XSF Discussion - 2017-09-23


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  107. Guus Ge0rG: sorry to disappoint you. 😉
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  161. jonasw Ge0rG, I also strongly had the impression that the Opportunistic TLS term is wrong
  162. jonasw but then I looked at wikipedia, and following the wikipedia definition it seems to be right
  163. jonasw it just isn’t what it is used for everywhere else, from my perception
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  168. Kev Opportunistic TLS is using TLS whenever it's available, and not caring about authentication.
  169. jonasw pretty much, yes
  170. jonasw at least that’s my understanding of it
  171. jonasw which is why I think that term is massively incorrect and misleading for XMPP.
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  174. Guus "Opportunistic TLS (Transport Layer Security) refers to extensions in plain text communication protocols, which offer a way to upgrade a plain text connection to an encrypted (TLS or SSL) connection instead of using a separate port for encrypted communication. Several protocols use a command named "STARTTLS" for this purpose. "
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  178. jonasw Guus, that’s the wikipedia definition, I don’t think wikipedia is necessarily right in those matters.
  179. jonasw I’ve been in the SMTP community for quite some time, and there the term Opportunistic TLS definitely refers to "we just do STARTTLS if available and don’t care about authn"
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  181. Guus Please fix Wikipedia then. :)
  182. Guus on a completely different subject: our domain is having trouble doing s2s to both jabber.org as well as xmpp.org
  183. Guus did something chagne there/
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  185. Guus can someone help me debug on that end what's going on?
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  217. Flow What Kev said plus that you continue without TLS in case it's not available (at least that's my understanding)
  218. jonasw Flow, indeed
  219. Flow So a xmpp client library set to "TLS required" performing STARTTLS successfully would not be "Opportunistic TLS"
  220. jonasw indeed
  221. Flow I don't that's bike shedding, after all, there seems to be some confusion about what it is
  222. jonasw I agree
  223. Flow jonasw: :)
  224. jonasw and given what Opportunistic TLS means in e.g. SMTP context, I think it would be *very* bad to have that tacked on XMPP
  225. Flow and somebody should clarify it on wikipedia
  226. jonasw agreed
  227. jonasw hard to find reliable sources though
  228. Flow well psa gave some references to RFCs
  229. Flow I'd possibly do some wikipedia editing myself
  230. Flow but after i've mowed the lawn
  231. jonasw > Most SMTP clients will then send the email and possibly passwords in plain text, often with no notification to the user. In particular, many SMTP connections occur between mail servers, where user notification is not practical.
  232. jonasw that sentence from the article is also highly misleading
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  381. moparisthebest I think we keep calling it STARTLS and just explicitly link to that part of the xmpp rfc
  382. moparisthebest That seems like it would prevent any confusion?
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  386. moparisthebest https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc3920.html#tls
  387. moparisthebest Any Dev reading xep368 will know that and it uses STARTLS
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  390. Flow moparisthebest: did you just use the old RFC on purpose?
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  432. tux Maybe servers should deliver old RFCs only after filling out at least two paragraphs on why the download is necessary. Or a quiz about relevant content of the updating RFC.
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  434. moparisthebest Flow: no just first search result :)
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