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Flow
hmm, I didn't receive pep.'s mail to standards@
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Flow
ahh, dwd points out it's a DMARC issue
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jonasw
the list needs reconfiguring then
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jonasw
mailman can re-write DMARC-affected emails to let them pass filters downstream, at the cost of usability
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pep.
Flow: ah right it's probably me
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pep.
I need to fix it
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dwd
jonasw, No, it's doing exactly what it should. DMARC is broken, that's all.
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pep.
My dmarc settings are too strict
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pep.
Dkim is borken and I need to fix it
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dwd
DMARC is just broken.
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pep.
Why?
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dwd
Created by the operators of Google Groups, Yahoo Groups, Facebook, etc... They had no interest in making mailing lists work, it didn't fit their business model.
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dwd
And they did it outside the IETF and then forced it on everyone as a fait accompli.
- dwd is using a French phrase in celebration of being in France. I think.
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Zash
Wasn't DKIM a Yahoo thing too?
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pep.
Dmarc is not the spec issue here, it's just a reporting standard
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pep.
Well + other niceties
- Ge0rG gabs popcorn
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Zash
pep.: Every time I read the DMARC spec it tells me that DKIM and SPF are both mandatory to deploy.
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pep.
the issue*
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pep.
Zash: no they're not
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pep.
But yes you should probably
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Zash
I should not
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Zash
I tried
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pep.
If you want dmarc to be useful
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Zash
Mailing lists all borked
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Kev
DMARC can be useful? :p
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pep.
MLs are borked indeed :/
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Zash
pep.: That's not how blame works on the internet!
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pep.
But I would say it's more of a dkim issue
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pep.
You require so much energy from me at not even 9am.. Still in the bed
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Zash
While on the topic of email. dwd, your email where you told pep. about the dmarc issue, the text version is bad.
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dwd
Quite possibly. Dodgy android gmail client.
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Zash
It's pretty much identical to the email replied to
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Zash
Took me forever to figure out that the text was quoted, because the only sign of that was a <div> in the html version.
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dwd
I really need to switch to Fastmail or something. Partly inertia (I'd need to switch domain) and partly cost.
- Ge0rG is selfhosting email. Not as bad as some people claim.
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Zash
Apparently the trick to self-hosting is getting a gmail account.
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pep.
I need to mitigate the spam problem a bit, that's the most annoying
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pep.
Someday I'll install a spam filter
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Ge0rG
the XMPP spam problem?
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pep.
Mail
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jonasw
spamassassin + imapsieve to train it
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jonasw
but ECHAN
-
Zash
ENOMEM
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zinid
I personally don't want to mess with spam filters so I chose to use gmail
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pep.
jonasw: I already have sieve yep, I just need to take time for spamassassin
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Wiktor
DMARC has a FAQ entry for mailing lists ( https://dmarc.org/wiki/FAQ#I_operate_a_mailing_list_and_I_want_to_interoperate_with_DMARC.2C_what_should_I_do.3F ) one of suggestions is just to use mailing list in the From header and move sender to Reply-To header, some mailing lists have options like that (e.g. https://wiki.list.org/DEV/DMARC )
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jonasw
Wiktor, yes, it sucks
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Wiktor
jonasw: I don't know, I'm not using Mailman but thanks for info!
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jonasw
you can do that with mailman, but since it mangles the From it makes lists harder to read
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Zash
Aren't you supposed to set Sender?
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jonasw
depends, I think
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jonasw
some operate on the sender, some on From, some on SMTP-Mail-From
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Wiktor
DMARC only cares about From, if you mangle that it's DMARC-OK :)
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goffi
https://blog.agayon.be/sat_jp.html ==> nice blog post about SàT CLI frontend, if anywone want's do have an idea of its abilities.
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Zash
Mmmm, what's this https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-curdle-cms-eddsa-signatures-08
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dwd
Wiktor, Please read RFC 5322. From is the author. DMARC is in the wrong here.
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Zash
-rfc 5322
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Bunneh
Zash: Internet Message Format. P. Resnick, Ed.. October 2008. (Updated by RFC6854) (Status: DRAFT STANDARD) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322
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pep.
dwd, I see your point (re DMARC)
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pep.
DKIM is not helping though is it?
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pep.
(this morning's discussion, and your remark to Wiktor)
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Wiktor
Well the issue is mailing list modifying email content or/and headers, appending footers, adding mailing list id to subject. If the email was not modified it'd pass DKIM checks and DMARC would be happy. Then you can have your From just fine :)