Tuesday, February 21, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[08:58:18] <Guus> intosi: we are in need of your magic powers once more!
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[09:00:58] <Guus> The website is missing two resources, but it is in /extensions/ which is outside of my range of influence
[09:01:04] <Guus> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep.ent should serve the file in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep.ent
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep.xsl should serve the file in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep.xsl
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[09:01:43] <Guus> (I will "pretty please" if it helps)
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[09:03:54] <intosi> Consider it done if you put sugar on top.
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[09:05:23] <Guus> pretty please with sugar on top
[09:05:46] *Guus brings out the whipped cream and starts shaking.
[09:06:00] <intosi> I'll undo the fix if you dare ;)
[09:06:47] <Guus> 0;-)
[09:07:12] <Guus> Does anyone know what this issue is about? https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/43 ralphm?
[09:09:10] <Guus> intosi: now it complains about a missing xep.dtd, which can be found in the same place. Could you do that one too, please?
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[09:09:37] <Guus> (relates to https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/196)
[09:10:56] <intosi> Sure
[09:11:20] <Guus> right, now it shows somethign
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[09:13:50] <Guus> intosi: two new 404's: pretty.css and pretty.js - these shouldgo in xmpp,org/ (root) though, not in xmpp.org/extensions/
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[09:16:31] <Tobias> Guus, or we change the XEP html to have them in extensions? instead of requiring tons of URL rewrites in the server
[09:17:31] <intosi> Or that.
[09:17:32] <Guus> Tobias: I am fine with any improvement, but currently, I'm pushing for the easy fix, which is something that we can do *now*.
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[09:18:26] <intosi> pretty.js? Don't you mean prettify.js?
[09:18:43] <Guus> prettify, indeed
[09:18:47] <Guus> both css as well as js
[09:18:59] <intosi> And where are these referenced from?
[09:19:05] <Guus> You'll notice the 404's whenever you open a url like this one: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0300.xml
[09:19:34] <Guus> the xml is loading the xsl, which in turn references the dtd, css and js, I suppose.
[09:19:45] <intosi> Guus: I don't, in fact. I see 200 responses there.
[09:19:51] <ralphm> Guus: even though we do have a page at that URL now, the original tech pages were more detailed: http://web.archive.org/web/20150313010246/http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/technology-overview
[09:19:53] <intosi> Because they load /extensions/prettify.js
[09:20:04] <intosi> ;)
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[09:20:06] <Guus> wuh? it works for me now
[09:20:10] <jonasw> Guus: I get "undefined entity" &LEGALNOTICE;
[09:20:15] <Guus> weird caching issue, I think
[09:20:16] <intosi> Yeah, after I added redirects.
[09:20:21] <Guus> ah, ok
[09:20:35] <intosi> But I'd rather fix the stylesheets in the longer run.
[09:20:41] <Guus> jonasw: feel free to suggest improvements :)
[09:20:49] <Guus> intosi: agreed: but at least now, we have a non-empty page
[09:21:16] <intosi> Right. Back to $DAYJOB
[09:21:21] <Guus> likewise
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[09:21:24] <Guus> thanks for the help
[09:21:28] <intosi> np
[09:21:32] <intosi> yw
[09:21:59] <jonasw> Guus: I’m not sure what the cause is. According to debugging tools, all resources are fetched freshly, but then again, it doesn’t even try to load xep.{dtd,ent}. I blame Firefox’ XML/XSL support.
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[09:22:29] <jonasw> force-clearing the cache doesn’t help either
[09:22:32] <Guus> jonasw: tried another browser?
[09:22:37] <jonasw> on my way
[09:23:00] <jonasw> works with chromium
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[09:23:47] <Guus> If you ever figure out what makes it work on firefox, please open an issue on github
[09:24:00] <jonasw> I’ve never used the XML versions, so I’m not sure if that’s a new issue
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[09:26:54] <Guus> it likely is not new. Does not mean we shouldn't improve if we can :)
[09:26:58] <intosi> It never worked in Firefox for me.
[09:27:18] <intosi> FWIW
[09:27:23] <jonasw> is it sensible to have a version of the XEPs around which don’t work in a major browser?
[09:27:49] <intosi> Does in Safari and Chrome now.
[09:28:03] <Guus> Prettify.js throws an exception on line 31: Uncaught DOMException: Failed to set the 'innerHTML' property on 'Element': The provided markup is invalid XML, and therefore cannot be inserted into an XML document.
[09:28:09] <jonasw> (although I’m not sure if firefox is still a major browser…)
[09:28:14] <Guus> not sure if that's related
[09:28:29] <jonasw> Guus: firefox doesn’t even get to the point where JS or anything is loaded
[09:28:31] <jonasw> it fails XML parsing
[09:28:49] <Guus> jonasw: that might be presentation only. Did you try to look at the source of that page?
[09:28:51] <intosi> Due to missing entity references. Doesn't try to load the ent file.
[09:29:03] <jonasw> intosi: or the DTD for that matter
[09:29:08] <intosi> Or that.
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[09:32:54] <Guus> Chromium warns about wrong mime-types too. the xsl is transferred as application/octet-stream
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[09:34:03] <Guus> anyways: day job.
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[11:09:21] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[11:11:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:12:05] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[11:12:05] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[11:12:08] *** vurpo has left the room
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[11:18:21] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:18:21] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[11:21:12] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[11:25:12] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[11:38:06] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[11:39:51] *** mancho shows as "online"
[11:39:55] *** xnyhps has left the room
[11:39:58] *** Tobias shows as "online"
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[11:47:02] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[11:47:18] *** Kev shows as "online"
[11:47:25] *** vurpo has left the room
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[11:49:12] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:49:57] *** Tobias shows as "away"
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[11:51:49] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:51:50] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:58:11] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[11:58:29] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:01:07] *** xnyhps has left the room
[12:01:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[12:01:23] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:01:23] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:03:58] *** kalkin has left the room
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[12:06:24] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[12:07:01] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[12:12:04] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:17:23] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:17:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[12:18:51] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:18:51] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:20:00] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[12:20:20] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:20:20] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[12:22:39] *** xyz has joined the room
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[12:25:35] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:25:35] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:32:45] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[12:33:02] *** Kev has left the room
[12:33:38] <SamWhited> There's a feature request open for Firefox but right now it doesn't support loading external resources in an XML file.
[12:35:45] *** Tobias shows as "away"
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[12:42:49] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:44:58] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[12:45:37] *** xyz shows as "online"
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[12:53:05] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[13:04:21] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[13:04:51] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
[13:05:43] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[13:05:43] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
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[13:25:47] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[13:41:43] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[13:43:28] *** Martin shows as "online"
[13:44:08] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
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[13:51:21] *** Sonny shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:53:20] *** SamWhited has left the room
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[13:54:25] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:54:25] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
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[13:59:40] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:02:24] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:08:04] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[14:08:04] *** stefandxm shows as "online"
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[14:22:34] *** xyz shows as "online"
[14:23:12] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:25:31] *** Sonny shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:27:34] *** narcode shows as "online"
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[14:33:15] <Ge0rG> XML resource redirection is an old vulnerability vector
[14:34:55] <Guus> We are down to a one-page issue list for the website :)
[14:35:10] <Guus> (no, this is not intended as a challenge to get it longer again)
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[14:38:25] <Guus> Feel free to resolve another few though
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[14:40:48] <Zash> Guus: You don't want any further issues reported eh?
[14:40:55] *** xyz has left the room
[14:41:37] <Guus> No. The website is perfect and flawless as is.
[14:41:49] <Guus> People that report issues are spreading fake news
[14:41:54] <Guus> sad.
[14:42:24] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:45:29] *** xyz shows as "online"
[14:45:45] <Guus> Oh wow. Our lower house has just voted to legalize growing of cannabis.
[14:46:16] *** Alex has joined the room
[14:46:19] <Guus> Contrary to popular believe, that was illegal here. You could legally sell it, but not grow or buy it in bulk (nice, no?)
[14:46:29] *** stpeter has joined the room
[14:47:46] <Guus> s/was/is/
[14:48:20] <Zash> As in, the non-industrial kind?
[14:48:27] <Guus> the industrial kind.
[14:48:52] <Guus> (coffee shops in Amsterdam got to get their produce from somewhere, right?)
[14:50:47] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:51:26] <Guus> There has been a weird non-enforcement policy. The violent crime related to cannabis cultivation is pretty high here.
[14:52:11] *** xyz has left the room
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[14:54:06] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:54:14] <Zash> (and by industrial I mean the kind with less psychoactive stuff, grown in some places at an industrial scale for the fibers)
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[14:56:23] <Guus> ah, no, I was referring to commercially growns stuff (vs home-grown) for recreational purposes.
[14:57:31] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
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[15:41:25] *** Zash shows as "online"
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[16:39:38] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[16:40:59] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:41:26] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[16:56:24] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[17:00:48] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:03:43] *** daurnimator has left the room
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[17:48:56] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[18:16:53] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "I'am on the move, blame the LTE if I don't react"
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[18:41:59] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:44:22] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:46:25] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
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[18:57:23] *** jonasw shows as "online"
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[18:58:41] <Lance> Given all of the discussion about bind2 and preserving client info for debugging, should we revisit and advance https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0232.html ?
[19:00:43] <Zash> > <identity category='client' name='Exodus' type='pc'/>
[19:02:08] <Zash> Lance: What they want is a persistent identifier for the device itself, not more verbose client description (As I understand it)
[19:02:15] <Zash> client or device
[19:03:39] *** Sonny shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:04:30] <Zash> I'm wondering about adding an attribute on the opening stream header for easier tracing
[19:05:10] <Zash> Then it can be visible even before you auth/bind
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[20:14:17] *** Lance has left the room
[20:14:22] *** Zash shows as "online"
[20:16:25] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[20:44:48] <Ge0rG> Zash: what kind of attribute?
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[20:46:07] <Zash> Ge0rG: <stream:stream [...] xmlns:trace="urn:example:xmpp:trace" trace:id="yaxim-xxxxxx">
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[20:49:27] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[20:49:48] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[20:52:56] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:52:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:57:43] *** vurpo shows as "online"
[20:59:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:00:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[21:13:48] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[21:19:42] <daniel> Zash: +1
[21:20:02] <daniel> And get rid of client assigned resources (even in parts) once and for all
[21:20:13] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[21:20:21] <MattJ> +1
[21:21:00] <MattJ> If we get rid of client-assigned resources, I'll do my best to prevent Ge0rG from ever seeing another UUID
[21:21:21] <Zash> I see no need in changing the current spec however
[21:21:56] <daniel> Zash: current as in regular bind?
[21:22:03] <MattJ> daniel, btw, just to confirm I saw your post about 313 and MUC <x> elements - going to have a look at that tomorrow. I remember we chatted about it a while back
[21:22:05] <daniel> Yes regular bind can stay
[21:22:06] <Ge0rG> daniel: aren't you the one with the broken client-generated resource implementation? :D
[21:22:39] <Zash> Ge0rG: I believe you can do the above Right Now if you wanted, pretty sure it shows up in debug logs. No idea about servers other than Prosody however.
[21:22:50] <Zash> Ge0rG: And it would work earlier.
[21:23:08] <Zash> As in, before bind/auth
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[21:23:29] <Ge0rG> Zash: I want that trace:id to be in all log lines affecting that client please. even MUC debug messages on the MUC service.
[21:23:32] *** mancho shows as "online"
[21:24:29] <Zash> daniel: I mean the rules (client can suggest something, server picks something). I'm sure bind2 can improve the protocol and make things better.
[21:24:35] <daniel> Ge0rG: i belive Conversations is one of the few clients that show the disco name when it comes to resource selection (for jingle or otr)
[21:25:50] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:26:38] <daniel> Zash: I don't see the benefit in a client suggesting something
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[21:26:47] *** mancho shows as "online"
[21:26:47] <Zash> daniel: Don't suggest something then.
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[21:28:47] <Ge0rG> daniel: how is that an answer to my question? And how does it work with multiple instances of the same client?
[21:30:11] <Ge0rG> daniel: you can just admit it and pretend to be ashamed, and I'll leave for the night ☺️
[21:30:52] <Zash> Outside of client developers, how many have multiple instances of the same client?
[21:32:15] <Zash> Suppose you can show timestamp of last stanza received from each resource.
[21:32:29] <Zash> And other presence details
[21:33:57] <daniel> Well I guess the ultimate goal is to never show that resource selection at all
[21:34:51] <daniel> And instead use message initiation for jingle
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[21:59:40] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:00:41] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[22:02:10] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
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[22:12:10] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[22:28:42] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[22:39:04] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:39:05] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[23:05:15] *** bra shows as "online"
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[23:15:13] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[23:27:23] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[23:29:41] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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