XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2017-02-17


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  10. SamWhited I wonder if we could use this for gathering IPR releases from people automagically (and only the first time for all future submissions): https://cla-assistant.io/
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  14. moparisthebest Hmm I don't think I ever did that
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  34. SamWhited Oops…
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  48. Ge0rG moparisthebest: > so based on a clients support or mix or not, could a server allow them into a mix channel if supported or throw them into some type of muc compatibility layer for the mix jid if not? This is exactly what I'm asking for for half a now! :)
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  50. jonasw hyvää päivää, guten morgen, god morgonen, good morning, bonjour!
  51. Ge0rG jonasw: you forgot the UGT zone reference 😜
  52. jonasw I was busy with remembering swedish and french ;-)
  53. jonasw *(UGT)
  54. jonasw moparisthebest: would you prefer language comments to your XEP(s) as comments on github, PRs or via email?
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  155. nyco @all how much have we (the XMPP communities) discussed around zero-knowledge messaging in the past?
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  158. moparisthebest jonasw: any are fine but PRs are probably the least work for me so I'd prefer those :-)
  159. moparisthebest nyco: what is that? Haven't heard that term applied to messaging before...
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  161. nyco moparisthebest, well that is indeed the same, but applied to messaging, some pretend to do that, not sure of the details
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  163. moparisthebest It doesn't quite make sense to me when applied to messaging, remote file storage yes, messaging no...
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  165. nyco basically no metada that allows to build some social graph?
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  167. moparisthebest Ah so it just means protecting metadata from the servers?
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  170. nyco moparisthebest, maybe more, as I said, not sure about the details
  171. moparisthebest That seems impossible with xmpp
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  173. nyco so, for XMPP, for example it could be with MAM nor Offline
  174. nyco and anonymous connections
  175. moparisthebest That's just data
  176. nyco plus some kind of encryption
  177. nyco and no logs
  178. moparisthebest And yea so listening via tor
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  180. nyco tor is just blurring tracks, not removing them
  181. moparisthebest No logs isn't something enforceable though, it's just trusting people...
  182. nyco so not zero-knowledge, but minimal-knowledge, indeed
  183. moparisthebest The only metadata free type of messaging I know about just kind of publishes huge blocks of encrypted data at regular intervals to something public
  184. moparisthebest So it's not instant messaging, more like email
  185. nyco interesting
  186. moparisthebest And a lot of wasted data and such but point is an onlooker doesn't know who the data is for, how much, or if it's actually anything at all
  187. moparisthebest Now what was that called.....
  188. nyco so, how about some sort of guidelines document, where we describe how to do: minimalist logs, no offline, minimalist mam, e2e encryption, perishable messages
  189. moparisthebest Is offline/mam a problem with e2e?
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  192. nyco not sure about this question: I guess it is needed to buffer some messages in case the guys are not online, for later reading?
  193. nyco "buffer", like in "temporarily store"
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  195. moparisthebest https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricochet_(software) that's one solution
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  197. moparisthebest Xmpp could be used the same way
  198. moparisthebest Where each user has their own server listening on a .onion domain
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  202. moparisthebest I didn't read this yet but a paper about metadata conscious instant messaging http://jmlr.org/proceedings/papers/v48/fanti16.pdf
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  205. moparisthebest Another https://www.cs.cornell.edu/~tyagi/papers/stadium.pdf
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  208. moparisthebest https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/charles-river-crypto-day-building-anonymous-messaging-systems-that-hide-the-metadata/
  209. nyco oh nice
  210. nyco doing "fast search engine based research" in parallel: some instant messaging apps pretend to do zero-knowledge, but this is just "hey we can't read your stuff, you are protected from us"
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