Wednesday, March 01, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:00:20] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[00:02:37] *** daniel has joined the room
[00:05:42] *** kaboom has left the room
[00:05:44] *** kaboom has joined the room
[00:07:35] *** Mancho has left the room
[00:09:21] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[00:10:45] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[00:10:48] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[00:14:56] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[00:20:22] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[00:21:12] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[00:21:16] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[00:22:33] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[00:28:33] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[00:30:53] *** kaboom has left the room
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[00:32:22] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[00:32:25] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[00:35:56] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[00:37:29] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[00:37:31] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[00:48:17] *** jere has left the room
[00:57:06] *** jere has joined the room
[01:01:41] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[01:03:14] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[01:03:19] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[01:08:46] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[01:18:49] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[01:21:56] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[01:29:13] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[01:35:12] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[01:43:17] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[01:49:16] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[01:50:41] *** Zash shows as "away"
[01:55:16] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[01:58:55] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[02:00:21] *** Zash shows as "online"
[02:00:23] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[02:00:29] *** tim@boese-ban.de has joined the room
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[02:06:56] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
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[02:08:48] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[02:12:56] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[02:13:33] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:13:33] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:15:27] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:15:27] *** arc shows as "online"
[02:15:56] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[02:20:58] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:20:58] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:21:06] *** moparisthebest has left the room
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[02:21:57] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
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[02:26:01] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:26:01] *** arc shows as "online"
[02:27:57] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[02:29:09] *** kaboom has left the room
[02:35:00] *** bra shows as "online"
[02:41:00] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:41:00] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:48:01] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[02:48:17] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[03:07:04] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:19:18] *** moparisthebest has left the room
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[03:20:40] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[03:20:40] *** arc shows as "online"
[03:27:04] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:31:05] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[03:31:05] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[03:33:08] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[03:35:53] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[03:35:53] *** arc shows as "online"
[03:38:59] *** bra shows as "online"
[03:39:55] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[03:43:29] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[03:48:04] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[03:52:16] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:55:09] *** bra shows as "online"
[04:03:38] *** Tobias shows as "online"
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[04:12:56] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:12:56] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:14:38] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:14:38] *** arc shows as "online"
[04:19:01] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[04:20:43] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[04:23:16] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[04:24:07] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:24:07] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:29:16] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[04:30:12] *** Mancho has joined the room
[04:35:19] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:35:19] *** arc shows as "online"
[04:36:32] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[04:39:40] *** Lance has left the room
[04:40:44] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[04:45:52] *** Guus has left the room
[04:45:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:03:21] *** daniel has left the room
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[05:09:39] *** bra shows as "online"
[05:24:23] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[05:25:13] *** Guus has left the room
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[05:29:34] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[05:29:34] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[05:30:06] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[05:30:40] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[05:30:40] *** arc shows as "online"
[05:32:19] *** Guus has left the room
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[05:42:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:42:54] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[05:43:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:45:13] *** jere has left the room
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[05:49:06] *** mimi89999 has left the room
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[05:50:06] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[05:50:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:50:47] *** sezuan has left the room
[05:50:52] *** bra shows as "online"
[05:53:12] <jonasw> Ge0rG, :D
[05:57:26] *** goffi has joined the room
[05:57:36] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "В столовую"
[05:59:50] <jonasw> (re 21:44:26 Ge0rG> "The "S" in IoT stands for Security." just has become my quote of the year.)
[06:01:02] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[06:02:17] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:02:17] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:02:19] *** sezuan shows as "online"
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[06:04:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:05:54] *** daniel has left the room
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[06:06:47] *** bra shows as "online"
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[06:13:56] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:13:56] *** arc shows as "online"
[06:14:10] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[06:15:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[06:26:46] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[06:28:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[06:32:43] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
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[06:33:17] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:33:17] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:34:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:36:41] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:36:41] *** arc shows as "online"
[06:37:48] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:38:43] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[06:38:46] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:40:48] *** xnyhps has left the room
[06:40:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[06:45:43] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[06:47:11] *** xnyhps has left the room
[06:49:53] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:49:53] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:50:48] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[06:51:53] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:51:53] *** arc shows as "online"
[06:52:48] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[06:52:49] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[06:54:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:57:12] *** sezuan shows as "online"
[06:58:20] *** SamWhited has left the room
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[06:59:28] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:00:20] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:01:08] *** vurpo has left the room
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[07:02:27] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[07:05:43] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[07:10:20] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[07:19:22] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[07:20:50] *** Guus has left the room
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[07:22:37] *** Lance has joined the room
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[07:24:52] *** bra shows as "online"
[07:26:37] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:29:51] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
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[07:35:55] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[07:35:55] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[07:36:08] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[07:36:20] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:36:34] *** daniel has left the room
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[07:37:57] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
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[07:46:26] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[07:57:04] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[07:57:27] *** bra shows as "online"
[07:59:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:02:09] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:03:23] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[08:03:40] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[08:06:32] *** kalkin shows as "online"
[08:08:30] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[08:13:10] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:13:36] *** suzyo has joined the room
[08:15:40] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:18:10] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:18:31] *** bra shows as "online"
[08:19:10] *** vurpo has left the room
[08:20:56] *** Mancho shows as "online"
[08:21:40] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:22:02] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[08:22:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:22:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:22:22] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:23:37] *** Valerian has joined the room
[08:25:40] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:30:03] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "online"
[08:34:24] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:36:50] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:37:42] *** jubalh has joined the room
[08:38:36] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:38:37] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:39:12] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
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[08:40:56] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:40:57] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:41:03] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:45:47] *** Piotr Nosek shows as "online"
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[08:58:52] *** intosi shows as "online"
[09:01:01] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
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[09:03:28] *** Alex shows as "online"
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[09:09:13] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[09:10:24] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[09:11:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[09:19:30] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[09:22:00] *** intosi shows as "online"
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[09:22:44] *** Lance has joined the room
[09:22:45] *** Lance shows as "online"
[09:26:55] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:27:05] *** intosi shows as "online"
[09:29:18] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:30:24] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[09:32:04] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:32:47] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[09:34:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[09:35:52] *** devnull shows as "chat" and his status message is ""I hope it does, he thought, see clearly, because I can't any longer these days see into myself. I see only murk. Murk outside; murk inside. I hope, for everyone's sake, the scanners do better. ""
[09:36:06] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[09:39:09] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[09:39:12] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[09:39:22] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
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[09:50:32] *** Martin shows as "online"
[09:50:43] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:51:46] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:51:49] *** Martin shows as "online"
[09:54:58] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[09:56:15] *** suzyo has left the room
[09:57:10] *** Mancho shows as "online"
[09:57:13] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[09:59:19] *** Mancho has left the room
[09:59:49] *** Kev has left the room
[10:01:48] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[10:01:59] *** bra shows as "online"
[10:04:00] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[10:05:10] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[10:09:40] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:10:08] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[10:11:34] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[10:12:45] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[10:14:34] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:18:29] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[10:18:36] *** daniel has left the room
[10:18:47] *** daniel has joined the room
[10:20:29] *** sonny shows as "online"
[10:24:34] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:27:52] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:30:38] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:31:57] *** Flow shows as "online"
[10:32:45] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[10:34:29] *** bra shows as "online"
[10:34:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:39:02] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[10:42:44] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[10:48:10] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:49:36] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[10:49:48] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[10:50:27] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:50:27] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:51:05] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:53:21] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:53:21] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[10:54:36] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:54:58] *** Yagiza has left the room
[10:55:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:58:38] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:58:38] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[10:59:19] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[11:00:14] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:00:41] *** devnull shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[11:01:32] *** jubalh has left the room
[11:02:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:02:51] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[11:04:32] *** Valerian has left the room
[11:06:40] *** devnull shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[11:07:36] *** vurpo has left the room
[11:07:40] *** vurpo has joined the room
[11:10:58] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[11:11:45] *** Martin shows as "online"
[11:11:45] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:18:08] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[11:19:19] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[11:21:08] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[11:21:08] *** vurpo has left the room
[11:21:10] *** vurpo has joined the room
[11:23:25] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:26:57] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[11:27:05] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[11:31:06] *** winfried has left the room
[11:31:49] *** lskdjf has left the room
[11:34:32] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:34:36] *** Martin shows as "online"
[11:37:08] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[11:37:08] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[11:38:14] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:38:17] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:38:54] *** Mancho has left the room
[11:42:21] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:42:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:44:54] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:45:39] *** Guus has left the room
[11:46:00] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:46:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:46:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:46:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:46:43] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:51:19] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[11:51:19] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[11:52:49] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[11:52:49] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[11:58:25] *** daniel has left the room
[11:58:33] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:02:00] *** jere has joined the room
[12:10:07] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:10:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:11:43] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:11:47] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:12:47] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[12:14:54] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:24:37] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[12:24:51] *** Yagiza shows as "xa" and his status message is "買いにいってます (Ушёл в магазин)"
[12:24:58] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:25:19] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[12:25:35] *** daniel has left the room
[12:26:50] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:26:54] *** nyco has left the room
[12:26:58] *** nyco shows as "online"
[12:30:25] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:31:24] *** Guus has left the room
[12:31:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[12:31:48] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:32:46] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[12:36:50] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:38:45] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:38:47] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:38:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:39:10] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:39:10] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:44:24] *** Mancho has left the room
[12:46:42] *** Mancho has joined the room
[12:48:30] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[12:48:37] *** Alex shows as "online"
[12:48:38] *** Alex has left the room
[12:49:30] *** Alex has joined the room
[12:50:52] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:50:52] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[12:51:06] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[13:00:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:03:17] *** Piotr Nosek has left the room
[13:03:17] *** Piotr Nosek has joined the room
[13:03:25] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:03:47] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[13:05:40] *** Guus has left the room
[13:06:16] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:08:46] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:11:05] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:11:05] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:13:27] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:13:48] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[13:13:58] *** Valerian has left the room
[13:17:35] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[13:17:40] *** Alex shows as "online"
[13:20:12] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:22:13] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[13:22:18] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:22:20] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:23:22] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[13:23:44] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:23:44] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:23:50] *** Lance has joined the room
[13:23:51] *** Lance shows as "away"
[13:27:40] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[13:29:31] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:29:33] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:30:12] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:31:21] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:32:11] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[13:32:51] *** kalkin has left the room
[13:34:24] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[13:34:25] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[13:35:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:36:06] *** waqas has joined the room
[13:38:29] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[13:41:03] *** Lance has left the room
[13:42:23] *** ilmaisin has joined the room
[13:43:51] *** ilmaisin has left the room
[13:45:12] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:45:18] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:45:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:45:45] *** Zash has left the room
[13:47:40] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[13:48:13] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:48:18] *** Guus has left the room
[13:48:38] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:49:16] *** Alex shows as "online"
[13:49:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:49:18] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[13:49:36] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[13:49:36] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[13:52:21] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[13:52:21] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[13:55:19] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:57:34] *** jere has left the room
[13:57:41] *** jere has joined the room
[13:58:39] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[14:00:46] *** kaboom has joined the room
[14:03:35] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:03:43] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[14:03:43] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[14:03:53] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:03:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:04:04] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[14:04:09] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[14:05:00] *** Flow has joined the room
[14:05:35] *** Valerian has joined the room
[14:06:49] *** Guus has left the room
[14:07:05] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:08:42] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:09:02] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:09:05] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:09:06] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:09:08] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:09:51] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:10:12] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:10:50] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:11:38] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:11:55] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[14:12:06] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:12:09] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:12:38] *** daniel has left the room
[14:14:44] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:16:11] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:17:32] *** Holger shows as "online"
[14:18:01] *** Holger shows as "online"
[14:18:11] *** iiro.laiho has joined the room
[14:19:26] *** Holger has left the room
[14:21:45] *** lskdjf has left the room
[14:21:48] *** ilmaisin has joined the room
[14:22:10] *** iiro.laiho has left the room
[14:24:54] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:26:22] *** Flow shows as "online"
[14:27:27] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[14:28:16] *** Kev has joined the room
[14:28:17] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:29:23] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:29:58] *** ilmaisin shows as "away"
[14:31:15] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:31:43] *** ilmaisin shows as "online"
[14:32:51] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:32:53] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:33:01] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:35:07] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:35:11] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:36:59] *** jubalh has joined the room
[14:37:52] *** jubalh has left the room
[14:38:29] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:38:43] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:38:44] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:40:17] *** Flow shows as "online"
[14:40:35] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:41:14] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[14:41:35] *** bra shows as "online"
[14:42:02] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:43:06] *** Zash has left the room
[14:43:09] *** Zash has joined the room
[14:43:14] *** Zash shows as "online"
[14:43:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:44:26] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:44:52] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:44:53] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:45:18] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:48:58] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:48:59] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:49:30] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:50:49] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:52:35] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:52:37] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:52:50] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:53:57] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:54:01] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:54:34] *** sonny has left the room
[14:54:40] *** sonny shows as "online"
[14:54:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:55:19] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:55:50] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[14:56:03] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[14:57:54] *** lskdjf has left the room
[14:58:00] *** Piotr Nosek has left the room
[14:58:14] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[14:59:35] *** vurpo has left the room
[14:59:37] *** vurpo has joined the room
[15:00:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:01:48] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:03:19] *** Mancho shows as "online"
[15:03:49] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[15:03:51] *** Flow shows as "online"
[15:03:58] *** Valerian has left the room
[15:05:26] *** intosi has left the room
[15:05:29] *** lskdjf has left the room
[15:05:43] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[15:06:01] *** lskdjf has left the room
[15:06:27] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[15:07:30] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:07:30] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:08:30] *** Valerian has joined the room
[15:09:21] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:09:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:11:48] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:11:52] *** lskdjf has left the room
[15:12:03] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[15:13:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:13:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:14:10] *** winfried has left the room
[15:14:13] *** winfried has joined the room
[15:15:03] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:23:36] *** lskdjf has left the room
[15:23:37] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:24:39] *** intosi has joined the room
[15:26:53] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:26:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:28:45] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:32:39] *** suzyo has joined the room
[15:38:31] *** kalkin shows as "online"
[15:38:45] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:39:04] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:39:04] *** arc shows as "online"
[15:42:41] *** Tobias has left the room
[15:42:49] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[15:43:52] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[15:47:38] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:48:42] *** bra shows as "online"
[15:51:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:52:23] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[15:53:01] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[15:53:18] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[15:54:18] *** Martin shows as "online"
[15:54:26] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:54:34] *** Flow shows as "online"
[15:55:28] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:56:07] *** sezuan has left the room
[15:56:08] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:56:22] *** jonasw has left the room
[15:56:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:57:42] *** SamWhited has left the room
[15:58:38] *** jere has left the room
[15:58:52] *** jere has joined the room
[16:00:00] *** intosi has left the room
[16:00:08] *** Valerian has left the room
[16:00:58] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:01:14] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:01:15] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:02:15] *** Flow shows as "online"
[16:02:17] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[16:04:06] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[16:05:22] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[16:06:08] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:06:35] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:07:20] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:07:23] *** Martin shows as "online"
[16:07:29] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:07:31] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:09:21] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:09:43] *** kaboom has left the room
[16:10:15] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:11:00] *** sonny shows as "online"
[16:11:07] *** xnyhps has left the room
[16:11:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[16:11:33] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:11:43] *** SamWhited has left the room
[16:11:54] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[16:14:00] *** Kev has left the room
[16:14:13] *** Mancho has left the room
[16:14:27] *** daniel has left the room
[16:14:59] *** SamWhited has left the room
[16:15:22] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[16:15:36] *** bra shows as "online"
[16:16:07] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:17:07] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:20:26] *** daniel shows as "online"
[16:23:04] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[16:23:08] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[16:23:24] *** Lance has joined the room
[16:23:24] *** Lance shows as "away"
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[16:51:21] <nyco> huh... is there a board meeting?
[16:51:44] <Zash> Never ending board meeting, yes
[16:52:11] <nyco> oh right
[16:52:33] <nyco> so is the gavel continuously banging? I don't hear it
[16:53:07] <SamWhited> (I keep meaning to ask RE the never ending board meeting jokes: is there a subject or something set that mcabber doesn't show? IDGI)
[16:53:18] <Zash> /topic
[16:53:18] <mathieui> SamWhited, the topic
[16:53:35] <Zash> > The room subject is now: Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
[16:53:57] <SamWhited> Huh, I don't see that; maybe mcabber never updates the subject
[16:54:03] <SamWhited> I see
[16:54:06] <SamWhited> > XSF discussion room | Logs:…
[16:54:14] <Zash> Ha
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[16:54:42] <SamWhited> oh no, I had this discussion with someone; that's the title of the bookmark (set by Mcabber or Conversations or whatever I added it with) which I guess was the title at the time; mcabber shows whatever the bookmark contains
[16:54:53] <SamWhited> These jokes are lost on me :)
[16:55:03] <Ge0rG> The subject that is the topic, but not the description?
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[16:55:04] <Zash> That's ... sorta sensible I guess
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[16:55:27] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: why should it set the subject as the name?
[16:55:47] <SamWhited> Showing the bookmark title seems sensible, not sure about setting the bookmark title to the subject (but I'm also not sure what I created this bookmark with in the first place, so no idea where that came from)
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[16:56:18] <Ge0rG> Easy XMPP clients will show the disco#info name. I'm sure they will.
[16:56:23] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think it's probably Conversations that does this, so ask there
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[16:56:25] <Ge0rG> Unfortunately, the name of this MUC is "xsf".
[16:57:01] <SamWhited> maybe we should have a name, a pretty name, a description, a subject, and a bookmark name. *pokerface*
[16:57:04] <ralphm> Hi all
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[16:57:12] <nyco> hi
[16:58:05] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: so the first item would be the "ugly name"?
[16:58:55] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: yup, the never-changing single-word-no-spaces-no-special-chars name (no idea why, just 'cause). Maybe it's the local part of the JID.
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[16:59:31] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: see you in the SgmLxqI+A0tOdwPfVXNdd1H4 chat room.
[16:59:41] <arc> holy crap.
[16:59:52] <arc> Google can't even federate their own chat apps.
[17:00:21] *ralphm bangs gavel
[17:00:51] <ralphm> 1. Welcome
[17:00:55] <Ge0rG> the board meeting goes into its third week
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[17:01:07] <ralphm> Who's there, any agenda items?
[17:01:13] <Martin> *wave*
[17:01:22] *dwd takes some minutes.
[17:01:32] <arc> Present
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[17:02:09] <ralphm> I assume nyco, too.
[17:02:13] <nyco> yep
[17:02:15] <ralphm> Do we have MattJ?
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[17:02:18] <nyco> https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
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[17:02:59] <ralphm> As a note upfront, I've been swamped with work and haven't kept tabs on anything XMPP for the last two weeks.
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[17:03:58] <ralphm> One item for me is IEEE
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[17:04:32] <ralphm> anything else?
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[17:05:12] <nyco> Discourse, Board priorities
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[17:05:20] <ralphm> OK
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[17:05:54] <ralphm> 2. IEEE
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[17:05:55] <ralphm> We
[17:06:21] <arc> What happened to a decision on software listed on the site?
[17:06:41] <arc> That's old business
[17:06:53] <ralphm> 've received a message from William Miller on IEEE IoT efforts and their desire to incorporate our IoT specs in more of their work.
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[17:07:33] <arc> But they're not our specs. The XEPs they are referring to are expired and defunct
[17:07:36] <ralphm> Asking to move them to Active
[17:07:56] <ralphm> I don't want to go into the details in this meeting.
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[17:08:21] <ralphm> I think we should ask Council to provide guidance on how to move forward, and possibly appoint a liason to the IEEE for this work.
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[17:08:34] <arc> +1
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[17:09:07] <arc> third party people implementing defunct XEPs and pushing them as standards to other standards groups is a situation we need council to get on top of
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[17:09:18] <SamWhited> With my council hat on (though I can't speak for everyone else of course) I think this is a matter for the IoT SIG to decide; if they want to improve the current XEPs, they will be reopened, if not, they can create new ones (possibly while working with the IEEE group)
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[17:10:15] <SamWhited> But I do agree that if we *don't* want to improve the existing ones (and I think the consensus at the summit was that we don't), then we should definitely be careful to try and stop people from implementing them if there are known issues or we're not going to push them as official standards.
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[17:11:09] <ralphm> I'm not sure if they really need these specs per se, but rather just XMPP-based ones.
[17:11:19] <MattJ> Hey, sorry, another meeting overran
[17:11:21] <arc> I'd like someone from board to reach out to Mr Miller re: XSF membership, they should have at least one person from their firm if they're implementing
[17:11:41] <dwd> With my Council hat on, the IoT SIG is subject to Council, so if Board asks the Council to Do Something, then I imagine Council will ask the IoT SIG and make a decision based on that input. But a Liaison as a first step seems sensible.
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[17:11:55] *SamWhited nods
[17:12:01] <ralphm> And even though there is an IoT SIG, this is exactly why I wanted a Council person to be heading the IoT SIG
[17:12:12] <arc> he appears to be in Washington DC given his phone number. I'd be happy to reach out to him, have coffee with him, etc
[17:12:58] <ralphm> Sure thing.
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[17:13:36] <ralphm> SamWhited: can council at least work with Rikard and the IoT SIG to come up with a strategy?
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[17:14:28] <ralphm> I don't think "we're throwing away the current specs" is a sensible approach to start interacting with IEEE
[17:14:30] <SamWhited> ralphm: That sounds sensible; I didn't mean to suggest that we shouldn't be involved. I'll add an agenda item for next week
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[17:15:55] <SamWhited> https://trello.com/c/5SHoH80M
[17:16:13] <SamWhited> Done; comments can go there if you want us to discuss anything in particular next week.
[17:16:28] <ralphm> Who wants to formulate a response to William to kick off interaction with the IEEE?
[17:16:34] <ralphm> I'd like that to not wait until next week
[17:16:57] <dwd> Is that not Arc's coffee meeting?
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[17:17:20] <ralphm> Maybe yes
[17:17:40] <arc> im not going to meet with him about IEEE as much as to understand what his firm is doing and explain what XSF is, encourage membership, etc
[17:18:19] <arc> leaving council issues aside, the part of the email that stuck out is he's speak from outside the XSF. and we really want implementors in the XSF.
[17:18:35] <dwd> I'd have thought that's a reasonable first response.
[17:19:09] <ralphm> arc: sure, we can to the actual IEEE liasoning or whatever later.
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[17:19:28] <arc> I think council does need to come up with a strategy for the iot stuff besides this
[17:19:40] <dwd> arc, Agreed.
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[17:20:12] <ralphm> Yes, so that's part of what SamWhited's agenda item
[17:20:37] <ralphm> Any other comments on this?
[17:20:48] <MattJ> None here, sounds like a plan
[17:21:05] <ralphm> 3. Discourse
[17:21:06] <Martin> Yep, sounds good to me
[17:21:10] <ralphm> nyco?
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[17:21:38] <nyco> yes, the thread on the mailing list
[17:21:51] <nyco> also: Je pense
[17:21:54] <SamWhited> RE Discourse: If this is seriously being considered, I would like to have a(nother?) public comment period so that I can complain about what a terrible experience it is a lot. I won't waste time in the council meeting with it though.
[17:21:55] <nyco> oops
[17:22:02] <nyco> https://trello.com/c/qcPd55vA/260-use-discourse-on-discuss-xmpp-org
[17:22:04] <SamWhited> s/council/board/
[17:22:25] <dwd> nyco, Donc, je suis?
[17:22:32] <nyco> more or less ;-)
[17:22:33] <ralphm> I haven't read the discussion in great detail, but don't feel we have problem that needs resolving here
[17:22:38] <ralphm> on a technical level
[17:23:01] <nyco> we indeed have issues, that are worth admitting
[17:23:09] <nyco> Discourse is a great solution
[17:23:24] <arc> I'm not so hot on Discourse too, and agree with the sentiment that we should aim for an XMPP based solution
[17:23:34] <MattJ> I haven't used it, so can't really comment
[17:24:55] <arc> adding a new discussion media is a long term burden to the XSF that shouldn't be done lightly
[17:24:59] <nyco> we discussed quite extensively at the Summit around modernism
we lack this, like very badly
also, we should lower the barrier of entry
[17:25:02] <ralphm> I'm happy for people to play with this, but I'd hate to use this as a main thing for any of our current mailing lists before gaining significant experience.
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[17:25:20] <nyco> ralphm, mailing list is still there
[17:25:27] <MattJ> Maybe we could trial it for some discussion venues, but not others?
[17:25:37] <nyco> MattJ, IoT WG
[17:25:45] <ralphm> nyco: but not the mailman archives, right?
[17:25:52] <nyco> MattJ, also maybe if we wake the CommTeam back from the dead?
[17:26:10] <dwd> nyco, No, thanks. I'd rather it was used for jdev, or something else that's not a SIG.
[17:26:13] <nyco> ralphm, better archives, with real search that brings actual results, and tagging
[17:26:20] <SamWhited> Worth answering (but not necessarily right now): If we trial it for a WG, can we be sure that we can get to the archives later or move back to a mailing list if we decide not to use it long term?
[17:26:33] <ralphm> I a trial can be done without any changes in the current setup, as an add-on, I'm ok
[17:26:35] <SamWhited> (or anywhere really, but especially if it's an official function of the XSF like a WG)
[17:26:36] <ralphm> if
[17:26:41] *Flow likes to point out that the IoT SIG would want to use discourse
[17:27:11] <ralphm> nyco: I'm sure everything is nicer, better, awesomer. I'd like to not have an disruption to the current setup.
[17:27:16] <ralphm> any
[17:27:24] <nyco> ralphm, agree
[17:27:39] <ralphm> Flow: I know, but I also don't want IoT to not be on an island. Especially not IoT.
[17:27:57] <nyco> mailman 2 is an island
[17:28:06] <nyco> we're all on it... :'(
[17:28:10] <dwd> How about setting up an entirely new discussion venue?
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[17:28:25] <ralphm> dwd: hm?
[17:28:26] <MattJ> That's kinda what I meant
[17:28:40] <nyco> dwd, yeah on Slack!
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[17:29:03] <dwd> Create, say, a UX "list", but make it Discourse (or something) instead.
[17:29:30] <ralphm> Oh. In that case, something like SCAM would be appropriate
[17:29:54] <MattJ> Some measurement of success would be to ensure not just that the new system was used, but also that existing XSF members participated in it
[17:30:04] <ralphm> Right
[17:30:08] <arc> to quote the Zen of Python, "Now is better than never, Although never is often better than *right* now."
[17:30:09] <nyco> or not
[17:30:12] <MattJ> We don't want to throw out our existing community in an attempt to appear shiny to other groups of people
[17:30:30] <nyco> ity uccess, right?
[17:30:32] <arc> I want to reraise the issue that Discourse is not in any way XMPP based.
[17:30:36] <MattJ> I'd wager most of our existing community is just fine with the current setup (except searchable archives would be nice)
[17:30:39] <arc> this was a concern raised on the thread.
[17:30:44] <Flow> Look at Discourse as you would look at an upgrade from Mailman2 to Mailman3
[17:30:53] <ralphm> So the question becomes, who is doing it?
[17:30:56] <MattJ> arc, for that matter, mailman is in no way XMPP based :)
[17:30:56] <Flow> Nobody is throwing out the existing community by using Discourse
[17:31:02] <nyco> arc, so it mailman
[17:31:04] <nyco> is
[17:31:24] <arc> mailman is simply email. It doesn't use fancy realtime features more suitable to XMPP
[17:31:31] <MattJ> Flow, that sounds great - though I've heard conflicting opinions on whether that's true (I can't say myself as I haven't used it)
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[17:31:38] <ralphm> We're in overtime.
[17:31:48] <nyco> we will attract non-members, which is good(tm)
[17:32:00] <ralphm> So, again, who's taking this on, and do what?
[17:32:10] <Flow> ralphm: I already volunteered
[17:32:16] <SamWhited> I've been using it for the past few weeks since this came up; I resubscribed to the rust-users list (which I unsubscribed from before a few weeks after they moved to Discourse) to see if things had changed. I turned on mailing list mode, and used it from my client. It was not a plesant experience.
[17:32:48] <nyco> let's just start to install it for IoT SIG
[17:32:50] <MattJ> SamWhited, concrete issues would be helpful to know (but not necessarily right here right now)
[17:33:16] <arc> I'm -1 on implementing this. I don't think a strong enough argument has been made for its need, and it could add a signifigant future burden to migration in the future
[17:33:23] <nyco> the current experience is less than pleasant
[17:33:27] <nyco> stuck in the past
[17:33:45] <nyco> we need that wave of modernism
[17:33:52] <nyco> well contemporarism
[17:34:14] <SamWhited> I think I outlined them on the list last time, but if this discussion starts up I'll go through and write out the individual pain points again.
[17:34:18] <ralphm> I'm -1 on implementing this for an existing group, and specifically for IoT
[17:34:30] <nyco> they want it
[17:34:43] <ralphm> They also wanted Skype for Business
[17:34:57] <MattJ> Let's (someone?) set up a new venue for starters, that's an actual first step
[17:35:08] <nyco> so you're saying what they want is irrelevant?
[17:35:19] <arc> nyco: I don't disagree with you that this would be good, the arguments against Discourse are on the merits of Discourse itself, not against innovative solutions
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[17:35:29] <ralphm> nyco: no, I'm saying that we as an organisation are responsible for it working properly
[17:35:35] <MattJ> Then after it's up, we can discuss moving venues to it at a later date
[17:35:40] <SamWhited> Not irrelevant, but also not the top concern; they may want it, but the rest of the XSF has to read this stuff too, and having archives will be important later. There are just more considerations than "they want it and it's shiny"
[17:35:42] <ralphm> and I think IoT has other, bigger issues
[17:35:46] <arc> nyco: I am not joining the IoT SIG exactly because of their choices of non-XMPP mediums for discussion.
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[17:36:04] <Flow> arc: We use Jitsi Meet since months
[17:36:34] <MattJ> I have no idea what work is currently being done in the IoT SIG, nor how to find out
[17:36:41] <MattJ> I didn't know it was still active
[17:36:49] <arc> exactly, MattJ
[17:37:04] <nyco> Discourse will make that visible... ;-)
[17:37:13] <MattJ> Mmmmhm
[17:37:27] <Flow> The visibility of Mailman2 mailing lists
[17:37:37] <Zash> Can you all pretend that I asked "Why?" to every statement in here?
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[17:37:55] <Flow> I'm sure you can easily follow what happened in iot@ by reading the mailman2 archive
[17:38:01] <Flow> , not.
[17:38:16] <SamWhited> Why would Discourse make that any easier to follow?
[17:38:17] <ralphm> nyco: it wouldn't make it more visible. The last message before today was January 8
[17:38:31] <nyco> ralphm, yes, it would, that's one of the points
[17:38:40] <ralphm> https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/iot/
[17:38:41] <Flow> SamWhited: No subpages per months, as starter.
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[17:39:09] <ralphm> I can follow my e-mail client archives just fine, and I agree with MattJ
[17:39:11] <MattJ> Didn't the IETF have a nicer browser for mailman archives, if this is the issue?
[17:39:18] <SamWhited> Oh, I see, you're assuming the web interface. Yah, that's pretty bad, however, Discourse's non-web interface is pretty bad, so we're just trading one bad interface for another.
[17:39:23] <Flow> MattJ: That's one of the issues
[17:39:24] <MattJ> i.e. I'm sure existing work has been done in this area
[17:39:24] <nyco> ralphm, so can you with Discourse
[17:40:05] <ralphm> nyco: my point is that I don't believe non-movement in IoT is going to be solved by new technology for discussion
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[17:40:44] <nyco> ralphm, true, but non-movement on our discussion means are killing
[17:40:45] <Flow> ralphm: As Guus what he thought about moving Openfire to github years ago. And read what he now writes in the ignite realtime blog
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[17:40:57] <Ge0rG> Can't we just ask politely to add the list of affected xeps into the subject when posting to our lists?
[17:41:03] <Zash> There are prettier web frontends to mailing lists around, like Nabble, http://lua.2524044.n2.nabble.com/
[17:41:05] <Zash> So it's doable
[17:41:10] <SamWhited> That's different; GitHub is a central community with network effect. A Discourse instance isn't.
[17:41:10] <arc> I think the correct way forward on this is to have a discussion session for future-comms where multiple solutions can be discussed. Not simply a "I think we should move to X solution".
[17:41:34] <nyco> Zash, still ugly and old style, frightening
[17:41:53] <ralphm> arc: form?
[17:42:02] <nyco> SamWhited, to achieve network effect thanks to its value, then do lower the barrier of entry
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[17:42:18] <SamWhited> nyco: However, for many it reduces value
[17:42:19] <arc> mailing list or a MUC chat
[17:42:27] <Flow> No, correct way to move forward is to do something. But within the XSF you will always find someone who is opposing that is why nothing happens ever.
[17:42:33] <nyco> SamWhited, I'm saying network value, Metcalfe's Law
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[17:42:54] <nyco> Flow, agree, non-action hurts so badly
[17:43:01] <Flow> It was similar with the new xmpp.org homepage
[17:43:05] <nyco> don't give me the problem of resources
[17:43:18] <Flow> Simon also got yelled at for trying to move forward
[17:43:37] <nyco> the non-members, the external communities than we need so badly, will welcome that move
[17:43:43] <ralphm> Flow: ok, if you can set up Discourse in such a way that we *also* keep having archives in Mailman as we have now, you have my blessing.
[17:43:49] <ralphm> Is that possible?
[17:44:01] <arc> I'm ok with that, too.
[17:44:12] <nyco> why not disrupt?
[17:44:24] <nyco> are you doing nothing, to keep the comfort of a few?
[17:44:35] <Flow> ralphm: My idea was roughly to start with a test setup, and then switch one ML after another ot discourse and then eventually make mailman2 read-only.
[17:44:41] <dwd> nyco, You know that disruption isn't a means to an end?
[17:44:54] <nyco> dwd, ;-)
[17:44:54] <ralphm> Flow: ok, but can you run in hybrid mode?
[17:45:05] <arc> Flow: enough concerns have been raised to that, its not going to happen
[17:45:12] <Flow> We can always try to find someone to migrate the old posts to discourse if we want
[17:45:30] <Flow> arc: Concerns like?
[17:45:31] <nyco> arc, enough concerns have been raised to stay that way
[17:45:33] <arc> this isn't one person objecting. several people have concerns over the proposal
[17:45:39] <Flow> ralphm: hybrid mode?
[17:45:53] <nyco> arc, several people are all for it
[17:46:14] <nyco> if we want actual numbers, we can call for a survey
[17:46:36] <arc> something as fundamental as our communication medium affects everyone. for that, there should be rough consensus to change.
[17:46:46] <SamWhited> This isn't about numbers or a vote, it's about the people who are for it assuming that the burden of proof to show that this is a good idea is on everyone else and not addressing the valid concerns brought up by others on the list.
[17:46:46] <Flow> yeah, a members vote would be great thing to get a feeling what the XSF members think
[17:47:09] <SamWhited> (although I'm not against gathering numbers or data, of course, why not? Sounds nice.)
[17:47:12] <nyco> arc, the state of our current infra is affecting everyone, including the ones who don't join, because...
[17:47:13] <Flow> SamWhited: I think I've addressed most, if not all, concerns raised on the ML thread
[17:47:38] <dwd> Flow, I think running up a discourse instance with a real - but not critical - workload would be a sensible step.
[17:47:55] <dwd> Flow, We could also then try other options (Movim, maybe?).
[17:48:02] <ralphm> Flow: what I said before: if you can run it such that messages go to both Discourse and Mailman's archive, then please go ahead
[17:48:09] <ralphm> Same with other platforms
[17:48:13] <nyco> dwd, why Movim?
[17:48:21] <dwd> nyco, Why not?
[17:48:29] <ralphm> I want to stop this discussion as part of this meeting now.
[17:48:33] <nyco> dwd, because mailing list?
[17:48:43] <nyco> ok
[17:48:48] <arc> Flow: If I'm not mistaken, what you want is a more modern communications medium. Your chosen solution to that is Discourse. But other solutions could meet your needs. That is why we should discuss this in a new-comms meeting
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[17:49:15] <nyco> arc, I have not seen any equivalent, please enlighten us
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[17:49:23] <ralphm> please stop
[17:49:26] <arc> ralphm is right, we're way over time.
[17:49:27] <Flow> ralphm: Well I suppose you could do that with the help of your MTA. But I'm not sure if it's a good idea. What would be the advantage?
[17:50:15] <nyco> so, we end the meeting? or address the last agenda item?
[17:50:17] <ralphm> Flow: I want to either have a setup that doesn't involve current workgroups so we can test, evaluate, *or* something that doesn't affect the current infra
[17:50:33] <ralphm> (so that Discourse would just be an alternative interface)
[17:51:04] <nyco> I propose we put an end to that meeting
[17:51:14] <MattJ> Seconded
[17:51:17] <ralphm> nyco: I'm still at the office with a 2 hour commute ahead. I'm going to end this meeting
[17:51:18] <nyco> the neverending meeting may have a one-week pause
[17:51:41] <ralphm> I'm happy for people to keep discussing this afterwards
[17:51:44] <nyco> ok then thanks all! it was a great discussion!
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[17:51:48] <ralphm> 4. Date of next
[17:51:49] <ralphm> +1W
[17:51:51] <nyco> +1
[17:51:52] <ralphm> 5. Close
[17:51:58] *ralphm bangs gavel
[17:52:00] <ralphm> Thanks all!
[17:52:04] <MattJ> Thanks
[17:52:06] <nyco> thx, see yah
[17:52:08] <arc> Thanks ralph
[17:52:16] <Martin> Thanks ralphm,
[17:52:29] <SamWhited> Flow: Yah, sorry, went back and looked, I never did send my concerns about it, so obviously you didn't reply to them :) will do that next time this comes up on the mailing list or whenever arc's comms meeting happens.
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[17:53:36] <Flow> It's interesting how our experience divergates. Discourse has major traction within the open-source forum software. I find it very enjoyable on mobile and on my workstation, and I really like that I can use it just like mailman
[17:53:45] <ralphm> Flow: please don't feel discouraged. I am really curious about new things, but worried about inertia and continuity.
[17:54:00] <Zash> MattJ: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/
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[17:54:14] <MattJ> Zash, I know. Source doesn't appear to be available?
[17:54:18] <MattJ> Can't find it
[17:54:28] <SamWhited> I'm pretty sure the disagreement is going to be starkly divided down the line of how it's used: If you use the web/mobile apps, it's very nice. If you use it as a mailing list, it's terrible.
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[17:55:00] <Flow> Well I already decreased my investment in XSF stuff, because it is nearly impossible to change something. Discourse on the other hand is something that I really think the XSF needs most right now. So it's the only thing I currently pursue
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[17:55:47] <Flow> SamWhited: Did they run a version which included https://github.com/discourse/discourse/commit/74b6fe8739d86dc2284707e8507ac732420a1b8c ?
[17:55:51] <SamWhited> I still don't understand what benefit it gives us that a search box and a slightly nicer interface wouldn't
[17:55:59] <Zash> MattJ: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/browser/ maaybe?
[17:56:01] <Flow> It's not only the search box
[17:56:19] <Flow> Just hat you can tag threads with the xep numbers is a huge win IMHO
[17:56:20] <SamWhited> Flow: That was one of the changes between last time and this time when I tried it, they did, and it was *much* better. But still a pretty terrible experience.
[17:56:52] <Flow> Looking forward to your elaboration what made it so terrible on members@ thread
[17:57:00] <SamWhited> (or at least, I assume that was one of the changes; that would explain a lot of the improvements around replying)
[17:57:10] <MattJ> Zash, well done
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[17:58:18] <Flow> Our Mailing List, especially standards@, is a huge pile of valuable information, yet it's not really accessible
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[17:58:42] <SamWhited> It sends a bunch of garbage HTML, doesn't use conventions in the plain text version (and leaks some form of [bbcode] or something into the plain text), it sends different "topics" from different email addresses so it's hard to write filters (though admittedly, this sounds like it could be how the rust-users and rust-internal instances were configured), off the top of my head. There were others; replies were broken somehow still, but I don't recall now, I'd have to go look.
[17:58:58] <MattJ> Flow, Discourse won't fix that unless it can import the archives (can it?)
[17:59:30] <Flow> Sure you can. You just probably need to write the code doing so
[17:59:52] <Flow> But I think 1. that there are many mailman2 instances upgrading to discourse, so it's only a matter of time until someone does write that code
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[18:00:03] <SamWhited> What's wrong with this IETF thing? It looks nice and would fix the accessibility problem (assuming we can get the source from them, which I'm sure we could)
[18:00:06] <arc> Flow: again, I think decoupling the specific solution you've chosen to champion from the needs to be addresed is a good first step
[18:00:14] <Flow> and 2. we can always do the import later
[18:00:14] <SamWhited> What arc said
[18:00:38] <Flow> yeah, i'm already sold on discourse for various reasons
[18:00:47] <Flow> so I don't need to decouple that
[18:00:57] <SamWhited> You do if you want to convince anyone else
[18:01:14] <Flow> true, but not everyone
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[18:02:19] <Flow> IMHO Discourse is without alternatives and the best horse to bet on
[18:03:04] <arc> that's not a great position to bring to a discussion like this.
[18:03:46] <Flow> why not? I try to back my claims with arguments. And I'm happy if you convince me of an different alternative
[18:04:36] <Zash> Flow: Take this: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6778 s/IETF/XSF/ and call it a day ;)
[18:05:40] <arc> I haven't made a decision yet. What you're feeling as push-back is against the "right now" aspect to your drive. XSF has used MUC and email forever. The board, council, and most WGs use these.
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[18:06:32] <arc> The first part of the push-back is the expediency, people have said that the case hasn't been made to why these things have to change right now.
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[18:07:03] <MattJ> Well to be fair, if not "right now" then it'll be never, based on experience :)
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[18:07:17] <arc> "Now is better than never, although never is often better than *right* now"
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[18:08:49] <arc> that comes from the python-dev list. very (very) often people comes through saying that X or Y or Z is mission critical, that Python is driving away potential new users because it doesn't have a feature, or a change to the C-API is absolutely necessary or they couldn't use Python, etc
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[18:09:03] <arc> in almost every case decisions made "right now" are regretted.
[18:09:38] <SamWhited> Maybe someone (don't really care who, but it probably shouldn't be someone who's completely against Discourse like me, or completely for it like Flow) should evaluate several options and report back instead of us just making it an argument about "discourse or nothing". Other options have been thrown out, but the gist of the argument has mostly been about moving to discourse, not about improving in general.
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[18:10:27] <arc> MattJ is right, we need to act on it or it'll be forgotten. So Flow and nyco have ruffled feathers, people are activated, lets sit down like engineers and sort out what we want to do
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[18:12:08] <arc> I have questions as to MIX - in 2 years when we're all using MIX instead of MUC, will it be possible to merge our chat conversations with mailing list conversations in a meaningful way
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[18:12:56] <nyco> The timeline may be of a lesser importance here
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[18:13:35] <Zash> Merging slow, long form communications with quick, short form comms is probably not very easy in non-technical ways.
[18:16:02] <arc> im thinking more in terms of archives
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[18:17:43] <Zash> Ha
[18:17:48] <Zash> https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/ProjectSetup#CheckingouttheSourceCode
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[18:20:00] <arc> Zash: what is this?
[18:20:35] <MattJ> Modern
[18:21:08] <Zash> arc: I don't know. Unless I've gotten lost, it may be the source code to https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/
[18:21:40] <MattJ> I think this is just the archive stuff: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/browser/mailarch/trunk
[18:21:51] <SamWhited> (if we can find the source, we should try it; this is very nice)
[18:22:27] <arc> its an archive front-end to mailman?
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[18:22:30] <SamWhited> Although if you want to post from a web interface, which might be one of the discours peoples desires, it's hard to tell, it won't help
[18:22:32] <MattJ> RabbitMQ dependency... doh
[18:22:45] <arc> lol
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[18:23:11] <arc> what is it using rabbitmq for?
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[18:24:02] <MattJ> They seem to have some independent processes, maybe for syncing with the mailman archive and indexing
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[18:25:06] <arc> holy crap. its march 1st. I can code again.
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[18:28:12] <MattJ> Go slow, maybe stick with just Lua for a while :)
[18:28:41] <arc> i have a month of ideas for libexi
[18:29:04] <arc> you should see the pages of rubics cube algorithms ive written out
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[18:33:00] <arc> but the month off was good i think. my vocabulary has returned, i should see the doctor again before i start again though
[18:33:13] <arc> get a new baseline to see what the month break resulted in
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[18:33:59] <arc> i'll just read today.
[18:34:08] <Zash> dwd, ny?
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[19:32:45] <dwd> Oh! That's where that went.
[19:33:09] <dwd> So I *entirely* lost that while typing, and had no idea it was actually sent.
[19:34:30] <Zash> heh
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[22:23:24] <SamWhited> Zash: I think this is the mailing list stuff the IETF uses that we were looking for earlier: https://code.google.com/archive/p/ml-archive/
[22:23:41] <SamWhited> It has some similarly named resources anyways…
[22:24:04] <Zash> > 404. That's an error.
> The project ml-archive was not found.
[22:24:17] <Zash> SamWhited: I found some svn repo with some Python stuff in it.
[22:24:29] <SamWhited> I just clicked through to the sources and now it says there isn't any… something weird is happening.
[22:24:37] <Zash> Yay Google
[22:24:51] <Zash> /lastlog recent links I've pasted here
[22:25:06] <SamWhited> Zash: Oh, I thought the one you posted Mat or somebody said was just a database or something
[22:25:14] <SamWhited> but yah, looks like it… nevermind, already found.
[22:26:24] <Zash> SamWhited: I don't know for sure what I found, I've stayed too far from python web dev to know how to get whatever it was running.
[22:26:33] <SamWhited> That's a smart plan.
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[22:33:09] <Zash> Worked with a homebrewed Python + MongoDB web framework at my last job.
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[22:42:59] <Zash> Email, sigh.
[22:43:45] <Zash> The thing in XMPP where the same connection is used for incoming and outgoing traffic is pretty nice.
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[23:51:12] <Ge0rG> Zash: like in s2s?
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[23:51:52] <Zash> Ge0rG: {xep 288}
[23:51:54] <Bunneh> Ge0rG: XEP-0288: Bidirectional Server-to-Server Connections (Standards Track, Draft, 2016-10-17)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0288.html
[23:52:14] <Zash> Ge0rG: I mean the feature where I don't have to type my password 3 times to send an email.
[23:53:23] <Zash> Or have 3 different passwords.
[23:54:49] <Ge0rG> I haven't entered my password for email in the last three years. It's stored in a plaintext config file
[23:56:06] <Zash> I haven't figured out how to save my password in mutt yet.
[23:56:41] <Zash> So I get the pleasure of typing a password for IMAP, a password for GPG and a password for submission.
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