Friday, February 17, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[01:44:40] <SamWhited> I wonder if we could use this for gathering IPR releases from people automagically (and only the first time for all future submissions): https://cla-assistant.io/
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[02:09:38] <moparisthebest> Hmm I don't think I ever did that
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[04:47:06] <SamWhited> Oops…
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[06:55:58] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest:
> so based on a clients support or mix or not, could a server allow them into a mix channel if supported or throw them into some type of muc compatibility layer for the mix jid if not?
This is exactly what I'm asking for for half a now! :)
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[06:57:42] <jonasw> hyvää päivää, guten morgen, god morgonen, good morning, bonjour!
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[07:01:42] <Ge0rG> jonasw: you forgot the UGT zone reference 😜
[07:01:57] <jonasw> I was busy with remembering swedish and french ;-)
[07:02:25] <jonasw> *(UGT)
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[07:06:02] <jonasw> moparisthebest: would you prefer language comments to your XEP(s) as comments on github, PRs or via email?
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[10:23:49] <nyco> @all how much have we (the XMPP communities) discussed around zero-knowledge messaging in the past?
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[10:27:23] <moparisthebest> jonasw: any are fine but PRs are probably the least work for me so I'd prefer those :-)
[10:28:17] <moparisthebest> nyco: what is that? Haven't heard that term applied to messaging before...
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[10:30:32] <nyco> moparisthebest, well that is indeed the same, but applied to messaging, some pretend to do that, not sure of the details
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[10:31:52] <moparisthebest> It doesn't quite make sense to me when applied to messaging, remote file storage yes, messaging no...
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[10:32:06] <nyco> basically no metada that allows to build some social graph?
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[10:33:00] <moparisthebest> Ah so it just means protecting metadata from the servers?
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[10:33:22] <nyco> moparisthebest, maybe more, as I said, not sure about the details
[10:33:28] <moparisthebest> That seems impossible with xmpp
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[10:33:36] <nyco> so, for XMPP, for example it could be with MAM nor Offline
[10:33:50] <nyco> and anonymous connections
[10:34:03] <moparisthebest> That's just data
[10:34:08] <nyco> plus some kind of encryption
[10:34:17] <nyco> and no logs
[10:34:19] <moparisthebest> And yea so listening via tor
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[10:34:39] <nyco> tor is just blurring tracks, not removing them
[10:35:09] <moparisthebest> No logs isn't something enforceable though, it's just trusting people...
[10:35:58] <nyco> so not zero-knowledge, but minimal-knowledge, indeed
[10:36:44] <moparisthebest> The only metadata free type of messaging I know about just kind of publishes huge blocks of encrypted data at regular intervals to something public
[10:37:13] <moparisthebest> So it's not instant messaging, more like email
[10:37:14] <nyco> interesting
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[10:38:16] <moparisthebest> And a lot of wasted data and such but point is an onlooker doesn't know who the data is for, how much, or if it's actually anything at all
[10:38:32] <moparisthebest> Now what was that called.....
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[10:39:57] <nyco> so, how about some sort of guidelines document, where we describe how to do: minimalist logs, no offline, minimalist mam, e2e encryption, perishable messages
[10:40:42] <moparisthebest> Is offline/mam a problem with e2e?
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[10:42:57] <nyco> not sure about this question: I guess it is needed to buffer some messages in case the guys are not online, for later reading?
[10:43:12] <nyco> "buffer", like in "temporarily store"
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[10:43:39] <moparisthebest> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricochet_(software) that's one solution
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[10:43:53] <moparisthebest> Xmpp could be used the same way
[10:44:25] <moparisthebest> Where each user has their own server listening on a .onion domain
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[10:48:40] <moparisthebest> I didn't read this yet but a paper about metadata conscious instant messaging http://jmlr.org/proceedings/papers/v48/fanti16.pdf
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[10:49:50] <moparisthebest> Another https://www.cs.cornell.edu/~tyagi/papers/stadium.pdf
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[10:52:13] <moparisthebest> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/charles-river-crypto-day-building-anonymous-messaging-systems-that-hide-the-metadata/
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[10:52:16] <nyco> oh nice
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[10:53:14] <nyco> doing "fast search engine based research" in parallel: some instant messaging apps pretend to do zero-knowledge, but this is just "hey we can't read your stuff, you are protected from us"
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[14:57:34] *** Homer J has left the room
[14:58:05] *** vurpo has left the room
[14:58:07] *** vurpo has joined the room
[14:58:10] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:58:10] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:00:17] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:00:17] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[15:01:39] *** xnyhps has left the room
[15:01:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:01:47] *** Kev has left the room
[15:01:50] *** Kev has joined the room
[15:01:51] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:03:59] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:07:07] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[15:07:50] *** xnyhps has left the room
[15:07:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:09:28] *** kalkin has left the room
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[15:11:36] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:12:43] *** vurpo has left the room
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[15:14:57] *** vurpo has left the room
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[15:19:17] *** stpeter has left the room
[15:21:36] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:23:10] *** Sonny has left the room
[15:23:14] *** Sonny has joined the room
[15:25:16] *** kalkin has left the room
[15:25:36] *** kalkin has joined the room
[15:25:44] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[15:25:52] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:26:04] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:29:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:29:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:30:04] *** SamWhited has joined the room
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[15:31:47] *** vurpo has left the room
[15:31:49] *** vurpo has joined the room
[15:33:29] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:33:53] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:34:14] *** xnyhps has left the room
[15:34:17] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:35:44] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:35:48] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:42:46] *** Sonny has left the room
[15:43:04] *** narcode shows as "online"
[15:45:02] *** Valerian has left the room
[15:46:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:47:52] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:47:53] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:50:51] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[15:51:19] *** jcbrand has left the room
[15:51:32] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:51:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:53:57] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:55:05] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:55:29] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:56:02] *** Sonny has joined the room
[15:57:03] *** Kev has left the room
[15:58:24] *** vurpo has left the room
[15:58:29] *** vurpo has joined the room
[15:58:39] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:59:23] *** xnyhps has left the room
[15:59:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[15:59:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:02:08] *** Sonny has left the room
[16:02:11] *** Sonny has joined the room
[16:02:50] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:03:14] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:04:04] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[16:05:44] *** vurpo has left the room
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[16:06:24] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:06:28] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:07:04] *** stpeter has joined the room
[16:07:26] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:07:56] *** xyz has joined the room
[16:10:10] *** xnyhps has left the room
[16:10:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:11:12] *** xyz has left the room
[16:12:49] *** xyz has joined the room
[16:14:42] *** ralphm has left the room
[16:17:08] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[16:18:02] *** Sonny has left the room
[16:18:14] *** Sonny has joined the room
[16:18:26] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:23:56] *** Sonny has left the room
[16:24:35] *** jcbrand has joined the room
[16:28:19] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:28:21] *** Sonny has joined the room
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[16:30:31] *** jcbrand has left the room
[16:34:02] *** Sonny has left the room
[16:34:05] *** Sonny has joined the room
[16:35:47] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:36:23] *** Kev has joined the room
[16:36:24] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:36:46] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:37:08] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[16:37:12] *** xnyhps has left the room
[16:39:12] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:39:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:42:17] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[16:45:39] *** Sonny has left the room
[16:45:41] *** Sonny has joined the room
[16:46:24] *** Sonny has left the room
[16:46:26] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[16:46:33] *** Sonny has joined the room
[16:48:23] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:49:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:50:18] *** bra shows as "online"
[16:52:53] *** xnyhps has left the room
[16:57:19] *** McKael shows as "online"
[16:59:49] *** Kev has left the room
[16:59:54] *** xyz has left the room
[16:59:57] *** Kev has joined the room
[16:59:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:01:06] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:01:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:01:57] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:05:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:05:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:05:59] *** blipp has left the room
[17:06:19] *** waqas has left the room
[17:06:59] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:06:59] *** blipp has joined the room
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[17:13:02] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:13:15] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:15:12] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[17:18:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:19:17] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:20:24] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:26:48] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:29:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:31:10] *** mhterres has left the room
[17:32:00] *** Valerian has joined the room
[17:35:22] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[17:36:44] *** waqas has joined the room
[17:39:46] *** kalkin has left the room
[17:40:28] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[17:40:28] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[17:40:29] *** kalkin has joined the room
[17:40:44] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:42:12] *** Sonny has left the room
[17:42:15] *** Sonny has joined the room
[17:44:38] *** Kev has left the room
[17:44:39] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:44:57] *** Valerian has left the room
[17:46:46] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:51:01] *** McKael shows as "online"
[17:51:55] *** Sonny has left the room
[17:52:13] *** Sonny has joined the room
[17:55:32] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[17:56:41] *** Sonny has left the room
[17:57:17] *** Sonny has joined the room
[17:57:46] *** Kev has joined the room
[17:58:18] *** goffi has left the room
[17:58:19] *** Sonny has left the room
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[17:59:45] *** narcode shows as "away"
[18:03:29] *** Sonny has left the room
[18:06:01] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[18:06:50] *** ralphm has left the room
[18:14:22] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:18:07] *** SamWhited has left the room
[18:20:22] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[18:21:13] *** bra shows as "online"
[18:22:03] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:24:22] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:24:47] *** Sonny has joined the room
[18:27:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:30:59] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:30:59] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:32:16] *** intosi shows as "online"
[18:32:31] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:33:36] *** xyz has joined the room
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[18:36:53] *** jubalh has joined the room
[18:36:56] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[18:38:21] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[18:39:14] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[18:46:06] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:46:28] *** goffi has joined the room
[18:46:33] *** jcbrand has joined the room
[18:48:01] *** goffi has left the room
[18:48:11] *** goffi has joined the room
[18:48:58] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:48:58] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:56:06] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:59:14] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[18:59:17] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:00:20] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:00:25] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:01:25] *** Kev has left the room
[19:02:08] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[19:02:13] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:02:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:02:57] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:03:22] *** Sonny has left the room
[19:03:25] *** Sonny has joined the room
[19:06:05] *** Zash has left the room
[19:07:44] *** Kev has left the room
[19:08:37] *** Sonny has left the room
[19:08:55] *** Sonny has joined the room
[19:10:11] *** Sonny has left the room
[19:11:22] *** Sonny has joined the room
[19:17:51] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:23:39] *** sezuan has left the room
[19:23:47] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[19:23:52] *** Guus has left the room
[19:23:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:25:21] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:25:31] *** Sonny has left the room
[19:26:22] *** daniel has left the room
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[19:27:17] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[19:28:21] *** Sonny has joined the room
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[19:30:38] *** Sonny has joined the room
[19:36:20] *** Sonny has left the room
[19:37:01] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:37:18] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:37:54] *** Sonny has joined the room
[19:38:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:40:05] *** Sonny has left the room
[19:40:07] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:40:09] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[19:40:16] *** Sonny has joined the room
[19:41:18] *** xnyhps has left the room
[19:41:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:45:46] *** jubalh has left the room
[19:47:15] *** Zash has joined the room
[19:48:15] *** Valerian has joined the room
[19:48:52] *** jubalh has joined the room
[19:49:48] *** Sonny has left the room
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[19:51:12] *** dwd has left the room
[19:51:36] *** Valerian has left the room
[19:51:37] *** Valerian has joined the room
[19:53:39] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:53:40] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:54:26] *** xyz has left the room
[19:55:29] *** Alex has left the room
[19:55:41] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:55:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:56:50] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:56:51] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:57:56] *** Guus has left the room
[19:57:56] *** Guus has left the room
[19:58:11] *** McKael shows as "online"
[19:58:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:59:12] *** xyz has joined the room
[19:59:15] *** Alex has joined the room
[20:00:33] *** Guus has joined the room
[20:00:37] *** Sonny has left the room
[20:00:38] *** Sonny has joined the room
[20:02:29] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:05:03] *** Sonny has left the room
[20:05:48] *** Sonny has joined the room
[20:06:04] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:07:57] *** Kev has left the room
[20:09:29] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:09:31] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:11:03] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[20:11:53] *** Sonny has left the room
[20:12:05] *** Sonny has joined the room
[20:13:02] *** jubalh has left the room
[20:13:23] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[20:13:47] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:14:03] *** McKael shows as "online"
[20:16:53] *** xyz has left the room
[20:16:58] *** xyz has joined the room
[20:17:22] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[20:18:35] *** goffi has left the room
[20:19:42] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:19:43] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:19:59] *** xyz has left the room
[20:20:16] *** xyz has joined the room
[20:20:31] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:21:08] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:21:40] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[20:32:52] *** suzyo has left the room
[20:33:27] *** Valerian has left the room
[20:34:38] *** narcode shows as "online"
[20:37:25] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[20:37:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:38:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:41:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:41:25] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:41:38] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:41:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:43:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:43:29] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:46:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:48:56] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[20:50:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:50:31] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:50:32] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:51:05] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[20:51:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:56:24] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:56:25] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:57:59] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:58:28] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[21:01:25] *** stpeter shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:05:06] *** Kev has left the room
[21:05:39] *** mancho has left the room
[21:06:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:07:42] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:09:33] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[21:10:51] *** Kev has left the room
[21:10:51] *** Kev has left the room
[21:14:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:15:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:20:41] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[21:24:18] *** xyz has left the room
[21:24:26] *** jcbrand has left the room
[21:25:15] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:25:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:29:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:33:10] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:37:52] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:38:27] *** jere has left the room
[21:38:59] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:40:21] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[21:43:03] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[21:43:47] *** winfried has left the room
[21:48:01] *** stpeter has left the room
[21:50:05] *** sezuan has left the room
[21:51:29] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[21:53:05] *** Tobias has left the room
[21:56:29] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[21:56:38] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[21:57:04] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:57:04] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:59:06] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:59:25] *** bjc shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:00:06] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[22:00:10] *** goffi has joined the room
[22:05:14] *** mancho has joined the room
[22:17:40] *** Kev has left the room
[22:18:47] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:18:47] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:21:26] *** boothj5 has joined the room
[22:23:41] *** mancho has left the room
[22:29:46] *** narcode shows as "away"
[22:35:18] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[22:36:10] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:38:01] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[22:43:25] *** Kev has left the room
[22:44:36] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:44:36] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:46:48] *** daniel has left the room
[22:46:56] *** daniel has joined the room
[22:49:40] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:52:31] *** waqas has left the room
[22:55:00] *** edhelas has left the room
[22:57:04] *** edhelas has joined the room
[23:10:48] *** nyco shows as "online"
[23:11:32] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:12:27] *** vurpo has left the room
[23:12:30] *** vurpo has joined the room
[23:17:12] *** waqas has joined the room
[23:18:01] *** Kev has left the room
[23:19:26] *** vurpo has left the room
[23:19:28] *** vurpo has joined the room
[23:20:22] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:25:40] *** mancho has joined the room
[23:33:36] *** bjc shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:36:49] *** Sonny has left the room
[23:36:49] *** Sonny has joined the room
[23:39:20] *** vurpo has left the room
[23:39:21] *** vurpo has joined the room
[23:40:04] *** Sonny has left the room
[23:40:05] *** Sonny has joined the room
[23:42:57] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[23:43:19] *** arc has joined the room
[23:47:37] *** Guus has left the room
[23:47:38] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:49:46] *** waqas has left the room
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