up before the Council within 14 days, rather than objections must be filed within 14 days. Again, I think this matches what actually happens.
[12:38:57] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[12:39:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:39:52] <dwd> Oh, note I've also removed the stipulation for "the next meeting", so the Council Chair could punt a submission on Wednesday morning to the next meeting within the process; I'm not sure that's ever happened, actually, but it was easier to frame the text that way.
[12:41:09] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:43:25] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:44:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:46:12] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:46:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:47:29] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:49:55] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[12:50:25] <fippo> i do wonder whether we should hold council meetings on april 1st where those xeps are discussed....
[12:51:15] *** Simon shows as "online"
[12:51:26] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:51:54] *** Simon has left the room
[12:52:14] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:53:07] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:53:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:55:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:58:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:58:42] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:59:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:59:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:59:55] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of being idle"
[13:00:51] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:04:50] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:08:14] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:08:17] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:09:02] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[13:09:03] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[13:13:39] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[13:19:32] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:21:58] *** Zash has joined the room
[13:23:06] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:23:06] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:25:01] <dwd> There, sent to the list.
[13:26:21] *** Alex shows as "online"
[13:31:35] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:31:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:32:04] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:32:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:32:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:34:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:34:42] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:34:45] *** Sy has joined the room
[13:34:45] *** Lloyd shows as "online"
[13:35:35] <intosi> dwd: thanks.
[13:36:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:36:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:38:04] *** Lloyd shows as "online"
[13:38:35] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:40:12] *** Sy has left the room
[13:41:41] <intosi> dwd: you forgot to mention the Humorous XEPs in <section1 topic='Publication Process' anchor='publication'> para 1.
[13:42:04] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:45:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:46:25] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[13:46:54] <dwd> Ah, yes, I forgot to add it.
[13:48:05] <dwd> I'd actually only changed that para to titlecase Approving Body since it's now a Thing.
[13:48:56] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[13:49:22] <Zash> A captital-T Thing?
[13:50:09] <dwd> Right. It's a Term, technically.
[13:50:34] <Zash> a Term Thing
[13:57:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:58:42] <dwd> So scanning for similar cases, I see there's no provision for modifying Humorous XEPs. It's also not clear if we can deprecate and obsolete them.
[13:58:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:58:51] <dwd> I don't think I care.
[14:00:14] *** Simon has joined the room
[14:00:14] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:01:31] <Simon> If I got €1 for every person contacting me about switching to Threema… Now imagine if there was a service that let you send messages to friends over securely.
[14:02:07] <Zash> !define Threema
[14:02:30] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:02:50] <Simon> It's a swiss service that seems to be benefitting from the WhatsApp = Facebook effect.
[14:02:51] <Zash> Oh, no HAL
[14:05:08] <Zash> I've seen Telegram mentioned in a few places too :(
[14:06:21] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:06:40] <dwd> It might actually be worth pushing XMPP in this light.
[14:06:58] <dwd> That is, putting together some copy etc to specifically target this market.
[14:07:13] <Tobias> what do you mean with copy?
[14:07:33] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:07:38] <fippo> dwd: the old problem is that XMPP is a protocol, not a product. and those services offer a product
[14:07:39] <dwd> "copy" as in text etc.
[14:07:45] <dwd> fippo, Yes, indeed.
[14:08:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:08:07] *Simon thinks it's worth us getting our push spec in order before pushing XMPP on mobile to end users.
[14:08:10] <dwd> fippo, There's an argument here for some productizing effort. But that loops back to testing, compliance suites, etc.
[14:08:33] <dwd> Simon, I sympathize with that, certainly, but there is *always* one more thing.
[14:08:43] <Zash> This market segment is probably going to care about e2e crypto
[14:08:52] <Zash> Regardless of if it's actually secure
[14:08:59] <fippo> dwd: yes, but that costs money. which you only have if you market a product (-:
[14:09:10] <Simon> dwd: indeed. But the people that have been asking me about Threema will not be running the current crop of XMPP clients willingly.
[14:09:12] <Zash> dwd: Allways.
[14:09:19] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:09:28] <Zash> dwd: And that thing is the most important one!
[14:09:34] *Simon nods to Ge0rG et al and their great work to get things more usable.
[14:09:41] <Zash> Can't switch to XMPP unless it has that one thing!
[14:10:14] <dwd> Zash, Right.
[14:10:37] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:10:51] <dwd> Zash, FWIW, Mark Crispin used to complain that the IMAP world was full of these things without which IMAP would inevitably fail.
[14:11:04] <dwd> Zash, Yet whichever ones were left out, it still did the same.
[14:11:41] <Zash> In the end, it's only network effect that counts.
[14:12:01] <dwd> Zash, That's certainly the most important factor.
[14:12:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:12:08] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:12:23] <fippo> what is amazing is that we don't see the multi-protocol clients again...
[14:12:35] <fippo> but I guess the vendors are fighting them harder than last time.
[14:12:36] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:12:44] <Zash> fippo: Just wait
[14:12:52] <dwd> Either fighting, or they've switched to offering an XMPP interface to their silo.
[14:13:25] <Zash> All this has happened before etc
[14:13:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:14:09] <Zash> When did the first multi-protocol clients show up?
[14:14:30] <fippo> 1997 maybe?
[14:16:26] <Simon> Has anyone used http://instantbird.com <http://instantbird.com/>; or know how closely it's tied into Mozilla?
[14:16:49] <Zash> Simon: The IM support in Thunderbird is build on that iirc.
[14:16:52] <dwd> No and no. But I imagine we could find out the latter easily.
[14:17:23] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:17:40] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:19:04] *** simon has joined the room
[14:19:08] <Zash> I /think/ the guy showed up at FOSDEM last year
[14:19:35] *** emcho has left the room
[14:19:35] *** emcho has joined the room
[14:20:25] <Zash> or was it the year before
[14:20:30] <fippo> ah, florian talked to me at fosdem. I did not know he was behind instandbird
[14:21:01] *** simon has left the room
[14:21:25] <dwd> Which Florian?
[14:21:35] <Zash> dwd: http://www.instantbird.com/about.html
[14:22:01] <dwd> Oh, a new Florian.
[14:22:05] <dwd> TO me.
[14:22:07] <Zash> So many Florians
[14:22:16] <dwd> So little time.
[14:22:40] *** Simon has left the room
[14:24:15] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:25:26] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:36:14] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:37:14] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:37:19] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:37:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:38:23] *** Simon has joined the room
[14:38:23] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:38:36] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:39:53] <Simon> Is there a recommended indentation tab/spaces size and line wrap length for XEPs (bonus: Eclipse settings that I can import)?
[14:42:37] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:42:55] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:43:13] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:43:15] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:46:16] <dwd> I don't think so.
[14:47:17] <Simon> dwd - so woe to anyone who reformats a document and then tries to make a diff of it? Or is there a nice way to make an XML diff that I'm missing?
[14:47:33] <dwd> Simon, I think Tobias made some tools to diff XEPs.
[14:47:46] <dwd> [14:44:05] Dave Cridland: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-people/#editor actually says to submit XEPs to Peter directly, still.
[14:47:58] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:47:58] <dwd> I was actually trying to find the XEP submission address. :-)
[14:48:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:49:22] <Zash> dwd: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html#appendix-discuss whataboutthtatone
[14:49:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:50:36] <dwd> Ah, errata. Yes, not what I was doing, though.
[14:50:49] <dwd> I'm catching up on Exciting Board Paperwork. :-)
[14:50:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:51:06] *** ilpoht45 has joined the room
[14:51:13] <Simon> Do we have an agenda for this week?
[14:51:44] <dwd> Not AFAIK.
[14:52:09] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[14:52:14] <intosi> Excellent, my mail helped. Joker now supports submission of DS records for .nl domains.
[14:52:42] <ilpoht45> Alex: ralphm Kev Zash xnyhps MattJ Simon
http://syriatalk.co/IMG_10209337760734.jpg
[14:53:01] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:53:25] *** ilpoht45 has left the room
[14:54:24] *Simon reaches for the brain bleech.
[14:54:55] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:57:30] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:57:36] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:58:04] *** Simon shows as "online"
[14:58:09] *dwd submits a XEP.
[14:59:31] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:00:42] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:03:07] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:03:27] <intosi> Simon: you sure that will work?
[15:04:35] *** Zash has left the room
[15:04:40] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:08:10] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:09:57] <ralphm> Why do you people click on random URLs?
[15:10:08] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Journal of Craptology : Volume 9 is out"
[15:10:12] <ralphm> Especially ones with 'syria' in them.
[15:10:48] <Simon> Look over there. Free donuts.
[15:11:15] <ralphm> http://www.did-i-loose-all-my-bitcoins-on-mtgox.com/
[15:11:18] <Tobias> Simon, or server side tool uses daisy diff and generates that diff based on the two HTML outputs of the different versions
[15:12:01] *** Ash shows as "online"
[15:12:06] <Simon> Tobias - thanks. Do you have a non-syrian link for me?
[15:12:33] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:12:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:13:12] <Tobias> https://code.google.com/p/daisydiff/ this is the lib..or do you just want a diff of versions already in the repo, then this might help http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/
[15:13:12] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:13:39] <ralphm> Simon: ^
[15:13:46] <Simon> thanks :)
[15:14:13] <ralphm> Simon: Hoping you aren't affected
[15:15:43] <dwd> Of course, the lack of regulation the bitcoinistas enjoy so much also means they won't have the standard protections enjoyed by anyone using a traditional bank with boring, non-digital money.
[15:16:02] <Simon> ralphm: Thankfully not affected by the Gox madness. Actually I bought from Mark Karples before there was even a mtGox (by sending money to his friend in Sweden) Amazingly it all worked (and I pulled my coins into a private wallet immediately)
[15:16:30] <dwd> Simon, You've bought bitcoins?
[15:16:31] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:16:40] <dwd> Simon, I have this bridge I can sell you.
[15:16:44] <ralphm> Simon: I haven't looked into this stuff at all, but why would you *not* keep them in a private wallet?
[15:17:09] <Tobias> because of all the convenient cloud services?
[15:17:17] <ralphm> dwd: made of chocolate fudge?
[15:17:22] <dwd> Tobias, Right, and cloud services are cool.
[15:17:41] <ralphm> Tobias, dwd: Oh, I didn't know that.
[15:17:49] <dwd> ralphm, It's Tower Bridge. The UK is selling it and has made me sole agent. Honest.
[15:17:52] <Simon> ralphm: no idea. Well perhaps you are doing some exchange arbitrage and day-trading.
[15:17:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:18:09] <ralphm> Tobias, dwd: I don't know much about cloud services, really.
[15:18:16] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:18:30] <Simon> Might have a go at writing up a XEP for payment requests.
[15:18:36] <dwd> ralphm, Cloud services are like normal internet services except... Erm... cloudier.
[15:19:03] <Tobias> and with less privacy of course
[15:19:05] <ralphm> dwd: I should tell my boss, I guess. He might be interested in this cloud thing.
[15:19:06] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:19:09] <dwd> ralphm, And because clouds are cold - think of fog, for instance - then cloud services are cooler.
[15:19:30] <Simon> Tobias: nice tool.
[15:19:51] <Tobias> that's also why dwd stays in the foggy parts of this world :)
[15:20:07] <ralphm> dwd: I can see why they like Cloud services in San Francisco, too.
[15:20:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:20:19] <dwd> ralphm, Right.
[15:20:30] <ralphm> fog much
[15:20:35] <dwd> ralphm, They probably have cloud services in London, too, only they call them Pea Souper Services.
[15:21:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:22:13] <intosi> Cloud services in London occasionally cause my flight to be delayed or even cancelled.
[15:22:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:23:18] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:27:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:28:22] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:29:19] <ralphm> hm
[15:29:26] <ralphm> I'll make a note of this
[15:31:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:31:56] <dwd> Agenda Item: Spam protection.
[15:32:10] *** emcho has left the room
[15:33:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:33:24] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:34:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:35:01] <dwd> Agenda Item: XEP-0001 Changes (probably need to punt until next week)
[15:35:44] *** Zash has joined the room
[15:35:44] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:35:51] <dwd> Agenda Item: ProtoXEP Submission on "Form of Membership Applications" (again, probably need to put until next week)
[15:37:22] <dwd> In other news, Sony have released their new toys. Being a complete Sony whore now, I'm drooling.
[15:38:35] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:39:30] <Tobias> does it include a new crypto fail?
[15:39:56] <dwd> Did Sony have one? Beyond the stock Android fails?
[15:40:05] <Tobias> the PS3 had one
[15:40:25] <Tobias> where their random number for their ECDSA signatures was always the same :D
[15:40:26] <intosi> Rootkit pre-installed?
[15:40:29] <Simon> Were there minutes of the editing team's meeting?
[15:40:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:41:05] <dwd> Simon, That meeting was yesterday; I don't know of minutes yet, but I asked M&M if he'd say a few words to the Board today.
[15:41:29] <Simon> dwd: that was going to be my next question.
[15:43:40] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:44:39] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:44:39] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:44:46] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:45:03] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:45:03] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:45:11] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:45:11] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:46:23] *** m&m has joined the room
[15:47:50] *** Simon has left the room
[15:47:57] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:50:02] *** Simon has joined the room
[15:50:02] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:50:13] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:50:14] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:51:38] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:54:38] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:54:38] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:56:41] *** Kev shows as "online"
[15:56:41] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:56:43] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:56:43] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:57:14] *** Simon shows as "online"
[15:57:14] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:01:41] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[16:01:45] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:02:20] *** Lance has joined the room
[16:02:21] *** Lance shows as "online"
[16:03:01] *** Simon has left the room
[16:04:28] *** Simon has joined the room
[16:04:28] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:06:22] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:07:22] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[16:10:09] *** Zash has left the room
[16:10:10] *** Zash has joined the room
[16:10:11] *** Zash shows as "online"
[16:11:26] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:12:36] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[16:15:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:16:30] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:17:07] *** emcho has joined the room
[16:17:07] *** emcho has left the room
[16:17:07] *** emcho has joined the room
[16:19:03] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:19:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:19:24] <stpeter> I have a meeting IRL so I probably won't pay much attention to the Board meeting, but if I'm needed please include "stpeter" in the next so my client will show it in bold red text :-)
[16:20:52] <ralphm> ok stpeter
[16:21:33] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:23:09] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[16:26:36] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:27:44] *** Alex shows as "online"
[16:29:26] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:30:56] *m&m hurries off to grab more coffee
[16:30:59] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "stuffage"
[16:31:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:31:40] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:32:24] <ralphm> Ok
[16:32:31] <ralphm> Still two short
[16:32:36] *Simon waves
[16:33:01] <dwd> Hiya
[16:33:43] <Lloyd> dwd, becoming more and more Welsh each day
[16:33:53] <dwd> Lloyd, What, with "Hiya"?
[16:33:54] *** m&m shows as "online"
[16:34:33] <Lloyd> dwd yep, happy female Welsh I grant you, but I assumed you'd prefer me to leave those bits out.
[16:34:53] <dwd> Lloyd, Happy I'll grant you. The rest, not so much.
[16:36:18] <dwd> ralphm, Assuming you're chairing, I've put messages in here with "agenda" in them so you can find them in the logs. All today.
[16:36:39] <ralphm> "A battlecry a ninja yells when the ninja is ready to attack."
[16:36:43] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:37:00] <dwd> Oh, Miss Piggy, too.
[16:37:19] <dwd> But it was that kind of "Hiya" either.
[16:38:31] <ralphm> neither?
[16:38:51] <dwd> I entirely missed out all my negatives there, yes.
[16:39:04] <dwd> It was not that kind of "Hiya" either.
[16:39:18] <ralphm> Anyway, even though we're still missing bear and Laura, shall we begin?
[16:39:27] <dwd> Laura sent apologies to the list.
[16:39:31] <ralphm> oh, good
[16:39:36] <dwd> Sorry, I thought you'd seen those.
[16:39:55] <ralphm> Wasn't aware of snow on the Isles
[16:39:59] <ralphm> anyway
[16:40:08] <ralphm> 0. Agenda
[16:40:20] <ralphm> dwd spammed this room today
[16:40:23] <ralphm> any other items?
[16:40:44] <Simon> I don't think Laura can make it (she couldn't make our website meeting before this one either)
[16:41:10] <ralphm> Simon: dwd just said "Laura sent apologies to the list."
[16:41:14] <dwd> Oh, the note to Board@ I sent WRT IETF.
[16:41:23] <ralphm> dwd: right
[16:41:31] <Simon> Nothing major from my end.
[16:41:44] <ralphm> 1. Spam Protection
[16:41:45] *** emcho has left the room
[16:41:45] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:41:50] <ralphm> dwd?
[16:42:14] <dwd> So m&m mentioned that editor@ is inundated with spam, currently.
[16:42:25] <dwd> Making it hard to find the actual submissions in amongst the rubbish.
[16:42:28] <ralphm> the room, the list?
[16:42:34] <dwd> The list.
[16:42:39] <dwd> This is specifically email spam.
[16:42:45] <ralphm> why is it a problem on that list and not on the others?
[16:43:03] <dwd> Because that list relies on promptly handling messages from non-list members.
[16:43:29] <ralphm> dwd: ok, so this is something that the I-team should be able to handle. Or stpeter.
[16:43:41] <m&m> it takes some effort to separate the wheat and the chaff
[16:43:51] <intosi> iteam is looking at introducing greylisting on atlas.
[16:43:55] <dwd> Right, but a third-party spam filtering service might be in order, which would mean expenditure.
[16:44:06] <m&m> stpeter mentioned installing a graylisting filter
[16:44:25] <stpeter> yes iteam will be doing that
[16:44:36] <m&m> I think the greylisting will help significantly
[16:44:54] <dwd> If greylisting works, that's great - but I'd like to see Board agree in principle that item can go look for spam filtering services that cost actual money.
[16:45:03] <dwd> Or at least alert that they may need to.
[16:45:24] <ralphm> without too much self-promotion, intosi is looking into Mailgun for outgoing mail, they also do spam filtering for incoming
[16:45:35] <Simon> is there a good reason for the XSF to spend time running mailing lists rather than using commercial alternatives?
[16:45:47] <Simon> ralphm: great.
[16:46:08] <dwd> Simon, I would argue the mailing lists themselves (and the archives of them, more so) are a core service.
[16:46:18] <ralphm> dwd: agreed
[16:46:19] <dwd> Simon, For the most part this doesn't appear to be an onerous task, either.
[16:46:43] <ralphm> running mailman, when familiar, takes almost no resources
[16:46:49] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:46:51] <ralphm> it is things like spam that complicate things
[16:47:27] *** Lance has joined the room
[16:47:27] *** Lance shows as "online"
[16:47:35] <dwd> But anyway - can we tell iteam that we'll authorize actual money?
[16:48:04] <ralphm> dwd: I'd first like them to look at the options
[16:48:13] <Simon> raphm
[16:48:20] <ralphm> dwd: but I am not opposed on principle
[16:48:21] <Simon> sorry - kbd slip
[16:48:29] <dwd> ralphm, OK. Sounds good to me.
[16:48:49] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:49:00] <ralphm> I also asked intosi to gather metrics on the number of messages we send out
[16:49:24] <ralphm> depending on the volume, the costs might be near or at zero
[16:49:28] <intosi> ralphm: sorry, forgot about that. been busy, have put it higher on my todo-list.
[16:49:40] <ralphm> intosi: no worries
[16:50:30] <dwd> All sounds good. FWIW, some of these places charge by the email address by the looks of things. Which could be quite amusing, given it's all lists.
[16:51:52] <dwd> Anyway, I'm done on this one.
[16:51:52] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:51:53] <ralphm> Mailgun charges only per outgoing message and per dedicated IP
[16:52:07] <ralphm> (the latter we don't need)
[16:52:39] <ralphm> 2. XEP-0001 updates
[16:53:30] <dwd> Just a general note to read them. I don't think we've had sufficient discussion to consider them ready for voting.
[16:54:00] <Simon> +1
[16:54:10] <Simon> let's push to next week
[16:55:58] <ralphm> dwd: can't the Council do this themselves?
[16:56:17] <dwd> ralphm, The Approving Body for XEP-0001 is actually Board.
[16:56:22] <ralphm> ah yes
[16:56:28] <ralphm> I just noticed
[16:56:30] <dwd> ralphm, So it has to be us.
[16:56:31] <ralphm> oh well then
[16:56:40] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[16:56:52] <ralphm> I missed the Council meeting today, were the changes discussed there?
[16:56:55] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:57:03] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[16:57:21] <dwd> Only in as much as I called attention to them, and Kev/PSA noted that I may have the Humorous XEP approving body wrong.
[16:58:09] <dwd> FWIW, I still think that's probably the right change, but it's worth adding in some blurb about how they seek opinion as required.
[16:58:18] <ralphm> dwd: Kev is right, you just have no idea
[16:58:37] <Kev> Not sure that's exactly my wording.
[16:58:39] <Kev> But hey ho.
[16:59:08] <dwd> Kev, Well, you said the approving body was still council.
[16:59:17] <Kev> Yes.
[16:59:21] <ralphm> adding procedure also sucks humor
[16:59:27] <Kev> It was Ralph's "You have no idea" that I said I didn't say.
[16:59:27] <ralphm> going forward
[16:59:37] <dwd> Kev, Ah, OK.
[16:59:41] <ralphm> Kev: that was my opinion
[17:00:01] <Kev> ralphm: Right. I want to stay on Board's good side. You know how fickle they are.
[17:00:02] <dwd> ralphm, You should have had your humour formally approved before stating.
[17:00:22] <Kev> ralphm: If you propose your humour now, I can get it approved by Council in the next 28 days.
[17:00:41] <Lloyd> :)
[17:01:28] <ralphm> _ _ _ _
| | | | __ _| |__ __ _| |
| |_| |/ _` | '_ \ / _` | |
| _ | (_| | | | | (_| |_|
|_| |_|\__,_|_| |_|\__,_(_)

[17:01:51] <dwd> OK, I'm good with this.
[17:01:59] *** Simon shows as "online"
[17:02:10] <ralphm> 3. ProtoXEP form of membership applications
[17:02:24] *** Lloyd has left the room
[17:02:38] <dwd> FWIW, the Editorial team haven't yet announced this, so I was a little premature in putting it on the agenda.
[17:02:46] <ralphm> I don't think we're in the habit of discussing protoxeps formally other than raising objections for admission
[17:03:23] <m&m> we're working on it!
[17:03:28] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[17:03:30] <dwd> Right, again this one's Approving Body is the XSF Board, and is the "Form of membership applications" that the By-Laws state we approve.
[17:03:35] <ralphm> m&m: we == board
[17:03:40] <dwd> Or need to approve. From time to time.
[17:04:07] <dwd> It's basically a marginally tidied version of what I sent to the memebrs list back in December.
[17:04:11] <m&m> in the case of the ProtoXEP publication, we == Editorial Team
[17:04:29] <ralphm> dwd: so is it in the inbox?
[17:04:41] <m&m> not yet
[17:04:43] <Simon> Could the party that raised this agenda item please outline the benefits of a proto-xep over the current wiki based system.
[17:04:47] <dwd> ralphm, Submitted. Not yet there. Like I said, I was a little premature.
[17:04:55] <dwd> Simon, There is no current system.
[17:04:59] <ralphm> dwd: ok, anything to discuss now then?
[17:05:20] <dwd> Simon, Or rather, there is no formally approved "Form of membership applications" that I can find.
[17:05:45] <dwd> Simon, So this ProtoXEP provides a proposal for one, and includes saying "Applications must be made on the Wiki" etc.
[17:06:06] <dwd> ralphm, Erm. Probably nothign more than a heads-up, and please read when you see it announced.
[17:06:11] <ralphm> 4. AOB
[17:06:34] <dwd> Oh, yes.
[17:06:46] <dwd> m&m, Can you give a summary of where the Editorial Team is?
[17:07:02] *** Simon shows as "online"
[17:07:09] <dwd> And if you say "scattered across the earth", I shall have to stick my tongue out at you.
[17:07:11] <ralphm> dwd: on teh intarwebs
[17:07:14] <m&m> sure
[17:07:21] *dwd sticks his tonugue out at ralphm
[17:07:31] <m&m> the team had its first meeting yesterday @ 16:00 UTC
[17:07:47] *** emcho has joined the room
[17:07:47] *** emcho has left the room
[17:07:47] *** emcho has joined the room
[17:07:47] *** emcho has left the room
[17:07:56] <m&m> we got a brain dump from stpeter on the processes he's followed all of these years
[17:08:16] <m&m> changed editor@xmpp.org from an alias to a mailing list
[17:08:35] <m&m> and have some documents we're working through on processes, templates, etc
[17:09:36] <m&m> so far I'm the only member of the team with (most of) the necessary access to do things
[17:09:54] <m&m> we'll get the rest of them up and running as soon as we can
[17:10:00] *** emcho has joined the room
[17:10:18] <ralphm> m&m: ok, cool. Thanks for the update.
[17:10:35] <ralphm> any other Any Other Business?
[17:10:36] <m&m> there's more, but I'm not yet ready for that part yet (-:
[17:10:40] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:11:00] <m&m> I'm assembling a postmortem writeup on part of the process so far
[17:11:06] <dwd> Oh, we need some updates to various bits of website to handle the switch from PSA to the Editorial Team.
[17:11:11] <ralphm> m&m: right
[17:11:15] <m&m> which might have some recommendations for infrastructure updates
[17:11:16] <dwd> Who can make those changes?
[17:11:41] <m&m> it looks like I might be able to now, actually
[17:11:49] <m&m> but also stpeter
[17:12:05] *** Simon shows as "online"
[17:12:08] *** intosi has left the room
[17:12:27] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:12:43] <m&m> that's all I have, really!
[17:12:54] <dwd> OK, thanks.
[17:13:00] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:13:02] <Simon> Nice update m&m.
[17:13:09] *** intosi has joined the room
[17:13:17] <ralphm> 5. Date of Next
[17:13:29] <ralphm> I assume +1W is tricky for some.
[17:13:38] <ralphm> So proposing +2W
[17:13:43] <dwd> That works for me.
[17:14:07] <ralphm> I'm not sure I'll be able to be online around then, yet.
[17:14:34] <ralphm> But let's just schedule it
[17:14:51] <Simon> Could someone attending IETF volunteer to write up a blog post on the XSF activities there
[17:14:52] <dwd> 2014-03-12?
[17:15:14] <ralphm> dwd: yes
[17:15:26] <dwd> Simon, That would be useful.
[17:15:50] <ralphm> Simon: your question is noted
[17:15:59] <ralphm> 6. Close
[17:16:01] <ralphm> Thanks all!
[17:16:03] *** Kev shows as "online"
[17:16:04] *ralphm bang gavel
[17:16:09] <dwd> Oh.
[17:16:13] <m&m> too late
[17:16:23] <dwd> We didn't cover that IETF question I had.
[17:16:27] <Ash> Also maybe someone who is going to the IETF and the evening XMPP meetup might like to give a summary at the meetup about what happened at the IETF session
[17:16:28] *** Simon has left the room
[17:16:35] <ralphm> dwd: I asked for AOAOB
[17:16:40] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[17:16:54] <m&m> Ash: I'm planning to attend both, so I could do that if no one else is willing
[17:16:55] <dwd> ralphm, Yes, quite, my fault - I'd mentioned it at the beginning then forgot again.
[17:16:56] <ralphm> dwd: but +1
[17:17:01] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:17:04] <dwd> ralphm, I'll ask on the list.
[17:17:19] <ralphm> dwd: that seems proper
[17:17:31] <ralphm> m&m: awesome
[17:17:49] <Ash> Thanks m&m - I'll put your name down :)
[17:18:07] <m&m> graze
[17:18:25] *m&m goes back to slideware
[17:18:33] *ralphm goes for dinner
[17:18:46] <dwd> Ash, You know Tuesday is free enrty (kind of) for ISOC members? And ISOC membership is free...
[17:18:54] <m&m> actually, let me get that ProtoXEP into the inbox
[17:19:06] <Ash> I was thinking of doing it myself, but I don't think I'm going to be able to make the IETF now as next week is starting to look pretty busy!
[17:19:29] <Kev> Right, yes. I should presumably look at ISOC membership at some point prior to Tuesday.
[17:19:30] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:19:39] <Kev> dwd: What's the procedure here for getting entry as an ISOC member?
[17:19:48] <Kev> (Pointer to appropriate URL is a fine answer)
[17:19:57] <dwd> I *entirely* forget. Let me see if I can dig out the mail I got.
[17:20:02] <dwd> It could even be too late.
[17:20:03] <Kev> Ta.
[17:20:36] <dwd> I have some minutes written up, BTW.
[17:20:57] <dwd> Do any Board members want to review ahead of time, or shall I just post them to memebrs@?
[17:21:13] <m&m> members@
[17:21:38] <dwd> Oh, so *that's* why everyone seems to ignore my mail.
[17:22:34] <Zash> memeboards@
[17:22:44] <intosi> memebros@
[17:23:17] <dwd> MemeBruceStephens@ was actually what came to my mind.
[17:24:05] <m&m> need moar cats!
[17:24:05] <intosi> dwd: I knew it did.
[17:24:09] <intosi> dwd: same here.
[17:24:18] <m&m> it's not a meme without cats
[17:24:38] <dwd> Minutes sent to board@ cc members@, noted unapproved.
[17:24:47] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:24:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:26:37] <intosi> Any iOS users here with tips on XMPP clients for iPad / iPhone? Monad does seem to choke on any site not doing SSLv3, ChatSecure seems to crash on me.
[17:27:13] <intosi> Monal
[17:27:13] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[17:27:23] <dwd> intosi, What was the one that was announced on one of the mailing lists last week?
[17:28:38] <intosi> Not sure I saw the message you're talking about
[17:28:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:30:08] <intosi> Ah, Boogie Chat.
[17:30:27] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[17:30:38] <dwd> That rings a bell.
[17:30:59] <dwd> It looks the part at least.
[17:31:06] *** emcho has left the room
[17:31:26] <intosi> It wants me to manually provide hostname and port...
[17:31:48] <Zash> :|
[17:31:57] *** emcho has joined the room
[17:32:03] <intosi> Zash: quite.
[17:32:12] <dwd> That's not a great start.
[17:32:30] <intosi> Not really, no.
[17:32:52] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:33:30] <intosi> And no notifications of chats when the app is not the foreground app.
[17:33:48] <dwd> Oh, I know what you could do.
[17:33:59] <dwd> But it involves changing your phone to something reasonable.
[17:34:28] <Zash> N900! :P
[17:34:46] <dwd> I said "something reasonable".
[17:35:15] <Zash> Right, that was way into the "too awesome to be true" category
[17:35:20] <intosi> dwd: it's not for me.
[17:36:09] <dwd> intosi, Right. That sounds suspiciously like one of those "A friend of mine - no, not me, really - " stories.
[17:37:05] <intosi> dwd: I know. Although I'd like to have a good XMPP client on my iPad, I'm more than happy to just use my Nexus 7 or Android phone when on the road.
[17:41:12] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:44:00] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:44:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:45:00] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:45:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:47:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:50:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:51:16] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[17:51:51] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:53:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:53:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:55:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:59:58] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:00:18] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:00:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:02:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:06:26] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:06:28] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:06:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:07:25] *** Lance shows as "away"
[18:07:35] *** Lance shows as "online"
[18:08:36] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:08:44] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:11:15] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:11:51] *** stpeter shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:16:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:16:55] *** Link Mauve has left the room
[18:17:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:17:42] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:18:42] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:18:45] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:19:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:20:48] *** Link Mauve has joined the room
[18:20:51] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:24:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:24:34] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:24:52] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:24:54] *** intosi shows as "online"
[18:27:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:28:19] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:29:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:29:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:30:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:31:05] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[18:32:38] *** emcho has left the room
[18:33:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:33:39] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:37:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:40:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:41:54] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:42:48] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:42:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:43:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:45:00] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:46:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:46:25] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:46:43] *** Alex has left the room
[18:47:01] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:47:25] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:48:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:48:36] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:49:35] *** intosi has left the room
[18:49:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:49:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:51:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:51:36] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:55:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:55:27] *** intosi has joined the room
[18:57:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:05:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:06:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:07:58] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[19:10:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:11:27] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[19:12:27] *** Lance shows as "away"
[19:13:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:14:09] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:15:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:19:43] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:19:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:20:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:25:15] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:27:56] *** Lance shows as "online"
[19:29:35] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:30:39] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:31:47] *** Lance has joined the room
[19:31:47] *** Lance shows as "online"
[19:37:41] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[19:39:51] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:40:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:41:51] *** dezant shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Reasons why I stop replying: 1. I'm busy 2. you're boring 3. I'm mad 4. you replied with one word 5. I'm eating 6. you began stupidity."
[19:43:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:43:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:44:08] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "stuffage"
[19:44:17] *** Link Mauve shows as "online"
[19:47:15] *** Santiago26 shows as "xa" and his status message is "?"
[19:48:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:48:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:51:04] *** Alex has joined the room
[19:52:22] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[19:54:17] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:57:49] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:58:27] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[20:01:29] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[20:05:04] *** Lance has joined the room
[20:05:04] *** Lance shows as "online"
[20:05:04] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:06:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:06:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:07:49] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:12:58] *** emcho has joined the room
[20:14:29] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[20:19:12] *** Tobias has left the room
[20:19:50] *** m&m shows as "online"
[20:20:23] *** Tobias has joined the room
[20:20:24] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[20:23:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:28:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:34:30] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[20:35:00] *** Lance has joined the room
[20:35:00] *** Lance shows as "online"
[20:37:11] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:38:41] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:38:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:45:21] *** Kev shows as "online"
[20:46:25] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:48:17] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[20:51:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:51:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:53:20] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[21:01:57] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:04:12] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[21:04:15] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[21:09:45] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:09:47] *** emcho has left the room
[21:09:47] *** emcho has joined the room
[21:10:34] *** Ash shows as "online"
[21:23:11] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[21:24:55] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:28:22] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[21:31:44] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[21:34:44] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[21:35:12] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[21:37:42] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[21:39:42] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[21:41:10] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[21:46:12] *** Ash has left the room
[21:51:40] *** Alex shows as "online"
[21:52:14] *** Alex has left the room
[21:52:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:52:26] *** dwd has joined the room
[21:52:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:54:37] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:57:54] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[21:57:55] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[21:58:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:59:50] *** emcho has left the room
[22:01:05] *** Jef has joined the room
[22:03:12] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[22:03:44] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:04:16] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:07:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:08:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:09:12] *** stpeter has left the room
[22:11:24] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:13:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:14:25] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:20:30] *** Jef shows as "online"
[22:24:53] *** emcho has joined the room
[22:26:01] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:26:20] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:30:59] *** Zash has left the room
[22:32:54] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[22:36:20] *** Jef shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:38:03] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[22:41:36] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:42:00] *** Tobias has left the room
[22:42:48] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:43:24] *** intosi shows as "online"
[22:47:56] *** Tobias has joined the room
[22:47:58] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[22:50:06] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:50:46] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:52:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:52:35] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "stuffage"
[22:52:42] *** Jef shows as "online"
[22:54:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:56:38] *** Lance has left the room
[22:56:45] *** Lance has joined the room
[22:56:45] *** Lance shows as "online"
[22:58:29] *** Lance has left the room
[22:58:33] *** Lance has joined the room
[22:58:34] *** Lance shows as "online"
[22:59:36] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:00:02] *** Lance has left the room
[23:00:06] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:00:06] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:00:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:00:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:02:10] *** Lance has left the room
[23:02:15] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:02:15] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:02:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:02:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:03:15] *** m&m shows as "online"
[23:03:38] *** Lance has left the room
[23:05:47] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:05:53] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:07:55] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[23:09:36] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:13:21] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[23:16:13] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:25:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[23:27:50] *** emcho has left the room
[23:28:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:28:21] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:31:49] *** stpeter has joined the room
[23:42:54] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[23:44:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:48:04] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:48:11] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:48:11] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:48:18] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[23:53:45] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:58:16] *** Tobias shows as "online"