Wednesday, January 13, 2016
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:56:31] *** andy shows as "online"
[10:56:39] *** daniel has left the room
[10:56:44] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:57:20] *** daniel has left the room
[10:57:24] *** Steffen Larsen shows as "online"
[10:57:25] *** Steffen Larsen shows as "online"
[10:57:25] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:57:34] *** Jake1984 has joined the room
[11:00:26] *** Steffen Larsen shows as "online"
[11:00:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:00:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:01:35] *** Steffen Larsen has left the room
[11:03:08] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:03:31] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:07:46] *** daurnimator has joined the room
[11:07:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:08:21] *** foss81405971 has joined the room
[11:09:38] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:11:28] *** andy has left the room
[11:11:35] *** andy shows as "online"
[11:11:45] *** waqas has left the room
[11:11:56] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[11:12:25] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:12:26] *** Zash shows as "online"
[11:14:10] *** Kev shows as "online"
[11:14:16] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:14:46] *** ralphm has left the room
[11:15:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:15:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[11:17:02] *** Jake1984 has left the room
[11:18:10] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[11:18:19] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:20:33] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[11:26:45] *** ralphm has left the room
[11:26:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:27:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:28:08] *** foss81405971 has joined the room
[11:28:31] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:30:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:30:31] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:31:40] *** Jake1984 has joined the room
[11:33:46] *** Flow has left the room
[11:33:49] *** Flow has joined the room
[11:34:15] *** waqas has joined the room
[11:34:24] *** waqas has left the room
[11:35:17] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[11:37:22] *** ralphm has left the room
[11:37:34] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:38:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:39:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:42:27] *** daniel has left the room
[11:42:32] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:44:32] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:45:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:45:56] *** ralphm has left the room
[11:46:02] *** Holger has left the room
[11:46:10] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:46:19] *** Holger has joined the room
[11:47:22] *** Holger has left the room
[11:47:53] *** Holger has joined the room
[11:48:33] *** waqas has joined the room
[11:48:47] *** daniel has left the room
[11:48:54] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:50:05] *** daniel has left the room
[11:50:10] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:50:40] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:51:15] *** Holger has left the room
[11:51:53] *** Holger has joined the room
[11:55:10] *** soul has left the room
[11:55:45] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:55:57] *** soul has joined the room
[11:56:25] *** foss81405971 has joined the room
[11:57:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:59:35] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:59:49] *** daniel has left the room
[11:59:52] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:00:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:00:27] *** Flow shows as "online"
[12:02:04] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:02:11] *** Holger has left the room
[12:02:21] *** Holger has joined the room
[12:02:54] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:06:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:07:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:08:49] *** mark.erd has joined the room
[12:09:39] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:10:09] *** Flow shows as "online"
[12:10:24] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "away"
[12:11:35] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:11:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:12:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:13:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:14:42] *** foss81405971 has joined the room
[12:15:13] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:16:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:17:31] *** soul has left the room
[12:17:32] *** winfried has left the room
[12:17:34] *** winfried has joined the room
[12:17:41] *** soul has joined the room
[12:17:56] *** Zash shows as "away"
[12:18:19] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:19:12] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:19:13] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:20:18] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "xa"
[12:20:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:23:37] *** soul has left the room
[12:23:43] *** soul has joined the room
[12:25:13] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:26:01] *** Flow shows as "online"
[12:28:06] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:28:09] *** Ashley Ward shows as "online"
[12:28:13] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:28:13] *** arty shows as "online"
[12:28:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:28:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:31:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:31:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:33:52] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:35:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:35:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:40:14] *** McKael shows as "online"
[12:41:26] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:41:26] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:41:31] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:41:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:41:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:41:53] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:41:56] *** intosi shows as "online"
[12:45:12] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:45:38] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[12:46:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:46:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:47:19] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:47:56] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:49:35] *** Flow shows as "online"
[12:49:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:49:55] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "online"
[12:50:23] *** Jake1984 has left the room
[12:50:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:50:29] *** bjc shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:50:29] *** bjc shows as "online"
[12:52:46] *** foss81405971 has joined the room
[12:53:02] *** bjc has left the room
[12:54:52] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:54:52] *** arty shows as "online"
[12:55:16] *** boothj5 has joined the room
[12:56:16] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:57:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:58:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:59:15] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:01:36] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:01:57] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:02:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:04:11] *** Flow shows as "online"
[13:06:24] *** Jake1984 has joined the room
[13:10:24] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:11:15] *** soul has left the room
[13:11:18] *** soul has joined the room
[13:13:08] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[13:14:55] *** Zash shows as "away"
[13:15:48] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "away"
[13:15:48] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:19:48] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:19:51] *** daurnimator shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:19:57] *** daurnimator shows as "online"
[13:21:53] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "It is already a mess here, so chat with me!"
[13:22:18] *** waqas has left the room
[13:23:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:24:08] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "online"
[13:25:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:28:34] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "fixing barebox"
[13:29:48] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:31:17] *** waqas has joined the room
[13:32:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:34:18] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "away"
[13:35:22] *** mark.erd has left the room
[13:36:02] *** waqas has left the room
[13:36:53] *** mark.erd has joined the room
[13:37:01] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:38:14] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:38:17] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:38:41] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "fixing barebox"
[13:42:59] *** mark.erd has left the room
[13:43:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:43:48] *** mark.erd has joined the room
[13:44:18] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "xa"
[13:46:02] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:46:09] *** Ashley Ward shows as "online"
[13:46:49] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "online"
[13:47:51] *** boothj5 shows as "away" and his status message is "Away from computer for 10 mins."
[13:48:17] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:48:20] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:49:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:51:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:53:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:53:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:54:12] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:56:51] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:56:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[13:58:26] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:59:55] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:02:01] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:02:55] *** McKael shows as "online"
[14:03:41] *** boothj5 shows as "online"
[14:04:06] *** Zash shows as "online"
[14:07:01] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:07:51] *** boothj5 has left the room
[14:08:26] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:09:55] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:10:05] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:10:09] *** Flow shows as "online"
[14:10:11] *** Ashley Ward shows as "online"
[14:11:27] *** Zash shows as "away"
[14:12:19] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[14:13:12] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "It is already a mess here, so chat with me!"
[14:13:14] *** Zash shows as "online"
[14:14:45] *** Kev has left the room
[14:14:49] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:15:26] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:15:26] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:15:30] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:15:30] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:16:26] *** Zash has left the room
[14:17:01] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:20:48] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "away"
[14:20:48] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "fixing barebox"
[14:21:59] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:21:59] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:24:50] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[14:25:11] *** daurnimator has left the room
[14:27:42] *** bjc has joined the room
[14:28:29] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:29:01] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:30:48] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "xa"
[14:31:19] *** stpeter has joined the room
[14:31:37] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "fixing barebox"
[14:32:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:32:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:34:35] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:35:02] *** waqas has joined the room
[14:35:37] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:35:46] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "online"
[14:36:56] *** bjc has left the room
[14:37:01] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n has left the room
[14:37:01] *** thorsten has left the room
[14:37:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:37:54] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:38:01] *** stpeter has left the room
[14:38:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:40:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:40:54] *** thorsten has joined the room
[14:40:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:41:32] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n has joined the room
[14:42:26] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:43:49] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:44:17] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:44:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:45:20] *** bjc has joined the room
[14:45:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:47:40] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:48:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:50:23] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:51:49] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:54:38] *** arty shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:54:38] *** arty shows as "online"
[14:54:39] *** kalkin has left the room
[14:54:46] *** kalkin shows as "online"
[14:55:14] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:55:35] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:01:20] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[15:03:08] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[15:03:10] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[15:03:37] *** narcode has left the room
[15:04:35] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:05:59] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[15:06:03] *** Alex shows as "online"
[15:06:25] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "away"
[15:07:00] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:07:02] *** Ashley Ward shows as "online"
[15:07:33] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[15:07:52] *** narcode has joined the room
[15:09:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:11:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:12:26] *** mark.erd has left the room
[15:12:26] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:14:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:15:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:16:03] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[15:16:17] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:16:25] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "xa"
[15:16:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:17:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:22:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:24:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:26:25] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:30:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:30:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:31:20] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "online"
[15:34:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:35:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:36:03] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[15:39:00] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[15:39:42] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:40:00] *** arty has left the room
[15:40:00] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[15:42:55] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "away"
[15:43:31] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[15:44:32] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "It is already a mess here, so chat with me!"
[15:45:04] *** bjc has left the room
[15:46:08] *** waqas has left the room
[15:47:12] *** Lance has joined the room
[15:47:12] *** Lance shows as "online"
[15:47:18] *** waqas has joined the room
[15:48:29] *** mark.erd has joined the room
[15:48:34] *** stpeter has left the room
[15:48:58] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[15:49:31] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[15:49:42] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:49:54] *** waqas has left the room
[15:52:06] *** Kev shows as "online"
[15:52:55] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "xa"
[15:54:04] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:54:08] *** Flow shows as "online"
[15:54:13] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[15:55:22] *** Martin has joined the room
[15:57:10] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:57:20] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[15:58:35] *** stpeter has left the room
[15:59:12] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:59:13] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[15:59:14] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[16:00:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:02:16] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:03:28] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n has left the room
[16:04:13] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[16:05:57] *** daniel shows as "online"
[16:07:28] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:11:42] *** intosi has left the room
[16:11:58] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "It is already a mess here, so chat with me!"
[16:13:23] *** sezuan shows as "xa"
[16:14:35] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:14:38] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[16:14:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:14:41] *** intosi has joined the room
[16:14:44] *** Zash has joined the room
[16:14:45] *** Zash shows as "online"
[16:14:53] *** Ashley Ward shows as "online"
[16:16:02] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[16:17:24] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[16:17:28] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:18:55] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:20:02] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[16:20:51] *** Alex shows as "online"
[16:22:02] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "It is already a mess here, so chat with me!"
[16:22:23] *** bear shows as "online"
[16:25:49] *** mark.erd has left the room
[16:26:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:28:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:28:42] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:32:50] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:38:11] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:38:45] *** arty has joined the room
[16:41:04] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:41:37] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:41:55] *** Flow shows as "online"
[16:42:20] *** Flow has left the room
[16:42:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:43:31] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:43:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:44:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:47:49] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Afwezig"
[16:48:24] *** soul has left the room
[16:49:18] *** daniel shows as "online"
[16:50:22] *** Martin has left the room
[16:50:23] *** Martin has joined the room
[16:50:43] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:51:03] *** soul has joined the room
[16:51:18] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[16:51:22] *** Alex shows as "online"
[16:52:35] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[16:53:52] *** Lance shows as "away"
[16:55:56] *** soul has left the room
[16:56:01] *** soul has joined the room
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[17:00:07] <dwd> Board, anyone? I think Laura is still in a meeting that's running over.
[17:00:10] <ralphm> hi
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[17:03:45] <dwd> Just us, then.
[17:03:52] <dwd> bear, ?
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[17:07:18] <dwd> Oh, well. ralphm - anything happening with the Summit? And anything you need help with?
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[17:07:42] <ralphm> nothing I can think of
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[17:08:23] <ralphm> Just got some stickers delivered
[17:08:48] <Kev> Excellent. We like stickers
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[17:11:22] <ralphm> They look great
[17:12:32] <andy> http://upload.strb.org:8081/bOdqEobC58xhgApH2NtkknvDG9s/uAzVHRT6YH8q4/97f14f1b7506484fa57532112ca25509.jpg
[17:12:38] *andy is bringing stickers, too
[17:12:43] <andy> :)
[17:13:02] <andy> I'll be at FOSDEM on saturday, if anybody wants an OMEMO fish sticker :P
[17:13:04] <SamWhited> andy: Now I'm really sad I won't be there!
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[17:13:18] <andy> SamWhited, give me your address and I'll mail you some
[17:13:35] <SamWhited> andy: Appreciated, but that's okay, probably not worth it to mail them all the way from the other side of the pond :)
[17:14:09] <SamWhited> (and I'm moving this weekend and am not entirely sure what my new address is anyways…)
[17:14:12] <kalkin> andy: they look awesome!
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[17:16:40] <ralphm> SamWhited: never to late to book a ticket
[17:16:45] <ralphm> too late
[17:17:10] *SamWhited tries to decide if an OMEMO sticker and some ribs are worth ~900 USD…
[17:17:11] <kalkin> SamWhited: Yeah we all could share a beer in bruessel on saturday :)
[17:17:47] <kalkin> SamWhited: let your company pay it. It's hmm .... an educational trip!
[17:17:52] <kalkin> :)
[17:18:19] <SamWhited> kalkin: They might, I haven't asked; I'm actually just really busy right now. I probably should have asked at least a month in advance though
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[17:18:47] <ralphm> SamWhited: so no hipchat people at all?
[17:19:09] <SamWhited> ralphm: I don't think so; I was hoping the Jitsi guys were going to go, but I think they said something about doing something else that week too
[17:19:18] <SamWhited> We'll see; I'll ask my boss about it.
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[17:19:48] <kalkin> SamWhited: 👍
[17:19:57] <ralphm> Jitsi used to do the Lounge with us, really sad they cancelled for this year
[17:20:14] <SamWhited> ralphm: Yah, I think they were pretty upset about that too. I know Emil was looking forward to it.
[17:20:47] *ralphm nods
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[17:22:19] <winfried> ralphm: who will be contacting aloft?
[17:22:53] <thorsten> Is here a party planning?
[17:22:54] <ralphm> I'd be happy to do that, but the list on the wiki isn't really filling up. Unless this is all, which would be disappointing
[17:23:25] <winfried> last call on the mailing list?
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[17:24:01] <ralphm> winfried: yeah
[17:24:09] <ralphm> I'll try to do that today
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[17:26:49] <andy> SamWhited, international postage is literally under 1 euro. I don't mind. It would probably just take a while to get there. But I've printed up way more stickers than I can possibly use anyway ;)
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[17:28:16] <SamWhited> andy: Awesome! Sounds good then.
[17:28:31] <thorsten> andy: omemo stickers? ;)
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[18:50:53] <Flow> dwd: how are PEP nodes with access-model roster related to privacy lists? Or did I get your comment in council@ wrong?
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[18:57:00] <Lance> Flow: servers generally already have an implementation for doing access controls based on roster groups, because of pep/pubsub. so it shouldn't be too much additional complexity for a server to also implement roster group blocking if that is added to the blocking xep
[18:58:05] <Flow> Lance: I see, the question still is if we want that
[18:58:13] *Lance nods
[18:58:21] <Flow> I'd like the idea of an ad-hoc based blocking xep
[18:58:39] <Flow> so servers can implement what they want
[18:59:07] <Flow> and the client UI would be more or less similar, no matter which client is used
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[18:59:40] <Flow> that, and remove the "list" from privacy lists and then most people would be happy I believe
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[19:00:37] <Flow> What I wonder is, if we need a mechanism to inform the user about blocked stanzas/messages, and if so, how it should look like
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[19:00:56] <Zash> Flow: What direction?
[19:01:14] <Lance> that is already in the blocking xep, iirc, for outgoing things that are to blocked users
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[19:01:56] <Lance> i would not expect to be informed that someone blocked you, if you try sending a stanza to them
[19:02:08] <Flow> Zash: incoming
[19:02:21] <Flow> i.e. a blocked entity send you a message
[19:02:24] <Lance> oh, that direction
[19:02:35] <Zash> That ... that's weird
[19:02:57] <Flow> but I always believe that the solution should be similar to what we do with email these days
[19:03:00] <Flow> i.e. a spam folder
[19:03:10] <Flow> and that's most likely not related to blocking
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[19:03:49] <Zash> Did y'all see my post to the list?
[19:03:57] <Flow> because if you block someone you usually really do not want to receive anything from him/her
[19:04:17] <Flow> Zash: hard to tell :)
[19:04:35] <Zash> well, it was to operators becasue I replied to stpeter who posted to operators
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[19:04:44] <Zash> Probably would have made sense to reply to standards@ too
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[19:07:02] <Lance> Zash: +1, the current reporting mechanisms are not really aimed for use by end users
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[19:09:12] <Zash> XEP-0287 which was mentioned seems to assume we already have the filtering in place
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[19:10:30] <Flow> Zash: I do believe you can use xep287 without filtering
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[19:11:14] <Flow> a server could always add <report/> and let the client report spim
[19:11:24] <Flow> or maybe even report spim over s2s
[19:11:36] <Flow> isn't that what you wanted? an easy way to report spim?
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[19:11:41] <Zash> I'm a bit tired but it is not obvious to me how that would work
[19:12:19] <Zash> I was thinking something simple like this https://www.zash.se/simply-report-spam.html
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[19:13:29] <Lance> +1. Add a user enterable description/reason, and maybe allow forwarding the original stanza
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[19:16:01] <Flow> or use the stanza-id to link the original stanza
[19:17:13] <Flow> Zash: that does look similar to xep287 spim report
[19:17:29] <Zash> I wrote this before I saw 287
[19:17:49] <Flow> (which should also use xep359 IDs to link the spim stanza)
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[19:18:02] <Zash> Flow: IDs assume that the server has those stored.
[19:18:10] <Zash> I don't want to assume that
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[19:19:32] <Zash> I also don't want to attach more data to every stanza if it can be avoided
[19:19:45] <Flow> optional
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[19:22:27] <Lance> The main thing lacking from 287 is optional user provided feedback, and ability to send a report without requiring a server to stamp additional data into stanzas for that purpose.
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[19:23:21] <Lance> Its about more than just spam, we need a way for users to report harassment and other policy violations that aren't strictly spim
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[19:23:40] <Lance> Which might not be the result of a single, particular stanza
[19:23:57] <Zash> Yeah
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[19:25:41] <Lance> Arguably covered by http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0157.html
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[19:26:30] <Lance> but it would be nice to have a more structured query, to ensure that the abuser jid is included correctly
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[19:27:22] <Zash> Sounds like what I had in mind for the thing above :)
[19:27:57] <Lance> yep! just add a user comment field and i'd +1 it
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[19:28:17] <Lance> the remaining question would be where to send it
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[19:32:30] <Zash> To something that supports it
[19:32:56] <Zash> Either the bare server jid, your own account or maybe a remote thing that accepts reports
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[19:36:57] <dwd> Flow, You've got to do group-lookup by jid to do the access-model anyway, so the privacy list additions in terms of code would not be huge.
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[19:38:38] <dwd> Zash, Lance - I'd seriously look at STIX/IODEF for the reporting. I really don't like reinventing the wheel, and given they're both XML anyway it makes sense.
[19:42:09] <Zash> dwd: But NIH!! And huge XML spec
[19:42:48] <fippo> dwd: but isn't xml out of fashion?
[19:42:54] <Lance> yeah, i'd prefer to keep things simpler for clients to implement / users to use. use iodef/stix for inter-server reporting
[19:44:21] <Zash> You could write an informational spec that describes the absolute minimum of IODEF you would need as a client
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[21:02:50] <Flow> I guess that absolut minimum would be something like xep287 reporting or simply-report-spam.
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[21:13:51] <ralphm> and/or creating a mapping to it from a custom protocol you define. We did something similar with things like geoloc
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[21:16:59] <stpeter> I'll note that we did have a bespoke format for the inter-server reporting earlier on and I changed it to IODEF because of standards compliance & existing code libraries. Zash is right that we could define a slimmed down profile of IODEF for client-to-server reporting, although a simple command that forwards a message and flags it as abusive doesn't seem completely wrong.
[21:19:06] *ralphm nods
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[21:19:54] <Flow> don't forget about the use case where you just want to report a malicious jid
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[21:21:11] <Lance> Given the importance of the feature, I'm in favor of whatever will lead to clients and servers actually implementing it, and a simpler spec seems best for that.
[21:21:14] <Flow> such report should come optionally with a stanza in question (or a link to it's id) and a more detailed reason (spam, harrasment, fraud, ...)
[21:21:37] <Flow> Lance: exactly my thought
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[21:22:43] <stpeter> sure, I don't disagree
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[21:23:34] <stpeter> Flow: don't we know that a JID is malicious based on a particular stanza? (message, presence invite, etc.)
[21:24:21] <Flow> stpeter: not sure, if there is always a stanza to report at hand
[21:25:30] <Flow> but anyway the information that matters most is the JID, all other information (stanza, exact reason, ...) should be optional IMHO
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[21:27:16] <stpeter> Sure.
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[21:48:56] <stpeter> Flow: yes, I think you're right - and let's keep the reporting as simple as possible
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[21:49:56] <Kev> > Flow: don't we know that a JID is malicious based on a particular stanza? (message, presence invite, etc.)

Not really. <body>Hi there!</body> isn't malicious. Once. By the hundredth time they probably are as a set.
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[22:36:36] <Lance> I've started some conversations with people working on abuse handling problems on various social media, and have gotten some useful feedback that I'll write up and send to standards@
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[22:38:18] <Lance> One of the interesting points is that blocking really needs a sharing component to really do the job of mitigating/preventing abuse. otherwise the user has to receive & react to everything. (Which could be a substantial amount on other networks)
[22:39:35] <Lance> So at minimum, opening up my blocklist to let people on my roster see it would be a big help. Even better would be a way to make incorporating friends' block lists automatic (subscriptions?)
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[22:46:30] <stpeter> huh interesting
[22:50:25] <Lance> federation makes things harder, of course :/, but there are other things to automatically filter on, such as age of accounts
[22:50:47] <Lance> most of that information would only be available inside each service, though
[22:50:59] <fippo> age of account... we tried that in psyc ~2003 lance :-)
[22:51:39] <Lance> fippo: as is tradition
[22:51:40] <fippo> it is still somewhat useful if the remote server is not evil. e.g. the case of a "public server" that gets abused
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[22:54:12] <stpeter> I don't think that most XMPP servers have kept track of that
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[22:54:25] <stpeter> although this account I'm using goes back to 1999 :P
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[22:55:33] <narcode> :D
[22:55:37] <narcode> nice
[22:55:49] <stpeter> I'm still intrigued by reputation systems but I don't know if they're truly useful in practice ... http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0275.html
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[22:57:52] <narcode> look complicated but could be really accurate“>For each room in which the user is banned (XEP-0045 "outcast"), divide the room's reputation by 10 and decrement the user's score by the result”
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[22:59:37] <Lance> my server always returns a score of 100 for me, naturally :p
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[23:02:48] <Lance> but I think that aside from 1) making it easy for users to report and 2) making it easier to populate block lists based on my network of friends, its a service operations problem, and not a protocol one
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[23:03:42] <Lance> as in, new protocols won't solve things. operational work is needed
[23:04:13] <fippo> so apparently i've been logged in five years with one account and four years with the other since that feature was implemented. but that is way too little, probably there is a bug in t he counting!
[23:05:42] <fippo> reputation systems can make sense if we assume that it is evil clients abusing an open server
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[23:17:42] <stpeter> fippo: I think we have a mix of evil servers (less common) and evil clients abusing open servers
[23:17:59] <stpeter> e.g., I'm pretty sure that buycc.me was/is an evil server
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[23:25:47] <fippo> right. but there is quite some value in "public servers" (I have a hard time avoiding the term "open relay") coordinating against spam from evil clients
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[23:44:49] <stpeter> yes
[23:45:14] <stpeter> by public server you mean a server that allows essentially anyone to register an account?
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[23:52:27] <fippo> yeah.
[23:57:12] <stpeter> nod
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