Monday, September 18, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:36:32] <emxp> Zash: no
[07:37:03] <emxp> at least not in countries who sort trash
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[07:55:38] <Guus> oh, we do a lot of software listing here: https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview.html. Wasn't aware of that.
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[07:56:19] <Guus> Not sure if this works well with the software listing we do under the 'software' menu
[07:56:32] <Guus> also not sure if we should change it, and if so, how.
[07:57:59] <jonasw> we can do more magic like I did for the team pages, but I feel a bit bad about what I did there already
[07:58:33] <jonasw> Guus, can you take a look from where https://xmpp.org/extensions/xmpp.css comes and make sure it comes from within the container? (or delegate to someone who knows how to in iteam)
[07:58:36] <Guus> not sure if we should do that here, but why did you feel bad about the tema stuff?
[07:58:48] <jonasw> Guus, because I did a | replace(...) on markup
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[08:00:33] <Guus> jonasw: any reason to think that the xmpp.css does not compe from the extensions container?
[08:01:37] <Guus> can't immediately find rewrite rules that would cause it to serve from anywhere else
[08:02:14] <jonasw> it has been updated in the docker
[08:02:34] <jonasw> cf. https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/511
[08:03:09] <Guus> dockerhub seems to have been triggered
[08:03:20] <Guus> perhaps it didn't deploy, let me check
[08:04:30] <Guus> hmm, it's set up to deploy automatically
[08:05:19] <jonasw> are you sure we don’t need explicit rewrite rules to get stuff from *inside* the container?
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[08:05:30] <jonasw> I think I had to interact with iteam to get xeplist.xml to be visible outside the container
[08:06:07] <Guus> I'm quite new to this, so I'm not sure about anything :)
[08:06:14] <Guus> I just forced another update, which didn't seem to affect the output
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[08:06:34] <Guus> so the issue does not appear to be caused by the github->dockerhub->server update mechanism.
[08:07:44] <Guus> the container config is here, by the way: https://github.com/xsf/xep-docker-base
[08:09:19] <Guus> most likely, there's a rewrite rule that I didn't find on my first check
[08:09:24] <Guus> (which was a simple grep)
[08:09:27] <Guus> let me check further
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[08:11:43] <Guus> oh, /extensions/ isn't mapped to that repo for every resource that's under that address
[08:12:03] <Guus> location ~ ^/extensions/((xep-[0-9]*|xeps|rss|atom|prettify)\.(html|pdf|xml|js|css)|xep\.(ent|xsl|dtd)|xeplist.xml|inbox.+)$
[08:12:20] <Guus> "just" for that
[08:13:11] <jonasw> right :)
[08:13:29] <jonasw> adding a |xmpp\.css sounds reasonable
[08:13:45] <jonasw> (after inbox.+)
[08:13:56] <Guus> that's what I just did :)
[08:14:53] <Guus> how's that?
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[08:15:59] <jonasw> yay \o/
[08:16:04] <jonasw> take a look yourself: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html
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[08:16:28] <Guus> this does suggest that we have a duplicate for that css file somewhere
[08:16:33] <jonasw> indeed
[08:16:35] <Guus> we should remove one of them
[08:16:38] <jonasw> kill it with fire
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[08:20:46] <Guus> confused. https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/102415da28cad2dac9a2bb4c651d95932fec5f86/buildCompleteWebsite.sh#L64
[08:20:59] <jonasw> don’t think about that too much
[08:21:06] <jonasw> especially not about that sed line a bit below
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[08:39:05] <Guus> Unsure wher the duplicate file is
[08:39:23] <Guus> I'm likely missing something obvious
[08:39:30] <Guus> but can't spend to much more time now.
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[08:40:22] <jonasw> the duplicate file is most likely copied by that script
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[08:43:14] <Guus> perhaps that copy can be removed from the script then?
[08:44:41] <jonasw> I think so
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[08:47:32] <Guus> done
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[12:07:32] <pep.> Anybody knows is there's more than xmpp.jp in Japan?
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[14:34:08] <jonasw> Guus, did I come across as if I was surprised / critizising the discussion?
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[14:34:56] <Guus> no, just the venue :)
[14:35:08] <jonasw> yes, that was a bit my intention
[14:35:21] <jonasw> when you wrote to members@, I was surprised that you invited people to github actually
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[14:36:18] <Guus> Well, that's where the various screenshots where. as well as a pre-existing discussion.
[14:36:47] <Guus> not that I've put a lot of thought behind it.
[14:37:42] <Guus> in retrospect, perhaps I shouldn't have assumed that everyone has a github account
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[14:39:38] <jonasw> yah, I woudl have suggested to suggest to read on github and continue discussion on members@ for inclusivity
[14:39:53] <jonasw> every member is on members@, but not every member is on github
[14:40:06] <jonasw> (on the other hand, nobody complained)
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[14:41:08] <Guus> I'll do that next time. To be honest, I didn't expect much discussion in the first place.
[14:41:33] <jonasw> I did (after I read the discussion on the old logo in the archives, I was confident that people will have strong opinions)
[14:41:35] <Guus> I suspect that most people don't care to much - it's a pretty small change.
[14:41:56] <jonasw> (which is why I suggested to notify members@ in the first place, at least I recall to have done so, but maybe I only planned and then you did on your own, dunno)
[14:42:09] <Guus> someone did, might've been you :)
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[14:42:29] <Kev> I think Board is the right place. They can ask members or not, as they wish.
[14:42:55] <Kev> It was Board who commissioned the current logo.
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[14:44:32] <Ge0rG> But it was a previous board, not the current one.
[14:45:24] <Guus> it's the entity, not the persons, that matter. If not, we'd have to revisit everything each time a new board is installed.
[14:45:27] <intosi> Ge0rG: I'm not sure how that matters.
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[14:46:46] <Ge0rG> On rereading, I try to understand what exactly Board is the right place to do? To design which of the three logo variants to use?
[14:46:56] <Ge0rG> On rereading, I try to understand what exactly Board is the right place to do? To decide which of the three logo variants to use?
[14:47:18] <Guus> I'll suggest to Board to accept the logo improvement as suggested by me in the PR
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[14:47:34] <SouL> +1
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[14:48:46] <Guus> actually, is anyone from Board here (or anyone that can add this to Trello)? The Board meetings are at a very inconvenient time for me.
[14:49:35] *jonasw doesn’t have +w
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[14:51:24] <Guus> Martin, MattJ, nyco show 'available' in my presence list :) Can any of you please add a Trello card to the Board Trello collection: "Descide wether to accept logo improvement as provided in https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/363 "?
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[14:53:41] <Kev> s/improvement/change/ :)
[14:53:56] <Guus> Hey, I went from 'fix' to 'improvement' :D
[14:54:08] <Guus> _just for you_ ;)
[14:54:27] <SouL> 😁
[14:54:48] <Zash> Can we go deeper? How neutral can you word that?
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[14:55:52] <Guus> Zash: yes, we probably can. No, I won't.
[14:56:14] <dwd> "Are Board foolish enough to reject the magnificent improvement as provided in [...]"
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[14:58:37] <Guus> dwd, :) and - do you still have access to the board trello thingy? I've given up on board picking up my topics from the mailing list.
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[14:59:31] <intosi> dwd: an overwhelming majority of the people have...
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[14:59:46] <Ge0rG> Guus: having your item on the trello is not a guarantee for anything.
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[15:00:46] <tux> "We, the people of XSF, hereby appeal to the Board to accept the sensible correction of our Logo as provided in... "
[15:01:00] <Guus> Ge0rG: for me, it's the only way that I had some success.
[15:01:12] <tux> Ge0rG: this could be a subtitle for a project management course
[15:01:31] <Ge0rG> Guus: IIRC the SCAM reference to your mail has been on trello for multiple weeks.
[15:01:47] <Ge0rG> tux for Board! :D
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[15:02:30] <Guus> Ge0rG: Please note that I wrote: "some" success.
[15:02:44] <MattJ> Guus, https://trello.com/c/KMFd33fZ/285-approve-guuss-logo-amendments
[15:02:59] <Guus> (heart)
[15:03:18] <Guus> "amendments" nice. :)
[15:03:31] <jonasw> will that be the 1st amendment to our logo?
[15:04:33] <Ge0rG> Will the second amendment contain bear arms?
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[15:05:30] <MattJ> The first time round I read "bear" as "beer"
[15:05:52] <Guus> (that was likely his intention)
[15:05:55] <dwd> Which'd be more apropos.
[15:06:05] <Ge0rG> I heard that the biggest proponents of the second amendment are also proponents of beer.
[15:06:08] <Ge0rG> Guus: not at all.
[15:06:38] <Ge0rG> But I think the association of bear arms to the second amendment is a purely US-American thing.
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[15:06:59] <jonasw> oh dear
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[15:07:02] <jonasw> that pun hurt me
[15:07:16] <Ge0rG> dear deer?
[15:07:42] <Ge0rG> In my opinion, that pun is the only positive thing about the second amendment.
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[15:57:18] <edhelas> intosi hey :)
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[16:36:31] <Guus> https://about.mattermost.com/blog/u-s-federal-agency-migrates-from-jabber-to-mattermost-the-open-source-way/
[16:36:59] <Zash> Wat
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[16:38:13] <mathieui> the cisco product, I assume
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[16:39:48] <Guus> yes
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[16:56:38] <pep.> I'm not sure why but I can't forget the fact that it's not XMPP. And I'm sure I'm not the only one, reading this article
[16:57:07] <Zash> What's not what?
[16:57:17] <pep.> cisco's jabber thing
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[16:57:34] <Ge0rG> Is it not? Maybe we need to pull their JABBER[tm] license, then?
[16:57:43] <pep.> Is it?
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[16:59:21] <pep.> "Not only did Mattermost support the Pidgin interface for hundreds of their internal users", from what I hear the gateway I really meh
[16:59:40] <Zash> gateways tend to be meh
[16:59:46] <pep.> sure
[17:00:23] <Guus> MUC doesn't provide a room creation date / age type of attribute out of the box, correct?
[17:00:25] <Zash> Lots of work to do it nicely
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[17:00:52] <Zash> Guus: Doesn't ring any bells, probably not.
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[18:42:54] <SamWhited> Does https://xmpp.org/community/events.html ever actually get updated? Someone just asked me when the summits were because there's not one on the calendar (they were looking at that page)
[18:43:06] <SamWhited> Maybe it should link to an up to date list?
[18:43:27] <SamWhited> or to the calendar
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[18:45:50] <SamWhited> I was going to recommend that they look at the calendar instead, but I can't actually find a link to it on the website
[18:47:52] <jjrh> Yeah - I can't find one.
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[18:48:04] <jjrh> Thought it might be in the agenda somewhere but it's not.
[18:48:06] <Zash> That page could use some words about the annual Brussels summit
[18:48:29] <SamWhited> oh hi, I didn't see that you were also here :)
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[18:54:19] <Guus> SCAM needs to address that. Someone should kick those guys in action.
[18:55:07] <Guus> I saw that nyco recently added something to the wiki - but we've yet to organize ourselves
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[18:55:41] <Guus> by-the-by: I'd welcome PRs that improve that page.
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[19:41:38] <dwd> Guus, FYI: SCAM is currently "only" a Work Team. The Board (on your request, probably) could spin up a SIG, which is just an open forum, no membership involved. I suspect you have something akin to this going on anyway, but it'd mean the Work Team itself would have the spend authorization, whereas the SIG can just get on with more general work like Wiki pages.
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[19:53:59] <Guus> dwd - I'm unsure what value the SIG would add, pragmatically. *everyone* can do pretty much anything that SCAM intends to do, apart from perhaps budgetting things, and interaction with the social media accounts. As summits, conferences and meetups are very topical, I'd expect the effecitve membership of a SIG to change between each event (well, I expect that that *wont* happen in reality).
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[19:59:46] <dwd> Well, yes. A SIG is, more or less, a mailing list.
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[20:05:44] <Guus> I can get that without formally defining a SIG
[20:06:01] <Guus> board already OK'd that.
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