Wednesday, December 28, 2016
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:11:42] <ralphm> Tobias: only one child element is allowed.
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[08:36:12] <Tobias> Why is that?
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[08:43:32] <Tobias> ralphm, where does it say so in XEP-0060?
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[08:48:31] <ralphm> Well, 7.1.3.5.
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[08:50:09] <ralphm> And the schema. maxOccurs defaults to 1.
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[08:55:18] <Tobias> wonder what the reason was for that restriction
[08:55:43] <ralphm> There was a lot of debate on this when we specced this, but consensus was that a single element made the most sense.
[08:56:52] <ralphm> Treating a single thing is easier than multiple things that belong together somehow. If you need additional grouping, you can use a wrapper element.
[08:58:48] <Tobias> so the recommendation is to do <item><entry><x>here the two elements</x><entry></item>
[08:59:30] <ralphm> Yeah. Do you have a concrete use case for multiple elements?
[09:00:48] <ralphm> Actually, <entry/> is your wrapper, and x might appear twice.
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[09:06:01] <Tobias> see the conversation of goffi and myself yesterday...the idea was to attach info to a pubsub atom item about the images mentioned in the item https://q.zash.se/5e4d0b8702c3.txt
[09:06:37] <Tobias> so that a receiver would get further hints where to fetch the image ni:///sha3-256;wqfDv8OGw7jCvx7Dl2ZRw4FHVsKgYcOWYsO14oKsw79Nw6Q7ScO64oCaw5gKS-KCrMO4Q0o from
[09:07:34] <Tobias> but since the new stanza isn't part of atom i'd have to create a new entry type, that allows atom and other children
[09:09:17] <goffi> ralphm: indeed the issue there is that entry is from atom namespace, while <reference> and <media-sharing> are XMPP
[09:09:32] <goffi> and XEP-0277 already use <entry> as item child
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[09:10:41] <ralphm> Why not include the meta-data inside the Atom element document?
[09:11:30] <ralphm> Atom allows for arbitrary child elements
[09:12:00] <Tobias> it does? that would work for me
[09:12:12] <Tobias> goffi, what's your opionion on that?
[09:12:46] <goffi> I didn't knew it allows arbitraty element, in this case it works for me to
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[09:13:05] <Tobias> great :)
[09:13:10] <goffi> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-6.1
[09:13:13] <goffi> neat
[09:13:19] <goffi> thanks ralphm, didn't knew that
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[09:13:49] <Tobias> ralphm, thx for the hint
[09:13:50] <ralphm> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-4.1.2
[09:13:59] <ralphm> Right
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[09:17:49] <Ge0rG> I remember another usecase for multiple items was concurrent update of bookmarks
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[09:20:15] <ralphm> The trouble with concurrent updates or batching is that error handling becomes more complex. This is why batch functionality has been removed in various parts of XEP-0060.
[09:20:56] <ralphm> If you still want that, you can handle it in your application-specific code.
[09:21:17] <Ge0rG> it shouldn't be too hard to edit different items from different clients. but if everything is stored in the same item, race conditions have a more severe effect.
[09:23:01] <ralphm> That's more a problem with how bookmarks work, rather that PubSub itself
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[09:39:33] <goffi> Ge0rG, ralphm: we (with edehlas and chris deering) have started to work on a new protoXEP for bookmarks, which would actually be a general list of uri, you can check https://lite5.framapad.org/p/OlHwr5GBlY
[09:39:50] <goffi> one of the goal is to fix the one item for all issue
[09:40:04] <goffi> the other is to have correct handling of non MUC uri
[09:40:10] <goffi> and also nice things like tags
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[09:42:27] <goffi> it cool be use not only for bookmark, but anywhere where a list or uris if useful
[09:42:33] <goffi> could*
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[09:44:26] <goffi> is a bit stalled at the moment because we are all busy, be we could defenitely propose a first protoXEP quickly
[09:46:18] <ralphm> goffi: right. Cool
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[11:18:39] <edhelas> hey, I'm at the 33c3, if someone else is here, ping me, would be nice to meet :)
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[11:23:01] <Ge0rG> edhelas: Link Mauve and daniel should be there, somewhere
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[11:37:43] <Link Mauve> mathieui, edhelas, daniel, Tobias, kalkin, I’m around Saal G, just finished eating.
[11:37:49] <Link Mauve> And you?
[11:38:02] <Tobias> just on my way to the CCH
[11:38:37] *kalkin and Daniel are going too hall 2
[11:38:50] <kalkin> We are around saal g right now too
[11:39:08] <edhelas> I'm in the hacker room, just in front of the TARDIS and the wooden dome
[11:39:26] <Link Mauve> kalkin, where around Saal G?
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[11:40:24] <Link Mauve> Had a chat with koolfy, about OTR and OX and OMEMO and related as well as unrelated stuff. ^^
[11:40:50] <kalkin> Link Mauve: I'm currently outside where in the direction of saal1
[11:41:51] <Link Mauve> For hacking the world?
[11:42:04] <kalkin> The stairs down past the digital courage shop and right
[11:42:26] <mathieui> that threema talk was a bit disappointing, btw
[11:42:50] <mathieui> although there are some nice ideas on trust that could work even without their central server
[11:43:31] <kalkin> Link Mauve: Welcome to the Anthropocene?
Wednesday, December 28, 2016 1:00 PM, Saal2
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[14:13:58] <Tobias> edhelas: so where are you about?
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[14:19:33] <edhelas> Tobias, I'm at the Raumzeit Labor table in the dev room
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[14:20:18] <Tobias> edhelas: let me see if I can find that
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[19:35:03] <Tobias> goffi, so the example would look something like this http://ayena.de/files/xeps/sims.xhtml#usecases-microblogging
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