Thursday, March 27, 2014
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
March
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
          1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28 29 30
31            
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:01:14] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[00:07:09] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[00:07:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:08:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:10:01] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:12:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:13:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:15:18] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[00:17:10] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[00:18:23] *** Lance has joined the room
[00:18:23] *** Lance shows as "online"
[00:23:52] *** emcho has left the room
[00:23:52] *** emcho has joined the room
[00:24:45] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[00:25:44] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[00:33:11] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[00:41:07] *** emcho has left the room
[00:41:07] *** emcho has joined the room
[00:57:10] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[01:23:17] *** Kev has left the room
[01:23:36] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[01:33:11] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[02:01:13] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[02:25:16] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[02:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[02:48:26] *** Lance has left the room
[02:58:02] *** Lance has joined the room
[02:58:02] *** Lance shows as "online"
[03:01:11] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[03:33:11] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[03:34:59] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[03:34:59] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[04:01:15] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[04:33:13] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[05:01:14] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[05:07:04] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:10:12] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:11:10] *** Lance shows as "away"
[05:16:55] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:17:20] *** Lance shows as "online"
[05:20:12] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:22:13] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[05:36:34] *** simon@imaginator.com has joined the room
[05:36:34] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:36:34] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:36:34] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:36:34] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:36:34] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:36:37] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:38:19] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:38:19] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:39:50] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:39:50] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:41:07] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:41:07] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:41:41] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:41:53] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:41:53] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:46:44] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:51:48] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[05:52:37] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[05:56:52] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:01:55] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:02:09] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[06:04:32] *** Santiago26 shows as "online"
[06:06:58] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:12:02] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:17:05] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:22:07] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:27:11] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:32:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:33:13] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[06:37:18] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:40:35] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:40:35] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:40:59] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:40:59] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:42:20] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[06:42:57] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:42:57] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:47:23] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:49:38] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:49:41] *** Link Mauve shows as "online"
[06:50:41] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:50:59] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[06:52:26] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:57:30] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:57:36] *** simon@imaginator.com has left the room
[07:13:23] *** simon@imaginator.com has joined the room
[07:13:23] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:15:36] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:16:27] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:18:01] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:21:29] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:22:33] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:22:33] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:24:17] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:24:17] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:24:36] *** intosi shows as "online"
[07:26:32] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:28:38] *** Tobias has joined the room
[07:28:39] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:31:35] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:33:11] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[07:35:05] *** emcho has left the room
[07:35:05] *** emcho has joined the room
[07:35:11] *** Zash has joined the room
[07:35:12] *** Zash shows as "away"
[07:35:56] *** ralphm has left the room
[07:36:37] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:37:35] *** Zash has left the room
[07:37:37] *** Zash has joined the room
[07:37:37] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:37:38] *** Zash shows as "online"
[07:37:38] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:38:10] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:38:10] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:39:15] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:39:15] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:41:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:41:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:41:40] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:43:40] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:44:42] *** fsteinel has joined the room
[07:46:43] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:47:04] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:47:04] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:47:53] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:47:53] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:51:05] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[07:51:46] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:52:55] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:52:55] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:53:15] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:53:15] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:56:48] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:58:18] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:58:19] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:58:27] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[07:58:28] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:01:52] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:03:38] *** fsteinel has left the room
[08:04:51] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[08:06:55] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:11:58] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:17:00] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:22:03] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:27:06] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:29:11] *** Laura has joined the room
[08:32:08] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:33:11] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[08:37:11] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:39:22] *** Zash has left the room
[08:42:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:47:17] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:52:20] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[08:53:11] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[08:57:22] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:01:37] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[09:01:54] <Ge0rG> somebody needs to write an anti-spam proof-of-work XEP based on dogecoin for next week.
[09:02:25] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:02:48] <simon@imaginator.com> much wow!
[09:05:35] *** Zash has joined the room
[09:05:36] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:05:36] *** Zash shows as "online"
[09:05:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:06:13] <intosi> Ge0rG: thanks for volunteering :)
[09:07:28] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:07:30] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:07:31] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:08:30] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:08:31] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:09:30] <Ge0rG> in the context of http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/03/apps-with-millions-of-google-play-downloads-covertly-mine-cryptocurrency/ it would make a great prank for yaxim :>
[09:09:30] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:09:31] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:09:58] <Ge0rG> intosi: I never have written an XEP before, but I would try if there is a "writing XEPs for dummies" kind of resource
[09:12:08] *** Bunneh has joined the room
[09:12:20] <Zash> Ge0rG: Something like {xep 143} perhaps?
[09:12:21] <Bunneh> Ge0rG: XEP-0143: Guidelines for Authors of XMPP Extension Protocols is Procedural (Active, 2011-07-08) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0143.html
[09:12:31] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:15:06] <Ge0rG> Zash: perhaps, yeah.
[09:16:42] <Ge0rG> not sure if I will be able to comply with all these points within the next five days, though
[09:17:33] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:23:24] *** simon@imaginator.com has joined the room
[09:23:24] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:23:24] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:23:40] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:28:46] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:31:38] *** Kev has joined the room
[09:31:39] *** Kev shows as "online"
[09:31:51] <ralphm> hey Kev, was missing you here
[09:32:40] <Kev> Here now :)
[09:33:05] <ralphm> I read back on the room history. Regarding node identifiers, on principle I still believe they should be opaque. I know we have the exception with auto-subscribe / caps. I don't know how that interacts with your ideas.
[09:33:36] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:33:51] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:34:01] <Kev> ralphm: Ah, thanks. Opaque to what, thought?
[09:34:21] <Kev> To the server or the client?
[09:34:26] *** Maranda has joined the room
[09:34:59] <ralphm> Kev: well, I'm kinda ok if it has some meaning for a particular application
[09:35:14] <Kev> I think that's what I'm implying.
[09:35:18] <ralphm> but on the protocol level it should remain opaque
[09:35:21] <Kev> To the server it's just opaque as always.
[09:35:24] <ralphm> ok, just making sure
[09:35:33] <Kev> But the applications will construct the nodes in a known way.
[09:35:37] <Kev> *node ids
[09:36:03] <ralphm> I still have horrible memories of how ejabberd implemented pubsub with node identifiers that included the owner's JID
[09:36:03] <Kev> And could use the id of the template node to get the id of the publishing node.
[09:36:52] <ralphm> Our usage of pubsub nodes at Mediamatic also gave them an application-specific structure. That's fine.
[09:37:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:37:57] <ralphm> Problems rise when different applications share the same nodeid namespace, where node identifiers have some meaning.
[09:38:25] <ralphm> This is also why I think that eventually you don't want generic pubsub services for such applications.
[09:38:55] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:39:08] <ralphm> We started out with one for Mediamatic, too, and quickly reimplemented it as a pubsub 'shell' around some business logic
[09:39:13] <ralphm> made my life so much easier
[09:43:58] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:44:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:45:48] <Kev> Right.
[09:45:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:45:58] <Kev> I think your Mediamatic needs were somewhat more advanced than the requirements for this.
[09:47:20] <Kev> This is fairly simple "get a bunch of form templates, let people submit completed forms".
[09:47:32] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is "Working"
[09:49:01] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[09:50:51] <MattJ> The problem is that there's no way for the pubsub service to indicate whether it's suitable for hosting forms
[09:50:58] *** simon@imaginator.com has left the room
[09:51:40] <MattJ> Say I create an XMPP firewall whose configuration is exposed as pubsub nodes, and the node id represents namespaces to filter
[09:51:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:52:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[09:52:44] <Kev> MattJ: At least for my use case, that's fine. Configuring templates is an administrative function.
[09:56:11] <MattJ> That's the problem though, it's fine for you... but there's no way for a client to know when it's not fine
[09:56:36] <MattJ> and the form-fillers might find stuff they didn't expect when they look at the node
[09:57:55] <Kev> I'm not quite sure I understand the problem.
[09:58:47] <Kev> A form-filler will always be OK, because if the templates have been published, the foms will be published OK. Short of much silliness from admins trying to break things.
[09:59:03] <MattJ> In your case, yes
[09:59:20] <Kev> For a template publisher, I'm not sure that's any different to any other pubsub application. You can't just go publishing to a ~random pubsub service and hope you're allowed to do so.
[10:00:19] <MattJ> That's fair enough, yes... but what about form-fillers? Are they also configured with which pubsub services are safe to look for forms on?
[10:00:28] <MattJ> Because you mentioned automatically picking them up from disco
[10:00:52] <Kev> I'm using the presence of templates to indicate this.
[10:01:23] *** Tobias has left the room
[10:01:35] <MattJ> So the node exists with a name in a certain format *and* the item contains an element of a certain kind?
[10:02:17] <Kev> If the node id is in a given format, you can try to request templates from it.
[10:03:00] <Kev> If the template then isn't really a template, I guess you're not going to present it to the user, so not being able to publish it is irrelevant.
[10:08:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:10:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:17:21] *** Maranda has left the room
[10:19:27] *** Simon has joined the room
[10:20:16] <Simon> Could it be that adium.in has a script auto-checking their server on xmpp.net. EVERY single time I check the wall-of-shame, they are running a test.
[10:21:29] <Ge0rG> maybe the last test just never completed?
[10:21:41] <xnyhps> I'm not sure I'm comfortable with them using that name...
[10:21:48] <Zash> > Test started 2014-03-27 10:00:03 UTC 22 minutes ago.
[10:22:04] <Simon> I'm going to presume it's nothing to do with Adium?
[10:22:10] <xnyhps> Nope
[10:22:15] <xnyhps> That's adium.im
[10:22:26] <Kev> I assumed Simon had just typod :)
[10:22:39] <Ge0rG> there is a test going on for adium.in though
[10:23:11] <intosi> And it has SRV records for XMPP
[10:23:28] <Zash> And is running ejabberd
[10:25:01] <Simon> xynhps: what about hell-banning them with a 59minute long test that always results in an F?
[10:25:20] <xnyhps> Haha
[10:25:23] *** Laura shows as "online"
[10:25:33] *** Laura shows as "online"
[10:26:13] <Simon> I'm looking forward to Peter's promised cleanup of https://xmpp.net/directory.php#
[10:26:29] <Simon> imho that list should only be for A-grades.
[10:27:15] <Ge0rG> no yax.im on that list :(
[10:28:32] *** Ash has joined the room
[10:28:57] <Simon> MattJ: where did you get to with the public server directory that you mentioned during the Portland Summit?
[10:30:09] <MattJ> Nowhere I'm afraid, and it's going to be a while till I can resume
[10:32:55] <intosi> adium.in test seems to be automated.
[10:32:56] <intosi> https://xmpp.net/result.php?id=25275
[10:33:11] <intosi> That's yesterday, at 10:00 as well.
[10:33:42] <Ge0rG> oh, good idea. I will add all my servers for automated tests as well.
[10:33:51] <intosi> https://xmpp.net/result.php?id=25097
[10:33:52] <intosi> Etc.
[10:34:14] <Ge0rG> xnyhps: what about monetizinig that as a service? auto-test daily for $5/month?
[10:34:16] <Simon> I have a feeling they just want visibility in the list
[10:35:02] <Ge0rG> I wonder about adium.in: if StartTLS is required, why are there pre-TLS SASL methods on the list?
[10:35:46] <Simon> speaking of service monetisation and my question to MattJ, would anyone be interested in an XMPP component that they could fire off a "authenticate this new user with SMS" iq at, user gets SMS and clicks link, you get a real-ish user proof back from the component?
[10:37:06] <Ge0rG> Simon: generally a nifty thing, but not something that I would add to yax.im
[10:37:39] <xnyhps> Ge0rG: Aside from visibility, what's the point in scheduled retesting anyway? It's not like the test changes daily and people's configuration probably neither.
[10:38:24] <Ge0rG> xnyhps: I have tasked myself with modifying the config once a day, just for the sake of it. Didn't you?
[10:38:28] <Simon> I'm going to presume Ge0rG was being sarcastic.
[10:38:40] <Simon> :)
[10:39:09] *Ge0rG is in the process of negotiating a good deal for yax.im, even though it is not $19bln
[10:39:25] <Zash> Ge0rG: ejabberd being silly? (re pre-tls sasl)
[10:40:03] <Ge0rG> Zash: ah, kay
[10:40:26] <Zash> With PLAIN before TLS too
[10:43:01] *** fsteinel has joined the room
[11:04:05] *** Zash shows as "away"
[11:05:50] *** Ash has left the room
[11:06:31] *** emcho has left the room
[11:07:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:09:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:12:11] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:15:23] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:28:44] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:30:42] *** Kev shows as "online"
[11:33:58] *** Lloyd has joined the room
[11:34:05] *** Lance has joined the room
[11:34:06] *** Lance shows as "online"
[11:36:29] *** Ash has joined the room
[11:38:48] <ralphm> Kev: sorry I tuned out a bit, but I have the same concerns as MattJ. Purely conceptually, I don't like the idea of needing a heuristic based on node identifiers with a certain pattern and coincidently having particular types of items.
[11:39:10] <Kev> Well, it's not a heuristic, it's an algorithm.
[11:39:23] <ralphm> I'm abandoning all pragmatism in my argument.
[11:39:46] <ralphm> Kev: I disagree about it being an algorithm.
[11:40:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:40:27] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:40:50] <ralphm> Ignoring implementation details like generic v.s. app-specific pubsub server, I'd want to just use disco to find out of a thing is what I'm looking for.
[11:40:55] *** Simon shows as "online"
[11:41:11] <Kev> Which is exactly what happens.
[11:41:21] <Kev> Or what I'm proposing.
[11:41:52] <ralphm> We used to have a push side in XEP-0030, but abandoned that in favor of pubsub. Going back to the discussion earlier, I might agree that generic pubsub services would need to be able to accept custom node config fields.
[11:42:29] <ralphm> Kev: I'm talking about using disco#info to find that a 'form endpoint' or whatever you want to call it.
[11:42:47] <ralphm> (... that a node is ...)
[11:43:54] <Kev> But we don't have this mechanism.
[11:44:00] <Kev> If we had this mechanism, I'd have suggested using it.
[11:44:07] <Kev> What we do have is node identifiers.
[11:44:14] <Kev> So I'm suggesting we use them to identify nodes :)
[11:44:19] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:47:16] <ralphm> Kev: as I mentioned, I am arguing conceptually, and would rather have it work as I describe. If you really need / want to do this in some kind of generic services, we should bring back the ability to set identities on nodes, and/or require that generic pubsub services accept custom form fields for node config (and maybe subscription options,too)
[11:47:54] <ralphm> Kev: and obviously, doing it as app-specific pubsub service, it is trivial.
[11:50:45] <Kev> I'd quite like if our story as the XSF isn't "XEP-0060 is great, but for even the most trivial real-world requirements, you'll have to hack your service because it's not suitable" :)
[11:52:00] <Kev> What's not clear to me so far is what the problem is with using node identifiers to identify nodes.
[11:52:21] <Simon> IMHO XEP-0060 specs even too much - for example specific roles and their capabilities. Much better to leave 60 as a framework and have application specific enhancements in new XEPs that reference 60's fundamentals.
[11:52:55] <Kev> I accept that it feels as if you should be able to disco#info stuff to find out more about it, but AFAICS the node identifiers are sufficient for this.
[11:53:17] <ralphm> Kev: I agree that the story is not great in this respect. On and off, I've been thinking of an example application to build a tutorial around, and haven't really found a 'good' one.
[11:54:48] <ralphm> Kev: the problem with it is that node identifiers are specified to be opaque. If another app has a similar setup, with similar URIs as node ids and the same type of items (xep-0004 namespace, right), what to do? That's why I called it a heuristic.
[11:55:20] <ralphm> Simon: we all agree that XEP-0060 has to be split up and I have always promoted a more lenient interpretation of the specs.
[11:55:27] <Kev> Another app won't have similar node IDs unless it goes trampling over other people's namespaces.
[11:55:48] <Kev> If we're worried about people trampling over namespaces they shouldn't, the same argument applies to all our protocols.
[11:55:50] <ralphm> Simon: the roles and all that are not part of the protocol per se, but of business logic of a generic service, maybe.
[11:56:50] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:57:52] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:57:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:58:16] <ralphm> Kev: except that node identifiers are not specified to hold URIs. Of course the chance of conflicts is almost zero. I just don't like it conceptually. Same with well-known nodes in disco, one of those necessary evils. You do have precedent there, so it probably works fine in practice.
[11:58:52] <ralphm> It would be so much better if 'discovery' isn't spread over multiple places.
[11:59:45] *** Simon has left the room
[12:00:10] <Kev> ralphm: Conceptual argument aside, do you have a suggestion of how better to specify this in practice?
[12:01:00] <ralphm> Kev: in a generic service as they currently exist, no
[12:01:50] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:01:51] <Kev> So the pragmatic thing to do is to continue writing a proposal as I've described it, then?
[12:02:11] <ralphm> Kev: yes. I hope I haven't wasted your time.
[12:02:43] *** edhelas has joined the room
[12:02:48] <edhelas> hi
[12:02:55] <Kev> Thanks. I don't disagree that disco would be nicer conceptually. Just that we've got to work with what we've got :)
[12:03:16] <ralphm> and we probably should work on the problems here
[12:03:46] *** fsteinel has left the room
[12:03:47] <ralphm> either by suggesting the practise as a 'best' one, or fixing the expectations of generic services
[12:04:35] <edhelas> I think that there's a lot of improves that can be added to Pubsub
[12:04:39] <Kev> FWIW, I think doing it 'this way' could be picked up as a best practice.
[12:05:08] <ralphm> Kev: my point
[12:05:26] <Kev> If you standardise a way of doing pubsub, choose a node prefix, and then append application-specific data to that.
[12:05:37] *** Lloyd has left the room
[12:05:57] <Kev> e.g. we might have all geoloc nodes identified by starting with urn:xmpp:geoloc:repository/ or something.
[12:06:07] <ralphm> Kev: we could even easily suggest node identifiers in general being URIs. This is backwards compatible in most real-world cases.
[12:06:31] <ralphm> Kev: I'm not sure I agree about that
[12:06:44] <Kev> So e.g. if the military wanted to use geoloc, they could use xmpp:geoloc:repository/tanks/goldfish/1 xmpp:geoloc:repository/tanks/goldfish/2 etc.
[12:07:00] <edhelas> Kev: are you working on a Pubsub client ?
[12:07:11] <Kev> edhelas: Depends what you mean.
[12:07:33] <ralphm> Kev: I think that's a bit restrictive and I'd also would expect app-specific node identifiers
[12:07:47] <edhelas> I'm looking for clients which implements correctly pubsub to test the compatibility with my project (Movim)
[12:07:48] <Kev> ralphm: Maybe geoloc was a bad example. Although it's not entirely clear to me that it was.
[12:07:57] <ralphm> Kev: also, we lack a mechanism for searching with patterns in disco
[12:08:01] <Kev> edhelas: what does a client supporting pubsub mean?
[12:08:10] <Kev> edhelas: Swiften/Sluift have pubsub support that you can use.
[12:08:14] <edhelas> that he can discover, read, write on nodes
[12:08:20] <Kev> But a generic pubsub client doesn't make a great deal of sense.
[12:08:24] <Kev> You can do that with Sluift very easily.
[12:08:25] <ralphm> edhelas: that's meaningless in itself
[12:08:41] <ralphm> edhelas: clients implement as specific *use* of pubsub
[12:08:41] <Kev> edhelas: http://swift.im/blog/swiften-pubsub/
[12:08:55] <edhelas> ok thx
[12:09:17] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com shows as "online"
[12:09:43] <Kev> ralphm: Although my requirement is slightly different to the geoloc example I gave, because of the expected format of items *plus* the semantics in having templates plus completed forms published.
[12:10:12] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:10:12] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:10:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:10:56] <ralphm> Kev: the thing they push forms too, is that app-specific? If not, why doesn't *that* implement pubsub?
[12:11:03] <ralphm> ^to
[12:11:28] *** Laura shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:11:39] <Kev> No, it's all a pubsub service.
[12:11:50] *** Ash has joined the room
[12:11:57] <ralphm> so they don't really use regular form submission, righ
[12:12:00] <ralphm> t
[12:12:13] <Kev> 'regular form submission'?
[12:12:48] *** Alex has joined the room
[12:12:50] <ralphm> normally you request a form (using XEP-0004 protocol), fill in fields and then submit it
[12:13:04] <Kev> Hmm.
[12:13:06] <Kev> Is that true?
[12:13:18] <Kev> XEP-0004 doesn't provide a mechanism of requesting a form, or submitting it, AFAIR.
[12:13:25] <Kev> Only the format of the form itself.
[12:13:25] <ralphm> wait huh?
[12:13:55] <Kev> So I'm suggesting that both the empty forms, and the completed forms, are pubsubbed.
[12:14:00] <ralphm> oh you're right
[12:14:07] <ralphm> it is always part of another protocol
[12:14:18] <ralphm> never mind that part
[12:14:27] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:14:27] <Kev> So you have a bunch of nodes that are identifiable by their ID that contain templates (empty xep4 forms).
[12:14:40] <ralphm> yes, I understand
[12:14:48] <ralphm> I was confused with how pubsub uses forms
[12:15:03] <Kev> So when a client wants to publish a form, it fills in the template, generates the right ID for the publishing node (by s/template/result/ in the node ID or similar), and publishes. All using xep60.
[12:16:03] <ralphm> and who gets those forms?
[12:16:10] <ralphm> where is the sub part of the story?
[12:16:11] *** Laura shows as "online"
[12:16:15] <Kev> Whoever is subscribed to those nodes.
[12:16:53] <ralphm> I think I like the general concept here, by the way
[12:17:04] *** Ash shows as "online"
[12:17:11] <Kev> There's some sort of incident, a user picks the appropriate form to report it, fills it in and presses 'send'.
[12:17:27] <ralphm> right
[12:17:30] <Kev> Then the relevant incident handler operators will receive the notifications in their clients.
[12:18:58] <Kev> And although my requirements are along these lines, it actually works more generally - e.g. you could use this in an application that has users fill out questionnaires, or whatever.
[12:21:20] <Kev> So my intention here is that the 'get templates, fill out, submit' bit is standardised through a description of process, and that then the nodes are specified to have a standard and an application-specific part.
[12:21:55] <ralphm> aye
[12:22:13] <Kev> So if you were building a questionnaire application, you might have something like urn:xmpp:pubsub-form-template:isode.com/employeesatisfaction/2014
[12:22:26] <ralphm> I'd be happy to give that a thorough run-through, sponsor or co-edit it
[12:23:00] <Kev> I think the spec itself is dead simple, because there's no protocol, only a way of generating the right node IDs.
[12:23:19] <ralphm> yeah, it is mostly informational
[12:23:23] <Kev> So yes, I'm trying to write it up, if you'd like to give it a run-through once I've done that it'd be marvellous please.
[12:23:29] <ralphm> but examples would help greatly
[12:23:32] <Kev> Yes, I thought about it not being standards-track, but I think it is really.
[12:23:49] <Kev> Yes, examples would help. I'm vaguely inclined to clear the first hurdle of Council before I put too much work into it.
[12:24:13] <ralphm> you have my no-objection, for what it is worth
[12:24:38] <Kev> Thanks.
[12:24:51] <ralphm> since we are telling people how to use identifiers, it surely is standards track
[12:25:17] <ralphm> gotta drive a car
[12:25:22] <Kev> Enjoy. Thanks.
[12:25:22] <ralphm> catch you later
[12:26:08] *** intosi has left the room
[12:26:13] *** intosi has joined the room
[12:32:40] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:33:37] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com shows as "online"
[12:35:19] *** Ash shows as "online"
[12:41:41] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:53:35] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:54:20] *** Tobias has joined the room
[12:54:22] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[12:54:33] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "@uni"
[12:55:44] *** Jef has joined the room
[12:56:43] *** emcho has joined the room
[12:59:02] *** emcho has left the room
[12:59:07] *** Laura shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:59:16] *** emcho has joined the room
[13:01:02] *** emcho has left the room
[13:01:02] *** emcho has joined the room
[13:01:03] *** emcho has left the room
[13:02:46] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:04:00] *** Laura shows as "online"
[13:09:57] *** Ash shows as "online"
[13:13:34] *** emcho has joined the room
[13:17:29] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:27:29] *** Jef shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:32:22] *** lloyd.watkin has joined the room
[13:34:53] *** Ash has left the room
[13:35:09] *** Lance has joined the room
[13:35:10] *** Lance shows as "online"
[13:35:53] *** Jef shows as "online"
[13:39:47] *** emcho has left the room
[13:39:47] *** emcho has joined the room
[13:41:28] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:42:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:43:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:43:51] *** lloyd.watkin has left the room
[13:52:34] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:57:20] <edhelas> I'd like to know if you have a comment to make on the prososal I've made yesterday on this email Tags and Pubsub subscriptions in XEP-0048 (Bookmarks)
[14:00:51] *** Ash has joined the room
[14:05:12] *** Zash has left the room
[14:05:14] *** Zash has joined the room
[14:05:15] *** Zash shows as "online"
[14:32:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:48:48] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:48:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:50:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:53:31] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:54:01] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:58:37] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:58:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:59:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:03:27] *** emcho has left the room
[15:03:27] *** emcho has joined the room
[15:03:31] *** Jef shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:03:57] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:05:49] *** Jef shows as "online"
[15:06:10] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[15:06:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:18:21] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:28:21] *** Jef shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:31:34] *** Zash has left the room
[15:35:15] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:35:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:36:16] *** Lance has joined the room
[15:36:17] *** Lance shows as "online"
[15:38:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:38:55] <Tobias> Kev, the wordpress should be editable right?
[15:38:58] <Tobias> at xmpp.org
[15:39:15] <Kev> AFAIK.
[15:39:18] <Tobias> k
[15:42:01] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:42:07] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:48:33] *** Lance shows as "online"
[15:48:33] *** Lance shows as "online"
[15:50:57] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[15:51:14] *** Alex shows as "online"
[15:51:36] *** Tobias has left the room
[15:51:38] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:51:49] *** Tobias has joined the room
[15:51:52] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "@uni"
[15:55:38] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[15:56:14] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:00:02] <Kev> http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/pubsubforms.html is the bare minimum to describe what I've been going on about, I think.
[16:01:14] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[16:01:17] *** Alex shows as "online"
[16:03:38] *** Tobias has left the room
[16:03:50] *** Tobias has joined the room
[16:03:52] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "@uni"
[16:09:50] *** edhelas has left the room
[16:11:14] *** Zash has joined the room
[16:11:15] *** Zash shows as "online"
[16:14:42] *** Link Mauve shows as "xa"
[16:26:17] *** simon@imaginator.com has joined the room
[16:26:17] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:26:57] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:28:09] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:28:09] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:30:54] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[16:31:30] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:31:30] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:32:00] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:33:29] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:33:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:34:53] *** stpeter has joined the room
[16:35:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:37:03] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:39:13] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:40:54] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of being idle"
[16:42:05] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:43:26] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:44:40] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:45:50] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:46:21] *** emcho has left the room
[16:46:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:47:08] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:51:48] *** Tobias has left the room
[16:51:49] *** dezant has joined the room
[16:52:11] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:52:58] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:53:01] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:53:28] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:56:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:57:13] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[16:58:09] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:00:59] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:00:59] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:01:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:01:51] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:01:52] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:02:16] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:02:32] *** Lance shows as "away"
[17:02:40] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:02:40] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:04:16] *** Laura has left the room
[17:04:18] *** Laura has joined the room
[17:04:35] *** Laura has left the room
[17:04:36] *** Laura has joined the room
[17:07:18] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:08:08] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:08:08] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:08:08] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:08:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:09:06] *** Lance shows as "online"
[17:09:15] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:09:45] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[17:11:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:11:38] *** Laura shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:11:40] *** Laura shows as "online"
[17:12:21] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:13:21] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:15:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:17:24] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:19:24] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:20:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:20:57] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:21:00] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[17:21:04] *** Ash shows as "online"
[17:21:41] *** Laura shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:21:43] *** Laura shows as "online"
[17:22:25] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[17:22:27] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:22:29] *** Jef shows as "online"
[17:23:53] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[17:24:54] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[17:27:29] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:28:05] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:29:45] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[17:31:27] *** Alex shows as "online"
[17:32:32] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:36:05] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[17:37:34] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:39:33] *** Zash has left the room
[17:41:36] *** Tobias has joined the room
[17:41:40] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "@uni"
[17:42:37] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:45:58] *** Ash has left the room
[17:47:40] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:48:16] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[17:50:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:52:42] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[17:54:57] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:57:45] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:02:48] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:04:53] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[18:07:50] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:08:14] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[18:08:57] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[18:09:47] *** Alex shows as "online"
[18:10:00] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[18:11:50] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[18:12:53] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:14:56] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[18:17:55] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:20:33] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[18:22:58] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:24:22] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:25:08] *** intosi shows as "online"
[18:25:24] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:25:25] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:25:58] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:25:58] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:28:01] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:30:45] *** Lance shows as "away"
[18:31:22] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[18:33:03] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:33:05] *** Lance shows as "online"
[18:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[18:33:14] *** Laura has left the room
[18:35:45] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:38:06] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:39:42] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:39:43] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:41:22] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of being idle"
[18:42:04] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:42:20] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:43:04] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[18:43:09] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:44:09] *** Alex shows as "online"
[18:45:08] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:45:44] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:45:44] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:48:12] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:49:56] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:49:56] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:50:17] *** Kev shows as "online"
[18:51:58] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[18:52:21] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:52:21] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:53:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:53:44] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:55:08] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:55:25] <Tobias> Kev, what was the XEP that describes JID binding during chat sessions?
[18:56:03] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:56:03] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:56:51] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:57:05] *** Jef shows as "online"
[18:57:37] *** Link Mauve shows as "online"
[18:57:51] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[18:58:17] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[18:58:53] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[18:59:34] <mathieui> Tobias, 296?
[18:59:46] <Tobias> -xep 296
[18:59:48] <Bunneh> Tobias: XEP-0296: Best Practices for Resource Locking is Informational (Deferred, 2011-08-18) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0296.html
[18:59:58] <Tobias> mathieui, thanks, i think that is the one
[19:00:02] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[19:03:20] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:03:26] *** Ash has joined the room
[19:04:31] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:07:03] *** emcho has joined the room
[19:08:18] *** emcho has left the room
[19:08:23] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:08:37] *** emcho has joined the room
[19:09:54] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:09:54] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:10:12] <Neustradamus> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Mojo_Lingo_Application_2014 VS http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Ben_Langfeld_Application_2014?
[19:10:48] *** emcho has left the room
[19:10:52] *** emcho has joined the room
[19:11:35] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:11:36] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:13:25] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:13:33] <simon@imaginator.com> Well up until recently companies could be members of the XSF.
[19:16:15] *** xnyhps shows as "xa"
[19:17:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:17:59] *** Link Mauve shows as "away"
[19:18:28] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:19:19] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:19:42] <Kev> Still can, no?
[19:20:22] <simon@imaginator.com> What's the status of the amendment?
[19:21:19] *** Jef shows as "online"
[19:21:42] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:23:30] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:23:54] <Kev> The change to not allow companies was uncontentious, I think.
[19:24:05] <Kev> But bylaw votes need to go through a members meeting.
[19:24:32] <simon@imaginator.com> Which is the next summit or ?
[19:24:40] <Kev> It's the next members meeting.
[19:24:44] <Kev> The summit isn't a members meeting.
[19:25:01] <Kev> Members meetings = those things we have four times a year to vote on members stuff.
[19:25:19] <simon@imaginator.com> ah those :)
[19:26:02] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:28:33] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:28:48] <Kev> The XEP1 changes are somewhat more contentious.
[19:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[19:33:21] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:33:35] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:33:44] *** Lance has joined the room
[19:33:44] *** Lance shows as "online"
[19:38:38] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:39:12] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:39:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:40:23] *** emcho has left the room
[19:40:28] *** emcho has joined the room
[19:43:21] *** Jef shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:43:41] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[19:44:00] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:44:00] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:44:13] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:48:19] *** Kev shows as "online"
[19:48:43] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:50:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:53:18] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[19:53:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:53:45] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:54:59] *** Ash has left the room
[19:55:05] *** Ash has joined the room
[19:57:18] *** simon@imaginator.com has left the room
[20:00:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:01:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:06:17] *** Jef shows as "online"
[20:07:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:08:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:09:03] *** Link Mauve shows as "online"
[20:10:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:14:09] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:15:59] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[20:18:25] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:18:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:19:36] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:20:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:24:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:25:03] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[20:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[20:33:30] *** Ash has left the room
[20:37:25] *** Zash has joined the room
[20:37:27] *** Zash shows as "online"
[20:47:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:49:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:53:32] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[20:53:51] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[20:59:26] *** Tobias has left the room
[20:59:39] *** Tobias has joined the room
[20:59:41] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[21:00:01] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:03:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:04:49] *** Jef shows as "online"
[21:06:35] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:10:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:11:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:12:09] *** Kev shows as "online"
[21:15:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[21:15:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:16:13] *** emcho has left the room
[21:16:13] *** emcho has joined the room
[21:16:14] *** emcho has left the room
[21:17:25] <Ge0rG> is there an XMPP Extensions Editor?
[21:17:53] <Kev> A team, even.
[21:18:38] <Ge0rG> the link from http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0143.html#submit leads to a page not mentioning anybody responsible
[21:19:33] <Ge0rG> is there already a candidate for the 2014-04-01 XEP?
[21:19:45] *** emcho has joined the room
[21:20:34] <Kev> Not of which I'm aware.
[21:21:01] <Ge0rG> Kev: are you part of the above-mentioned team?
[21:21:11] <Kev> I am not.
[21:22:05] <Lance> it was decided best for the council and editor team to not overlap
[21:22:26] <Tobias> Ge0rG, http://xmpp.org/participate/become-a-member/editor-team/
[21:22:45] <Kev> Lance: I don't think any such thing was decided, actually.
[21:23:12] <Kev> The opinion was presented, but I don't think there was any formal acceptance of it.
[21:23:13] <Ge0rG> Tobias: maybe that page should be linked from xep0143
[21:23:18] <Lance> not officially, but that seemed to be the opinion in the air
[21:23:29] <Tobias> Ge0rG, maybe...something for the editor team to fix :P
[21:24:04] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:24:43] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[21:25:11] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:32:16] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[21:33:06] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[21:34:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:35:11] *** Jef shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:35:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:36:03] *** Jef shows as "online"
[21:37:31] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[21:45:23] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:46:52] *** dezant has left the room
[21:47:08] *** dezant has joined the room
[21:47:49] *** dezant shows as "xa" and his status message is "دوس أعلــه الگلـب بثـنيـن رجـليك..
ومن توصـل للكرامـه رجلك اكسرهـا!"

[21:49:51] *** Santiago26 has joined the room
[21:50:52] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[21:55:23] *** Jef shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:56:19] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:58:17] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:59:19] *** Ash has joined the room
[22:00:57] *** Jef shows as "online"
[22:02:04] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:03:14] *** simon@imaginator.com has joined the room
[22:03:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:03:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:06:25] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:11:27] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:11:35] *** Santiago26 has left the room
[22:12:05] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:16:29] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:17:42] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:17:42] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:17:47] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:17:47] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:18:28] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:18:31] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:19:33] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:20:37] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:20:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:20:51] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:21:32] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:22:43] *** Jef shows as "online"
[22:22:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:25:00] *** Ash shows as "online"
[22:26:34] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:28:39] *** stpeter has left the room
[22:30:06] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:31:38] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[22:33:50] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:33:50] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:34:12] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:34:12] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:36:28] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:36:28] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:36:41] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:38:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:38:14] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:39:11] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:39:11] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:39:24] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:39:32] *** intosi shows as "online"
[22:40:00] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:40:00] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:41:43] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "online"
[22:41:50] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:41:50] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:42:00] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:42:12] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:46:45] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:47:36] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:49:32] *** Ash has left the room
[22:50:09] *** emcho has left the room
[22:50:09] *** emcho has joined the room
[22:50:15] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[22:51:21] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:51:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:51:48] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:53:44] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[22:54:15] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:54:33] *** Jef shows as "online"
[22:54:52] *** simon@imaginator.com has joined the room
[22:54:52] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:56:26] *** simon@imaginator.com shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:56:39] *** simon@imaginator.com has left the room
[23:06:16] *** Lance shows as "away"
[23:06:25] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:07:49] *** Alex has left the room
[23:09:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:13:42] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:18:38] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:19:47] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:22:39] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:23:43] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:27:11] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:27:23] *** Jef shows as "online"
[23:32:22] *** mathieui shows as "xa" and his status message is "zZZzZzZZzz"
[23:32:25] *** mathieui has left the room
[23:33:12] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has joined the room
[23:33:55] *** mathieui has joined the room
[23:50:35] *** martin.hewitt@surevine.com has left the room
[23:54:52] *** dezant has left the room
[23:55:46] *** dezant has joined the room
[23:56:10] *** dezant shows as "xa" and his status message is "دوس أعلــه الگلـب بثـنيـن رجـليك..
ومن توصـل للكرامـه رجلك اكسرهـا!"