XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2017-01-23


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  162. Guus Does anyone have experience with (XMPP-based) solutions that lets you add "chat" to existing web-based platforms?
  163. Zash Like converse.js?
  164. Guus I'm looking at stuff like CoBrowser and SmartSupp - those appear to be oriented towards "chat with one of our employees" - rather than allowing users to chat amongst themselves.
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  166. Guus Converse.JS is "simply" a web-based client. I'm wondering about a one-stope solution, of sorts, that includes server and client components
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  169. Flow Guus: isn't that what Jive's workgroup xep152 does?
  170. Guus Flow: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0152.html "Reachability Address"? Are you referring to the Workgroup stuff (the FastPath implementation)?
  171. Flow Guus: typo, sorry, xep142,
  172. Guus Flow: that's more of the "ask our employee" stuff, for which I can find various service providers. I'm interested in providers that put more focus on the user-to-user / community aspect
  173. Guus (Yeah, 142 is the FastPath XEP, indeed)
  174. Guus I'm trying to find a list of pros and cons, to compare "run your own server + chat implementations" vs. "use some kind of online service provider that you can integrate with"
  175. Ge0rG I wonder why Kaiwa requires a node.js server to run... can't it operate like converse as a client-only thing?
  176. Zash Yeah, why must all web clients require so much stuff nowdays?
  177. daniel Ge0rG: I think it's just the webserver that serves the js files
  178. edhelas Zash, what is "so much stuff" for you ?
  179. Guus why host things statically if you can make it overcomplicated, right? :)
  180. Zash Anything besides a static file server and a browser
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  182. Ge0rG daniel: it also seems to contain some crazy ldap frontend!? https://github.com/digicoop/kaiwa/blob/master/server.js
  183. daniel Ge0rG: I think the fornever fork got rid of that
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  185. Ge0rG daniel: "You'll need Node.js 4.0+ and npm 3+." from fornever...
  186. daniel Ge0rG: afaik that's just packaging and dependency resolving and stuff like that. Not actually running it
  187. Ge0rG daniel: the README is rather short in that regard.
  188. Ge0rG daniel: I can imagine that the server component does the socket forwarding to the actual server as well, due to typical web browser cross-domain limitations
  189. Ge0rG I'm looking for a web client that doesn't look ugly and supports at least a bunch of useful ("modern") things.
  190. Ge0rG Converse is just a popup, not a full page, candy is not beautiful, and kaiwa requires nodejs
  191. mathieui Ge0rG, movim?
  192. mathieui well, it’s not all-"web" so it might not fit
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  195. Zash Is there someone we can throw money at in exchange for a no-bullshit modern web client?
  196. Ge0rG mathieui: what does 'not all-"web"' mean?
  197. Guus yes. But it's likely going to be more money that you're willing to spend...
  198. daniel Zash: I'm definitely willing to participate in the money throwing process
  199. daniel I've been unsuccessful in finding someone who is able to get kaiwa into a usable state though
  200. mathieui Ge0rG, I mean, it’s an xmpp client, but it’s has a server and a client part too
  201. mathieui -’s
  202. Kev Swift-Web is done with a server component, too.
  203. Zash Ge0rG: What's ugly about Candy btw?
  204. Ge0rG Zash: it's very minimalistic
  205. Zash Kev: Never heard of
  206. Zash Ge0rG: I like minimalistic
  207. Guus (Kev: for what purpose?)
  208. Kev XMPP to the browser is a nice idea, but terminating on the server makes quite a lot of things easier and/or possible. I was clearly wrong when I objected to Lloyd doing this years ago.
  209. mathieui candy is also abandoned and has quite a number of issues, if I remember correctly
  210. fippo ge0rg: because bear had not been beating up lance enough at the point in time otalk.im was written and kaiwa is just a frontend fork? :-p
  211. Kev Zash: You woludn't have, it's not shipped yet so I don't mention it.
  212. Guus Candy is limited to MUC, isn't it?
  213. Zash Kev: MVC with the MC part serverside?
  214. Zash Guus: Yes
  215. Guus (no rosters, no direct chats other than MUC one-on-oneś)
  216. Kev Guus: It does nice things like supporting browser resets and things.
  217. Kev Zash: Something not a million miles away from that.
  218. Ge0rG Kev: can't you have all the nice things with HTML5+JS SPAs?
  219. Guus Kev: is there any info on it online?
  220. Kev Guus: None, sorry.
  221. Guus Kev: ETA?
  222. Guus (ballpark)
  223. Kev I don't have one, sorry. I hate giving dates and being wrong. It's unlikely to be Free, though, so I suspect that means it's not interesting to you.
  224. Ge0rG fippo: pardon?
  225. Guus Kev: you might be wrong there. I mentioned above that i'm interested in paid versions of 'chat service' implementations - especially when they're more than the "click here to chat with one of our support members" types of propositions that I've found so far.
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  228. fippo ge0rg: there is a lot of backstory behind kaiwa and otalk.im...
  229. Ge0rG fippo: what I'm wondering is if it would work when served from apache, without nodejs, or if it makes sense to make a feature request for that
  230. fippo ge0rg: kaiwa is still developed? the reason for a node server was that webpack wasn't available back when this stuff was written and webpack makes it very easy to generate a static file that you can upload
  231. Ge0rG fippo: I don't know if it is still developed.
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  243. Holger The ForNeVeR fork (<https://github.com/ForNeVeR/Kaiwa>) is still somewhat alive.
  244. Ge0rG But also requires nodejs.
  245. Ge0rG All I want is a nice web frontend to xmpp :>
  246. Zash If you want something done, you usually have to do it yourself.
  247. Holger Ge0rG: I think there was a way to serve the ForNeVeR fork statically. But it might be undocumented. Or nonexistent.
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  251. Ge0rG Zash: I can't do everything myself.
  252. MattJ Me neither
  253. Ge0rG MattJ: which reminds me... we have a new week now! :P
  254. MattJ :/
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  256. Zash Is the XSF ical file being update properly now? poke SamWhited?
  257. Zash files* maybe?
  258. Zash Looks like
  259. Ge0rG MattJ: I've been hunting a MUC joining bug in yaxim for half a year or so, and I'm pretty sure it is caused by mod_throttle_presence. But essentially I can't prove it until the latter is fixed :(
  260. Zash Ge0rG: Try the other one I published recently?
  261. Tobias Zash, just would nee a nice JS based display widget on xmpp.org website :)
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  263. SamWhited Zash: we have an ical file?
  264. SamWhited (actually, someone told me about this, but I have no idea where it is or where it comes from)
  265. Zash Apparnently
  266. Zash And it has recent XEPs in it
  267. Ge0rG Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to live
  268. Ge0rG Now we only need an RSS feed! Let's bring 2000ies tech back to life
  269. Zash SamWhited: whatever this is http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics
  270. SamWhited Be careful, it's been years but I still disolve into pools of tears at the mention of Google Reader… I miss my feeds.
  271. Ge0rG SamWhited: I'm using tt-rss for many years now. Sometimes it pays off to pick a decentralized crappy solution over a Google property.
  272. SamWhited I looked into that one, and vaguely remember thinking it was a security disaster waiting to happen, but that was a while ago, don't remember why. Possibly just because it's all written in PHP.
  273. Ge0rG SamWhited: yeah, you can't deploy PHP without http auth.
  274. Tobias SamWhited, back in the old days we used https://github.com/buddycloud/buddycloud-xep/blob/master/xmpp/calgen.py to generate calendars
  275. Tobias but that script seems to be in none of our repos today
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  277. Tobias who knows what other fancy tools are there in the past :)
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  374. Guus I tried this half a day ago, but since the other side of the world is awake now, I'll rephrase my question one more time:
  375. Guus I'm looking for an IM-as-a-service type of solution, (integration with web, possibly also mobile/desktop), that is not limited to "chat with one of our support staff" type of solutions. An alternative to something that you'd roll on your own as a combination of Converse/Candy et.al., a couple of desktop and mobile clients, and a server of choice. I am aware of the existence of services like smartsupp.com and cobrowser.nl, but those are very support-oriented (and limited to a web integration only, as far as I can tell). I'm looking for something that allows users the communicate amongst themselves.
  376. Guus Thoughts?
  377. edhelas Guus, Movim
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  379. Guus edhelas: Perhaps. I was under the impression that Movim was more of a complete social network in itself (instead of somethign that you'd easily integrate with an existing platform)?
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  385. edhelas well you can tune it, depends what you say about "integration"
  386. edhelas but if you want a mini-chat on the bottom-right of your website, no it doesn't fit
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  404. mimi89999 Is XEP-0066 obsolete?
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  406. SamWhited No, but if you're using it for media then xep-0385 may be a better choice (although I don't think many people have had a chance to implement it yet)
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  427. moparisthebest Guus: owncloud had a client only xmpp client plugin but now it can run a server too, whole xmpp server in PHP as plugin
  428. moparisthebest I'm sure it's great /sarcasm :-)
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