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vanitasvitae
> prime audience for the use of end to end encryption (drug addicts) [...] Sad how scared of authorities he seems to be :(
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jonasw
I think in russia it’s a bit healthy to be scared of authorities......
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mathieui
in western countries too, tbh
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jonasw
mathieui, I think there it’s healthy to have respect of authorities. Scared is another level.
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mathieui
well, not "scared", but "expecting the worse of them at all times"
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Flow
Is there a way to retrieve all newer PubSub items after the item with ID X?
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jonasw
Flow, with RSM possibly
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jonasw
Result Set Management, it’s a XEP
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jonasw
apparently some pubsub services support that
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Flow
I don't found anything in xep59, xep60 and xep313
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jonasw
wouldn’t you give the item ID as minimum and then query everything after that?
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Flow
RSM appears to be more about "paging through the resulting set"
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Flow
not about that particular query
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Flow
it is not necessarly clear that the RSM IDs are the same as PubSub item IDs.
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jonasw
yeah
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jonasw
I’ve seen them differing, too
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MattJ
I think that's what https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html#sect-idm139955456388768 was for
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intosi
MAM ids != PubSub item IDs. If only because those are not guaranteed to be unique.
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Flow
too many IDs ;/
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Ge0rG
Flow: that's what I said, recently.
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Holger
Flow: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0312.html
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Ge0rG
Flow: but you didn't like it :(
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Flow
Ge0rG: out of context
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Holger
Flow: Not sure (where) that's implemented, though.
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intosi
On any given service, only (node id, item id) needs to uniquely point to an item. But you can republish an item with the same ID, which would defeat the purpose of the id in MAM.
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Ge0rG
Flow: "too many IDs" is true irregardless of context.
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Holger
Flow: Ah nonsense, that only works with a timestamp.
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Flow
So there is no way to catch up on pubsub items while offline, presuambly because the assumption is that you will get the notifications about new items also while offline?
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Holger
Hmm well 0312 does somewhat try to provide that, no?
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Flow
I really start to dislike xep0060. Not only is there no way to reliable get the publisher's JID, you also can't do the simplest queries…
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Kev
That's why someone at the Summit was suggesting using 313 for 60 queries.
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Holger
goffi's PubSub component does MAM, I think.
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vanitasvitae
jonasw, If I want to make changes to JET, shall I make these changes in xep-0391, or inbox/jet?
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Ge0rG
vanitasvitae: inbox/jet should cease to be a thing as soon as it's got a number
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vanitasvitae
okay :)
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jonasw
Ge0rG, no, it still exists for historical purposes
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jonasw
vanitasvitae, updates against xep-0391.xml
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Ge0rG
maybe we could get rid of that, we've got git history after all.
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jonasw
Ge0rG, I think the purpose is to have it on the webserver too
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vanitasvitae
jonasw, I noticed, that the XEP mentions a dependency on 234 (jingle file transfer). Is this necessary? JET should work for other Jingle usecases too, even when a client does not implement 234.
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vanitasvitae
Looks like I added that dependency, when the document was still titled "Jingle Encrypted Transfers"
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jonasw
vanitasvitae, I didn’t add that depedency :)
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jonasw
feel free to modify that
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vanitasvitae
okay
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jonasw
in Experimental, you can as author basically everything✎ -
jonasw
in Experimental, you can do basically everything as author ✏
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jonasw
you just need to preserve compatibility
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vanitasvitae
okay. I should also add revisions, right?
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jonasw
vanitasvitae, you SHOULD, yes. An editor will do that if you don’t.
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jonasw
when you do it, you have the chance to make the revision text as meaningful as possible :)
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vanitasvitae
:D I'll do you the favor :)
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jonasw
if you would follow the spirit of semantic versioning when choosing the next version number, that’d be great
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Flow
So MAM with PubSub only improvement are the query conditions 'start', 'end' and 'with'. But we could specify a PubSub specific (after|before)-pubsub-item-id?
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Zash
Does mam+pubsub mean mam-rsm ids are pubsub ids or?
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Flow
Zash: intosi says no
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Zash
Altho with pubsub ids being user-controlled ... and sometimes always "current", glhf
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Flow
For the same reason I had to invent a new "value" for the "Atomically Compare-And-Publish PubSub Items" XEP
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Flow
(Of course the reasoning is not false, I just think that it is a design flaw that IDs may point to different content, instead of having an <item-retracted/> marker)
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Flow
Zash "always "current""?
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jonasw
Flow, maybe you could first specify your new ID for re-use by different things and then build CAP on top of that?
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Flow
jonasw: I'm not sure if it's of any use
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Zash
Flow: In a bunch of PEP things, the item ID is always the string "current"
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Flow
besides of the compare-and-publish case
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Zash
this https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#impl-singleton
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intosi
Zash: indeed. And just the fact that the Item ID is something the publisher can provide, instead of letting the server guarantee its uniqueness across the service, is enough to invalidate it for MAM id.
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Zash
Yeah
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Zash
Like with message@id
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Zash
Hm, does that mean thaw MAM+PubSub is doomed?
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Flow
Zash: You can still use 'start', 'end' and 'with'
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Zash
Yes
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Flow
And specify further fields for MAM+PubSub like after-pubsub-item-id
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Zash
Does the pubsub service have final say over the item id?
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intosi
MAM with Pubsub has semantics that differ from Pubsub retrieval anyway, as you're likely to get the same itemid more than once in some use cases.
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MattJ
I was never convinced about MAM+pubsub
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Zash
MattJ: Weren't you the one who said "Just use MAM?" back then?
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MattJ
niirc :)
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Zash
I REMEMBER EVERYTHING .. almost
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intosi
I use MAM instead of remembering everything.
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Ge0rG
I use a server-side client with logging.
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MattJ
^
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Ge0rG
MAM is too bumpy.
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Zash
Or you can just forget everything the instant it scrolls off the screen. If it was important then they shouldn't have written it over an ephemeral instant messaging thing! :)
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Nathan
...
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edhelas
we can change the 0060
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edhelas
it's not like we have many Pubsub + MAM implementation in the wild :p
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Nathan
are there any impacts of MAM?
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Zash
Impacts?