Friday, September 29, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:05:50] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[10:05:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[10:24:35] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:27:41] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[10:46:11] *** pep. shows as "online"
[10:47:12] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[10:47:36] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[10:49:13] *** jubalh shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[10:59:55] *** intosi shows as "dnd"
[11:00:20] *** intosi shows as "dnd"
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[11:11:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:12:21] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:13:29] <jonasw> moparisthebest, there’s always git commit --allow-empty
[11:13:34] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:13:40] <jonasw> Guus, merge the new favicon? :)
[11:15:30] *** Martin shows as "online"
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[11:52:11] <Guus> jonasw: wilco
[11:52:20] <Guus> was giving others some time to react
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[12:03:51] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[12:10:55] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[12:14:40] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[12:14:57] <jonasw> \o/
[12:15:19] <jonasw> hm, firefox doesn’t show a favicon anymore
[12:15:41] <jonasw> ah, now it does
[12:15:54] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[12:16:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:18:30] <edhelas> you can see the difference on the favicon ? :D
[12:18:37] <jonasw> sure
[12:18:44] <jonasw> my tabs have dark background
[12:18:50] <jonasw> the new favicon has transparent background
[12:18:58] <jonasw> instead of white
[12:19:24] <edhelas> :)
[12:20:06] <mathieui> indeed
[12:22:17] *** Martin has joined the room
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[12:26:55] <Guus> Yeah, the missing white square is quite visible
[12:27:02] <Guus> (as is the alignment change)
[12:27:51] <Guus> Supposedly, this now looks good if you drag/drop the address as a tile in your favorite brand of touchscreen device.
[12:27:53] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:27:58] <Guus> (but I didn't check for that)
[12:28:28] <Zash> I get 404 on https://xmpp.org/favicon-16x16.png and https://xmpp.org/favicon-32x32.png
[12:28:41] <Zash> but https://xmpp.org/favicon.ico seems to exist
[12:30:08] <Guus> ah, those are likely missing redirects
[12:30:21] <Guus> we keep those in https://xmpp.org/icons/favicon-16x16.png etc
[12:30:41] <Guus> (unsure why)
[12:33:25] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[12:36:22] <Guus> that's odd. It appears to be a pelican-based redirect?
[12:36:43] <Guus> Simply fixing the template to have the correct paths seems more sensible to me.
[12:37:53] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[12:43:16] <Guus> https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/371 should fix it
[12:43:25] <Guus> anyone want to have a quick look?
[12:44:50] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[12:46:44] <Guus> hmmm, I might've jumped the gun there
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[12:48:56] *** intosi shows as "dnd"
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[12:56:49] <jonasw> I don’t think that’ll work with pelican
[12:56:54] <jonasw> you need to declare static directories
[12:57:03] <jonasw> and declaring content as static won’t work/blow up everything
[12:58:09] <jonasw> now all we need to do is to find out why the XEP list is incomplete
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[13:02:09] <Guus> jonasw: Yeah, i found that myself. I've revoked that PR, and created (and merged) another
[13:02:26] <Guus> I'll need to leave in 25 minutes, with many things to do until then.
[13:02:41] <Guus> I'm afraid you're on your own for the XEP list for today
[13:03:02] <jonasw> I see
[13:03:08] <jonasw> meh, I was hoping it would magically work
[13:03:15] <jonasw> that XEP list still frightens me
[13:03:28] <Guus> I can imagine
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[13:11:14] <jonasw> I do not understand how that is run in docker at all. the docker build never invokes buildCompleteWebsite.sh
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[13:19:33] <Guus> jonasw: I'm finding that the extensions root points to a temp dir
[13:19:39] <Guus> where the initial crash recovery took place
[13:19:43] <Guus> want me to remove that real quick?
[13:20:50] <jonasw> dooont
[13:20:54] <jonasw> I bet that file isn’t built
[13:21:08] <jonasw> that’d explain what I’m (not) seeing in the xmpp.org repository
[13:21:15] <jonasw> the built script is not invoked at all, if you remove that we won’t have any list
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[13:21:20] <jonasw> the build script is not invoked at all, if you remove that we won’t have any list
[13:21:39] <jonasw> (now at least it makes sense that I don’t find the invocation of the build script, thanks for taking a look)
[13:21:53] <jonasw> I’ll then figure out a cheap way to generate the XEP table with the docker things
[13:22:47] <Guus> ok. it's line 83-85 in the xmpp.org nginx config file on eos. Any iteamer should be able to help you
[13:22:53] <jonasw> thanks
[13:22:56] <Guus> I'll be offline during the weekend
[13:22:59] <jonasw> okay
[13:23:05] <jonasw> have fun
[13:23:06] <Guus> well, on mobile
[13:23:13] <Guus> tx
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[14:30:51] <Flow> Tobias: ping about https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/508#issuecomment-331070510
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[18:01:30] <Flow> Ge0rG: How is "Battery saving (CSI) and push have different rules again" a problem?
[18:01:47] <Ge0rG> Flow: it's a matter of consistency
[18:02:09] <Ge0rG> Flow: also, nobody quite knows which rules to apply for push and csi
[18:02:29] <Flow> What would be better if they had consisten rules? Besides CSI deliberately specifies no strict rules at all (which is a good thing IMHO)
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[18:03:07] <MattJ> Glad someone agrees with me :)
[18:03:22] <Flow> I mean it's not an easy thing to answer. It's one of the fields where experience from running code really matters
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[18:04:05] <Flow> And something we eventually don't have to solve together with all the other more important and relevant issues you mention
[18:04:21] <dwd> Agreed. It's also not an easy thing to specify, and unclear what the interop failure by not doing so might be.
[18:05:00] <dwd> ie, it's a QoI issue. Some servers might be "better" (or at least more suitable for the client application), but everything should work one way or another eventually.
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[18:07:01] <Ge0rG> Flow: https://prosody.im/issues/issue/973 and check mod_csi_battery_saver source code for the many exceptions
[18:08:26] <Flow> Ge0rG: I fully aggree that it's important that we research working rules for CSI and Push. I just wanted to say that I don't think that those rules are necessarly the same, and that it's not an issue we should focus on right now
[18:08:52] <MattJ> Ge0rG, a couple of notes on that: it's still experimental code, and that report from you is good and healthy so we can improve the rules
[18:08:55] <Ge0rG> Flow: I never claimed I have the solutions
[18:09:13] <MattJ> The alternative would have been encoding all these rules into the XEP without prior experience
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[18:09:32] <Flow> Ge0rG: I would never insinuate you to have solutions ;)
[18:09:34] <MattJ> and once encoded, never being able to iterate on them and innovate
[18:10:06] <Flow> I do wonder if Session 2.0 and Bind2/SASL2 are two distinct steps into the right direction
[18:10:23] <Flow> (but maybe I should read the slides to the end)
[18:10:45] <Ge0rG> Flow: I'm pretty sure that CSI and push have the same underlying principles
[18:11:09] <Flow> Maybe, maybe not
[18:11:49] <Flow> Hrm, Message Routing 2.0 sounds a lot like XMPP 2.0
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[18:12:55] <Ge0rG> Flow: we decided to rename XMPP 2 into MR 2 to show it's not a complete reinvention of everything
[18:13:17] <Flow> Probably a good idea
[18:14:27] <Ge0rG> dwd: "everything should work one way or another eventually." is something I'd rather like to avoid, because then we'll end up with even more hairy corner cases.
[18:15:45] <Flow> Ge0rG: What happens in MR 2.0 with messages send to a full JID which is unavailable?
[18:16:21] <Flow> And is MR 2.0 also signled on s2s links?
[18:16:27] <Flow> *signaled
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[18:16:44] <Ge0rG> Flow: MR2 should be also signalled on s2s, yeah. And messages are errored back
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[18:17:06] <Ge0rG> s2s MR2 will just follow the same semantics, and convert to MR1 clients
[18:17:39] <dwd> Ge0rG, CSI explicitly is not allowed to change the semantics of the stream, only introduce delay.
[18:18:27] <Ge0rG> dwd: I'm not sure what you are talking of
[18:22:58] <Flow> dwd: BTW I've published a new version of compare-and-publish and send a mail to standards@, not sure if you saw it yet. As always, your feedback is appreciated.
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[18:25:32] <Ge0rG> MattJ: I'm okay with the rules being worded as MAY everywhere, as long as they are comprehensive according to current state of the art, and not the mess we have in 0280 now
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[18:26:10] <Flow> I don't think the CSI and Carbons situation is comparable
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[18:28:27] <Ge0rG> Flow: I'm talking about bad wording.
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[18:33:31] <Ge0rG> Flow: and yeah, session2 and bind2 are distinct steps
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[19:08:25] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[19:09:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:09:09] *** daniel shows as "online"
[19:09:21] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:10:02] *** fp-tester shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[19:13:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[19:29:08] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[19:31:53] *** daniel has left the room
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[19:42:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:43:14] *** pep. shows as "online"
[19:45:42] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[19:45:47] *** Alex shows as "online"
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[19:54:01] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[19:54:43] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:55:14] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:55:47] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[19:56:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[20:10:11] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
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[20:14:26] *** Alex shows as "online"
[20:15:40] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:16:02] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[20:22:40] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
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[20:25:40] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[20:35:32] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:35:52] *** McKael shows as "online"
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[20:48:59] *** Zash shows as "online"
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[20:58:21] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:58:34] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[21:03:02] *** McKael shows as "online"
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[21:08:21] *** jubalh shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[21:09:08] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[21:14:17] *** pep. shows as "online"
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[21:18:23] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:19:38] *** daniel has left the room
[21:19:43] *** daniel shows as "online"
[21:21:09] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:26:11] *** valo has joined the room
[21:26:49] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:27:29] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:27:32] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[21:29:37] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[21:50:27] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
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[21:52:14] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:52:28] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:02:28] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:02:29] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:02:32] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:02:37] *** lovetox has joined the room
[22:03:05] *** daniel has left the room
[22:03:07] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:03:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:04:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:06:48] *** goffi has left the room
[22:06:49] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:08:40] *** daniel has left the room
[22:08:46] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:09:01] *** pep. has left the room
[22:11:31] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[22:11:50] *** daniel has left the room
[22:12:02] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:13:26] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:14:23] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:14:23] *** daniel has left the room
[22:14:30] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[22:17:05] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[22:19:55] *** jubalh shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:21:05] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[22:22:48] *** Valerian has left the room
[22:22:54] *** pep. shows as "online"
[22:23:55] *** lovetox has left the room
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[22:27:28] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:27:29] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[22:30:33] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[22:34:44] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[22:39:09] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:40:52] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[22:41:17] *** sonny has joined the room
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[22:43:51] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:44:04] *** Alex has left the room
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[22:46:04] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[22:48:27] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:48:29] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:48:45] *** Zash has left the room
[22:48:46] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:48:48] *** Zash shows as "online"
[22:49:45] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[22:51:26] *** lumi has left the room
[22:53:22] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[22:58:13] *** daniel has left the room
[22:58:20] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[22:58:56] *** jere has joined the room
[23:00:04] *** daniel has left the room
[23:00:11] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[23:01:39] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[23:05:08] *** Zash has left the room
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[23:08:07] *** daniel shows as "online"
[23:08:37] *** daniel has left the room
[23:08:42] *** daniel shows as "online"
[23:12:26] *** daniel has left the room
[23:12:32] *** daniel shows as "online"
[23:13:01] *** Guus has left the room
[23:13:07] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[23:15:25] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[23:16:35] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:17:45] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:17:54] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[23:18:34] *** Guus has left the room
[23:18:44] *** jubalh has left the room
[23:19:07] *** uc shows as "online"
[23:19:20] *** blabla has joined the room
[23:19:21] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:21:09] *** andrey.g has joined the room
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[23:26:29] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[23:40:51] *** daniel shows as "online"
[23:43:28] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:43:35] *** daniel has left the room
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