Friday, March 24, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
March
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
    1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27 28 29 30 31    
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:02:10] *** Alex has left the room
[00:02:10] *** Alex has left the room
[00:03:39] *** bjc shows as "away"
[00:26:21] *** bjc shows as "online"
[00:38:14] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[00:43:15] *** bjc shows as "away"
[00:43:16] *** bjc shows as "online"
[00:43:37] *** SamWhited has left the room
[00:46:38] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[00:47:59] *** Zash has left the room
[00:53:39] *** kaboom has left the room
[00:54:42] *** SamWhited has left the room
[00:57:16] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[00:57:33] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[01:02:10] *** waqas has left the room
[01:10:01] *** Guus has left the room
[01:12:36] *** kaboom has left the room
[01:14:49] *** Zash shows as "online"
[01:16:11] *** bjc shows as "away"
[01:16:18] *** bjc shows as "online"
[01:22:24] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:23:08] *** waqas has joined the room
[01:23:29] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[01:31:53] *** bjc shows as "away"
[01:35:45] *** bjc shows as "online"
[01:38:02] *** google-is-lord has joined the room
[01:39:04] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:39:04] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:46:20] *** Zash has left the room
[01:58:50] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[01:58:58] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[02:06:49] *** Tobias has left the room
[02:10:29] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:10:29] *** arc shows as "online"
[02:37:49] *** bjc shows as "away"
[02:53:32] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:53:32] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:54:20] *** uc has joined the room
[02:55:53] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:55:53] *** arc shows as "online"
[03:00:00] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[03:00:06] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[03:06:26] *** Tobias has left the room
[03:16:09] *** Lance has joined the room
[03:16:10] *** Lance shows as "online"
[03:41:33] *** Zash has joined the room
[03:48:17] *** Zash shows as "online"
[03:52:54] *** Zash has left the room
[04:16:31] *** Lance has left the room
[04:43:52] *** kalkin has left the room
[04:44:41] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[04:44:48] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[04:46:44] *** vurpo has left the room
[04:46:48] *** vurpo has joined the room
[04:48:59] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:48:59] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[04:55:44] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "お風呂に入っています (Купаюсь)"
[04:55:49] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "お風呂に入っています (Купаюсь)"
[04:59:26] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[04:59:31] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[05:05:55] *** Tobias has left the room
[05:09:34] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[05:13:48] *** kalkin has joined the room
[05:25:58] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:26:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:28:51] *** waqas has left the room
[05:35:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:36:09] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:37:47] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[05:37:47] *** arc shows as "online"
[05:38:02] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[05:38:08] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:38:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:40:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:40:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:51:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:51:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:52:26] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[05:52:26] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[05:53:17] *** bra has joined the room
[05:55:09] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[05:57:48] *** vurpo has left the room
[05:57:50] *** vurpo has joined the room
[05:58:19] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:58:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:58:33] *** goffi has joined the room
[05:59:36] *** SouL shows as "online"
[06:00:06] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[06:00:10] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[06:03:45] *** Guus has left the room
[06:04:28] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:07:14] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[06:11:09] *** bra shows as "online"
[06:15:57] *** vurpo has left the room
[06:16:00] *** vurpo has joined the room
[06:19:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:19:50] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:22:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:23:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:28:08] *** nyco shows as "online"
[06:28:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:28:26] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[06:31:43] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[06:31:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:32:21] *** bra shows as "online"
[06:40:00] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[06:40:08] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[06:43:43] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[06:43:44] *** daniel has left the room
[06:43:47] *** ralphm has left the room
[06:43:51] *** daniel has joined the room
[06:44:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:48:35] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[06:50:23] *** bra shows as "online"
[06:51:37] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:51:50] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:52:50] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:53:01] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:53:01] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[06:54:44] *** arc shows as "online"
[06:54:49] *** vurpo has left the room
[06:54:50] *** vurpo has joined the room
[06:55:03] *** vurpo shows as "online"
[06:56:04] *** efrit has joined the room
[06:56:40] *** nyco shows as "online"
[06:57:44] *** efrit has left the room
[06:57:58] *** efrit has joined the room
[06:59:27] *** efrit has joined the room
[07:04:36] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[07:06:15] *** Guus has left the room
[07:06:38] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:07:41] *** daniel has left the room
[07:07:50] *** daniel has joined the room
[07:08:02] *** Yagiza has left the room
[07:10:32] *** vurpo has left the room
[07:14:49] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[07:19:06] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:19:06] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:21:51] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:21:52] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:25:53] *** bra shows as "online"
[07:28:40] *** intosi has joined the room
[07:29:38] *** intosi shows as "online"
[07:33:07] *** nyco shows as "online"
[07:35:55] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[07:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[07:37:57] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:38:29] *** Guus has left the room
[07:39:04] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[07:39:12] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:43:08] *** nyco shows as "online"
[07:43:15] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[07:46:24] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:46:26] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:47:50] *** bra shows as "online"
[07:48:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:55:15] *** xnyhps has left the room
[07:55:19] *** Flow has joined the room
[07:55:58] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[07:56:29] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[07:57:37] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[08:00:08] *** arc shows as "online"
[08:00:32] *** Flow has left the room
[08:00:52] *** winfried shows as "away"
[08:01:29] <Guus> nyco?
[08:02:20] <jonasw> we should make a nice graph of at which time of day people make their renewal commits :)
[08:02:50] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[08:02:52] *** intosi shows as "online"
[08:03:09] <Ge0rG> jonasw: yeah, it might be leaking private information.
[08:03:21] <Guus> jonasw: did you account for people setting the renewal date in the future? :)
[08:03:43] <jonasw> Guus, not in the linting, but good idea
[08:03:47] <edhelas> hi guys, once again we are working on a new XEP that will replace Bookmarks in the futur, https://lite5.framapad.org/p/OlHwr5GBlY
[08:03:51] <jonasw> Ge0rG, *shrug*, so does making a commit in your library
[08:05:46] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[08:07:01] *** kalkin has left the room
[08:08:17] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[08:08:19] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Devon"
[08:08:20] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Devon"
[08:09:54] <jonasw> Guus: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/300
[08:10:29] <edhelas> also https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/458 :)
[08:11:58] <Guus> edhelas: I weild no power in that repo. You'll need SamWhited or friends for that, I think.
[08:12:27] <edhelas> Guus, no problem ;) it was just to drop the link here
[08:13:29] <nyco> Guus, yes?
[08:14:02] *** Flow has joined the room
[08:14:16] <Guus> nyco: l wanted to discuss with you if I should do something that I now already have done :)
[08:14:20] <Guus> (see github)
[08:14:51] <Guus> we should get your blogpost published!
[08:15:26] <jonasw> it would be great if the website showed the commit used to build it somewhere, even if only somewhere hidden in the source.
[08:15:40] <Guus> jonasw: make it so.
[08:15:42] <jonasw> that’d save us the "has it rebuilt yet or did something obscure fail?" guesswork
[08:15:43] <nyco> Guus, I agree, but we've just published one... this afternoon maybe ?
[08:15:56] <nyco> Guus, category Events, fixed
[08:16:14] <Guus> nyco - there will be a unknown delay between the merge being done, and the change being visible on the website.
[08:16:28] <nyco> like minutes?
[08:17:08] <Guus> unsure. I think there is a process that checks a couple of times per day if the website needs to be updated.
[08:17:16] <Guus> so, possibly, hours.
[08:17:18] <jonasw> I think so, too
[08:18:14] *** Yagiza has left the room
[08:19:50] <Guus> jonasw, I think you're the resident expert: is there value in upgrading pelican from 3.3 to whatever is the latest version?
[08:20:04] <jonasw> I don’t know, actually
[08:20:06] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:20:19] <jonasw> I have started using pelican only a few weeks ago, either ;-)
[08:20:32] <jonasw> (but then spent a few intense days to port two websites to it)
[08:20:42] <nyco> ok, then let's push when we think it's good, and it's updated when it's updated... ;-)
[08:20:58] <jonasw> Guus: in case of doubt, don’t change a running system
[08:20:58] <Guus> which makes you the expert. :)
[08:21:21] <jonasw> I don’t even know which version is recent…
[08:21:29] <Guus> jonasw: agreed. I was actually running locally with 3.7 (which was wat I got with a default install), which gave me errors.
[08:21:32] <jonasw> 3.7 according to my debian…
[08:21:40] <jonasw> huh
[08:21:42] <jonasw> it builds the website fine here
[08:21:50] <jonasw> (3.7.1)
[08:21:51] <Guus> nyco: it looks good to me now. Do you want another screenshot?
[08:22:14] <nyco> yes please, if it takes less than 30 seconds
[08:22:22] <Guus> jonasw: for me, the menu was kaput. Also, 3.7 was more forgiving when I neglected to specify the number of items in a menu correctly.
[08:22:32] <jonasw> Guus: you need to run make devserver or something though instead of simply running pelican for reasons unknown to me
[08:22:46] <jonasw> oh right
[08:22:47] <jonasw> menu
[08:23:01] <jonasw> that explains why I had a hard time finding the software lists when testing :D
[08:23:14] <jonasw> well, that’s one good reason to wait with upgrading
[08:23:20] <jonasw> or at least plan it properly
[08:23:37] <Guus> nyco: 32. I counted. Nost of that was trying to resize the browser window.
[08:23:47] <nyco> toooooo long!!!
[08:23:48] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:24:10] <Guus> jonasw: agreed - but it does suggest that there are important changes, which made me wonder.
[08:24:25] <jonasw> Guus: ctrl+shift+m on firefox (re resizing)
[08:24:30] <Guus> jonasw: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/247
[08:24:30] <nyco> yes, cool, I see no glitch... thx Guus! ;-)
[08:24:40] <nyco> also, on our blog, we should insert visuals
[08:24:48] <nyco> can I do that, or it's too late?
[08:24:58] <Guus> go for it
[08:25:12] *** Valerian has joined the room
[08:26:10] <nyco> I upload a picture to the repo? or use an online pic?
[08:26:11] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[08:26:30] <Guus> lol, I added the screenshot to the wrong PR :P
[08:26:34] <jonasw> nyco: put it in content/images/, maybe in a new blog subdirectroy
[08:26:35] <Guus> nyco: I have no clue.
[08:26:48] <jonasw> then the only question is how to reference it properly, this varies with pelican versions unfortunately
[08:27:21] <nyco> ok, we'll try on another blog post
[08:27:25] <jonasw> what *should* work is this: |filename|/images/blog/thenameofyourimage.foo
[08:27:26] <nyco> sorry no time for today
[08:27:37] <nyco> ok
[08:28:01] <jonasw> (filename is literally filename, see here: http://docs.getpelican.com/en/stable/content.html#deprecated-internal-link-syntax )
[08:30:18] <Guus> nyco, are or are you not going to change anything?
[08:30:36] <nyco> Guus, not this time
[08:30:46] <Guus> Then I"ll merge now.
[08:32:34] <Guus> done.
[08:32:51] <Guus> any concerns about https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/294 ?
[08:34:24] <jonasw> yes
[08:34:28] *** Flow has left the room
[08:34:49] <Guus> jonasw: what concerns?
[08:34:57] <jonasw> making a review right now, at least I found a typo
[08:35:09] *** daniel has left the room
[08:35:50] <Guus> nyco: can we remove https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Meetups and use the website instead?
[08:36:02] <Guus> duplicate accounting will only result in problems
[08:36:48] *** daniel has joined the room
[08:36:50] <jonasw> Guus: review done
[08:36:54] <nyco> good catch!
[08:36:58] <nyco> I'm on it
[08:37:56] <Guus> typo fixed
[08:39:24] <Guus> link added
[08:40:14] <Guus> I'm tempted to make futher improvements in future PRs, if needed
[08:40:21] <jonasw> no objections
[08:40:30] <Guus> could you do one last sanity check?
[08:40:35] <jonasw> just thought the typo needs to be fixed before, the others are merely MAY suggestions
[08:40:44] <Guus> absolutely, tx
[08:41:27] <jonasw> Guus: works for me
[08:42:05] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:42:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:42:47] <jonasw> +1
[08:42:58] <Guus> done
[08:43:05] <Guus> I'm gonna merge my own updates too
[08:43:10] <Guus> *naughty*
[08:43:48] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:44:00] <jonasw> do it
[08:44:24] <Guus> done it
[08:44:24] <jonasw> looks better that way than with three open renewal PRs pending
[08:44:36] <jonasw> that may evoke bad feeling for some who waited months to have their software listed ;-)
[08:44:39] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[08:44:40] <jonasw> *feelings
[08:44:51] <jonasw> (or servers)
[08:45:02] <jonasw> can we close website PR # 193?
[08:45:05] <jonasw> https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/193
[08:45:13] <jonasw> the changes it carries are obsolte anyways
[08:45:27] <Guus> great minds
[08:45:29] <Guus> I just closed it
[08:45:55] *** kalkin has joined the room
[08:46:48] <jonasw> :)
[08:47:12] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[08:47:27] *** bra shows as "online"
[08:47:44] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:47:57] *** arc shows as "online"
[08:49:05] *** kaboom has joined the room
[08:49:14] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:53:28] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[08:56:12] <jonasw> goffi makes a good point here: <https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/jdev/2017-March/090299.html>
[08:57:03] <jonasw> do we want that? If so, on a separate page or below the servers listing?
[08:57:10] <jonasw> Finding good components is not trivial to be sure
[08:57:19] <Ge0rG> my gut feeling is to merge it with the servers lisst
[08:57:21] <jonasw> and also it highlights a core feature of XMPP, being able to interface with other protocols by embedding them
[08:57:25] <Ge0rG> my gut feeling is to merge it with the servers list
[08:57:32] <jonasw> I wouldn’t merge it, because they’re different things, but putting them on the same page might work
[08:57:41] <Ge0rG> good to me too
[08:57:47] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[08:57:48] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[08:57:50] <Ge0rG> same page, different table
[08:57:57] <jonasw> right
[08:57:58] <Ge0rG> also we really should have that description field.
[08:58:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:58:45] <jonasw> I just now realised you’re not Guus. I got tricked despite colours. (I blame it on the fact that the pidgin colours changed radically when I changed the background color by only a few bits from 99% white to 98% white or something)
[08:58:58] <jonasw> yes, for components it’s definitely needed, otherwise you don’t know what it is.
[08:59:07] <jonasw> *sigh*
[08:59:22] *** Lance has joined the room
[08:59:23] *** Lance shows as "online"
[09:01:44] *** kalkin has left the room
[09:01:59] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:02:01] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:02:37] *** ralphm has left the room
[09:04:23] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:04:23] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:04:44] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[09:04:44] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[09:05:26] <Guus> Stop impersonating me Ge0rG!
[09:05:51] <Guus> There's something to adding server components to a public list. I don't have a preference how that's done.
[09:07:37] <Ge0rG> Guus: I'd change my nickname, but that's impossible because of MSN restrictions.
[09:07:53] *** Flow has joined the room
[09:08:00] <intosi> Ge0rG: switch to AIM, and you're done.
[09:08:27] <jonasw> *switch to AIM to reach your goals
[09:09:18] <Ge0rG> but my aim isn't very good
[09:09:40] <Guus> I think this concludes my round of fixes for today
[09:10:07] <Guus> I'd be greatful if someone *eyes intosi* could help sort out some of the issues that need access to the file system of the webserver
[09:10:45] <Guus> (where did the XEP archives go? Can we add various redirects? Delete the old ical files + related infra, etc)
[09:10:46] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[09:10:58] <intosi> Guus: tickets?
[09:11:16] <intosi> Or a ticket, at least ;)
[09:11:35] <Guus> https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/280
[09:11:39] <Guus> https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/279
[09:11:47] <Guus> possibly https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/242
[09:12:00] <Guus> https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/241
[09:12:23] <Guus> https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/224 (which is somewhat duplicated by another one)
[09:13:04] *** Martin has joined the room
[09:13:08] *** nyco shows as "online"
[09:13:39] <Guus> also, I don't know what this means: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/152
[09:13:56] <Guus> ... and that's just from a quick glance over the issue list... :)
[09:15:01] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:15:20] <jonasw> of 152, I think most don’t apply to a static website without confidential content or interaction.
[09:15:30] <intosi> ETOOMANYTICKETS
[09:15:34] <intosi> ;)
[09:15:36] <jonasw> you asked for it! ;-)
[09:15:50] <Guus> I'm trying to get that fixed intosi, but there's only so much I can do myself
[09:15:55] <Guus> (which i mostly did, afaik)
[09:16:13] <Guus> what do you guys think about https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/212 ? We should either commit to it, or close the issue.
[09:16:29] <Ge0rG> IMO, closing 152 as WONTFIX would be OK
[09:16:42] *** Lance has left the room
[09:16:55] <intosi> I fail to see what 279 tries to cover that 224 doesn't.
[09:17:01] <Guus> please comment on the ticket, which makes it less awkward for me to close it.
[09:17:09] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:17:10] <Ge0rG> Guus: +1 to WONTFIXing 212
[09:17:15] <Guus> intosi: yeah, probably duplicates.
[09:17:35] *** kalkin has joined the room
[09:17:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[09:17:44] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:18:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:20:55] *** jere has joined the room
[09:21:00] <Guus> also, https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/275 - no one but me really likes that, right?
[09:21:11] <Guus> in which case it should be closed
[09:21:25] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[09:22:00] <Ge0rG> meh. you can't click on blog post titles on https://xmpp.org/blog.html to read the full version.
[09:22:00] <intosi> 275 is not something I will fix for you ;) It's content anyway, so you can fix it, or not fix it, without help ;)
[09:22:29] <Guus> yes - apart from the annoying bit that I don't know any of those people :D
[09:22:32] <Ge0rG> I think the issue with 275 is to find the right text for the individual persons listed
[09:22:35] <jonasw> Ge0rG: right, that annoyed me too
[09:22:42] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[09:22:45] <jonasw> it’s easy-ish to fix though
[09:22:47] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:22:53] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Hataraite imasu (работаю)"
[09:22:56] <Guus> jonasw: please do
[09:23:05] <Ge0rG> jonasw: +1
[09:23:08] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:23:40] <jonasw> you two are guilty for the dirty kitchen!
[09:24:08] <jonasw> I take it back. the CSS is SASS
[09:24:35] <jonasw> I cannot into sass
[09:24:58] <Guus> jonasw: please note that I am here just slightly longer than you :)
[09:25:08] <Guus> but I like cooking...
[09:25:19] <Ge0rG> jonasw: how is that a CSS issue? Isn't it rather about HTML <a>?
[09:25:28] <jonasw> yes, but it changes the colour of the header then
[09:25:32] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[09:26:46] <Ge0rG> jonasw> of 152, I think most don’t apply to a static website without confidential content or interaction.
can you add that to the ticket?
[09:27:12] <jonasw> did
[09:27:27] <Guus> intosi, out of curiosity: what is the update frequency of the website (how often does it check for changes in github), and why?
[09:27:46] <jonasw> Guus, Ge0rG: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/301
[09:28:23] <Guus> screenshot?
[09:28:40] <jonasw> on my way
[09:28:41] *** kaboom shows as "online"
[09:29:34] <jonasw> >.>
[09:29:38] <jonasw> github doesn’t like my screenshots
[09:29:42] <jonasw> "That file is hidden"
[09:29:46] <jonasw> "Something went really wrong"
[09:30:28] <Guus> wow.
[09:30:38] <Guus> I just use 'select file' in the comment box
[09:30:41] <jonasw> yes
[09:30:42] <jonasw> that’s what I do
[09:30:47] <Guus> file permission problem?
[09:31:00] <jonasw> now it works
[09:31:12] *** bra shows as "online"
[09:31:47] <jonasw> screeshot attached
[09:31:49] <Guus> perhaps put quotes around the title in the link?
[09:32:04] <jonasw> I also thought about prefixing it with "about"
[09:32:10] <Guus> Continue reading 'New XMPP Software Listing Rules'
[09:32:22] <jonasw> it’s reaaallly hard to edit those files while the devserver thing writes over your vim terminal btw :D
[09:33:00] *** nyco shows as "online"
[09:33:04] <Guus> I have this handy Vagrant image...
[09:33:08] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:33:30] <Guus> (or you just could use two terminals)
[09:34:08] <Guus> yeah, that's better
[09:34:09] <jonasw> new commit+screenshot attached
[09:34:13] <jonasw> agreed
[09:34:46] <jonasw> ping Ge0rG
[09:35:11] <Guus> I'm not bothered by the missing green
[09:35:22] <Guus> if anything, it makes it more coherent with the rest of the site
[09:35:26] <jonasw> I liked the touch of colour, and I’ll probably bring it back once I figure out how to use sass
[09:35:37] <jonasw> it makes it less coherent on how the blog article looks after you followed that link
[09:35:48] <Guus> ah, right.
[09:36:13] <jonasw> last time I tried to use sass I was baffled that it takes 30 seconds to process a few files
[09:36:28] *** Martin shows as "online"
[09:36:32] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:36:45] <jonasw> ugh
[09:37:37] <Guus> yeah, I frequenly work with people that gave Maven flak for downloading a lot of stuff and taking a lot of time. I now get to look at them funny every time they make me do npm install.
[09:37:57] <jonasw> :>
[09:38:55] <Guus> The PR looks good to me. I'll leave it sit for a bit for others to be able to comment
[09:39:20] <jonasw> looking forward to do apt remove npm grunt; apt autoremove after this
[09:39:28] <jonasw> grave bugs of npm (→ 1.4.21+ds-2) <Outstanding>
b1 - #857986 - npm: package is 3 years old (consider removal?)
Summary:
npm(1 bug)
[09:39:46] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[09:41:31] <jonasw> I cannot into sass, now it’s not finding some included files which also aren’t in the repository.
[09:43:59] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:44:02] *** Martin shows as "online"
[09:48:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:51:06] *** Alex has joined the room
[09:51:09] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:51:32] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "お風呂に入っています (Купаюсь)"
[09:51:41] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "お風呂に入っています (Купаюсь)"
[09:51:42] *** Alex has left the room
[09:52:01] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:52:22] *** Alex shows as "online"
[09:54:12] *** Alex has left the room
[09:54:12] *** Alex has left the room
[09:57:01] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:58:42] <Guus> intosi, anything I can help with?
[09:59:20] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:59:21] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[10:00:45] <intosi> Just triaged right now. Where I made remarks, consider them and you (or others) provide an answer, and I'll make it so when it's more convenient, and doesn't interfere with my actual job ;)
[10:01:07] <jonasw> ah, right, intosi, can you give some details on how the website is built on the server? I’d like to know (a) if it is rebuild completely (i.e. with a fresh output directory) every time and (b) if so, does it do that unconditionally any N hours or does it check if a "change" happened and (c) if the latter, how does it detect a "change"?
[10:01:21] <intosi> Peace, out.
[10:01:24] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:01:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[10:01:55] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[10:02:01] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[10:02:04] <jonasw> ah, darn, too slow
[10:02:06] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[10:02:17] *** Alex has joined the room
[10:02:44] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[10:03:53] *** Yagiza has left the room
[10:04:13] *** kalkin has left the room
[10:09:43] *** Yagiza has left the room
[10:11:05] *** jonasw has left the room
[10:12:12] <Guus> thanks for your help! I'm off to do some work that actually pays bills too :)
[10:12:22] <intosi> (Y)
[10:12:48] <Guus> I've provided feedback where needed, I think. As far as I'm concerned: just do it. (c)(r)(tm).
[10:13:08] <Guus> things here are left in limbo way too long for my comfort
[10:13:26] <Guus> an improvement that is later improved upon further is better than having no improvement at all.
[10:14:04] *** kalkin has joined the room
[10:14:52] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:16:49] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[10:20:49] <Guus> bear, can this be closed: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/109 ?
[10:22:44] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[10:24:46] <Guus> hmm: I can't add an "item for discussion" on the Trello board for the Board. Could someone add https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/175 there? It's a relative simple clean-up.
[10:24:50] *** bra shows as "online"
[10:24:51] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:25:28] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[10:25:31] <Guus> dwd / ralphm / samWhited ?
[10:25:35] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:25:37] *** Alex shows as "online"
[10:26:20] *** kalkin has left the room
[10:26:25] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[10:26:56] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[10:29:25] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[10:29:31] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[10:30:16] *** Holger has left the room
[10:34:36] <Ge0rG> jonasw: +1 to the blog changes, even with blue instead of green
[10:35:19] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[10:36:16] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[10:36:46] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[10:39:41] *** kalkin has joined the room
[10:39:50] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:43:16] *** kaboom has left the room
[10:44:14] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[10:45:12] *** kalkin has left the room
[10:47:07] *** bra shows as "online"
[10:48:12] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[10:48:18] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[10:49:50] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:49:55] *** Valerian has left the room
[10:49:56] *** Valerian has joined the room
[10:50:50] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[10:51:15] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:56:05] *** vurpo shows as "online"
[10:56:12] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[10:58:24] *** Flow shows as "online"
[10:59:44] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[11:01:15] *** bra shows as "online"
[11:01:15] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:01:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[11:01:57] *** Martin has left the room
[11:01:57] *** Martin has joined the room
[11:02:37] *** kalkin has joined the room
[11:02:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:02:49] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[11:03:00] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[11:05:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:05:22] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:07:02] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[11:07:02] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[11:10:08] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:10:23] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:10:24] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:11:50] *** vurpo has left the room
[11:11:58] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:12:53] *** nyco has left the room
[11:12:53] *** nyco shows as "online"
[11:13:08] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[11:13:14] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[11:14:08] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[11:14:09] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[11:14:55] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[11:15:22] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[11:15:44] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:15:47] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[11:16:46] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:16:56] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[11:16:57] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Devon"
[11:20:24] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:23:16] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:23:40] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[11:23:40] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[11:26:23] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[11:28:13] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:32:46] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[11:33:12] *** nyco shows as "online"
[11:34:55] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[11:35:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:38:13] *** Flow shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:40:51] *** Guus has left the room
[11:40:56] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:41:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:42:12] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[11:42:13] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[11:47:47] *** daniel has left the room
[11:48:28] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:50:56] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:53:09] *** nyco shows as "online"
[11:53:33] *** daniel has joined the room
[11:54:15] *** Flow shows as "online"
[11:55:24] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[11:55:55] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[11:58:31] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[11:58:31] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[11:59:59] *** daniel has left the room
[12:03:12] *** vurpo has left the room
[12:03:14] *** vurpo has joined the room
[12:03:34] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[12:03:39] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[12:04:59] *** daniel has joined the room
[12:05:45] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:06:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:08:12] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:08:13] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[12:10:21] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:11:30] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:12:21] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:12:36] *** Martin has left the room
[12:12:37] *** Martin has joined the room
[12:13:46] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:14:48] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:15:26] *** Alex shows as "online"
[12:15:41] *** blabla shows as "online"
[12:15:45] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:16:15] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:18:27] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:18:35] *** Alex shows as "online"
[12:20:37] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:20:37] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:21:35] *** blabla has left the room
[12:22:23] *** bjc shows as "online"
[12:25:28] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[12:26:07] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:27:07] *** bjc has left the room
[12:28:17] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:28:39] *** bjc has joined the room
[12:28:41] *** bjc shows as "online"
[12:31:40] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:31:41] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[12:31:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:33:18] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[12:33:18] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[12:35:15] *** Flow shows as "online"
[12:38:08] *** nyco shows as "online"
[12:39:17] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[12:39:17] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[12:39:19] *** Valerian has left the room
[12:40:49] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:40:50] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:41:37] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:41:38] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[12:42:02] *** kaboom shows as "online"
[12:42:35] *** Martin has left the room
[12:42:39] *** Martin has joined the room
[12:44:41] *** Guus has left the room
[12:45:08] *** Guus shows as "online"
[12:46:38] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:46:39] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:47:41] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:47:42] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[12:50:13] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:51:01] *** kalkin has left the room
[12:51:44] *** kalkin has joined the room
[12:52:41] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:52:41] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:53:41] <nyco> OH LOOK...
on Hacker News: the URL may contain news.ycombinator.com and then /newest
please upvote the meetup entry quickly (before it goes away) if you want/can
and then comment, still if you want
[12:54:26] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[12:54:39] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[12:54:44] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[12:55:29] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[12:55:30] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[12:56:45] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[12:56:49] *** vurpo shows as "online"
[12:57:54] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:58:50] *** Valerian has joined the room
[12:59:01] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[12:59:08] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[12:59:28] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[12:59:34] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[12:59:51] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[12:59:57] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[13:00:14] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[13:00:20] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[13:00:26] <intosi> nyco: an actual url to the HN article in question might be a few orders of magnitude more efficient...
[13:00:45] <intosi> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13948527 for instance, that would've helped.
[13:00:48] *** Lance has joined the room
[13:01:13] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:02:10] <Zash> Wasn't the theory that they count votes less if you go there directly?
[13:02:21] <nyco> NOOOOOO
[13:02:31] <nyco> it has the actual opposite effect!
[13:02:48] <Ge0rG> Less is more. War is peace.
[13:02:49] <nyco> efficient for what? so that you click?
[13:03:26] <Ge0rG> we are already identified by HN as being part of the "xmpp trolls" cluster.
[13:03:40] <Zash> Ignorance is bliss
[13:03:46] <Guus> I am shocked.
[13:03:53] <jonasw> you broke the pattern
[13:04:00] <nyco> clicking on the URL in a short amount of time by a few people actually decreases the scoring
thus it will be less visible, and visible for a shorter period of time
[13:04:33] <Ge0rG> nyco: by any people or just by logged-in HN members?
[13:04:41] <Guus> so, here's a tought: perhaps we shouldn't try to affect the ranking at all, and let the actual algorithm do its thing? :)
[13:04:57] <Ge0rG> Guus: no, we need a blackhat SEO to make XMPP more prominent.
[13:05:09] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:05:29] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:06:02] <nyco> Ge0rG, both
[13:06:27] <nyco> Guus, exactly, so say to people how they can reach it, do not push the actual URL
[13:06:30] <jonasw> nyco: so by placing a ycombinator-link to, for example, slashdot, I can kill it?
[13:06:41] <jonasw> that sounds like fun
[13:06:51] <nyco> yes
[13:07:06] <jonasw> how broken is that?
[13:07:08] <nyco> Reddit has that as well, and so forth with Product Hunt, etc.
[13:07:27] <jonasw> and that are probably the same people who complain about facebooks filtering
[13:07:28] <nyco> no, no, nooo, it is NOT broken, it is actually FIXING the click shemas!
[13:07:45] <jonasw> no, I don’t get why clicking a link without interacting with the voting would have any effect
[13:07:50] <jonasw> either positive or negative
[13:07:53] <jonasw> that’s just broken
[13:07:53] <nyco> an enterprise asks all the employees to click "+" in a URL... that's a common practice, that must be fought
[13:08:00] <jonasw> that’s a different story, I agree
[13:08:08] <jonasw> but if I don’t vote, I think my click on the link should not have any influence
[13:08:14] <Guus> awesome! and you just told us to go click somewhere :D
[13:08:30] <jonasw> +1 Guus
[13:08:38] <nyco> Guus, not "told", asked politely... and I have not given the direct URL, that's the point
[13:08:44] <Ge0rG> "go click yourself!"
[13:08:46] <nyco> jonasw, -1
[13:08:49] <jonasw> nyco: only to trick the system
[13:08:50] <Guus> potatoes potatoes :D
[13:08:59] <jonasw> you would’ve given the URL if it wouldn’t affect our score, right?
[13:09:04] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:09:18] <jonasw> Ge0rG: click the button?
[13:09:19] <nyco> jonasw, no, that's a "if you want/can"
[13:09:30] <nyco> jonasw, that was not a "do that"
[13:09:39] *** waqas has joined the room
[13:09:47] <jonasw> I don’t feel that makes a huge difference
[13:09:52] <jonasw> but then again, I’m allergic to viral marketing
[13:09:56] <nyco> that is a little polite push, not a massive fraud
[13:10:12] <Guus> nyco: we're not discussing the manner in which the question is asked, but the fact that it's an artificial attempt to influence a score.
[13:10:13] <nyco> jonasw, it is not about what you feel, it is about the algo behind
[13:10:16] <jonasw> "Die Grenzen sind fließend.", as we say in germany
[13:10:26] <nyco> jonasw, which means?
[13:10:34] <jonasw> "the line is blurry", probably
[13:10:41] <Guus> fluent borders
[13:10:41] <Guus> ?
[13:10:47] <Guus> ah, that makes more sense :)
[13:10:48] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:10:48] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:11:05] <nyco> wow guys... we cannot win...
[13:11:28] <Guus> I don't consider myself to be in a competition
[13:11:36] <Guus> <-- most aweful marketing person *ever*
[13:11:38] <nyco> sure, but the other guys will win
[13:11:42] <jonasw> oh, I am.
[13:11:45] <nyco> Guus, that's the point
[13:12:03] <nyco> we massively lack marketing at the XSF
[13:12:11] <jonasw> nyco: I agree that some marketing is important. I disagree with manipulating scores.
[13:12:25] <nyco> so don't slow it down when we attempt to fix a little the awfulll situation that we are in
[13:12:53] <jonasw> I’d like to know what kind of marketing daniel did to make Conversations fly actually.
[13:12:59] <nyco> a little openness guys...
[13:13:15] <jonasw> oh, waqas, you’re around. do you have a minute to take a look at XEP-0390? https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0390.html
[13:13:29] <nyco> Conversations does not fly, it has 10 to 50k downloads on Play Store
[13:13:37] <Guus> yeah, again - i'm not in an aweful situation. I get to do cool stuff - I could not care less if it's used by 10 or 10,000 people.
[13:13:43] <nyco> also he gets out of the building quite often: Twitter, blog posts, events/slides
[13:13:45] <jonasw> nyco: that’s pretty flying
[13:13:50] <Guus> but hey, I won't stop anyone from promoting XMPP either :)
[13:14:08] <nyco> jonasw, WhatsApp and FB Messenger are above a billion, a billion
[13:14:16] <jonasw> I know
[13:14:25] <jonasw> but the network effect isn’t linear either
[13:14:33] *** vurpo has left the room
[13:14:35] <Guus> I think that Daniel primarily build a pretty good client.
[13:14:36] <nyco> at 50k you don't get any network effect
[13:14:52] <Guus> which made him stand out.
[13:14:53] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:14:59] <jonasw> promotion won’t fix anything unless we can provide people with software which doesn’t suck though
[13:15:00] <nyco> 5 years ago you could reach critical mass at 1 million, now it is rather several millions
[13:15:24] <nyco> jonasw, That. Let's do that now.
[13:15:29] <jonasw> I’m on it!
[13:15:41] <Ge0rG> I have a paid amateur radio app on Play Store that's also in the 10k-50k bin. It's the #1 app for its use case though, and people know it.
[13:15:49] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:15:56] <jonasw> I just ditched a class to be able to do some polishing on my client before I hand it in to Prototype Fund. which will also get publicity if it’s accepted.
[13:16:14] <jonasw> Ge0rG: you also have a dice app I found out. I actually have that installed :D
[13:17:04] *** Lance has left the room
[13:17:08] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:17:09] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[13:19:10] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:20:06] <Ge0rG> jonasw: did you have it installed before you knew me?
[13:20:09] <jonasw> ye
[13:20:10] <jonasw> *yes
[13:20:25] <Ge0rG> yay! I'm famous!
[13:20:41] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:21:43] <Ge0rG> jonasw: I only wrote that app because there was a bunch of dice apps before, and they all sucked.
[13:21:51] <jonasw> that’s the best reason for writing an app
[13:21:58] <Guus> perhaps we should do that for XMPP clients.
[13:22:05] <jonasw> I’m on it.
[13:22:14] <Ge0rG> I usually need a dice app because I forgot my dice, and not because I want to shake my phone like crazy.
[13:22:20] <jonasw> when I’m not busy with website PRs :-)
[13:22:26] <Guus> (obligatory xkcd reference in 3, 2, 1 ...)
[13:22:29] <jonasw> Ge0rG: seriously?
[13:22:33] <Ge0rG> Guus: this is also why I got involved with yaxim... back in 2009
[13:22:45] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[13:22:45] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[13:22:48] <Ge0rG> jonasw: yeah.
[13:23:12] <jonasw> oh-kay, so do those people also write SMS by moving their phone like a pen?
[13:23:35] *** daniel has left the room
[13:24:00] <Guus> presumably, yes. If you can write them the app to do that.
[13:25:15] <Ge0rG> I'm sure there is a market for that.
[13:25:28] <jonasw> s/sure/afraid/
[13:25:29] <Ge0rG> Afer all, ICQ got famous for using a typewriter click sound on each key press
[13:25:40] <jonasw> there are terminal apps which do the same
[13:28:11] *** daniel has joined the room
[13:29:09] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[13:29:09] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[13:30:41] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:31:01] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:31:02] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:32:55] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:33:05] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:36:48] *** efrit has joined the room
[13:37:56] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[13:37:56] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:39:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:39:26] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:39:27] *** Zash shows as "online"
[13:40:25] *** mhterres shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[13:40:26] *** mhterres shows as "online"
[13:41:40] *** Guus has left the room
[13:42:17] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:44:20] *** Guus has left the room
[13:44:49] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:48:47] <waqas> jonasw: I'm skimming through XEP-0390, it seems sensible at first glance
[13:48:59] <jonasw> thanks for taking a look!
[13:50:28] <waqas> jonasw: I'll later try to implement this in simple code, which would help think through any edge cases
[13:50:48] <jonasw> that’d be awesome
[13:51:11] *** bra shows as "online"
[13:52:52] *** kaboom has left the room
[13:53:10] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:53:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:59:29] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[13:59:36] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[14:01:02] *** lovetox has joined the room
[14:03:12] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[14:03:35] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[14:05:57] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[14:06:01] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[14:17:42] *** Alex has left the room
[14:17:51] *** Alex has joined the room
[14:18:37] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[14:19:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[14:19:51] *** kaboom shows as "online"
[14:19:52] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:22:41] *** kaboom has left the room
[14:24:16] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:24:26] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[14:25:24] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:25:38] <Guus> "if I didn't find anything I don't think that would be enough to count as evidence that problems don't exist." <-- I think Kev was just dethroned as the king of double negatives :)
[14:26:59] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:27:58] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[14:28:26] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:28:28] <jonasw> I fail to parse that
[14:28:30] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:28:58] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[14:28:59] <Zash> I haven't had enough coffee yet to even try
[14:29:15] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:30:10] *** Alex shows as "online"
[14:31:05] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[14:31:25] <intosi> Don't see anything wrong with that sentence.
[14:32:18] <jonasw> my parsing suggests to add a ", but" behind "anything" to make it readable
[14:32:21] *** sonny has joined the room
[14:33:16] <Holger> I don't think I would say that I don't see anything wrong with that sentence, but that doesn't mean any problems exist in it.
[14:33:40] <Zash> "I have only proved the sentence correct, I have not tested it"
[14:33:53] <Holger> Does it compile?
[14:34:12] <Zash> EMORECAFFEINE
[14:36:43] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:37:28] *** kaboom shows as "online"
[14:38:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:41:00] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:41:08] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:41:29] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[14:41:36] *** nicolas.verite has left the room
[14:42:33] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:42:37] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:42:42] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[14:42:45] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Devon"
[14:42:48] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Devon"
[14:44:42] *** Alex has left the room
[14:46:02] *** sonny has joined the room
[14:47:08] <nyco> hey, do we have stats/traffic numbers on the xmpp.org website?
[14:51:07] <Guus> I'm not seeing an obvious tracker in the source of the pages (like google analytics). Unsure if we generate statistics from the access logs.
[14:52:13] <Zash> Nothing says "Privacy-focused" like Google Analytics
[14:53:10] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[14:53:35] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[14:53:46] <Guus> Nothing says "Privacy-focused".
[14:53:56] <Guus> sorry. You did. :)
[14:54:01] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[14:54:03] <Zash> and https://xmpp.org/
[14:54:29] <Guus> I sit corrected.
[14:55:11] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:55:22] *** bra shows as "online"
[14:55:26] <jonasw> Zash: what about embedding ajax.googleapis.com? :-)
[14:56:42] *** Alex has left the room
[14:57:19] *** vurpo shows as "online"
[14:57:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:57:48] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[14:58:00] *** Yagiza shows as "xa" and his status message is "Ofuro ni haitte imasu (купаюсь)"
[14:59:57] <jonasw> Zash: is https://prosody.im/chat/ that chat.tar.gz thing?
[15:00:02] <Zash> yes
[15:00:10] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[15:00:36] <jonasw> Zash: any comments on https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/101 ?
[15:02:05] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:02:45] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:02:48] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:02:53] <Zash> I'm still sad that Candy isn't as maintained as it should be
[15:03:46] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:04:52] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:05:36] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[15:06:39] <SamWhited> I tried the Candy demo again recently, it just said "Connecting" forever so I gave up
[15:06:49] <SamWhited> (where "recently" == "just now")
[15:07:10] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:07:13] <Guus> We run Candy at www.igniterealtime.org/support/group_chat.jsp
[15:07:43] <Zash> SamWhited: Seen mod_candy?
[15:07:45] <Guus> It has quircks, but it's usable.
[15:08:04] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:08:09] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:08:14] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:08:18] <SamWhited> nicknames seem to be fixed anyways
[15:08:58] <Zash> Has the issue been fixed where if I join as both "Zash" and "zash", one gets ignored?
[15:09:26] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:09:26] <SamWhited> "username already in use"
[15:09:27] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[15:09:28] <Ge0rG> there is an SPA version of Converse.js at https://github.com/jcbrand/inverse.js which is even-more-beta
[15:09:56] <Guus> unsure - there are many oddities. One of my biggest gripes with Candy is that it dies (without letting the user know) on any uncaught error.
[15:09:57] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:10:06] <Guus> which gives people the impression that no-one is responding.
[15:10:19] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:11:19] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:11:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:12:30] *** Flow shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:13:42] <waqas> My main gripe with Candy were the XHTML-IM security issues…
[15:13:44] *** vurpo has left the room
[15:14:07] <Guus> waqas: I disabled XHTML-IM in our instance - it introduces instability
[15:14:13] <waqas> Good
[15:14:21] <Guus> so those might still be in there
[15:14:31] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:14:31] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:15:56] <SamWhited> they do appear to be escaping things properly and not sticking stuff in attributes now at least; do they support XHTML-IM? Regardless of how good things are otherwise, as far as I'm concerned that is a security risk in and of itself.
[15:16:19] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:16:19] <Guus> they support it, but you can disable the support
[15:16:19] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:16:21] *** Flow shows as "online"
[15:16:27] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:16:27] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[15:16:39] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:17:31] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[15:17:31] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[15:17:40] <Guus> and/or not enable it - I'm not sure anymore, it was a long time ago
[15:17:42] *** bjc has left the room
[15:17:58] <Ge0rG> What's the use case we are talking about? single-page anonymous access to a MUC?
[15:18:16] <SamWhited> Yup
[15:19:46] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[15:20:47] <Ge0rG> then maybe prosody's chat is the way to go, with some fancy CSS around it
[15:20:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:21:15] <Ge0rG> jonasw: buggy has a question mark behind it, mainly because it's just a tarball on a web page that hasn't been touched in years
[15:22:07] <waqas> Mainly because nothing has really changed in terms of requirements
[15:22:16] *** blabla has joined the room
[15:22:17] <SamWhited> Candy seems okay now (at least, the way I think I got it last time has been fixed), but I have gotten it to execute arbitrary JS in the past. Prosody's web chat is literally the only one that I don't think I've been able to inject or otherwise break too badly.
[15:22:34] <SamWhited> only one out of the ones I've tried, obviously.
[15:22:53] <waqas> SamWhited: Same. And I'd tried many, including ones without xhtml-im and desktop clients...
[15:23:03] <SamWhited> *nods*
[15:23:12] <Zash> I'm not sure the tarball reflects what is actually used either
[15:23:19] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:23:19] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:23:28] *** bjc has joined the room
[15:23:28] *** bjc shows as "online"
[15:23:59] <SamWhited> It's fairly easy to style too; eg. https://muc.mellium.im/ for a project that doesn't actually exist that I will launch one day.
[15:24:04] <Guus> for the record: i think you guys are overly cautious. I'd rather go with a well maintained project than a dormant one.
[15:24:21] <Guus> but, if we can pick any one client, i'm happy to go with that.
[15:24:43] <SamWhited> I'd rather go with simple and low footprint for attack over anything else; but maintained would be nice too.
[15:25:12] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:25:12] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[15:25:16] <Ge0rG> if the prosody devs would make it a real project, with an issue tracker etc, it would instantly lift off
[15:25:25] <Guus> I think that any client has a decent amount of complexity, and vectors of attack - perhaps not that one that we test for now, but eventually, something will be found.
[15:25:36] <Ge0rG> as it is, one could get the impression it is an unmaintained student project that was dropped on a web page a decade ago
[15:25:37] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: Who would maintain it in that case?
[15:25:47] <waqas> I'm curious how much demand there is
[15:26:03] <Zash> Ge0rG: Someone did that, then added tons of broken features and then forgot all about it.
[15:26:46] <waqas> Yeah, I think the main concern would be scope creep. It was designed to be one simple thing: provide users with chatrooms anonymously. Stuff like admin-tools, etc were out of scope.
[15:27:28] <Ge0rG> I'm okay with the feature scope, but I need to think of it like an admin: if I install it onto my machine, I need some way to update it, monitor for CVEs etc.
[15:27:34] <Ge0rG> As it is now, it doesn't even have a name
[15:27:47] <Zash> "Chat"
[15:27:58] <Zash> Have you noticed how our issue tracker is called issue tracker?
[15:28:02] <Ge0rG> Zash: "chat.tar.gz" rather?
[15:28:27] <SamWhited> "chat tarball" — good name, I like it!
[15:28:31] <Ge0rG> jonasw> Zash: is https://prosody.im/chat/ that chat.tar.gz thing?
[15:28:38] <Ge0rG> let's call it "that chat.tar.gz thing"
[15:28:44] <Zash> :D
[15:28:47] <jonasw> TCTGZT
[15:28:49] <jonasw> catchy
[15:29:04] <Guus> Chatty McChatface, please.
[15:29:06] <SamWhited> The Client Formerly Known as chat.tar.gz
[15:29:15] <waqas> chat tarball… chatball.. magic chatball! It's perfect!
[15:29:27] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[15:29:30] <Ge0rG> Guus: +1
[15:29:41] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:32:31] *** Yagiza has left the room
[15:32:52] <Guus> so... after a year and a half, let's pick a webchat client.
[15:33:06] <Guus> who can create a PR that introduced Chatty McChatface?
[15:33:18] <Guus> introduces*
[15:33:29] <jonasw> *That Chat.tar.gz Thing
[15:33:36] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[15:34:04] <Zash> Watch out, it's that chat.tar.gz thing!
[15:36:01] <Guus> ... anyone?
[15:36:13] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:36:13] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:37:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:38:30] <MattJ> Ge0rG, in your post about Chatball (which I hadn't seen before) maybe mention mod_muc_ban_ip in the Prosody config part as a side note
[15:39:11] <Ge0rG> MattJ: I'm not sure what I should say about mod_muc_ban_ip in there
[15:39:28] <MattJ> Guus, I guess I could
[15:39:45] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[15:39:45] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[15:39:48] <Guus> Thanks mattJ!
[15:40:15] <Guus> for reference, we've been tracking the effort in https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/101
[15:44:25] <MattJ> BOSH endpoint?
[15:44:33] <Zash> or WEBSOCKETS
[15:44:39] <MattJ> I don't think there's currently one on xmpp.org, unless I'm mistaken
[15:45:11] <MattJ> I possibly still have SSH access there so I could set it up
[15:45:45] <Zash> MattJ: Can I convince you to get rid of mod_muc_log_http?
[15:45:53] <MattJ> and replace with?
[15:45:58] <Zash> mod_http_muc_log :)
[15:45:59] <Guus> MattJ, could you arrange that with the powers-that-be in the infra team (Kev, Intosi, Tobias, others?)
[15:46:51] <MattJ> Unless I was quietly kicked out, I think I'm still a (dormant) member of iteam :)
[15:47:02] <MattJ> Haven't worked on it for at least a year though, I reckon
[15:47:03] <Guus> Could you arrange that with yourself then? :)
[15:47:22] <MattJ> I'll do whatever is necessary to make the web chat work, and I won't stop till I'm done!
[15:47:32] <MattJ> But first, meetings...
[15:47:41] <intosi> Close shave.
[15:48:09] <SamWhited> that reminds me, I need to go to the barber.
[15:49:27] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[15:54:10] *** jubalh has joined the room
[15:55:56] <jonasw> any opinions on that one? https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/302
I didn’t even know that page existed…
[15:57:39] <Ge0rG> am I the only one who can't click on the menu items on xmpp.org?
[15:57:54] *** Valerian has left the room
[15:57:56] <jonasw> worksforme, but I have 1st party JS enabled
[15:58:00] <SamWhited> you're not the only one; anytime menus are made with javascript bad things happen.
[15:58:12] <jonasw> it also works without though
[15:58:32] <Flow> jonasw: hmm 100k users
[15:58:51] <Zash> Doesn't jabber.org have on the order of 1M users?
[15:58:58] <Ge0rG> I do have JS enabled, the menups properly pop up and show the link, but clicking only makes the menu collapse, on Chromium 57
[15:59:13] <Guus> jonasw: I was somewhat unsure of that one too. I can't find any references to it on wikipedia (english nor italian)
[15:59:13] <jonasw> Ge0rG: all items or only specific ones?
[15:59:25] <Guus> not sure if that proves anything.
[15:59:38] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:59:40] <Ge0rG> jonasw: all items. I can click on the menu itself, and then click through from that category page
[15:59:40] <SamWhited> Maybe the number of users column should go away since it's a thing that will change and probably hard to verify anyways?
[15:59:57] *** Lance has joined the room
[15:59:58] *** Lance shows as "online"
[16:00:07] <Zash> Maybe the page should die in a fire before it becomes used for marketing
[16:00:09] <Guus> SamWhited, sure.
[16:00:09] *** mhterres has left the room
[16:00:13] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[16:00:13] *** arc shows as "online"
[16:00:16] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:00:17] <Guus> Zash, sure.
[16:00:27] <Flow> what Zash said
[16:00:49] <Zash> Like how XEP support pages usually end up
[16:01:09] <Guus> Guys - make it so.
[16:01:13] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[16:01:13] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[16:01:54] *** Martin shows as "online"
[16:01:55] *** Martin shows as "online"
[16:02:34] <jonasw> remember to check for links to that page before burninating it
[16:02:51] <jonasw> I’m not available for any website patches anymore today, EBUSY
[16:03:32] *** bjc shows as "away"
[16:04:14] *** bjc shows as "online"
[16:05:20] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:05:58] <Guus> (perhaps dropping the table instead of the entire page would be a good compromise)
[16:07:17] <Zash> chatme is on the xmpp.net list already, so duplicating it on that page seems weird to me
[16:13:29] *** bra shows as "online"
[16:13:29] *** jubalh has left the room
[16:14:13] <Ge0rG> Maybe that page should only list XMPP-based services that are not XMPP servers?
[16:14:23] <Ge0rG> but I'm fine with killing it as well
[16:15:05] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[16:15:06] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Devon"
[16:15:31] <jonasw> it advertises WhatsApp!. kill it with fiiiiireeeeee. (well, okay, it may make people think "uh, whatsapp uses XMPP, maybe it isn’t *that* bad)
[16:15:32] <Zash> A clearly defined purpose / scope would be good
[16:16:29] <Ge0rG> jonasw: "it isn’t *that* bad" - WhatsApp or XMPP? :P
[16:16:39] <jonasw> Ge0rG: your choice
[16:16:48] <Zash> But HN says that WA is no longer XMPP
[16:17:04] *** Lance has left the room
[16:17:14] <Ge0rG> jonasw: I take "neither".
[16:17:27] <dwd> Zash, It hasn't been in ages, though. Question is whether it's still fundamentally based on XMPP or not.
[16:18:32] <Zash> As in, "they switched to Signal Protocol", which doesn't even make sense
[16:18:52] <Zash> I haven't seen any credible proof that it's not still "FunXMPP"
[16:20:04] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:20:59] <jonasw> I don’t care either.
[16:30:05] *** winfried shows as "online"
[16:32:50] *** sonny has joined the room
[16:34:39] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[16:34:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de has joined the room
[16:35:53] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Devon"
[16:36:03] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Devon"
[16:36:06] *** Guus has left the room
[16:36:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:38:46] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[16:39:07] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Tadaima (Я вернулсо)!"
[16:43:35] *** Martin has left the room
[16:43:35] *** Martin has joined the room
[16:44:03] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:45:24] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[16:54:03] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:54:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:54:31] *** ralphm has left the room
[16:55:24] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[16:56:24] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[16:57:09] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[16:57:09] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[16:57:11] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[16:57:11] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[16:58:49] *** Lance has joined the room
[16:58:50] *** Lance shows as "online"
[16:59:44] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[16:59:44] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[16:59:55] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:07:00] *** blabla has joined the room
[17:07:20] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:07:20] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:08:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:08:36] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:08:53] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:08:53] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[17:10:38] *** nicolas.verite has joined the room
[17:11:45] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:11:45] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:15:10] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:15:10] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:16:32] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:16:32] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:18:42] *** suzyo has joined the room
[17:21:39] *** suzyo has left the room
[17:22:07] *** jonasw shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:22:07] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[17:22:23] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:22:38] *** sonny has left the room
[17:23:00] *** nyconyco has joined the room
[17:23:36] *** Guus has left the room
[17:24:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:25:07] *** nyconyco has left the room
[17:25:55] *** jonasw has left the room
[17:26:18] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:26:18] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[17:31:28] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:31:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:31:39] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:31:39] *** arc shows as "online"
[17:32:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:32:21] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:32:32] *** nyco shows as "online"
[17:32:59] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:35:19] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[17:35:44] *** Guus has left the room
[17:36:03] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:36:03] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:36:03] *** blipp has left the room
[17:36:11] *** blipp has joined the room
[17:36:26] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:40:23] *** winfried shows as "away"
[17:41:55] *** bjc shows as "away"
[17:42:46] *** Valerian has joined the room
[17:43:44] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:43:44] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:44:23] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:44:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:45:08] *** bjc shows as "online"
[17:47:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:47:32] *** Valerian has left the room
[17:47:33] *** Valerian has joined the room
[17:48:32] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:48:32] *** arc shows as "online"
[17:48:46] *** Valerian has left the room
[17:48:47] *** Valerian has joined the room
[17:49:24] *** bra shows as "online"
[17:49:42] *** daniel has left the room
[17:49:51] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:49:56] *** Martin has left the room
[17:52:36] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[17:53:07] *** nyco shows as "online"
[17:55:53] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:57:30] *** Lance shows as "away"
[17:59:21] <fippo> https://twitter.com/backlon/status/845327874928238593 -- did i miss the obituary notice?
[17:59:43] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:00:14] *** Valerian has left the room
[18:00:14] *** Valerian has joined the room
[18:01:35] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:02:07] <Zash> fippo: No, you've forgotten about it because it was soooo long ago
[18:02:24] <Zash> https://q.zash.se/86ed5344ab0a.txt .. seems Facebooks XMPP isn't entirely killed yet either
[18:04:43] <fippo> https://twitter.com/markb/status/845328381117956097 ... hrm... brb, I need to ask someone about this...
[18:05:13] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:10:23] *** bjc shows as "away"
[18:10:29] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:13:02] *** Lance shows as "online"
[18:15:13] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:16:57] *** Guus has left the room
[18:17:18] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:20:29] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:21:19] *** xnyhps has left the room
[18:22:29] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:22:31] *** bjc shows as "online"
[18:23:39] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:23:39] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:25:10] *** Valerian has left the room
[18:29:06] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:29:06] *** arc shows as "online"
[18:29:53] *** Guus has left the room
[18:30:18] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:31:04] *** efrit has joined the room
[18:33:20] *** SamWhited has left the room
[18:33:20] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[18:34:10] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[18:36:55] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:36:56] *** blabla has joined the room
[18:37:35] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[18:37:36] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Devon"
[18:38:00] *** ralphm has left the room
[18:45:23] *** daniel has left the room
[18:48:41] *** nyco shows as "online"
[18:48:54] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:48:54] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:49:25] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:49:25] *** arc shows as "online"
[18:51:45] *** SamWhited has left the room
[18:51:57] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[18:53:00] *** Lance has left the room
[18:54:46] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:54:46] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:55:35] <lovetox> i need help, i tried to read RFC6121
[18:55:38] <lovetox> about IQ stanzas
[18:56:46] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[18:56:46] *** arc shows as "online"
[18:56:49] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:56:49] <lovetox> when using in band bytestream
[18:57:00] <lovetox> can it make sense to adress the stanzas to a barejid?
[18:57:33] <lovetox> where does the server route such an iq stanza
[18:57:46] <lovetox> im terrible with the whole filetransfer thing
[18:58:17] *** nyco shows as "online"
[18:58:35] <fippo> that doesn't make sense. you need to figure out the full jid of someone before sending them a file
[18:58:48] <lovetox> thats what i thought
[18:59:35] <lovetox> the xep also has only examples with full jid, but it is never mentioned explicitly that stanzas have to be adressed to full jids
[18:59:35] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:59:40] <lovetox> maybe because its obvious
[19:01:36] <Zash> https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc6121.html#rules-localpart-barejid
[19:02:01] <Zash> > For an IQ stanza, the server itself MUST reply on behalf of the user with either an IQ result or an IQ error, and MUST NOT deliver the IQ stanza to any of the user's available resources.
[19:03:46] <lovetox> so in an ibb there can never be a iq involved that is not adressed to a fulljid
[19:05:22] *** Valerian has joined the room
[19:05:28] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Devon"
[19:05:28] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Devon"
[19:05:34] <Zash> In theory you could send the data in messages, but don't do that.
[19:05:49] <lovetox> no gajim does not do that
[19:08:13] *** nyco shows as "online"
[19:09:22] <Zash> Okay?
[19:09:40] <Zash> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0047.html#message
[19:11:53] *** Valerian has left the room
[19:13:18] *** uc has left the room
[19:14:39] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[19:14:39] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[19:15:03] *** nyco shows as "online"
[19:17:03] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[19:17:03] *** arc shows as "online"
[19:19:31] *** kaboom has left the room
[19:22:40] *** kaboom shows as "online"
[19:22:45] *** kaboom has left the room
[19:22:52] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[19:22:59] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[19:22:59] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[19:27:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:33:51] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[19:34:56] *** nyco has left the room
[19:35:00] *** nyco shows as "online"
[19:38:41] <lovetox> thanks zash, but we thats not an issue, gajim does not use messages for ibb
[19:39:14] <Zash> I don't understand
[19:39:43] <Zash> I'm saying that the XEP says you can if you really want.
[19:39:53] <lovetox> my question was about IQ stanzas and ibb, you posting of the rfc was the help i needed
[19:43:47] *** Valerian has joined the room
[19:45:04] *** nyco shows as "online"
[19:46:53] *** kaboom shows as "online"
[19:47:08] *** kaboom has left the room
[19:49:17] *** nyco has left the room
[19:50:38] *** kaboom shows as "online"
[19:50:44] *** kaboom has left the room
[19:52:17] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[19:52:17] *** arc shows as "online"
[19:55:01] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:55:04] *** Valerian has left the room
[19:58:06] *** nyco shows as "online"
[20:00:14] *** lovetox has left the room
[20:01:39] *** vurpo has left the room
[20:01:41] *** vurpo has joined the room
[20:02:14] *** lovetox has joined the room
[20:02:35] *** vurpo has left the room
[20:02:37] *** vurpo has joined the room
[20:08:02] *** Valerian has joined the room
[20:08:03] *** vurpo has left the room
[20:08:19] *** vurpo has joined the room
[20:10:32] *** bjc shows as "away"
[20:10:34] *** bjc shows as "online"
[20:11:38] *** Valerian has left the room
[20:11:38] *** Valerian has joined the room
[20:14:56] *** Guus has left the room
[20:15:34] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:17:01] *** nyco has left the room
[20:23:10] *** nyco shows as "online"
[20:25:10] *** Valerian has left the room
[20:25:10] *** Valerian has joined the room
[20:25:43] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:25:43] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:31:32] *** Valerian has left the room
[20:31:43] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:31:44] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:32:23] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[20:32:23] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[20:33:07] *** nyco shows as "online"
[20:33:16] *** winfried shows as "online"
[20:35:18] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:35:18] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:42:04] *** sonny has left the room
[20:43:45] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:43:45] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:43:58] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[20:45:27] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:46:48] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[20:47:32] *** sonny has joined the room
[20:47:47] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:48:47] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:48:47] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:51:33] *** kalkin has left the room
[20:54:04] *** nyco shows as "online"
[21:03:38] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:03:38] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:03:57] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[21:04:27] *** kalkin has joined the room
[21:05:15] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:05:15] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:09:28] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:09:28] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:11:14] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:11:14] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:14:45] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:14:45] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:17:30] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[21:18:23] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:18:23] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:19:50] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:19:50] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:21:32] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:21:32] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:22:06] *** winfried shows as "online"
[21:22:34] *** sonny has joined the room
[21:23:36] *** winfried has left the room
[21:23:56] *** blipp has left the room
[21:24:04] *** blipp has joined the room
[21:27:34] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:27:34] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:29:05] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:29:05] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:29:21] *** goffi has left the room
[21:29:40] *** SamWhited has left the room
[21:31:00] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:31:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:34:22] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:34:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:37:32] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[21:37:32] *** arc shows as "online"
[21:39:23] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:39:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:44:25] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:44:25] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:46:49] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:46:49] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:49:27] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:49:27] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:50:10] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:50:10] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:54:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:54:29] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[21:54:46] *** kalkin has left the room
[21:55:33] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:55:33] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:56:35] *** bjc has left the room
[22:01:35] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:01:35] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:03:04] *** nyco has left the room
[22:03:09] *** nyco shows as "online"
[22:06:37] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:06:37] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:08:22] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:11:39] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:11:39] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:13:10] *** nyco shows as "online"
[22:16:41] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:16:41] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:18:23] *** nyco has left the room
[22:18:35] *** daniel has joined the room
[22:23:07] *** nyco shows as "online"
[22:23:36] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:23:36] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:28:37] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:28:37] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:29:13] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:31:54] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:31:54] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[22:33:38] *** nyco shows as "online"
[22:33:39] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:33:39] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:35:08] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:35:08] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:36:12] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:38:41] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:38:41] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:39:03] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:39:03] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:39:13] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:43:43] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:43:43] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:45:06] *** Guus has left the room
[22:45:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:46:00] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:48:08] *** nyco shows as "online"
[22:48:43] *** bjc has joined the room
[22:48:44] *** bjc shows as "online"
[22:51:32] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:51:38] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:53:44] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:53:44] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[22:56:21] <arc> official announcement is out, gtalk will be officially killed off this summer
[22:59:55] *** ralphm has left the room
[23:01:22] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:01:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:03:36] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:04:13] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[23:04:13] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[23:04:20] *** sonny has joined the room
[23:07:11] *** lovetox has left the room
[23:13:25] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:15:23] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:15:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:16:15] *** sonny has joined the room
[23:16:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:17:06] *** ralphm has left the room
[23:20:42] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:20:42] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:21:00] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:21:16] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:21:16] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:26:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:26:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:29:50] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[23:29:51] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[23:31:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:31:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:34:49] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:34:49] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:35:31] *** arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:35:31] *** arc shows as "online"
[23:36:21] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:36:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:36:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:40:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[23:41:23] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:41:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:42:28] *** SamWhited has left the room
[23:43:41] *** jere has joined the room
[23:46:02] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:46:48] *** Zash shows as "online"
[23:46:59] *** Zash shows as "away"
[23:47:02] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:48:42] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:48:42] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"
[23:50:08] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:50:08] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:51:53] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:52:32] <moparisthebest> arc: it's more akin to a merciful finishing off isn't it? It's better than staying running as broken as it is and giving xmpp a bad name
[23:54:26] <MattJ> Most people think it's already turned off
[23:56:06] *** Zash shows as "online"
[23:57:45] *** Guus has left the room
[23:58:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:58:19] *** Zash has left the room
[23:58:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:59:27] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:59:27] *** Ge0rG shows as "away" and his status message is "detached"