Monday, November 23, 2015
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:16:20] <goffi> hi
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[10:21:55] <Ge0rG> hi goffi
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[10:25:59] <dwd> Does anyone know how much XEP-0090, XEP-0091, and for that matter XEP-0078 is actually used in the field?
[10:27:01] <mathieui> I don’t think I’ve ever seen 0078 used
[10:27:42] <Kevish> I would assume that 90 and 91 must have mostly gone away by now. But I could be wrong.
[10:27:49] <Kevish> 78, no clue.
[10:28:30] <dwd> Reason I'm asking is because I've a PR to remove the first two, and a suggestion to remove '78.
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[10:29:39] <Kevish> I'd be inclined to accept the PR. I'm much less sure about 78.
[10:29:58] <mathieui> last time I have needed to care about 90/91 was like 4 years ago, but I have no clue about real-world usage
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[10:39:51] *goffi think a caniuse like site for XMPP would be nice
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[11:04:12] <Flow> dwd: I've removed support for xep78 in Smack a few months ago. As of xep90: Smack understands it, i.e. there is a compatibility layer, but does not "speak" it. xep91 is fully supported.
[11:04:50] <Flow> dwd: I'm all for removing obsolete stuff
[11:05:23] <Flow> You don't want to carry this around for long in open source projects with limited man power.
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[11:06:07] <Flow> Especially for xep78: Removing it made the Smack code so much more readable.
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[11:40:40] <Ge0rG> I was recently asked to recommend end-to-end secure chat clients... is there something besides of conversations? Does Swift support OTR?
[11:41:12] <Tobias> it does not
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[11:44:10] <goffi> We do support OTR
[11:44:28] <goffi> and planning to add OMEMO at some point
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[11:51:35] <Ge0rG> goffi: who is "we"?
[11:51:48] <goffi> Ge0rG: http://salut-a-toi.org
[11:52:12] <goffi> but kind of use is it for ? Desktop ? Mobile ? Web ?
[11:52:23] <Ge0rG> yet another android client... :>
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[11:52:40] <Ge0rG> goffi: I was asked by somebody preparing info material for normal people.
[11:52:42] <goffi> planed but not started yet
[11:52:48] <Ge0rG> I had to say there is no decent XMPP client for iOS....
[11:53:11] <goffi> ok, it's still a bit a early for general audience
[11:53:15] <goffi> we need to stabilise before
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[11:53:37] <goffi> but we are soon. And we can do iOS too, we are more blocked by Apple policy than by technical reasons
[11:54:33] <goffi> s/but we are soon/but we are close/
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[13:36:08] <arune> goffi: the link to the campaign does not work?
[13:36:28] <goffi> hum, it should, I check that
[13:36:36] <arune> I end up here: https://www.arizuka.com/en-gb/projects/libervia/
[13:36:56] <arune> "Désolé, cette page n'existe pas !"
[13:37:01] <goffi> it's working here
[13:37:04] <goffi> en-gb ???
[13:37:12] <goffi> should be /en/
[13:37:19] <goffi> where did you get that link ?
[13:37:42] <intosi> I received the same one from salut-a-toi.org
[13:37:58] <goffi> ouch, I'll check that, thanks for the report
[13:38:31] <intosi> It's using the preferred browser language in the URL.
[13:39:17] <dwd> en-cy-like
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[14:28:42] <goffi> intosi: arune: campain link should be fixed now
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[14:29:26] <intosi> Looks like it works.
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[14:40:24] <goffi> cool
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[14:42:30] <Ge0rG> winfried: FYI: I've got an okay from my boss to dedicate some time to the capptain thing...
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[14:48:07] <Flow> Ge0rG: capptain thing?
[14:48:43] <Ge0rG> Flow: https://xmpp.net/result.php?id=36460 - I noticed a connection to that server from one of the android apps I have installed
[14:49:47] <Flow> Ahh, so you want to investigate on their security?
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[14:50:51] <Ge0rG> Flow: actually I want to see what kind of data they are sniffing out of me
[14:51:03] <Ge0rG> Flow: the goal is to make a security analysis report
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[14:54:06] <Flow> Ge0rG: What's you approach? Hooking into Android via e.g. Xposed?
[14:54:35] <Ge0rG> Flow: Nah, too sophisticated. I'll do a MitM and eat my hat if they check certificates.
[14:54:54] <Flow> Pics or it didn't happen
[14:55:13] <Flow> And Xposed ain't that sophisticated :)
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[14:56:54] <Flow> In the news "Security researcher eats own hat after discovering an app which verifies certificates"
[14:58:08] <Ge0rG> haha
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[15:10:57] <Zash> Ge0rG: You have hats?
[15:11:30] <Ge0rG> Zash: I've got one.
[15:11:48] <Ge0rG> and it's black! MUHAHAHAHAA!
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[15:59:21] <Laura> Hey folks, online ready for the first Board meeting with the new Board
[16:00:18] <stpeter> hi Laura!
[16:00:34] <stpeter> I'm not sure that we told the new board that we're meeting
[16:00:43] <stpeter> and I need to add Arc Riley to the board@xmpp.org list
[16:00:56] <stpeter> so let me do that
[16:01:00] <stpeter> (and remove Adam)
[16:01:11] <Laura> Also add Bear, and remove Simon
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[16:01:19] <Laura> And that is a very good point.
[16:01:56] <Laura> We may have to postpone our first meeting, unless the power of my mind summons everyone needed to this space…
[16:02:42] <Laura> I wonder if we have any Board folk here
[16:02:51] <intosi> Lots of bystanders ;)
[16:03:14] <Laura> Watching me make a total mess of our first meeting…
[16:03:25] <ralphm> I am here
[16:03:47] <ralphm> Watching, too, of course
[16:03:57] <Laura> Thanks Ralphm!
[16:03:58] <stpeter> nod
[16:04:23] <ralphm> seriously, though, I didn't really expect the meeting to happen
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[16:04:36] <ralphm> I was about to ask if the board list had been updated
[16:05:01] <Laura> Then lets leave it for today - stpeter when the list is updated can you confirm, and I will email a meeting request?
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[16:05:18] <Laura> I am useless… can't believe people didn't just guess the right time/date...
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[16:09:58] <dwd> Laura, Emerging from under a warm dog - it'd be worthwhile putting out a call for minute-taking volunteers, too.
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[16:11:50] <Laura> Yup yup, will do. Will draft an email when the Board list is ready, and get ready Trello etc updated and ready for handover to new Board / Chair
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[16:17:41] <stpeter> sorry about that, I was on a bizdev call
[16:18:31] <ralphm> Laura: what do you mean handover
[16:18:38] <stpeter> I've updated the roster for the board@ list - removed Adam, Will, Simon, and Kev (as Council chair) and added Arc, Bear, and Dave
[16:18:54] <intosi> stpeter: make sure to add Dave twice.
[16:18:57] <ralphm> stpeter: thanks!
[16:19:08] <stpeter> intosi: from work and home addresses?
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[16:19:14] <stpeter> intosi: or also to Council?
[16:19:24] <ralphm> intosi: has the Council made Dave chair then? Missed that.
[16:19:32] <intosi> Not as far as I'm aware.
[16:20:46] <Laura> I think the point was to add Dave to both, as he is on both. We will need to add Council Chair when one has been elected
[16:21:50] <stpeter> right exactly
[16:22:05] <stpeter> first Council meeting is next Wednesday, December 1st
[16:22:45] <Laura> Thanks stpeter - I will get the email sent out
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[16:23:46] <stpeter> you're the best!
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[16:29:39] <Kevish> "You have been unsubscribed from the Board mailing list" Sadface.
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[16:30:15] <dwd> ralphm, Gosh, I hope not.
[16:30:17] <Kevish> (I think I'm technically still the Council Chair until a new one is elected, but it probably doesn't matter much)
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[16:30:46] <ralphm> Kevish: there there
[16:31:27] <dwd> Kevish, I don't know actually. I know that's true for Board, where the Chair needn't be an elected Board member. Not so sure it works the same way for Council.
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[16:33:52] <Kevish> I'll resist the temptation to check :)
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[16:36:23] <ralphm> I read the bylaws, and it only says: “The individuals elected to the XMPP Council shall, by an affirmative majority vote of those present and voting, appoint the chair of such Council.”
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[16:36:58] <ralphm> And that all participants must be members.
[16:37:13] <ralphm> So I am willing to go with Kevish' version
[16:37:49] <Kevish> On the topic of scribing, I'm not sure it makes a huge difference (other than to the individual's workload) whether the chair scribes, or it gets farmed out (for either Board or Council).
[16:38:25] <Kevish> It's easier to scribe by going through the logs in your own time than trying to keep up during a meeting anyway, and at that point it makes little difference.
[16:38:51] <Kevish> A significant advantage of using MUCs for this stuff, rather than unlogged comms.
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[16:42:08] <ralphm> Kevish: definitely
[16:42:49] <ralphm> Kevish: I just had a great new use case that should be nice to handle in MUC2: incident alerting rendered in a side bar
[16:43:16] <ralphm> Kevish: so it does not disturb the conversation, but is still highly visible
[16:43:43] <Kevish> It's just another node :)
[16:44:13] <Kevish> So I think it slips nicelyand naturally into the model.
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[16:45:13] <Kevish> stpeter: On that, I *think* I'm waiting for your thoughts on me updating your update to my update to MUC2.
[16:46:08] <Kevish> We could just submit as-is, but some of the changes seem to be significant enough that we wouldn't want to encourage implementation testing of the current doc when we know the changes that're on the way.
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[16:49:10] <stpeter> Kevish: yes I remembered that over the weekend.
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[18:13:23] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:14:20] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[18:17:23] *** Jef shows as "online"
[18:19:28] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:19:54] *** arty has joined the room
[18:22:56] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[18:25:36] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:27:56] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:28:33] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[18:30:59] *** bear shows as "online"
[18:33:56] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:34:41] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[18:35:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:39:02] *** arty has left the room
[18:39:25] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:39:51] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:41:10] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:43:55] *** Zash shows as "online"
[18:45:34] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[18:45:36] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:47:46] *** ralphm has left the room
[18:47:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:50:19] *** waqas has left the room
[18:50:25] *** waqas has joined the room
[18:51:10] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:56:25] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:56:28] *** m&m shows as "online"
[18:58:01] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:58:18] *** ralphm has left the room
[18:59:00] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[18:59:26] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:59:45] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:59:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:59:52] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:00:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:01:00] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:10:59] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:11:00] *** dwd has left the room
[19:11:25] *** arty has joined the room
[19:11:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:13:36] *** dwd has left the room
[19:14:44] *** Alex has left the room
[19:16:44] *** Zash shows as "online"
[19:16:45] *** Zash shows as "online"
[19:16:52] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:18:38] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[19:19:58] *** SouL has joined the room
[19:22:10] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[19:26:06] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:26:17] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:26:46] *** waqas has left the room
[19:26:52] *** waqas has joined the room
[19:26:52] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:28:35] *** Zash shows as "away"
[19:34:27] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:35:42] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:40:58] *** bear shows as "away"
[19:42:47] *** bear shows as "online"
[19:43:03] *** arune has left the room
[19:43:15] *** Lance shows as "online"
[19:45:36] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:45:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:48:45] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:48:49] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:53:23] *** Lance shows as "away"
[19:53:44] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[19:54:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:57:02] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:58:57] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:59:29] *** Zash shows as "online"
[20:04:32] *** Zash shows as "online"
[20:05:22] *** Alex has joined the room
[20:06:22] *** SouL shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:06:22] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:06:30] *** sezuan has left the room
[20:06:35] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[20:06:47] *** andy shows as "online"
[20:07:12] *** sezuan has left the room
[20:07:12] *** sezuan has left the room
[20:07:27] *** Laura has joined the room
[20:08:19] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[20:08:22] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[20:08:49] *** dwd has left the room
[20:08:58] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:10:22] *** Zash shows as "away"
[20:12:08] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[20:13:53] *** Laura has left the room
[20:16:05] *** SouL shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:20:06] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:22:08] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of being idle"
[20:26:22] *** stpeter shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:26:27] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:29:19] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[20:30:05] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:30:15] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:31:38] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[20:38:43] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[20:38:47] *** Lance shows as "online"
[20:40:15] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:40:48] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:42:33] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[20:44:52] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[20:44:52] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[20:45:20] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:47:03] *** Zash shows as "online"
[20:47:46] *** Laura has joined the room
[20:49:02] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:49:16] *** sezuan has left the room
[20:53:54] *** Laura has left the room
[20:53:56] *** Laura has joined the room
[20:57:27] *** foss81405971 has joined the room
[20:59:22] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:00:07] *** Zash shows as "away"
[21:03:36] *** Jef has left the room
[21:04:10] *** sezuan has left the room
[21:04:35] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[21:06:23] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[21:11:46] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:15:17] *** Laura has left the room
[21:17:32] *** Jef has joined the room
[21:18:19] *** bear shows as "away"
[21:21:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:21:47] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:26:57] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:26:59] *** m&m shows as "online"
[21:27:53] *** arty has left the room
[21:32:06] *** bear shows as "online"
[21:32:34] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:36:50] *** arty has joined the room
[21:38:31] *** Zash shows as "online"
[21:39:40] *** SouL shows as "online"
[21:44:49] *** waqas has left the room
[21:44:53] *** waqas has joined the room
[21:49:01] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:49:15] *** Jef shows as "online"
[21:49:27] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[21:50:01] *** SouL shows as "away" and his status message is "Zzzzz"
[21:50:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:52:02] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[21:52:38] *** SamWhited has left the room
[21:53:20] *** Alex has left the room
[21:53:22] *** intosi has left the room
[21:53:22] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:53:32] *** intosi has joined the room
[21:53:48] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:54:24] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[21:54:28] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:54:31] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[22:00:02] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:00:33] *** boothj5 has joined the room
[22:02:58] *** boothj5 has left the room
[22:06:22] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:07:27] *** Zash has left the room
[22:07:29] *** winfried shows as "online"
[22:08:16] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[22:09:33] *** arty has left the room
[22:10:31] *** m&m shows as "online"
[22:12:35] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:12:58] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:13:18] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[22:14:24] *** Jef has left the room
[22:15:34] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[22:18:02] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[22:18:46] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[22:18:55] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:19:04] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:20:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:20:54] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:23:18] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[22:27:15] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "☕️script"
[22:27:26] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:28:38] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[22:30:45] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[22:30:50] *** tim@boese-ban.de has joined the room
[22:37:15] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:38:11] *** waqas has left the room
[22:38:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[22:43:41] *** waqas has joined the room
[22:43:42] *** dwd has left the room
[22:44:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:52:55] *** dwd has left the room
[22:53:29] *** bear shows as "away"
[22:59:19] *** dwd has left the room
[22:59:21] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:00:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:01:33] *** winfried shows as "online"
[23:03:59] *** winfried has left the room
[23:05:22] *** Zash shows as "online"
[23:08:52] *** bear shows as "online"
[23:14:53] *** Nÿco shows as "online"
[23:16:08] *** Nÿco has left the room
[23:17:12] *** Jef has joined the room
[23:20:32] *** dwd has left the room
[23:20:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:40:47] *** dwd has left the room
[23:40:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:48:43] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:53:41] *** m&m shows as "online"
[23:54:25] *** m&m has left the room