Tuesday, January 19, 2016
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[11:12:10] <Kev> Right, voted!
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[11:13:00] <Alex> (Y)
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[11:28:20] <Ge0rG> it's awesome to see how diverse our crowd is
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[11:35:51] <goffi> hi, I have submitted a protoxep last week-end, can I have a confirmation that it was well received by somebody subscribed on editor@ please ? Thanks :)
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[12:24:41] <thorsten> goffi: which protoxep?
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[12:31:49] <goffi> thorsten: jid mention
[12:32:55] <thorsten> Cool
[12:33:17] <goffi> thorsten: there is a rendered version there: http://www.goffi.org/public/xmpp/xep/xep-proto-jid-mention.html
[12:33:28] <thorsten> goffi: let me check
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[12:36:58] <thorsten> And it has been acknowledged by xmpp.org?
[12:37:14] <SouL> Interesting
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[12:38:45] <goffi> thorsten: I have sent id last week-end, but no response and didn't see it proposed on standard@, that's why I'm asking here
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[12:38:50] <goffi> it*
[12:39:16] <ThUnD3r|Gr33n> that's a shame! it sounds fine so far for me :)
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[12:42:22] <goffi> editor@ are probably busy, it's not a big deal if it takes a couple of days, I just want to be sure is was received...
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[13:25:48] <Kev> Did you send in the appropriate way? Email to editor@ with 'XEP' in the subject?
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[13:38:09] <SamWhited> goffi: it was received.
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[14:01:38] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[14:05:35] <goffi> Kev: yes
[14:05:39] <goffi> SamWhited: oki perfect, thanks
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[14:09:42] <edhelas> hello everyone, I'm having a look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0369.html it's quite interesting but I'm wondering how all theses subscriptions will be listed for the clients
[14:09:57] <edhelas> to display the "subscribed rooms"
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[14:14:32] <Kev> edhelas: You'd combine it with the pubsub-account stuff that dwd's working on.
[14:14:54] <edhelas> Kev, you have a link for it ?
[14:15:45] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:17:32] <Kev> Dave wrote a mail to standards@ with an outline, but there's no XEP yet.
[14:17:35] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:18:04] *edhelas will search the email
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[14:21:26] <Kev> The 'how do you tell what you're subscribed to' is a generic pubsub problem without the pubsub-account stuff, but MIX combined with pubsub-account is going to be rather nice.
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[15:01:30] *** Flow shows as "online"
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[15:02:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[15:17:09] <Flow> What should one use for an namespace not related to an XEP? xmlns='http://projectname.org'? xmlns='projectname.org'?
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[15:18:13] <MattJ> You can do, yes
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[15:18:24] <MattJ> You might want to use "http://projectname.org/something"
[15:18:32] <MattJ> so you can have different values for different protocols
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[15:21:27] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[15:21:28] *** Alex shows as "online"
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[15:24:26] <Flow> MattJ: I do wonder how important the scheme is
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[15:24:39] <Flow> especially in times of https everywhere
[15:24:51] <Zash> Flow: It's an opaque string
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[15:25:37] <Flow> Zash: i wonder how opaque it is, there is http://www.iana.org/assignments/xml-registry/xml-registry.xhtml
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[15:26:07] <Flow> but I can't find any rules or an registration for "urn:xmpp" which is used by todays XEPs
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[15:26:32] <Flow> nor any saying that all strings with the "urn:xmpp:" belong to the XSF
[15:26:32] <Zash> That seems to be the IETFs namespaces
[15:26:45] <Flow> so I assume it's just convention and a requirement
[15:26:54] <Flow> *and not a requirement
[15:28:03] <Zash> Aha
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[15:28:10] <Zash> -rfc 4854
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[15:28:30] <Zash> -rfc 4854
[15:28:35] <Bunneh> Zash: A Uniform Resource Name (URN) Namespace for Extensions to the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP).
P. Saint-Andre. April 2007. (Status: INFORMATIONAL) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC4854)
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4854
[15:28:38] <Zash> http://www.iana.org/assignments/urn-namespaces/urn-namespaces.xhtml#urn-namespaces-1
[15:29:42] <Flow> aaahhh
[15:29:49] <Flow> Zash: ta :)
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[15:42:59] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[15:45:25] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:49:04] *** Ashley Ward shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:49:36] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[15:50:17] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[15:52:59] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
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[15:59:50] *** bear shows as "online"
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[16:10:41] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
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[16:17:19] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[16:17:57] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:17:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:18:04] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
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[16:20:25] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:20:40] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
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[16:22:54] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[16:25:12] *** intosi shows as "online"
[16:25:38] *** intosi shows as "online"
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[16:28:04] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[16:33:03] <Zash> What's the implementation status of the latest MAM?
[16:33:06] <Zash> in clients
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[16:34:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[16:37:22] <Flow> Zash: Why do you ask?
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[16:38:03] <Zash> I've had a patch for a version bump laying around since forever and wonder when would be a good time to update
[16:38:24] <Flow> I personally wait for https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/82 to get merged until I continue Smack's MAM impl
[16:38:25] <intosi> Server-side?
[16:39:21] <Zash> Yes
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[16:40:02] <intosi> It was fairly easy to support both, I found.
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[16:40:28] <Zash> Our Carbons and 198 impl already do that
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[16:40:39] <Zash> Still don't really like ti
[16:40:41] <Zash> Still don't really like it
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[16:44:39] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[16:45:42] <Tobias> are there any news regarding the planned group booking for the summit hotel?
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[16:49:37] *** sezuan shows as "xa"
[16:50:14] *** ThUnD3r|Gr33n shows as "xa"
[16:50:26] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:50:26] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:54:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[16:56:54] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
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[16:58:08] *** bjc shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[17:00:25] <Kev> Tobias: I believe everyone's just been booking it themselves.
[17:00:51] <Tobias> ok...would be nice if it would have been communicated
[17:00:58] <Kev> Yeah.
[17:01:24] <Tobias> but still the same hotel, right?
[17:01:57] <Kev> Yes.
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[17:05:36] <Tobias> seems to be sold out for wendsday to sunday..then i'll look for something else
[17:05:56] <Kev> :/
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[17:15:59] *** Ashley Ward shows as "online"
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[17:26:15] *** Ashley Ward has left the room
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[17:31:17] <mathieui> re: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/content-types.html
I don’t like it much, but if this is required for something, it would be nice to have a disco that actually tells which content-types are supported
[17:33:48] <mathieui> instead of sending useless data that will be discarded by the other party
[17:34:23] <Zash> +1
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[17:35:14] <Zash> Eg <feature var="urn:xmpp:content#text/plain"/> etc?
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[17:36:00] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:36:33] <Zash> intosi: The change to update is small but the change needed to do both would be large and ugly :(
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[17:37:21] <mathieui> Zash, yeah
[17:39:38] <MattJ> I really don't like it
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[17:49:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[17:52:45] <Zash> 'it' suddenly became ambiguos
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[17:53:33] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:53:35] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:54:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[17:57:40] *** Tobias shows as "online"
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[18:03:55] <goffi> I don't like it neither, it will bring more fragmentation
[18:05:01] <goffi> we use markdown and we convert to XHTML, but what should I do if somebody use markdown as text? Use XHTML version or text?
[18:05:19] <goffi> and probably other formats will come, other flavour of markdown
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[18:07:56] <MattJ> Indeed
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[18:10:06] <Zash> MattJ: What about the JSON container XEP?
[18:10:53] <MattJ> Machine-to-machine, not IM
[18:11:36] <MattJ> Humans are good at interpreting the same data, in different formats, in the same way
[18:12:14] <MattJ> i.e. XHTML-IM vs Markdown vs plain text with no markdown, are all going to be slightly different but still readable
[18:12:53] <MattJ> The user's client does not need to know the difference
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[18:14:26] <Zash> I kinda thougt they wanted XHTML-IM without XHTML-IM, by having the receiving client render it from Markdown
[18:14:49] <MattJ> I think so
[18:15:03] <MattJ> Which implies having multiple formats for conveying formatted text on the wire
[18:15:12] <MattJ> > 17:38:33 MattJ> I really don't like it
[18:15:25] <Zash> Same could be said about XHTML-IM :)
[18:15:35] <Zash> Or well, sorta
[18:15:38] <MattJ> We have plain, and we have formatted
[18:15:58] <Zash> Weirdness happens if they have different actual content
[18:15:59] <MattJ> Markdown can be both, but it's not a third category
[18:16:13] <xnyhps> > Every XMPP Extension Protocol specification must contain a section entitled "Security Considerations"
[18:16:38] <moparisthebest> add to that no 2 clients would use the same parser and would end up with wildly different displayed representations
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[18:17:29] <Zash> There can be only Pandoc!
[18:18:29] <MattJ> (Zash is currently in love with pandoc)
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[18:18:43] <moparisthebest> that'd be my preference but someone would complain that it's not a standard and has a license they don't like :)
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[18:21:07] <moparisthebest> personally I don't want instant messages long enough to require formatting, but I understand there are different use cases
[18:21:44] <Zash> msnmessenger.jpg
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[18:36:15] <MattJ> Booked for Brussels (Aloft)
[18:36:32] <MattJ> Note I won't be arriving until late on Thursday, so will miss summit day 1
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[18:51:31] <Flow> mathieui: I do believe that would be against the idea of conent hints: <body> content is always human readable, the hint is just to indicate a particular encoding
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[18:53:17] <Flow> so I would simply remove § 2.2 and § 2.3 from the content-types xep
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[19:04:40] <SamWhited> Memberbot really needs an "Aprove all" button
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[19:05:37] <Zash> yes yes | xmppsend memberbot
[19:06:38] <SamWhited> "yes " * 17
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[19:07:32] <MattJ> Memberbot really does not need an "approve all" button :)
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[19:08:44] <SamWhited> *shrug* If people care enough to take the time to apply for membership that's pretty much all I'm looking for
[19:10:54] <MattJ> You are entitled to your own acceptance criteria, but I'm not comfortable with accepting without reading the application they submitted
[19:13:04] <SamWhited> That's fair
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[19:32:03] <Kev> Particularly that there was one ineligible application this year ;)
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[19:36:53] <Kev> So, if the Aloft doesn't have any rooms left for XSF people, should we be thinking of being elsewhere?
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[19:37:43] <SamWhited> What makes someone ineligible?
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[19:38:09] <SamWhited> I don't even understand the point of membership except to prevent someone from skewing a vote by having all their friends vote
[19:38:37] <Kev> SamWhited: Dave didn't include email address/JID. Presumably deliberately because the XEP didn't get advanced, or such.
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[19:39:08] <Kev> According to the wiki, almost no-one has booked the Aloft, which suggests, given there were no rooms when Tobi just tried to book, that the majority of people won't be able to be there.
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[19:39:28] <Zash> Or, the majority of people haven't updated that page
[19:39:34] <Kev> Or that.
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[19:42:40] <Tobias> Kev, if the wiki page represents the reality, that is :)
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[19:43:29] <intosi> Wed - Thu isn't available, but Thu - Sun is.
[19:44:08] <Tobias> intosi, yup..thu - sun is...but who knows how many :) but at the current time it'll probably be the same everywhere
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[19:46:00] <intosi> Brussels in that weekend can be a bit of a challenge this late.
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