Monday, February 20, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:01:44] *** Sonny shows as "online"
[00:09:12] *** intosi has joined the room
[00:09:22] *** Sonny shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[00:09:37] *** intosi shows as "online"
[00:13:43] *** mancho has left the room
[00:19:22] *** Sonny shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[00:24:31] *** Kev shows as "away"
[00:24:31] *** Kev shows as "away"
[00:26:26] *** vurpo has left the room
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[00:33:59] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[00:43:53] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[00:43:59] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[00:45:10] *** Kev has left the room
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[01:13:35] *** narcode shows as "away"
[01:14:57] *** narcode shows as "online"
[01:15:10] *** narcode shows as "away"
[01:16:18] *** narcode shows as "online"
[01:16:22] *** narcode shows as "away"
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[01:24:32] *** narcode shows as "away"
[01:27:13] *** intosi has left the room
[01:28:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[01:28:51] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[01:29:21] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[01:29:28] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[01:31:10] *** Kev shows as "away"
[01:31:11] *** Kev shows as "away"
[01:49:08] *** Kev has left the room
[02:10:42] *** intosi has joined the room
[02:27:13] *** Zash has left the room
[02:27:30] *** intosi has left the room
[02:28:11] *** bra shows as "online"
[02:35:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[02:35:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[02:43:35] *** nyco has left the room
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[02:50:32] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[02:56:05] *** bra shows as "online"
[02:57:05] *** Kev has left the room
[03:00:08] *** daniel has left the room
[03:00:08] *** kalkin has left the room
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[03:08:59] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:11:31] *** intosi has joined the room
[03:16:52] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[03:28:53] *** intosi has left the room
[03:28:59] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:41:29] *** vurpo has left the room
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[03:44:41] *** Kev shows as "away"
[03:44:41] *** Kev shows as "away"
[04:05:12] *** Kev has left the room
[04:12:41] *** intosi has joined the room
[04:19:20] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[04:22:59] *** bra shows as "online"
[04:29:46] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[04:29:50] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "LHR T5"
[04:30:06] *** jere has left the room
[04:30:07] *** intosi has left the room
[04:30:09] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[04:30:21] *** mancho has joined the room
[04:33:47] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[04:35:29] *** bra shows as "online"
[04:45:54] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[04:48:16] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[04:51:33] *** Kev shows as "away"
[04:51:34] *** Kev shows as "away"
[04:56:32] *** SamWhited has left the room
[05:05:53] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[05:10:53] *** Kev has left the room
[05:13:04] *** intosi has joined the room
[05:24:04] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:24:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:30:30] *** intosi has left the room
[05:34:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:37:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:42:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:43:19] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:46:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:46:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:46:32] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[05:46:35] *** xnyhps has left the room
[05:46:45] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Hataraite imasu (работаю)"
[05:49:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:50:19] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:50:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:52:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:52:58] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[05:55:00] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:58:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:59:56] *** Kev shows as "away"
[05:59:56] *** Kev shows as "away"
[06:01:00] *** intosi has joined the room
[06:02:05] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:05:37] *** bra shows as "online"
[06:08:49] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:09:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:10:28] *** Guus has left the room
[06:10:30] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:10:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:11:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:12:19] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:12:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:15:33] *** Yagiza has left the room
[06:15:52] *** Kev has left the room
[06:17:36] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[06:17:52] *** intosi has left the room
[06:18:21] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[06:18:36] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[06:19:08] *** SamWhited has left the room
[06:22:42] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:24:00] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:24:59] <jonasw> good morning
[06:25:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:25:26] *** kalkin has left the room
[06:25:52] *** sezuan has left the room
[06:25:55] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[06:29:04] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:31:05] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[06:33:57] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:33:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:34:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:35:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:36:09] *** Alex has joined the room
[06:36:38] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:37:37] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:38:51] *** kalkin has joined the room
[06:39:16] *** xnyhps has left the room
[06:39:18] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:42:10] *** Piotr Nosek has joined the room
[06:46:22] *** goffi has joined the room
[06:50:29] *** bra shows as "online"
[06:53:27] *** Alex has left the room
[07:01:40] *** intosi has joined the room
[07:01:49] *** jonasw has left the room
[07:06:08] *** Kev shows as "away"
[07:06:09] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[07:14:46] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:14:52] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[07:18:54] *** intosi has left the room
[07:21:53] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[07:22:15] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Hataraite imasu (работаю)"
[07:22:28] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:23:27] *** Kev has left the room
[07:25:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:26:36] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[07:29:12] *** jubalh has joined the room
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[07:29:47] *** xyz has left the room
[07:32:28] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[07:32:44] *** Lance has joined the room
[07:32:45] *** Lance shows as "online"
[07:33:02] *** blipp has left the room
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[07:34:26] *** Kev shows as "away"
[07:34:27] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[07:34:54] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[07:35:15] *** xnyhps has left the room
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[07:35:18] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:36:49] *** Kev shows as "online"
[07:44:45] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[07:44:45] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[07:46:31] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[07:49:56] *** bra shows as "online"
[07:51:13] *** xyz has left the room
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[07:53:43] *** Lance has left the room
[07:58:06] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[07:58:38] *** jubalh has joined the room
[07:59:00] *** Kev has left the room
[07:59:14] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[07:59:30] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[08:00:14] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:00:15] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:02:41] *** intosi has joined the room
[08:03:49] *** kalkin has left the room
[08:07:30] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:08:14] *** bra shows as "online"
[08:09:59] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:09:59] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:16:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:17:11] *** jcbrand has joined the room
[08:18:53] *** jubalh has left the room
[08:19:03] *** jubalh has joined the room
[08:19:52] *** intosi has left the room
[08:20:13] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[08:22:00] *** kalkin has joined the room
[08:22:14] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:22:14] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:23:55] *** suzyo has left the room
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[08:25:11] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:26:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:27:20] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:27:20] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[08:28:15] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:28:23] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[08:32:01] *** Valerian has joined the room
[08:32:21] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:32:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:33:12] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:33:12] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:33:23] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[08:33:37] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[08:34:33] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:34:33] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:34:36] *** waqas has left the room
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[08:39:03] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:39:03] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[08:40:20] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:40:20] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:40:39] *** Kev has left the room
[08:44:12] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:44:12] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:46:13] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:46:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:48:15] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:51:44] *** moparisthebest has left the room
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[08:52:41] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:52:42] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:54:33] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:54:54] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[08:56:28] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[08:56:51] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[08:58:07] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:58:07] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[08:59:45] *** mhterres has joined the room
[09:02:08] *** Martin has joined the room
[09:02:37] *** Kev has left the room
[09:03:26] *** intosi has joined the room
[09:03:55] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:03:56] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:04:33] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:04:54] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[09:06:48] *** intosi shows as "online"
[09:07:03] *** intosi shows as "online"
[09:09:12] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:09:53] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:10:49] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[09:11:25] *** Sonny shows as "online"
[09:12:14] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[09:12:52] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[09:14:08] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:14:08] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:14:43] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:14:43] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[09:15:14] *** mancho has left the room
[09:16:07] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:16:07] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[09:17:08] *** mancho has joined the room
[09:17:10] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[09:17:16] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[09:22:04] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:25:49] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[09:26:16] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[09:26:19] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:27:10] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[09:27:16] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[09:28:14] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:28:14] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:28:15] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:29:21] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[09:30:05] *** daniel has left the room
[09:30:13] *** daniel has joined the room
[09:32:27] *** Kev has left the room
[09:33:35] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:33:36] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:34:10] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:34:11] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:35:36] *** kalkin has left the room
[09:36:34] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[09:37:01] *** jubalh has left the room
[09:37:24] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[09:37:28] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[09:37:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:38:32] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:38:36] *** Martin shows as "online"
[09:39:31] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:39:36] *** mancho has left the room
[09:41:47] *** jubalh has joined the room
[09:41:57] *** jubalh has left the room
[09:42:13] *** kalkin has joined the room
[09:42:41] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:43:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:44:09] *** Sonny has left the room
[09:44:32] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:44:56] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:44:56] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[09:45:40] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[09:46:15] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:48:33] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:50:21] *** Sonny shows as "online"
[09:53:59] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[09:54:41] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:55:30] *** mancho has joined the room
[09:56:43] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[09:58:36] *** Yagiza has left the room
[09:59:03] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:59:03] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:59:47] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[09:59:59] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Hataraite imasu (работаю)"
[10:01:38] *** xnyhps has left the room
[10:02:28] *** bra shows as "online"
[10:03:25] *** blipp has left the room
[10:03:34] *** blipp has joined the room
[10:03:37] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:03:40] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "online"
[10:06:09] *** Kev has left the room
[10:06:25] *** Kev shows as "away"
[10:06:58] *** Kev shows as "online"
[10:07:10] *** Sonny has left the room
[10:07:12] *** Sonny shows as "online"
[10:07:19] *** Kev shows as "away"
[10:07:19] *** Kev shows as "away"
[10:07:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:08:16] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[10:10:40] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[10:13:24] *** jcbrand has left the room
[10:13:28] *** dwd has joined the room
[10:16:07] *** Guus has left the room
[10:16:36] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:16:36] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[10:16:38] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:17:50] *** Kev shows as "away"
[10:22:07] *** mancho has left the room
[10:22:28] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:22:28] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:25:41] *** Sonny has left the room
[10:27:42] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:29:12] *** jcbrand has joined the room
[10:29:13] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:30:27] *** Zash has joined the room
[10:32:29] *** Guus has left the room
[10:33:17] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:33:17] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[10:33:29] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:35:40] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:35:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:37:42] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:39:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:39:19] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:40:43] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:40:43] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:42:09] *** Sonny shows as "online"
[10:45:15] *** blipp has left the room
[10:46:01] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:46:06] *** Martin shows as "online"
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[12:39:53] <Holger> There seems to be a consensus that predictable resource strings introduce a privacy issue. Do we have any text in any XEP (or on the wiki or the mailing list) explaining the issue?
[12:40:42] <MattJ> https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6120.html#bind-generation
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[12:43:06] <Holger> MattJ: Thanks. This says you "might be able to determine if the client [...] is online" if you know the resource string. There's no explanation how you would determine that, right?
[12:44:46] <MattJ> Not anything explicit that I know of
[12:44:49] <Holger> MattJ: I'm aware of a few ways to do that at least with ejabberd users, but each of those are spec or implementation issues which IMO should be fixed either way (rather than only hidden by making the resource string unpredictable).
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[12:45:01] <Ge0rG> Holger: +1
[12:45:08] <MattJ> But this is implicitly assumed by various XEPs
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[12:45:26] <Ge0rG> Holger: the only issue I'm aware of is periodic sending of IQs to a full JID, to probe the client availability and network latency
[12:45:28] <Holger> MattJ: Unpredictable resource strings are assumed?
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[12:46:55] <Ge0rG> It's also a really poor idea to use UUIDs for randomness if we have the full power of unicode (or at least base32 / base64)
[12:47:04] <Holger> Indeed.
[12:47:24] <MattJ> I'd wager that yes, numerous XEPs rely on unpredictable resource strings for security/privacy purposes
[12:47:51] <Ge0rG> YouTube, the world's most used video platform, manage to identify videos by less than a dozen characters. Why do we need to use 36 characters to identify two clients on an account?
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[12:49:08] <Kev> If there's a standard for how to do something equivalent to UUID (global uniqueness without fingerprinting) in fewer bytes, using that instead of UUID seems entirely sensible.
[12:49:12] <Ge0rG> Are we protecting from enumeration attacks? From birthday attacks? What is the actual amount of randomness required in a resource to prevent those?
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[12:50:08] <Holger> Kev: Why do we need a standard for that? I mean there's no interop requirement?
[12:50:25] <jonasw> w
[12:50:26] <jonasw> ^
[12:51:08] <Kev> Holger: Well, we'd at least want it to be consistently implemented across clients, else you can fingerprint (which probably isn't the end of the world, but seems like something we'd want to prevent).
[12:51:11] <Ge0rG> Kev: sticking to default implementations is what causes user-visible URLs like https://xmpp.yaxim.org:5281/upload/54f59abf-de9b-4fb9-a1e4-f0b5b78a0a9d/a5f532df-0fef-47c4-81a9-2aff690419fc.jpg
[12:51:20] <intosi> Holger: libraries have the benefit of people not writing their own random identifier generator.
[12:51:41] <intosi> * standard methods present in libraries, I mean.
[12:52:04] <jonasw> getentropy(nbits=32) | base64 | strip('=') should be possible with every standard library.
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[12:52:18] <jonasw> we are requiring PRECIS which has *much less* support than that
[12:52:21] <intosi> Which base64?
[12:52:35] <intosi> But yeah, another well-defined method could work equally well.
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[12:53:23] <jonasw> intosi: okay, point taken. getentropy(nbits=32) | base64 | tr('_/', '_-') | strip('=')
[12:53:42] <intosi> When unicode comes into play, I'm less inclined to believe that every client gets it right, though. Unicode is hard.
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[12:53:58] <jonasw> base64 is luckily only ascii
[12:54:27] <Ge0rG> what we are looking for is a number of random bits packed into as few characters as possible for a given element
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[12:54:56] <Kev> Well, not quite.
[12:54:57] <jonasw> base-emoji
[12:54:58] <Zash> Base 85
[12:55:11] <Kev> We're also looking for it to be typable by server admins grepping for logs, etc.
[12:55:15] <Kev> And visibly distinguishable.
[12:55:32] <Kev> Simply picking random bits forced into UTF-8 clearly wouldn't work, for example.
[12:55:34] <Ge0rG> Kev: uuids are not very visibly distinguishable.
[12:55:50] <Kev> If you give me two UUIDs, I'm fairly sure I can tell you if they're the same.
[12:56:39] <jonasw> Kev: agreed (with random bits in utf-8), not only because of distinguiushability, but because it also needs to pass resourceprep and/or precis unmodified. that’s nontrivial.
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[12:57:46] <Ge0rG> Kev: what if you have a complex scenario with N clients in a MUC, a set of M reflected messages with rewritten UUID ids? For which values of N and M can you keep N+2*M UUIDs in your short-term memory?
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[12:59:38] <Zash> Disco identity ?
[12:59:39] <jonasw> what about dictionary-based strings?
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[12:59:58] <jonasw> just sample from /usr/share/dict/british-english-insane (it’s a thing!)
[13:00:00] <Holger> Zash: There's no disco identity when staring at XEP examples ...
[13:00:29] <Ge0rG> base64-strings have better visible distinguishability due to more uppercase/lowercase.
[13:00:40] <Kev> Ge0rG: In what scenario are you imagining someone debugging such a thing and using the resources as the mental identifiers?
[13:01:11] <Kev> As I said earlier, if we can more tightly pack than UUID, while still maintaining human readability, great.
[13:01:18] <Kev> (And the other desirable properties of UUIDs)
[13:01:25] <intosi> Basically still gibberish. I'm not convinced it would make a difference, I would suck at remembering many of either UUID, base64, or picks-from-a-wordlist-with-sufficient-entropy.
[13:01:58] <intosi> For all of them, I would just use the first four or five chars anyway.
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[13:02:26] <Ge0rG> Kev: which identifiers would you use if all you have at hand are debug logs?
[13:03:20] <Holger> Kev: I'm still quite baffled you'd list 'readability' as one of the properties of UUIDs :-)
[13:03:25] <Kev> Nicks in a MUC, in the usual case of them being pretty static.
[13:03:38] <Holger> (Then again these XMPP people are used to reading XML ...)
[13:03:40] <Kev> Holger: They're not *nice*, but it is possible to straightforwardly read them.
[13:04:09] <Holger> Kev: But what makes them any more readable than e.g. Base64?
[13:04:11] <Ge0rG> Kev: but I want it *nice*.
[13:04:12] <Kev> Compared with random UTF-8, which is impossible to read because you've no idea which of the many matching characters you're looking at.
[13:04:17] <Kev> Holger: Nothing.
[13:04:30] <Holger> Oh. Well yeah there's always something worse.
[13:04:30] <jonasw> Kev: nobody was seriously talking about using random utf-8
[13:04:48] <jonasw> (I hope.)
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[13:05:01] <Kev> jonasw: You might not be taking Ge0rG seriously, but I was still trying to address his point that we should be using UTF.
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[13:05:34] <jonasw> Kev: I’m pretty sure Ge0rG was only making a point that using only hex is a waste of bytes and we should use base64 or something.
[13:05:35] <Ge0rG> https://gist.github.com/windytan/7910910/
[13:05:53] <Kev> jonasw: Given he explicitly said we should use the power of UTF-8, I don't think so :)
[13:06:01] <jonasw> "the power of unicode", right…
[13:06:14] <Kev> You're right, he said unicode, not UTF-8.
[13:06:20] <Ge0rG> Kev: actually, I should have written "a number of random bits packed into as few bytes as possible" - that should rule out non-ascii
[13:06:40] <Kev> Why?
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[13:06:54] <Kev> You get denser packing with UTF-8 than with ASCII encoded as UTF-8.
[13:06:55] <intosi> Well, that emoji-encoder uses four bytes per byte ;)
[13:07:44] <jonasw> Kev: I’m not sure about that. with ascii, you have a constant 7 bits / byte, with UTF-8 you lose bits for codepoints above 127 for signalling
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[13:07:59] <Ge0rG> intuitively, I'm with jonasw here.
[13:08:26] <Kev> I might be wrong, conceivably. It doesn't match my mental mapping of UTF-8, but I know that's a poor mapping.
[13:08:41] <jonasw> in any case, that’s not the point of the discussion.
[13:08:43] <Kev> I think you get to use the extra bit as encoding for at least the first byte.
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[13:08:54] <Kev> Sure.
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[13:09:39] <Ge0rG> nobody has still said what attack we are trying to prevent, and how many bits of randomness are required to guard it off
[13:09:47] <jonasw> (using any fancy unicode would be very hard, as I said, with the mappings done by resourceprep et al anyways)
[13:09:52] <Kev> The important thing isn't that these are UUIDs, it's that they have the properties of UUIDs and are consistently implemented.
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[13:10:25] <Ge0rG> in a world where clients leak their presence like crazy, having 256 bits of randomness in the resource might be a solution to the wrong problem.
[13:10:26] *Kev goes back to work.
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[13:27:17] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:27:28] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:27:31] *** Martin shows as "online"
[13:27:34] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:27:47] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:28:32] *** Vinilox has left the room
[13:28:35] *** Vinilox shows as "online"
[13:29:46] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:29:46] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:31:28] *** bra shows as "online"
[13:34:40] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:34:40] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[13:37:18] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:39:49] *** Zash has left the room
[13:40:07] *** Zash has joined the room
[13:40:24] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:44:34] *** Sonny has left the room
[13:44:36] *** Sonny shows as "online"
[13:45:17] *** Kev shows as "away"
[13:49:36] *** mancho has left the room
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[13:52:17] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:53:02] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[13:54:01] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:54:45] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[13:55:40] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:55:40] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:57:08] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:57:12] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:57:17] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:58:26] *** Flow shows as "online"
[13:59:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:00:21] *** bra shows as "online"
[14:00:32] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:00:32] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[14:03:57] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:04:55] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:04:58] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:05:06] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:05:07] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:05:19] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:05:21] *** intosi shows as "online"
[14:06:15] *** Piotr Nosek has joined the room
[14:07:25] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[14:08:01] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[14:13:30] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:13:30] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:13:56] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:14:53] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:14:53] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[14:19:36] *** suzyo has left the room
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[14:20:37] *** Flow shows as "online"
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[14:21:35] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[14:22:12] *** jubalh has joined the room
[14:22:20] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[14:22:41] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[14:23:03] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[14:23:17] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:23:18] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:23:32] *** jubalh has left the room
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[14:26:17] *** bra shows as "online"
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[14:26:54] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:27:21] *** Flow shows as "online"
[14:29:37] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[14:30:39] *** jcbrand shows as "online"
[14:30:58] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:30:59] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:32:12] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[14:32:45] *** jcbrand shows as "online"
[14:33:01] *** xyz has joined the room
[14:33:06] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:34:31] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:34:32] *** jcbrand has left the room
[14:34:37] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:34:38] *** jcbrand has left the room
[14:36:25] *** jcbrand shows as "online"
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[14:39:20] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:39:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:39:41] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[14:39:46] *** Kev has left the room
[14:40:07] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:40:08] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:40:44] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:43:40] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:43:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:45:10] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:47:09] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[14:47:13] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[14:49:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:49:11] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:50:52] *** Flow has joined the room
[14:51:58] *** xyz has left the room
[14:52:01] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[14:54:05] *** daurnimator has left the room
[14:54:08] *** daurnimator shows as "online"
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[14:54:50] *** SouL shows as "away" and his status message is "Zzz..."
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[15:00:05] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:00:05] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:00:23] *** daurnimator has left the room
[15:00:26] *** daurnimator shows as "online"
[15:04:19] *** kalkin has left the room
[15:06:55] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[15:06:56] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[15:07:14] *** kalkin has joined the room
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[15:10:40] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[15:11:10] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[15:12:07] *** vurpo has left the room
[15:12:13] *** vurpo has joined the room
[15:17:27] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:17:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:18:02] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:18:02] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[15:18:15] *** suzyo has left the room
[15:19:07] *** suzyo has joined the room
[15:20:53] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[15:21:07] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:22:05] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[15:22:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:24:03] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:24:03] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:25:18] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:25:38] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:25:38] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:25:58] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:26:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[15:26:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[15:26:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:26:47] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:26:47] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[15:27:21] <Zash> XEP-0198 doesn't define what should happen when a session times out, or am I missing something?
[15:28:17] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:28:18] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:28:19] *** Kev has left the room
[15:28:37] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[15:29:38] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:30:18] *** vurpo has left the room
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[15:31:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:32:40] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[15:32:59] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "San Diego"
[15:33:42] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:33:44] *** xyz has joined the room
[15:34:28] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:34:52] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:35:18] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:37:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:38:02] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:38:06] *** mancho has joined the room
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[15:38:42] *** Flow shows as "online"
[15:40:20] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:42:04] *** mancho shows as "online"
[15:42:40] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:43:56] *** xyz has left the room
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[15:46:34] *** jonasw shows as "online"
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[15:51:14] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:51:17] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:51:17] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:51:32] *** vurpo has left the room
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[15:57:04] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[15:57:50] *** xyz has joined the room
[15:59:38] *** sezuan has left the room
[15:59:46] *** daniel shows as "online"
[16:01:45] *** Valerian has left the room
[16:06:10] *** ralphm has left the room
[16:06:19] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[16:06:24] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[16:16:51] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:18:59] *** Flow shows as "online"
[16:20:24] *** xnyhps has left the room
[16:20:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:21:56] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[16:21:56] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[16:22:15] *** jere has joined the room
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[16:22:48] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[16:26:36] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:26:50] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:26:53] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "online"
[16:27:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:27:56] *** kalkin has left the room
[16:28:23] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[16:28:23] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[16:28:45] <Zash> Ge0rG: Btw, for maximum entropy per byte with base64, get a multiple of 3 bytes. You get a multiple of 4 bytes out and no padding.
[16:28:46] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:28:47] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[16:30:19] <Ge0rG> Zash: or you just strip away the padding
[16:30:22] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[16:31:00] <Zash> Ge0rG: There may still encoded 0 bits
[16:31:08] <Zash> Ge0rG: There may still be encoded 0 bits
[16:32:53] <Ge0rG> Zash: but how does that relate to my original statement?
[16:33:17] <Zash> Ge0rG: Being pedantic.
[16:33:57] <Zash> 1 byte input → XX==
2 byte input → XXX=
3 byte input → XXXX
[16:34:27] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:35:03] <Ge0rG> Zash: I never proposed base64 as _the_ solution
[16:35:44] *** xyz has left the room
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[16:36:50] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:37:54] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:39:51] *** daniel has left the room
[16:39:56] *** Flow shows as "online"
[16:41:31] *** daurnimator has left the room
[16:41:35] *** daurnimator shows as "online"
[16:42:04] *** xyz has left the room
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[16:42:35] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "online"
[16:44:26] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:45:45] *** vurpo has left the room
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[16:45:55] *** vurpo shows as "online"
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[16:48:24] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:48:25] *** xyz has left the room
[16:49:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:49:12] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:49:33] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:50:15] <jonasw> (I do)
[16:51:12] *** Kev has left the room
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[16:55:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:57:48] *** intosi shows as "online"
[16:58:02] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:59:04] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[17:01:06] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[17:01:52] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:02:00] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[17:04:00] *** vurpo has left the room
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[17:05:22] *** Lance shows as "online"
[17:06:19] *** bra shows as "online"
[17:07:47] *** Tobias shows as "away"
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[17:11:52] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:12:22] *** xyz has left the room
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[17:16:44] *** Tobias shows as "online"
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[17:17:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:18:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:18:29] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:18:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:19:00] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:19:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:19:53] *** stpeter has joined the room
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[17:23:17] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:23:45] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:26:02] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[17:26:50] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:28:36] *** mancho shows as "online"
[17:29:44] *** mhterres has left the room
[17:31:05] *** mancho has left the room
[17:31:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:33:16] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:34:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:36:56] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Tadaima (Я вернулсо)!"
[17:37:45] *** suzyo has left the room
[17:37:53] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:37:54] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:38:21] *** Sonny has left the room
[17:38:43] *** daurnimator has left the room
[17:38:55] *** daurnimator shows as "away" and his status message is "weekend"
[17:38:59] *** suzyo has joined the room
[17:39:54] *** Sonny shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:40:58] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:40:58] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:42:36] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "online"
[17:42:45] *** Yagiza has left the room
[17:43:55] *** jcbrand has left the room
[17:44:32] *** ralphm has left the room
[17:44:42] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "online"
[17:44:42] *** Piotr Nosek has left the room
[17:47:52] *** Martin has left the room
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[17:49:50] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:51:01] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[17:52:29] *** suzyo has left the room
[17:52:49] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:52:49] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[17:53:52] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[17:54:32] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:54:38] *** suzyo has joined the room
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[18:00:13] *** intosi has left the room
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[18:06:38] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[18:10:35] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[18:15:00] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:15:30] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:15:30] *** Kev has left the room
[18:15:31] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:16:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:16:51] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:19:18] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[18:20:30] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:20:30] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:20:44] *** SouL shows as "online"
[18:20:44] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:24:04] *** Zash shows as "online"
[18:25:38] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:27:06] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:27:07] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:28:51] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:28:51] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[18:29:32] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[18:31:46] *** Kev has left the room
[18:32:36] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[18:35:38] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:38:27] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:38:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:40:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:41:08] *** bjc has joined the room
[18:42:24] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[18:42:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[18:43:15] *** vurpo has left the room
[18:43:17] *** vurpo has joined the room
[18:44:25] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[18:47:03] *** Zash shows as "away"
[18:47:16] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:47:16] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[18:47:50] *** xyz has joined the room
[18:51:03] *** bjc shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:51:03] *** bjc has left the room
[18:51:25] *** Kev has left the room
[18:53:17] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:53:17] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:03:24] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[19:03:42] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[19:04:43] *** vurpo has left the room
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[19:05:43] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[19:06:14] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:10:00] *** mancho has left the room
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[19:14:25] *** Zash shows as "online"
[19:15:45] *** nyco has joined the room
[19:16:14] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:21:56] *** xyz has left the room
[19:23:34] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:23:58] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:25:07] *** Kev shows as "online"
[19:26:29] *** xyz has joined the room
[19:27:33] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:28:17] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:28:17] *** intosi has left the room
[19:28:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:29:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:30:15] *** daniel has left the room
[19:30:23] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:30:26] *** daniel has joined the room
[19:32:01] *** intosi has joined the room
[19:32:30] *** xyz has left the room
[19:35:32] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[19:36:16] *** Zash shows as "online"
[19:36:54] *** xyz has joined the room
[19:38:23] *** nyco has joined the room
[19:39:55] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[19:41:40] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:41:41] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:42:21] <Zash> Can someone enlighten me about what the sane thing to do about this would be: https://prosody.im/issues/issue/836
[19:43:21] *** daniel has left the room
[19:43:34] *** xyz has left the room
[19:43:47] *** xyz has joined the room
[19:44:24] *** daniel has joined the room
[19:44:41] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[19:45:57] <Zash> Specifically, what to do with un-acked stanzas when the session times out and what order things should happen in.
[19:47:20] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:47:37] <Ge0rG> Zash: the messages get error-reflected to the MUC, causing a kick. I think this is valid
[19:47:55] <Ge0rG> At least I don't see anything mandate that the user should leave normally
[19:48:12] <Zash> Ge0rG: I don't see any text saying anything in either direction
[19:49:49] *** xyz has left the room
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[19:50:57] *** Zash shows as "dnd"
[19:51:11] *** Guus has left the room
[19:51:23] *** suzyo has joined the room
[19:51:30] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[19:51:34] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:51:42] *** winfried has left the room
[19:51:42] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[19:53:53] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[19:54:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:55:05] *** suzyo has left the room
[19:55:11] <Ge0rG> Zash: ask the submitter?
[19:55:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:55:28] *** suzyo has joined the room
[19:59:16] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:00:17] *** Kev has left the room
[20:01:25] *** Vinilox has left the room
[20:01:33] *** Vinilox shows as "online"
[20:07:58] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[20:10:00] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:11:07] *** Lance has left the room
[20:12:50] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:13:44] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[20:13:50] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:23:37] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:23:40] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[20:23:44] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:25:23] *** xyz has left the room
[20:26:00] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[20:27:58] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[20:28:44] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:28:51] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:33:52] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:33:57] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:38:58] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:39:05] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:42:18] *** suzyo has left the room
[20:42:45] *** suzyo has joined the room
[20:44:06] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:44:18] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[20:46:30] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:46:30] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:49:18] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:49:48] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:49:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:53:34] *** Alex shows as "online"
[21:02:23] *** Lance has joined the room
[21:02:23] *** Lance shows as "online"
[21:03:34] *** suzyo has left the room
[21:03:36] *** Alex has left the room
[21:04:27] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:04:39] *** suzyo has joined the room
[21:06:58] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
[21:07:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:07:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:10:09] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:10:14] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:11:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:11:32] *** daurnimator has left the room
[21:11:35] *** daurnimator shows as "online"
[21:13:25] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:17:12] *** Sonny shows as "online"
[21:17:16] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:18:14] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:21:51] *** goffi has left the room
[21:22:58] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[21:24:23] *** xyz has joined the room
[21:26:24] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[21:31:45] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[21:32:46] *** Kev has left the room
[21:33:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:33:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:35:01] *** Lance has left the room
[21:35:24] *** Lance has joined the room
[21:35:24] *** Lance shows as "online"
[21:35:30] *** suzyo has left the room
[21:36:04] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:36:04] *** intosi shows as "online"
[21:36:10] *** Lance has left the room
[21:36:24] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[21:36:25] *** Lance has joined the room
[21:36:26] *** Lance shows as "online"
[21:36:56] *** Alex has joined the room
[21:37:26] *** narcode shows as "online"
[21:37:28] *** narcode shows as "away"
[21:37:32] *** narcode shows as "online"
[21:44:40] *** intosi has left the room
[21:44:41] *** intosi has joined the room
[21:47:19] *** xyz has left the room
[21:49:18] *** Guus has left the room
[21:49:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:52:17] *** Guus has left the room
[21:52:18] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:57:44] *** efrit has joined the room
[21:59:10] *** intosi has left the room
[21:59:40] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[22:01:05] *** Alex shows as "online"
[22:04:26] *** intosi has joined the room
[22:07:06] *** Sonny has left the room
[22:07:52] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:11:06] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[22:13:44] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[22:13:45] *** Guus has left the room
[22:13:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:16:43] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:16:43] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:17:21] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[22:17:24] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "San Diego"
[22:19:16] *** Kev has left the room
[22:19:40] *** Guus has left the room
[22:19:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:23:02] *** Zash has left the room
[22:25:56] *** intosi shows as "online"
[22:31:06] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[22:36:35] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[22:36:43] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[22:41:02] *** Guus has left the room
[22:41:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:43:54] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "San Diego"
[22:46:44] *** sezuan has left the room
[22:46:46] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[22:47:05] *** jonasw has left the room
[22:47:06] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[22:47:08] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[22:47:14] *** jonasw has left the room
[22:49:46] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[22:51:05] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[22:51:52] *** Kev has left the room
[22:52:58] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:52:59] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:54:07] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[23:01:07] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[23:03:42] *** intosi shows as "online"
[23:03:42] *** daurnimator has left the room
[23:03:54] *** daurnimator shows as "away" and his status message is "weekend"
[23:06:14] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:11:06] *** Lance has left the room
[23:11:16] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:11:17] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:11:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:16:42] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:20:30] *** Lance has left the room
[23:20:35] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:20:35] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:22:01] *** Lance has left the room
[23:24:39] *** Zash has joined the room
[23:25:20] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:25:21] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:25:34] *** Kev has left the room
[23:26:42] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:26:42] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:26:43] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:27:09] *** Lance has left the room
[23:27:40] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:27:40] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:29:05] *** Lance has left the room
[23:29:10] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:29:10] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:31:43] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:39:34] *** Lance shows as "away"
[23:48:47] *** jubalh has left the room
[23:49:44] *** Alex shows as "online"
[23:57:25] *** Kev has left the room
[23:57:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:58:41] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:58:42] *** Kev shows as "away"