Monday, September 25, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:12:03] <Ge0rG> Is it possible to test XEP-0368 Direct TLS without actually creating the DNS records? You can't put SRV into hosts files :(
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[07:13:33] <jonasw> Ge0rG, test the implementation at the client or at the server?
[07:13:41] <Ge0rG> jonasw: test a server deployment
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[07:14:27] <Kev> Ge0rG: dnsmasq running locally.
[07:14:29] <jonasw> most clients allow to specify a port
[07:14:35] <jonasw> and a host to connect to explicitly
[07:14:39] <jonasw> so you’d use that
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[07:16:36] <Ge0rG> Yeah, I once enabled it in Gajim with a dozen clicks or so.
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[07:24:11] <zinid> guys, what string should be put in SNI in the case of IDN domain? original or pynnycoded?
[07:27:46] <jonasw> zinid, interesting question, that I’d like to know too :-)
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[07:31:07] <zinid> ah, found in RFC6066
[07:31:10] <zinid> "HostName" contains the fully qualified DNS hostname of the server,
as understood by the client. The hostname is represented as a byte
string using ASCII encoding without a trailing dot. This allows the
support of internationalized domain names through the use of A-labels
defined in [RFC5890].
[07:31:18] <zinid> so should be punnycoded
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[07:34:27] <jonasw> mhm
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[07:39:17] <Ge0rG> I wonder if I should move the yax.im A records to point to the XMPP server instead of the web server, so that clients that fail SRV will still properly connect.
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[07:41:05] <Ge0rG> It looks like 15% of client connections ignore SRV for yax.im
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[07:43:12] <edhelas> Hi, I'd like to know the state of this PR ? https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/500
[07:43:59] <jonasw> edhelas, I think some council votes are pending, I haven’t processed last council meetings minutes yet, sorry
[07:44:12] <jonasw> edhelas, most efficient will be if you ping me on the PR, I’ll take care of it when I get home
[07:44:51] <edhelas> okay
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[07:45:14] <edhelas> I'm also planning to do other PR on 0060, maybe today
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[08:42:18] <edhelas> jonasw what is your github account nickname ?
[08:42:25] <jonasw> edhelas, @horazont
[08:42:57] <edhelas> danke
[08:43:45] <jonasw> de rien
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[08:45:12] <edhelas> I'm also planning to do another PR on 0060, but I'd like to get some feedbacks here before
[08:45:30] <edhelas> I'd like to expose the access_model of the nodes in their metadata
[08:45:41] <edhelas> I'm wondering if this could brings issues
[08:46:12] <edhelas> basically adding pubsub#access_model there https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#entity-metadata
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[08:55:17] <daniel> > It looks like 15% of client connections ignore SRV for yax.im
Would be interesting to know what clients those are and whether or not they are using Tor
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[09:01:44] <daniel> conversations.ims numbers are equally high. Maybe even closer to 20%
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[09:11:01] <Ge0rG> I'll do some version logging for the next days.
[09:11:15] <jonasw> Ge0rG, how are you going to track that?
[09:11:33] <jonasw> also, I’ve seen clients fall back to A/AAAA if they try to connect before DNS is up
[09:11:44] <Ge0rG> jonasw: modified mod_query_client_ver in prosody. Non-SRV connections to yax.im all come through a NAT on the web server
[09:11:48] <jonasw> the SRV lookup fails (and they cannot necessarily distinguish the reason) and go on with A/AAAA, which may then pass :/
[09:12:24] <Ge0rG> I've had very often "Connection refused" errors from my own yaxim instance for a week or so, and then I realized the NAT rule got reset.
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[09:14:07] <jonasw> I think that the A/AAAA fallback may be doing more harm than good
[09:14:37] <jonasw> I’ve had very confusing certificate errors for weeks until I realized that A/AAAA pointed to a test instacne which wasn’t supposed to be live where the certificates had expired. I don’t even want to know what happened *before* the certificates expired ...
[09:14:38] <Ge0rG> jonasw: it's clearly a bug, the question is just _where_.
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[09:15:25] <jonasw> the root cause is probably that applications cannot (do not?) distinguish between "network errors" and "records don’t exist"
[09:15:48] <Ge0rG> Yeah.
[09:15:51] <jonasw> with validating resolvers, you’ll also always rather see a generic validation error in favour of a NXDOMAIN if the backedn experienced network errors
[09:15:54] <jonasw> so that isn’t going to go away
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[09:16:23] <jonasw> well, okay, that actually improves things.
[09:16:31] <jonasw> if the API exposes the difference
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[09:26:02] <Ge0rG> It looks like most Non-SRV connections are from yaxim, followed by Conversations. And then some Pidgin and Cackle.
[09:26:20] <Ge0rG> However, the stats are skewed because I query on new connections, and those happen far more often on mobile
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[09:28:54] <jonasw> and your userbase is probably also skewed
[09:28:59] <jonasw> towards yaxim
[09:29:12] <Ge0rG> No way! I'm a neutral server operator!
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[09:30:50] <jonasw> that may be, but are you also a neutral app developer? ;-)
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[09:30:53] <daniel> cackle is just a Conversations fork though
[09:31:01] <daniel> or theme
[09:31:49] <Ge0rG> There also was one MAXS.
[09:32:05] <jonasw> MAXS <3
[09:33:58] <MattJ> MAXS <3
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[09:38:45] <Flow>
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[09:42:35] <Ge0rG> daniel: did you change the DNS records for conference.siacs.eu around noon on Saturday? My prosody wasn't able to resolve the server in the morning, then came up with an old(?) IP aroung 11:15, and then failed to resolve again.
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[09:49:58] <daniel> Ge0rG, we switched over on friday at ~23:45
[09:50:16] <daniel> i don't think i've touched the records since
[09:50:29] <Ge0rG> daniel: I'm sure this was a weirdness in prosody's DNS code, but I wanted to be 100% sure with that.
[09:50:59] <Ge0rG> daniel: and 78.47.217.197 was the old IP?
[09:51:14] <daniel> sounds about right
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[09:51:27] <Ge0rG> daniel: I'll quote you on https://prosody.im/issues/issue/1001 if that's ok.
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[09:59:46] <daniel> i just created srv records. but that doesn't seem to help
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[10:01:59] <daniel> or maybe it did and just takes some time to propagate https://status.conversations.im/reverse/conference.siacs.eu/
[10:02:07] <daniel> let's wait and see what happens
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[10:02:48] <Ge0rG> prosody has some strange bugs in handling CNAMEs.
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[10:44:45] <daniel> creating the srv record did in fact fix it
[10:46:28] <Ge0rG> daniel: ...worked around ;)
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[10:47:18] <daniel> semantics
[10:48:25] <Ge0rG> The XSF is 90% about semantics.
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[11:43:25] <dwd> CNAMEs are really odd. They shouldn't work (but might) in combination with SRV records, for a start.
[11:45:08] <Ge0rG> Yeah, but they don't even work without SRV.
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[11:47:22] <dwd> Ge0rG, Arguably they shouldn't - RFC 6120 § 3.2.2 only says A or AAAA. That probably implies CNAME (and DNAME), though.
[11:47:45] <jonasw> DNAME is entirely DNS-server-side anyways, isn’t it?
[11:48:00] <dwd> Ge0rG, You *can* - in principle - use CNAMEs for, say, _xmpp-server._tcp.example.org. Just not for whatever the hostname it looks up to is.
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[11:48:27] <dwd> jonasw, There's a fallback to do that, but I think there's an EDNS0 flag for handling them client-side.
[11:50:13] <Ge0rG> dwd: but the service name is a CNAME, and it doesn't resolve
[11:50:34] <dwd> Ge0rG, What do you mean by the service name?
[11:54:42] <Ge0rG> dwd:
conference.siacs.eu. 300 IN CNAME xmpp-hosting.conversations.im.
xmpp-hosting.conversations.im. 300 IN A 91.250.85.114
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[11:56:17] <dwd> So that only works is the process looking up decides it'll use gethostbyname/getaddrinfo, or else do DNS directly but follow CNAMEs.
[11:56:35] <dwd> Neither is spelt out in RFC 6120 § 3.2.2.
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[12:01:43] <Ge0rG> I'm not sure RFC6120 is the right place to define how DNS should work.
[12:02:35] <Ge0rG> However, with the wording you referenced, I could blame daniel for not following the RFC, instead of blaming prosody for having a broken CNAME lookup mechanism.
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[12:03:01] <jonasw> given that we have SRV, I don’t see the reason for CNAMEs in any case.
[12:03:14] <jonasw> (as mentioned earlier, I think the A/AAAA fallback does more harm than good)
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[12:03:27] <Ge0rG> jonasw: SRVs happen to be black magic from the future for many DNS providers.
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[12:03:44] <jonasw> what
[12:03:51] <Holger> So the Prosody people broke their CNAME caching in order to strictly follow RFC 6120?
[12:04:17] <zinid> lol
[12:04:28] <Ge0rG> jonasw: with some DNS operators, you can't add SRV entries.
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[12:05:34] <MattJ> Holger, just for the record... no :)
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[12:07:49] <jonasw> Ge0rG, I understood, but I am horrified
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[12:10:26] <zinid> so these providers don't follow RFC6120?
[12:10:34] <zinid> we need to notify them
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[12:10:53] <Ge0rG> zinid: oh, they do.
[12:11:03] <Ge0rG> it's the others that don't.
[12:11:56] <Holger> jonasw: You might have the CNAME record for other services anyway. Apart from that you might want to maintain the SRV targets in a single record and have multiple CNAMEs pointing to that.
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[12:13:12] <Holger> dwd: I agree with Ge0rG that 6120 sounds like the wrong place to specify such things. But if it's the right place, then missing CNAME support sounds like an obvious 6120 bug to me.
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[12:16:41] <dwd> Holger, I don't think it is specifying how DNS works. I do think it ought not to be quite so precise in the lookups involved.
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[12:20:47] <Holger> Just sounds wrong to me that each and every protocol that uses DNS names should specify "yes we also resolve CNAMEs like everyone else".
[12:21:13] <Holger> As opposed to just specifying the parts that are *specific* to this protocol.
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[12:31:40] <jonasw> I bet there’s some wording in the document defining CNAME that resolvers (including stub resolvers) MUST follow CNAMEs transparently or so
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[13:07:36] <Flow> > ‎[14:07:11] ‎jonasw‎: (as mentioned earlier, I think the A/AAAA fallback does more harm than good)
Given the amount of DNS implementations not supporting SRV RRs, I doubt that this is true
[13:08:21] <Flow> what Holger said
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[13:09:35] <zinid> just let's use NAPTR to break things completely :)
[13:10:42] <jonasw> Flow, is there a list of such popular services?
[13:10:54] <jonasw> and IM services hosted there? they should apply some pressure.
[13:11:18] <Flow> jonasw: I'm not only talking about services, more about all things DNS
[13:11:22] <jonasw> the issue with the fallback is that it forces services using SRV records to also have valid A/AAAA records or at least it constraints what you can do with the A/AAAA of the domain.
[13:11:43] <Flow> jonasw: It doesn't force them
[13:12:14] <Flow> but yes, for maximum connectivity you want to have your XMPP domain also resolve A/AAAA
[13:12:40] <jonasw> Flow, no, if there are intermittent issues which makes the client believe that the SRV records don’t exist, they fall back to A/AAAA
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[13:12:45] <jonasw> and that’s an issue
[13:13:10] <Flow> it's an issue if there are no A/AAAA records
[13:13:28] <jonasw> or if the records point to something which isn’t the XMPP service you wanted to connect to
[13:13:30] <Flow> but how would not having the A/AAAA fallback improve the situation
[13:13:49] <jonasw> if there are no A/AAAA records, it is more or less obvious to clients that they should re-try later because it’s most likely network
[13:13:53] <jonasw> (or a configuration error)
[13:14:23] <jonasw> but if end up in the fallback (e.g. on a transparent stream-managmeent reconnect) and the fallback is not the XMPP service you’re looking for, a lot of funny stuff can happen, from certificate errors, over stream errors to authentication failed
[13:14:27] <jonasw> all of which will probably nuke the clients state
[13:14:54] <jonasw> that’s what I mean by "harm"
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[13:15:16] <jonasw> (I had that once with an unfortunately configured A/AAAA record which pointed to another XMPP service)
[13:15:24] <jonasw> (took me weeks to figure out what the reason for those errors were)
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[14:02:20] <Flow> jonasw: I see, but without the fallback you wouldn't even be able to connect as soon as SRV breaks for some reason
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[14:10:51] <jonasw> Flow: yes, and treating it as a network error would do the right thing (retry soon)
[14:11:39] <Flow> jonasw: Not if it's your resolver lib not being able to perform SRV lookups
[14:11:49] <Flow> or you home router resolver
[14:12:13] <jonasw> but you can't distinguish a wrong A/AAAA you should never have seen from incorrect credentials or something
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[14:12:51] <Flow> incorrect credentials should return a well defined error, no?
[14:13:10] <Flow> but, yes, the situation is not ideal
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[14:17:35] <jonasw> Flow: sure it does, but you can get such an error when connecting to the wrong xmpp service due to A/AAAA lookup
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[14:22:17] <Flow> i see
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[14:35:37] <Ge0rG> When I send a MUC join and lose my connection, so that it will be closed by a 0198 timeout, prosody will send error responses to all queued stanzas, including individual MUC participants. Is that good / bad / ugly / all of the above?
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[14:41:39] <jonasw> Ge0rG, I think MUCs won’t route error messages back. sending back error presences is the right thing.
[14:42:27] <Ge0rG> Except that some funny MUC implementation will also kick all my MSNs
[14:42:44] <Ge0rG> or is that NMSs?
[14:43:15] <jonasw> sure, but that are broken MUC implementations then
[14:43:25] <jonasw> not sending unavailable presence would be desastrous
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[14:43:43] <Ge0rG> jonasw: it's okay to send presence-unavailable to my own nickname, but to all the participants?
[14:43:51] <jonasw> oh!
[14:43:52] <Ge0rG> or rather, presence-error.
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[14:44:04] <jonasw> to the participants doesn’t seem right to me
[14:44:38] <dwd> Ge0rG, I'm not sure I understand what the problem you're describing is.
[14:44:40] <Ge0rG> it's right from the 0198 session destruction context, though.
[14:44:41] <Holger> What's the downside with just dropping all presence stanzas on 0198 timeout?
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[14:44:56] <Holger> How does the error stanza help anyone?
[14:45:20] <MattJ> If you send presence to someone, do you expect an error if they don't ever receive it?
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[14:45:29] <dwd> Ge0rG, So you have an existing local session connected to a local MUC, in a 198-detached state, and then this times out?
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[14:45:32] <Holger> MattJ: I don't.
[14:45:46] <Holger> MattJ: Because how would I handle that error?
[14:45:58] <dwd> Holger, Giant modal dialog box of course.
[14:46:04] <Holger> Hehe.
[14:46:07] <dwd> Holger, I'm surprised you had to ask.
[14:46:11] <Ge0rG> dwd: I'll try again:
1. I send a join presence to a MUC
2. I disappear into the void
3. The MUC sends everything that's sent on join to my 0198 cache
4. my 0198 session gets destroyed, so my server sends an error response for each individual stanza in the cache, including all the participant presences.
[14:46:40] <dwd> Ge0rG, Ah, OK. And what's wrong with that?
[14:47:00] <Ge0rG> dwd: the flood of presence errors to MUC participants.
[14:47:11] <dwd> Ge0rG, Ah, OK. And what's wrong with *that*?
[14:47:26] <Ge0rG> dwd: that was the point of my question. Is it wrong or just ugly.
[14:47:27] <Holger> Being useless?
[14:47:48] <dwd> Holger, Useless is OK, or at least it's nothing bad, surely?
[14:48:02] <Holger> It's nothing bad.
[14:48:10] <jonasw> I’m not sure
[14:48:24] <jonasw> sending presences to other MUC participants is at least weird
[14:48:25] <dwd> Ge0rG, I think it's right. Although I don't think the MUC should be broadcasting presence errors - it should juts error you out fo the MUC and broadcast that.
[14:48:29] <jonasw> because that’s normally how you join/change nicknames
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[14:49:03] <Ge0rG> dwd: I don't know what the MUC does with the flood, to be honest
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[14:49:26] <dwd> Ge0rG, If it just absorbs it, that's fine. I think.
[14:49:47] <Ge0rG> dwd: sounds reasonable to me.
[14:49:52] <dwd> Ge0rG, The problem is that to stop it, we'd need to track not just the stanzas, but the semantics of those stanzas.
[14:50:09] <dwd> And that's really the MUC entity's job, I think.
[14:50:12] <jonasw> shouldn’t all MUC presences have an <x/> in them which makes it easy to find?
[14:50:15] <dwd> (At least, wherever possible)
[14:50:20] <Holger> Nah.
[14:50:25] <Ge0rG> jonasw: and <x/> specific code in 0198 as well, now?
[14:50:31] <jonasw> Ge0rG, *shrug*
[14:50:36] <Holger> My question was: My not just silently drop *all* presence stanzas on 0198 timeout?
[14:50:40] <Ge0rG> Let's fix 0045 first.
[14:50:43] <Holger> No matter whether MUC-related or not?
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[14:51:20] <Holger> Is there a single use case where the originator of the presence would handle the error message in any other way than ignoring it?
[14:51:39] <dwd> Holger, I don't think that's needed, or desirable. If an error would be generated immediately on session close, then it should be generated on 198-closure.
[14:52:11] <Holger> It would not be generated without 0198, no?
[14:52:16] <jonasw> does one get presence-errors when sending a presence to an unavailable entity?
[14:52:18] <Holger> This is a 0198 (mis)feature.
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[14:52:39] <Holger> No.
[14:53:00] <dwd> jonasw, Ah, that's a "sort of". You get a presence error if your sending the presence causes an error to be detected.
[14:54:55] <dwd> Speaking of 198, what are people setting the timeout to these days?
[14:55:15] <jonasw> I have it set at 5 or 10 minutes I think
[14:55:30] <jonasw> I have it set at 10 minutes.
[14:55:53] <dwd> jonasw, Any statistics on hit/miss of resume attempts?
[14:56:06] <Ge0rG> On my personal server I set it to 2h, because when on bad mobile my data connection might get interrupted for so long due to a phone call
[14:56:11] <jonasw> dwd, I don’t think I have logs with enough detail, also my userbase is approximately 10.
[14:57:10] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: Is that a CDMA thing that your data gets cut off when you're on a call?
[14:57:25] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: no, it's a 2G/LTE thing.
[14:57:44] <Holger> When I looked some years ago, my impression was that most resumptions happen within 5 minutes. Which seems to be a common default.
[14:57:44] *dwd thinks hit/miss statis would be amazingly interesting.
[14:57:50] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: 3G can route voice and data at the same time, the others can't
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[14:58:06] <Holger> I.e. increasing the timeout significantly won't increase the resumption rate significantly.
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[14:58:15] <Ge0rG> dwd: there might be false negatives due to client restarts (e.g. OOM conditions)
[14:58:27] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: I'm reasonably sure LTE can, no? Maybe my phone is using both or something to get around that restriction. I should look into this.
[14:58:35] <dwd> Ge0rG, That wouldn't give a resume attempt, no?
[14:58:38] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: only if you have VoLTE
[14:58:52] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: otherwise, your phone will fall back to 3G or 2G, whatever's there.
[14:58:54] <SamWhited> Oh! Right, forgot that was a thing.
[14:58:56] <dwd> Ge0rG, I mean, it would give a resource conflict and killing the original detached session.
[14:59:05] <Ge0rG> dwd: right
[14:59:11] <jonasw> (for now).
[14:59:23] <Ge0rG> until people start using random resource IDs.
[14:59:30] *dwd has a 198 resumption patch for Openfire, but it's not timing out yet - like, at all.
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[15:00:55] <SamWhited> Or rather, I forgot CSFB was a thing. Ge0rG: You're in the U.S. no? Do some providers not support SVLTE or VoLTE?
[15:01:32] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: I'm in Germany. VoLTE support is rather spotty here, and you need a manually selected "compatible" phone.
[15:01:32] <Holger> dwd: That's how Cisco Jabber did it initially.
[15:01:55] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: Good to know; thanks. I wrote about this stuff a bit in the mobile considerations XEP, but obviously don't actually know what I'm talking about
[15:01:56] <Ge0rG> unbounded 0198 sessions guarantee awesome UX
[15:02:14] <dwd> Ge0rG, But quite high memory usage, I suspect.
[15:02:19] <Holger> (And when the client didn't resume for some reason and tried to open a new session with the same resource, the new session was rejected.)
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[15:02:43] <Ge0rG> dwd: memory consumption is something usually not seen by your users. An "online" buddy that doesn't react for days, and where all the messages vanish, does.
[15:03:02] <Ge0rG> Holger: yeah, that's awesome!
[15:03:02] <SamWhited> Depends who your users are.
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[15:03:06] <jonasw> I wonder whether unbounded sessions are indeed possible with some tricks
[15:03:19] <SamWhited> If you make an appliance that someone else runs, your users notice high memory usage.
[15:03:20] <Ge0rG> jonasw: possible - maybe. practical - nope.
[15:03:22] <jonasw> like: instead of storing messages in some memroy buffer, refer to MAM. apply CSI rules to drop messages.
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[15:03:37] <jonasw> presence is trickier, IQs too
[15:03:40] <dwd> jonasw, The problem is what other users see.
[15:04:15] <jonasw> dwd, is it? is presence even a relevant thing anyomre?
[15:04:27] <dwd> jonasw, Although we could do some magic there, even, by triggering unavailable presence but leaving the session open. MUC dies, of course, but MIX would stay live.
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[15:05:05] <dwd> jonasw, Yeah, it's relevant. Conversations notwithstanding, there's lots of IM applications where presence is as vital as it always used to be.
[15:05:06] <jonasw> dwd, while I have you here: a friendly reminder that there are still missing votes from you on the last council meeting :)
[15:05:30] <dwd> jonasw, Oh, yeah. Weird bug hit me, so I was in the room but not seeing anything. I need to track that one down.
[15:07:01] <Ge0rG> dwd: maybe you weren't in the room at all then?
[15:07:15] <Ge0rG> 0045 has a nice set of desync issues.
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[16:16:00] <dwd> Ge0rG, Oh, I was. Got the presence, too. Just not the messages. I've half a feeling I've cocked something up somewhere. I've literally no idea what build I've been running.
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[16:43:55] <SamWhited> Brand new web client, first field I tried was an XSS and naturally I can't find a security contact.
[16:44:05] <jonasw> SamWhited, excellent!
[16:44:18] <SamWhited> I give up. I should just go blackhat, it would be way easier.
[16:44:18] <waqas> SamWhited: But it's shiny!
[16:45:53] <waqas> Honestly, I've given up reviewing JS/HTML XMPP clients, and will fail to trust any unless I write one myself
[16:46:03] <waqas> I suppose that's not limited to XMPP clients...
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[16:46:40] <SamWhited> For the sake of my sanity I should do the same.
[16:46:57] <waqas> And the shinier and fancier they are, typically the worse the lack of even slight thought put into security hardening
[16:47:16] <jonasw> waqas, that’s my impression, too
[16:47:22] <jonasw> and I haven’t even tried to pentest anything :)
[16:47:25] <SamWhited> On the plus side, 3 seconds (if that) from login to XSS might be a new record. I am not happy about this, record, but I guess it's nice to have a new personal record?
[16:47:42] <waqas> SamWhited: I admit, I haven't broken one in 3 seconds yet :)
[16:47:44] <jonasw> SamWhited, is it free or open source software? post to oss-security ;-)
[16:47:51] <jonasw> SamWhited, congrats, too
[16:48:08] <SamWhited> waqas: I literally logged in, pasted a stupid simple XSS into the first field I saw, and sure enough it worked.
[16:48:36] <jonasw> how can you even have such things if you do XML
[16:48:45] <jonasw> that sounds as if you could also paste raw XML into the XML stream
[16:49:02] <waqas> jonasw: Interpret it as HTML, obviously
[16:49:21] <SamWhited> jonasw: Probably. In this case that's not what was happening (it was a roster group name being decoded and inserted into the DOM as HTML)
[16:49:43] <waqas> SamWhited: I'd bet it's string concat. blah.innerHTML += "<div>" + text + "<div>";
[16:49:46] <jonasw> SamWhited, sure, but ... but ... I can’t even. so they used innerHTML?!
[16:49:54] <jonasw> the world is bad
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[17:00:00] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: but roster groups are only visible to yourself!1!
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[17:54:32] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: Yah, that particular one might not be the worst attack vector since they'd have to have access to your client anyways I guess. Either way, it probably means there are others.
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[18:01:11] <Ge0rG> Yeah. That's probably true. Sad, but true.
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[18:25:40] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[18:28:42] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[18:28:53] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:30:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:30:26] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[18:31:05] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:32:03] *** jabberatdemo has left the room
[18:32:17] *** Kev shows as "online"
[18:32:25] *** goffi has joined the room
[18:33:25] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:33:28] *** valo has joined the room
[18:34:39] *** waqas has left the room
[18:35:42] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[18:38:03] *** zinid has left the room
[18:38:42] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[18:40:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:42:38] *** zinid shows as "online"
[18:42:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:43:34] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:43:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:48:14] <jonasw> isn’t there a way to share roster items? ;-)
[18:48:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:49:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:49:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:51:27] *** valo has joined the room
[18:52:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:52:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:54:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:55:02] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[18:56:44] *** fp-tester shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[18:59:57] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[19:02:31] *** tux shows as "online"
[19:03:34] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:03:46] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:04:16] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:11:25] <Zash> jonasw: roster item exchange?
[19:12:11] *** mimi89999 has left the room
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[19:12:31] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
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[19:12:41] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
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[19:12:41] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
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[19:12:44] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[19:12:44] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[19:12:44] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[19:12:45] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[19:14:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:14:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:15:36] *** daniel has left the room
[19:19:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:22:15] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[19:22:37] *** valo has joined the room
[19:23:01] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:25:05] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[19:26:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:26:54] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:29:23] *** fp-tester shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[19:31:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:35:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:39:12] *** winfried shows as "online"
[19:39:23] *** fp-tester shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[19:40:20] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:41:20] *** Guus has left the room
[19:43:27] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[19:44:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:45:29] *** daniel shows as "online"
[19:46:05] *** Kev shows as "online"
[19:46:23] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:46:32] *** Guus has left the room
[19:49:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:49:58] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[19:49:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:50:22] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:56:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:56:31] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:57:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:58:17] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:02:36] *** blabla has joined the room
[20:04:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:05:20] *** fp-tester shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[20:06:54] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[20:07:21] *** daniel has left the room
[20:07:50] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[20:07:58] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[20:09:51] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:09:58] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:10:15] *** jubalh has joined the room
[20:10:29] *** tux shows as "online"
[20:11:02] *** Valerian has joined the room
[20:11:14] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:11:33] *** Valerian has left the room
[20:14:20] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[20:15:16] *** Valerian has joined the room
[20:17:04] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:17:21] *** jubalh has left the room
[20:17:30] *** jubalh has joined the room
[20:17:32] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:17:34] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:17:58] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "sssssttttt! my computer fell asleep"
[20:23:33] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:23:36] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:24:19] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:30:57] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:31:46] *** daniel has left the room
[20:31:50] *** daniel has joined the room
[20:32:11] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:32:37] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[20:37:24] *** Valerian has left the room
[20:42:11] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:42:37] *** daniel shows as "online"
[20:43:19] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[20:47:17] *** Guus has left the room
[20:48:09] *** uc shows as "online"
[20:49:00] *** winfried shows as "online"
[20:49:35] *** Valerian has joined the room
[20:50:06] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:50:08] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:54:20] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[21:00:16] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:00:16] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:02:02] *** valo has joined the room
[21:03:48] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[21:03:54] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:05:49] *** winfried shows as "online"
[21:07:37] *** Guus has left the room
[21:07:44] *** winfried has left the room
[21:08:05] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:09:37] *** Guus has left the room
[21:09:40] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:13:04] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:13:04] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[21:19:08] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:19:08] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[21:20:40] *** waqas has joined the room
[21:21:53] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:34:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:37:21] *** fp-tester shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[21:37:46] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[21:48:07] *** emxp has left the room
[21:51:21] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:52:59] *** SamWhited has left the room
[21:53:43] *** zinid has left the room
[21:59:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:00:25] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:00:29] *** jjrh has joined the room
[22:00:40] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:00:50] *** jjrh has joined the room
[22:01:09] *** goffi has left the room
[22:01:38] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:01:42] *** Guus has left the room
[22:01:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:01:58] *** jjrh has joined the room
[22:02:07] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:03:10] *** jjrh has joined the room
[22:04:21] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:04:41] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:05:04] *** andrey.g has left the room
[22:07:21] *** valo has joined the room
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[22:11:26] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:11:40] *** jjrh has joined the room
[22:13:49] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[22:14:41] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:21:01] *** Alex has left the room
[22:21:21] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:24:21] *** Valerian has left the room
[22:24:26] *** Valerian has joined the room
[22:24:32] *** Valerian has left the room
[22:25:55] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:26:40] *** valo has joined the room
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[22:33:24] *** Valerian has joined the room
[22:40:33] *** Valerian has left the room
[22:40:54] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[22:42:24] *** Alex has joined the room
[22:43:29] *** Valerian has joined the room
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[22:47:53] *** daniel has left the room
[22:50:35] *** jubalh has left the room
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[22:57:31] *** valo has left the room
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[23:02:09] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[23:09:12] *** valo has joined the room
[23:22:22] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:22:24] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:27:48] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[23:30:53] *** Lance has left the room
[23:38:50] *** Zash has left the room
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[23:39:56] *** lumi has left the room
[23:45:46] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:46:52] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[23:51:39] *** Alex shows as "online"
[23:56:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:56:20] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[23:58:08] *** daniel has left the room
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