Tuesday, October 10, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[00:09:08] <Nathan> What I tried to say was what happens when MAM is implemented to a server?
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[00:43:12] <Zash> Assuming there's an accompanying server-side message archive, then users can query it.
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[07:06:26] <zinid> guys, when pubsub#publish-options form definition will be fixed?
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[07:16:39] <zinid> or, if everyone is lazy doing this, where can I find definitions of every fields of pubsub#publish-options form
[07:17:45] <zinid> I recall Push, Persistent Storage, what else?
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[07:23:34] <jonasw> zinid, make a PR? ;-)
[07:24:16] <zinid> but I'm lazy
[07:24:46] <Flow> zinid: what is broken?
[07:26:04] <Flow> Anyway, I wonder if MIX shouldn't really be PubSub2. Persistent group chat requires PubSub at the lowest level, MIX could provide that, while additionally fixing PubSub for everyone else (while keeping the old spec around)
[07:26:12] <zinid> Flow: pubsub#publish-options doesn't define pubsub#persist_items defined in XEP-0223 and 'secret' (without pubsub# ???) defined in XEP-0357
[07:26:53] <Flow> define where? in xep60? don't we have a registry for that?
[07:26:58] <zinid> yes
[07:27:03] <zinid> in xep60
[07:27:18] <zinid> I have no idea what "having a registry" means
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[07:27:45] <zinid> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#registrar-formtypes-publish
[07:28:06] <edhelas> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15437448
[07:28:13] <Flow> zinid, this one I think: https://xmpp.org/registrar/formtypes.html#http:--jabber.org-protocol-pubsubpublish-options
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[07:29:09] <zinid> still not defined there ;)
[07:29:41] <Flow> right, PRs welcome 😉
[07:29:55] <zinid> also, this registry is unusable, it doesn't define possible values of pubsub#access_model
[07:30:16] <Flow> zinid, it just defines the fild name, everything else is written in the defining XEP
[07:30:26] <Flow> field name, type and description
[07:30:28] <zinid> ok
[07:30:46] <zinid> so should be fixed both XEP-0060 definition and the registry?
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[07:32:18] <Flow> zinid, I found persist_items in the registry. what else is missing?
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[07:33:16] <Flow> An 'secret' from the push xep
[07:34:06] <Flow> Seems like 'push#secret' would be more idiomatic, also xep357 doesn't have a registry submission for that
[07:34:14] <Flow> If i recall correctly, Kev wanted to take of xep357
[07:34:19] <Flow> *take over
[07:34:25] <zinid> Flow: persist_items should be defined in every form where it's used, just like pubsub#access_model (it's defined in several forms)
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[07:34:56] <Flow> what are the other forms where persist_items is used besides node_config?
[07:35:11] <zinid> publish_options?
[07:35:34] <zinid> see XEP-0223
[07:36:36] <zinid> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0223.html#store
[07:36:37] <zinid> example 4
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[07:37:31] <zinid> possibly in others, dunno
[07:38:33] <Flow> I'm not sure if it's righ to use persist_items with publish-options
[07:38:57] <Flow> like access_model it appears more like a per node thing, not per item
[07:39:22] <Flow> could it be that ex1 in xep223 is wrong?
[07:39:31] <jonasw> Flow, no, that was discusesd on the ML
[07:39:48] <Flow> jonasw, ahh, must have missed that, do you have a pointer?
[07:39:53] <jonasw> nobody objected to the interpretation that <publish-options/> is a precondition
[07:39:54] <jonasw> will do
[07:40:15] <Flow> ahh, it's used as precondition
[07:40:40] <Flow> then it probably makes sense that it doesn't appear in publish-options's registry
[07:41:00] <Flow> now I remember that there was a discussion around that
[07:41:42] <Flow> ahh and xep60 reads like preconditions must also be registered
[07:42:07] <zinid> everything should be registered, even if XEP doesn't say that
[07:42:24] <zinid> because this form definition can be used by automatic validation (I do this in ejabberd)
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[07:43:08] <jonasw> still looking for the discussion, hang on
[07:43:25] <Flow> jonasw, no worries, I think it was daniel who brought it up
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[07:43:44] <Guus> any French people around?
[07:44:01] <jonasw> Flow, https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-May/032631.html
[07:44:01] <jonasw> got it
[07:44:04] <mimi89999> Moi
[07:44:23] <jonasw> yes, preconditions must be registered to define the meaning of the precondition
[07:44:33] <Guus> in a certificate, what's the most appropriate value for "state or Province Name" for Paris?
[07:44:57] <Flow> Guus: does anyone care about the value of that field?
[07:45:02] <Guus> Île-de-France? Nothing?
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[07:45:24] <mimi89999> Keep that empty. Nobody cares.
[07:45:27] <Guus> Flow: I don't want to find out, which is why I'm asking for the most appropriate value :)
[07:45:30] <Guus> kk
[07:45:56] <mimi89999> But probably it is that... See other certs...
[07:46:07] <mimi89999> The one of OVH...
[07:46:08] <Guus> (I don't know of any other certs)
[07:46:17] <Guus> oh, paris probably has a website...
[07:46:55] <jonasw> this is how the gandi.net certificate looks:
CN = www.gandi.net
OU = COMODO EV SSL
OU = Ops
O = Gandi SAS
Object Identifier (2 5 4 9) = 63-65 Boulevard Massena
L = Paris
ST = Paris
Object Identifier (2 5 4 17) = 75013
C = FR
Object Identifier (2 5 4 15) = Private Organization
Object Identifier (1 3 6 1 4 1 311 60 2 1 3) = FR
Object Identifier (2 5 4 5) = 423 093 459 00042
[07:47:02] <jonasw> so apparently it’s simply "Paris"?
[07:47:17] <mimi89999> Lol
[07:47:40] <Guus> thanks guys :)
[07:48:10] <mimi89999> Certbot keeps that empty. Really nobody cares.
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[07:49:30] <zinid> Flow: whatever, I generate code from this form now: https://github.com/processone/xmpp/blob/master/specs/pubsub_publish_options.xdata
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[07:50:37] <zinid> secret without prefix 'pubsub#' looks odd though
[07:51:19] <Flow> I think 'push#secret' would be more to the point
[07:51:29] <jonasw> I agree
[07:51:38] <Flow> zinid, would be greate if you did an PR for the registry too
[07:51:52] <zinid> can we change the filed name?
[07:51:55] <Flow> https://github.com/xsf/registrar
[07:52:05] <Flow> zinid: Not without a namespace bump I fear
[07:52:19] <zinid> then let's don't do this
[07:52:31] <zinid> we have the same in some MUC forms, this is not a major problem
[07:52:47] <jonasw> we should have errata sections in XEPs where we can note things for the next Namespace bump
[07:53:05] <jonasw> re registrar: I bet that stuff is currently not updated on the website
[07:53:17] <Flow> jonasw, I once started https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XEP_and_RFC_Remarks
[07:53:40] <jonasw> yeah, nobody will look there when preparing a PR against a xep :)
[07:54:38] <Ge0rG> jonasw [09:56]:
> we should have errata sections in XEPs where we can note things for the next Namespace bump
There used to be wiki pages for each xep containing that information
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[08:09:27] <Guus> Who's going to be at the GSoC menter summit this weekend? Arc, Daniel, Edwin and me - anyone else?
[08:09:49] <Guus> we should meet up. I'll at least bring some stickers :)
[08:10:12] <Guus> Edwin and me are in the Sheraton
[08:11:21] <mimi89999> Guus: Bring stickers *to* XMPP.
[08:12:28] <Guus> ?
[08:12:42] <intosi> Guus: +1 on the stickers.
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[08:15:45] <mimi89999> > I'll at least bring some stickers :)
😉
[08:16:11] <mimi89999> The requests for adding stickers...
[08:16:33] <intosi> mimi89999: ah.
[08:18:47] <Guus> Please note that my two-year-old kept me up all night, and I'm very likely to miss puns, sarcasm, and any other subtilities today.
[08:19:45] <mimi89999> Guus: Take some sleep then...
[08:22:24] <Guus> mimi89999: customers, deadlines.
[08:22:55] <Guus> my wife is actually very jealous of me going to the GSoC meeting. Not because of the trip, but because of the four days of hotel stay without the kids :)
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[08:23:10] <Guus> four nights of uninterrupted sleep... sheer bliss.
[08:24:25] <intosi> Four nights of fighting jetlag ;)
[08:24:48] <Guus> intosi: that probably sets in only after I return
[08:25:06] <mimi89999> 2x no sleep...
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[08:25:55] <intosi> I'm usually much better going west to east than the other way around. Getting up early is easy, sleeping in is something I'm terrible at.
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[08:28:56] <Guus> I'll find out in a couple of days
[08:29:13] <Guus> oh, at least 4 guys from Jitsi will be there too
[08:29:24] <Guus> they're in the other hotel though
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[09:39:55] <Flow> Guus: If you meet Ingo, then please say hello from me
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[09:49:32] <Guus> Flow: not sure if he'll be there. by-the-by: the Jitsi guys all but finished merging all of his Smack 3->4 miration work.
[09:49:53] <Flow> \o/
[09:50:43] <Guus> it was a lot of work on Ingo's part, but the merge itself was relatively painless, from what I understand. There was one issue with certificate acepptance that they quickly resolved.
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[09:55:59] <Flow> not that it matters: but it appears to be not yet merged: https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi/tree/smack4-2
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[10:05:02] <Guus> that's the desktop app I think? I think they were referring to their backend stuff.
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[10:06:56] <Flow> ahh, k, great
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[19:27:19] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:32:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:32:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:37:54] *** andrey.g has joined the room
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[19:40:23] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:40:24] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[19:40:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:42:11] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[19:42:12] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:42:17] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[19:44:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:44:18] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[19:44:19] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[19:45:35] *** winfried shows as "online"
[19:46:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:46:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:48:56] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:49:09] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:50:47] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:55:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[19:56:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[19:58:48] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[20:00:33] *** stefandxm has left the room
[20:02:08] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:03:09] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:04:12] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:04:26] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:09:29] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:11:33] *** jere has left the room
[20:11:39] *** jere has joined the room
[20:18:31] *** Alex has left the room
[20:20:06] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[20:22:34] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:24:01] *** jubalh has joined the room
[20:25:35] *** McKael shows as "online"
[20:29:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:29:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:31:53] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[20:35:15] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:40:34] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[20:51:54] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[20:52:04] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[20:52:05] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[20:52:19] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:54:10] *** jubalh has left the room
[20:55:36] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:57:20] *** alacer has joined the room
[21:03:15] *** xnyhps has left the room
[21:03:18] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:03:59] *** zinid has left the room
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[21:06:02] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:06:03] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:06:04] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:06:39] *** zinid shows as "dnd"
[21:06:55] *** zinid has left the room
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[21:08:00] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:08:21] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:08:23] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:10:00] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:11:30] *** efrit has joined the room
[21:15:57] *** zinid has left the room
[21:16:03] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:16:04] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:18:18] *** jere has joined the room
[21:23:18] *** zinid has joined the room
[21:23:32] *** zinid shows as "online"
[21:26:24] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:30:09] *** nyco has left the room
[21:30:35] *** nyco shows as "online"
[21:32:03] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:32:26] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:34:30] *** jubalh has left the room
[21:34:46] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:34:50] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:35:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:35:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:35:39] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:35:58] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:36:36] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:37:00] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:37:14] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:37:27] *** jubalh has left the room
[21:38:02] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:40:39] *** pep. has left the room
[21:40:40] *** pep. has left the room
[21:40:44] *** pep. has joined the room
[21:40:44] *** pep. shows as "online"
[21:40:49] *** pep. has left the room
[21:40:52] *** pep. has joined the room
[21:42:29] *** pep. shows as "online"
[21:43:57] *** Link Mauve shows as "online"
[21:44:52] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:45:09] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:45:40] *** emxp has left the room
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[21:46:56] *** efrit has left the room
[21:47:22] *** lovetox has left the room
[21:53:34] *** SamWhited has left the room
[21:56:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:57:31] *** zinid has left the room
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[21:59:24] *** Guus has left the room
[22:01:06] *** Guus has joined the room
[22:01:21] *** Guus has left the room
[22:02:49] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:04:24] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:05:38] *** Zash has left the room
[22:05:47] *** Zash shows as "away"
[22:09:38] *** Guus has joined the room
[22:10:14] *** Zash has left the room
[22:10:23] *** Zash shows as "away"
[22:12:17] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:12:44] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:14:01] *** Guus has left the room
[22:17:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:19:30] *** Guus has joined the room
[22:19:52] *** mathieui has left the room
[22:20:13] *** mathieui has joined the room
[22:20:23] *** pep. has left the room
[22:20:27] *** pep. shows as "online"
[22:22:59] *** Guus has left the room
[22:26:08] *** winfried has left the room
[22:26:08] *** winfried has joined the room
[22:27:17] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:28:18] *** Wiktor has joined the room
[22:30:01] *** Valerian has joined the room
[22:32:52] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:33:13] *** Guus has joined the room
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[22:37:19] *** alacer has joined the room
[22:38:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:43:33] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[22:43:34] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[22:43:54] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[22:50:02] *** sonny has joined the room
[22:51:43] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:51:47] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:57:03] *** waqas has joined the room
[22:59:54] *** stefandxm has left the room
[23:07:11] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:12:45] *** Guus has left the room
[23:15:53] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:15:55] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:18:54] *** waqas has left the room
[23:19:52] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:21:37] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:31:34] *** Guus has left the room
[23:43:08] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:51:17] *** Lance has joined the room
[23:51:17] *** Lance shows as "online"
[23:52:58] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[23:56:09] *** Lance has left the room