Friday, October 20, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
October
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
            1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
         
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:02:02] *** dwd has left the room
[00:03:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[00:05:26] *** dwd has left the room
[00:05:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[00:09:13] *** Arc has joined the room
[00:09:23] *** dwd has left the room
[00:10:37] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:10:46] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:11:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[00:15:23] *** dwd has left the room
[00:27:02] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:28:45] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:29:08] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:29:22] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:29:40] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[00:29:43] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:29:46] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:30:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[00:31:05] *** jere has joined the room
[00:31:40] *** stefandxm has left the room
[00:32:33] *** Tobias has joined the room
[00:34:44] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:35:15] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:39:12] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[00:47:11] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:47:14] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:50:56] *** dwd has left the room
[00:51:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[00:54:38] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[00:54:38] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[00:55:17] *** arc has left the room
[00:55:18] *** arc has joined the room
[00:56:19] *** arc has left the room
[00:56:25] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:56:29] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[00:56:29] *** Arc shows as "online"
[00:56:30] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:57:23] *** dwd has left the room
[01:00:51] *** jjrh has left the room
[01:00:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[01:01:29] *** arc has joined the room
[01:03:34] *** Guus has left the room
[01:05:04] *** jere has left the room
[01:05:10] *** jere has joined the room
[01:05:21] *** Guus has joined the room
[01:07:18] *** lovetox has left the room
[01:10:18] *** SamWhited has left the room
[01:16:26] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[01:21:47] *** Syndace has left the room
[01:21:51] *** Syndace has joined the room
[01:24:38] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:24:38] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:24:56] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:24:56] *** Arc shows as "online"
[01:33:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[01:34:30] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:34:30] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:34:33] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[01:34:33] *** Arc shows as "online"
[01:43:02] *** dwd has left the room
[01:43:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[01:50:49] *** Valerian has left the room
[01:54:23] *** dwd has left the room
[01:55:26] *** daniel has left the room
[01:57:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[01:58:16] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[01:58:18] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[01:58:55] <pep.> When are we going to get out of the loop :(
[02:00:25] *** Guus has left the room
[02:01:46] <moparisthebest> pep.: *Never* muhuhahaha
[02:02:02] <pep.> When are we going to get out of the loop :(
[02:05:32] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[02:09:23] *** Valerian has joined the room
[02:15:01] *** stefandxm has left the room
[02:20:38] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[02:26:00] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:26:00] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:26:51] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[02:26:51] *** Arc shows as "online"
[02:35:08] *** Guus has joined the room
[02:52:05] *** Guus has left the room
[02:53:45] *** nyco has left the room
[02:53:47] *** nyco shows as "online"
[02:54:22] *** Guus has joined the room
[03:01:04] *** Guus has left the room
[03:01:35] *** daniel has joined the room
[03:02:44] *** arc has left the room
[03:02:46] *** arc has joined the room
[03:05:22] *** dwd has left the room
[03:06:37] *** daniel has left the room
[03:08:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[03:10:29] *** Arc has left the room
[03:15:23] *** dwd has left the room
[03:15:25] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[03:15:26] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[03:17:59] *** Guus has joined the room
[03:24:19] *** arc has left the room
[03:24:20] *** arc has joined the room
[03:27:14] *** Guus has left the room
[03:27:38] *** arc has left the room
[03:27:39] *** arc has joined the room
[03:31:29] *** SamWhited has left the room
[03:33:55] *** stefandxm has left the room
[03:37:59] *** Guus has joined the room
[03:41:46] *** Arc has joined the room
[03:54:15] *** Guus has left the room
[03:56:34] *** Guus has joined the room
[04:00:58] *** Valerian has left the room
[04:01:09] *** Valerian has joined the room
[04:01:47] *** Valerian has left the room
[04:02:25] *** Valerian has joined the room
[04:06:19] *** Valerian has left the room
[04:07:54] *** uc has joined the room
[04:24:04] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[04:24:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[04:33:53] *** xnyhps has left the room
[04:36:29] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[04:59:18] *** arc has left the room
[05:03:28] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[05:03:30] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[05:04:38] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:05:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:07:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[05:07:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:08:44] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:12:39] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[05:16:07] *** Arc has left the room
[05:19:01] *** goffi has joined the room
[05:20:32] *** stefandxm has left the room
[05:25:21] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:25:53] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:27:40] *** Arc has joined the room
[05:31:07] *** Kev shows as "online"
[05:31:49] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:31:59] *** dwd has left the room
[05:32:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[05:35:08] *** Guus has left the room
[05:35:10] *** Guus has joined the room
[05:35:10] <zinid> Just deprecate XML, it's insecure
[05:35:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:35:47] *** dwd has left the room
[05:35:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[05:36:04] <MattJ> along with Javascript and SQL
[05:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[05:42:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:44:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:45:07] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:46:04] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:46:41] *** zinid shows as "dnd"
[05:46:56] *** Kev shows as "away"
[05:47:11] <zinid> that would be great
[05:47:14] *** Arc has left the room
[05:47:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[05:54:17] *** daniel has joined the room
[05:54:46] *** SouL shows as "online"
[05:55:04] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[05:58:11] <Zash> And x86
[05:58:34] <Zash> And neurons
[05:59:57] *** daniel has left the room
[06:00:08] *** daniel has joined the room
[06:00:43] <jonasw> Link Mauve, my issue with colors is that they are not portable at all. your choice of colors may be badly readable on my background
[06:00:58] <jonasw> since people tend to forget that I had to block inbound colors on my desktop client.
[06:01:39] <jonasw> I’m not against a color support, but we need to define a way (Ge0rG suggested to support a palette of XEP-0392 colors which applications can then adapt according to XEP-0392 to their backgrounds) which allows to play nice with themes.
[06:01:39] <daniel> jonasw: just set a background color as well
[06:01:46] <jonasw> daniel, yes, that makes things *so* much better :P
[06:01:58] <daniel> Xhtml is perfect. People are just using it wrong
[06:02:08] <daniel> It's the people. Not the protocol
[06:04:09] <jonasw> Link Mauve, re JSON based protocol-break: I think it can be done in a way which makes arbitrary XHTML injection much harder to let happen than with XHTML-Im.
[06:10:26] *** jubalh has joined the room
[06:11:18] <zinid> jonasw: so you think it's worth redoing everything just because the new format will possess less issues? Not everyone agrees with it, that's why this discussion is not going to stop
[06:12:03] <jonasw> zinid, *shrug*. I’d still be okay with the "provide an audited reference implementation for XHTML-IM solution", but I feel that won’t get past SamWhited. I’m trying to compromise here without losing what we can do today.
[06:12:39] <zinid> if SamWhited doesn't pass it that would mean nothing will ever happen
[06:13:01] <zinid> and we're back to the beginning
[06:13:48] *** dwd has left the room
[06:13:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:16:00] *** dwd has left the room
[06:16:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:17:45] *** dwd has left the room
[06:17:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:18:19] *** dwd has left the room
[06:18:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:19:15] *** dwd has left the room
[06:19:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:20:55] *** dwd has left the room
[06:20:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:22:26] *** dwd has left the room
[06:22:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:23:28] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[06:24:22] *** dwd has left the room
[06:24:52] *** Kev shows as "online"
[06:25:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:27:13] *** dwd has left the room
[06:27:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:27:22] *** dwd has left the room
[06:28:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:29:26] *** dwd has left the room
[06:29:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:30:22] *** dwd has left the room
[06:30:35] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[06:30:37] *** ralphm has left the room
[06:32:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:33:22] *** dwd has left the room
[06:35:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:38:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[06:42:19] *** zinid has left the room
[06:42:21] *** Guus has left the room
[06:42:22] *** zinid shows as "online"
[06:42:24] *** Guus has joined the room
[06:43:57] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[06:48:53] *** emxp has joined the room
[06:50:31] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[06:51:34] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[06:51:35] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[06:52:01] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[06:52:07] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[06:52:52] *** McKael shows as "online"
[06:56:18] <Ge0rG> Wow, that discussion.
[06:56:55] <Ge0rG> It seems to be so fundamental, maybe we should question the use of XML as well...
[06:57:12] <jonasw> Ge0rG, you love to pour oil into fires, don’t you?
[06:57:54] <Ge0rG> jonasw: okay, that was a bit harsh. Let's only question session binding and message routing.
[06:58:11] <jonasw> Ge0rG, that sounds good.
[06:58:14] <jonasw> didn’t we do that already?
[06:58:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[06:59:28] <Ge0rG> jonasw: or maybe we need a different approach to the 'database synchronization" thought: XMPP 2.0 is an HTML document that's slowly loading from the server as new messages arrive.
[06:59:47] <Ge0rG> That way we can implement dumb clients in Electron.
[07:00:03] <jonasw> Ge0rG, you’re describing Comet
[07:00:10] <Zash> jonasw: Pouring oil? More like feeding it an optimally mixed solution of pure oxygen and aerosolized oil
[07:00:26] <Ge0rG> Because the server is trustworthy by default, there is no need to cover XSS
[07:00:29] <jonasw> Zash, :)
[07:00:31] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[07:02:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:02:49] <Zash> Yes, trust in the server. We're all trustworthy people making them.
[07:03:22] *** zinid has left the room
[07:03:23] *** zinid shows as "online"
[07:05:58] *** sonny has left the room
[07:06:02] *** sonny has joined the room
[07:07:51] *** Kev shows as "away"
[07:07:59] *** dwd has left the room
[07:08:12] *** stefandxm has left the room
[07:08:19] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[07:09:19] *** zinid has left the room
[07:09:21] *** zinid shows as "online"
[07:09:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:09:46] *** zinid has left the room
[07:09:48] *** zinid shows as "online"
[07:12:21] *** sonny has left the room
[07:12:24] *** sonny has joined the room
[07:12:53] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:13:46] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:13:47] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:15:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[07:16:01] <Ge0rG> Well, problem solved. Back to real work.
[07:16:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:18:10] *** sonny has left the room
[07:18:13] *** sonny has joined the room
[07:18:43] *** sonny has left the room
[07:18:46] *** sonny has joined the room
[07:19:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:19:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:19:18] *** sonny has joined the room
[07:22:59] *** dwd has left the room
[07:23:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:27:22] *** dwd has left the room
[07:29:02] *** sonny has left the room
[07:29:04] *** sonny has joined the room
[07:29:37] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[07:29:47] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[07:32:32] <zinid> Ge0rG: or course we can question the use of XML, because it's shit
[07:32:52] <zinid> now we need to rewrite everything?
[07:33:43] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[07:33:45] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:33:48] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[07:34:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:34:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:35:53] <Zash> Yeah, starting over from scratch is so much fun!
[07:36:10] <pep.> Why dont we use http and json already
[07:36:14] <Ge0rG> Wait, there is a ready-made solution already. Matrix!
[07:36:51] <pep.> Ge0rG, I think we came to the same conclusion
[07:37:26] <zinid> pep.: because jabber was initially designed with flaws: there is no separation between encoding rules and data types, so we cannot simply change encoding rules
[07:37:42] <zinid> I'm talking about it since 2004
[07:38:41] <pep.> zinid: that was sarcastic
[07:39:07] *** sonny has joined the room
[07:39:16] <pep.> If it wasn't obvious enough :)
[07:39:17] <zinid> pep.: right, but that would be possible if xmpp wasn't designed the way it was
[07:39:43] <pep.> Sure, but who would do that :x
[07:40:11] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:40:19] <zinid> matrix has exactly the same problem btw, when json is no longer modern and fancy it will be abandoned
[07:40:56] <Zash> Obviously
[07:42:35] <Ge0rG> So we need to use an established standard that won't vanish. ASN.1!
[07:42:40] <Zash> YES
[07:43:23] <jonasw> AaaaaaaaAAAAAaaaaaAAAaaaaaaaa
[07:43:31] <jonasw> I always get attacks of pain when I read ASN.1, and I don’t even know why.
[07:44:24] <Ge0rG> So recently I started reading that old "Easy introduction into the subset of ASN.1 relevant for [application]", and I gave up after twenty pages.
[07:44:37] <jonasw> lol
[07:44:43] <Zash> jonasw: Spend some time with it. It should turn into a mild itch eventually.
[07:45:33] <Zash> I hope you all read x509guide.txt
[07:45:56] <Steve Kille> ASN.1 is wonderful. MUCH easier to write specs in than XML and compact on the wire
[07:46:18] <Zash> Steve Kille: Which encoding rules? ;)
[07:46:31] <zinid> Steve Kille: the learning curve is too high, that's why they are crying :)
[07:47:27] <jonasw> Steve Kille, reminds me, I (with my editor hat on) would like to fix some XML issues in the MIX XEP at some point. Let me know when that’d work for you so that we don’t produce conflicts.
[07:47:43] <zinid> Zash: why encoding rules would boher an application programmer? You don't need to deal with them directly
[07:49:35] <Steve Kille> jonasw: now would be an excellent time for you to do this. I do not have MIX XEP checked out.
[07:50:11] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[07:50:12] <jonasw> Steve Kille, mhm, right, now won’t work for me though :-). I’ll ask you again when I’m ready (I expected a reply along the lines of "I have some update prepared which I’ll push at some point")
[07:50:39] <Ge0rG> jonasw: you could ask for a time window as well ;)
[07:51:03] <Steve Kille> There are various changes I want to make, but they all need discussion with my co-author
[07:51:11] <jonasw> Ge0rG, indeed; I’m away for a week now though
[07:51:18] <jonasw> so this was probably not the smartest time for me to ask :)
[07:51:48] <Ge0rG> jonasw: you could ask something like "is it okay if I do it in a week" :P
[07:52:10] <jonasw> Ge0rG, in two weeks rather
[07:53:07] <Steve Kille> I have one editorial task, which you are welcome to take on (but I can also do easily) which is to ensure that ALL of the examples use .example (following IETF guidelines)
[07:53:24] <Steve Kille> I got editorial changes forced for:
[07:53:26] <Steve Kille> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kille-ldap-xmpp-schema/
[07:53:40] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[07:53:55] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:54:22] <Steve Kille> jonasw: ping me on MIX editing. I am not expecting to make changes over the next few weeks
[07:54:29] <jonasw> Steve Kille, okay thanks
[07:57:16] <pep.> (What is a white page service?)
[08:02:47] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[08:07:30] <Ge0rG> pep.: a public phone book?
[08:08:19] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:08:48] <pep.> Ohh
[08:08:57] <pep.> That
[08:09:17] *** sonny has left the room
[08:09:20] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:09:21] *** Alex has joined the room
[08:10:22] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:12:27] *** sonny has left the room
[08:12:30] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:12:37] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:13:08] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:14:10] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:18:49] *** tux has joined the room
[08:19:37] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:21:19] *** sonny has left the room
[08:21:23] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:22:29] *** sonny has left the room
[08:22:32] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:23:13] *** sonny has left the room
[08:24:36] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:26:11] *** sonny has left the room
[08:26:14] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:26:32] *** sonny has left the room
[08:27:36] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:27:46] *** ralphm has left the room
[08:28:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:29:15] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:29:16] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:29:39] *** sonny has left the room
[08:29:42] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:31:38] *** sonny has left the room
[08:31:41] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:32:15] *** Guus has left the room
[08:32:17] *** Guus has joined the room
[08:34:19] *** dwd has left the room
[08:34:24] *** alacer has joined the room
[08:34:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:34:32] *** lovetox has joined the room
[08:35:46] *** sonny has left the room
[08:35:52] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:36:24] *** sonny has left the room
[08:36:42] *** sonny has joined the room
[08:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[08:39:39] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[08:39:40] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[08:40:54] *** Kev shows as "online"
[08:41:07] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[08:44:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:44:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:44:20] *** McKael shows as "online"
[08:45:16] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:46:00] *** dwd has left the room
[08:46:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:51:47] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[08:56:28] *** stefandxm has left the room
[08:57:22] *** dwd has left the room
[08:58:09] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[09:00:35] <Ge0rG> I think there is one very important twist missing from the current XHTML-IM vs. markdown vs. body-hints debate: We also need an explicit encoding for Emoji in ASCII form. Some clients will parse `(c)` as a mug of coffee, others as ©. We should standardize how Emoji are to be transmitted and translated.
[09:01:11] <Kev> As unicode. Job done.
[09:01:13] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[09:01:32] <dwd> Ge0rG, A good point to raise, and also Kev's right.
[09:01:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[09:01:44] <Kev> I suggest <no-emoticons xmlns='...'/> as a child element of the message.
[09:01:50] <edhelas> in Unicode � trust
[09:02:10] <Kev> So that recipients know that the sending client doesn't use text emoticons, only unicode emoji.
[09:03:08] <Ge0rG> Kev: in theory, you are right. In practice, it is impossible for a client implementation to figure out which subset of Unicode is supported by its platform.
[09:03:25] *** Alex has left the room
[09:03:42] <Kev> That's ok, in a sense. Clients can e.g. swap out unicode emoji for images locally.
[09:03:46] <Ge0rG> Kev: we could of course define entity caps for a client to show which subset it supports.
[09:03:55] <Kev> I think (much as I hate it) that that's what Swift's going to have to do on Linux, at least, and probably Windows.
[09:04:15] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[09:04:16] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[09:04:25] <Ge0rG> I'm also a proponent of emoji hugification in IM. Because you can't read them at 8x16 pixels.
[09:05:12] <Ge0rG> TIL about emoji CLDR short names: "The CLDR short name for the character or sequence. Short names vary by language, and are from the CLDR data."
[09:06:01] *** Alex has joined the room
[09:06:14] <Ge0rG> 😄 = :glimlaggende_gesig_met_oop_mond_en_glimlaggende_oë:
[09:06:43] <Kev> Or "Bob", to his friends.
[09:06:44] <Ge0rG> (I really like the Slack notation used for Emoji, where you use `:short_name:`)
[09:07:34] <edhelas> until you start to use things like jabber:x:data namespace in your message
[09:07:37] *** Alex has joined the room
[09:07:47] <jonasw> aaand we’re back to the plain text markup story
[09:08:14] <edhelas> personnaly, I think that this discussion is pointless
[09:08:23] <jonasw> edhelas, note though that emoji names are (a) always surrounded by whitespace and (b) not to be used in transport, only in display when no emoji capability is there by the rendering engine
[09:08:26] <Kev> Ge0rG: That's great, but that's a client-side thing, no reason for us not to then transmit as unicode.
[09:08:30] <Zash> Are we going in circles or some kind of 5-dimentional figure 8?
[09:08:35] <dwd> jonasw, What? No, :stuff: is a client-side thing, surely?
[09:08:50] <jonasw> dwd, I sure hope though!
[09:08:52] <edhelas> if we have XHTML-IM security issues, we open tickets in the bugtrackers of the buggy clients, and that's it, end of story
[09:08:53] <jonasw> dwd, I sure hope so!
[09:08:54] <Ge0rG> Actually, Kev is right. Unicode should be the default transport format for Emoji. However, it would be great to have input conversion from ":)" to "😀" etc.
[09:09:08] <Kev> I agree wholeheartedly with that.
[09:09:33] <jonasw> :)
[09:09:41] <jonasw> it’s also lovely how this discussion messes with poezio
[09:09:42] <Zash> Client UX/UI issue?
[09:09:45] <edhelas> remember the Carbons security issue ? did we removed Carbons ? no
[09:09:51] <Ge0rG> Kev: that also means that clients without Emoji support need to keep a mapping table of all Emoji symbols to some other representation, like ASCII
[09:09:53] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[09:10:11] <jonasw> edhelas, one could argue that the vulnerability produced by XSS in XHTML-IM-Web-Clients is worse
[09:10:15] <Kev> Ge0rG: ugly, but sadly true.
[09:10:16] <jonasw> (up to stealing your password)
[09:10:19] <edhelas> we just added a small paragraph, released a security message, fixed all the buggy clients, and that was it
[09:10:25] <Kev> I'm actually tempted to write a XEP, given otherwise I'm busy setting up an AD this morning.
[09:10:39] <jonasw> Kev, oh the pain.
[09:10:42] <edhelas> jonasw define "worse"
[09:10:46] <Ge0rG> Kev: or we use client caps to indicate emoji support, and then the server can automagically translate unicode into :ascii: in outgoing messages!
[09:10:48] <jonasw> setting up LDAP is fun already, I don’t want to know how AD is like
[09:10:51] <dwd> Kev, You need some solid displacement activity.
[09:11:02] <jonasw> edhelas, stealing your password is arguably worse than being able to impersonate peers.
[09:11:04] <Ge0rG> Kev: write an XEP for what?
[09:11:14] <Kev> <no-emoticons xmlns='...'/>
[09:11:15] <edhelas> it's the responsibility of clients and servers devloppers to sanitize properly their I/O
[09:11:23] <jonasw> edhelas, yes, but do we need to make it hard for them?
[09:11:51] <Ge0rG> Kev: how would you handle ":)" with such an XEP marker?
[09:12:02] <Kev> Ge0rG: By rendering ":)"
[09:12:07] <edhelas> it's not "hard" to sanitize, most of those clients didn't even had any kind of security layer
[09:12:12] <Ge0rG> Kev: but that's not what people expect.
[09:12:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:12:16] <jonasw> Ge0rG, on the UI input or when received over the network?
[09:12:28] <jonasw> edhelas, source?
[09:12:32] <Ge0rG> jonasw: in both situations, because backward compatibility!11!
[09:12:36] <jonasw> I personally find @style hard to sanitize. You can’t do that with regexes alone.
[09:12:44] <Kev> Ge0rG: It's the sending client saying to the recipient "I have already done emoji conversion locally, so if there's something that looks like an ASCII emoticon in here, just render it as-is, because it's what the sender intended".
[09:12:49] <jonasw> (I’m pretty sure that the subset of CSS allowed by @style is not regular)
[09:12:56] <edhelas> jonasw if you code a client and simply do .innerHTML = message.body, well you should serously go take some Web dev courses again
[09:13:16] <Ge0rG> Kev: that makes sense to me.
[09:13:16] <jonasw> edhelas, and what if I don’t, but @style contains a background-image with a URL which makes the browser execute javascript?
[09:13:17] <jonasw> it’s a thing.
[09:13:34] <edhelas> seriously you want to reinvent your own markup ?
[09:13:44] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:13:49] <jonasw> edhelas, actually, I’m replaying the arguments of others here.
[09:13:49] <edhelas> looks like some JS hipster project
[09:14:13] <jonasw> my primary goal in this situation is to retain the capability for well-defined rich markup. If that’s by inventing our own rich markup or by providing a solid reference sanitizer for XHTML-IM, I don’t care.
[09:14:21] <dwd> edhelas, Most (decent) frameworks make that hard, but possible. The problem is that none of them make santizing HTML easy. The correct colution for embedding unknown-origin HTML is to enclose it in an iframe, but the problem there si that UX takes a hit.
[09:15:11] <Ge0rG> dwd: is copy&paste of message histories the only UX problem with iframes?
[09:15:24] <jonasw> Ge0rG, scrolling, sizing the iframe, …
[09:15:32] <jonasw> (but copy&paste is the worst, I think)
[09:15:47] <jonasw> and also iframes make me furious, I have to be able to select all the text!
[09:15:50] <Ge0rG> scrolling. ewwww.
[09:16:10] <jonasw> (I don’t think that you can tell an iframe to behave like a <div/> regarding layout, so that’s a whole can of worms there)
[09:16:21] <jonasw> (but maybe it’s possible I haven’t checked)
[09:16:28] <edhelas> personnally I just find XHTML-IM not great for users in general
[09:16:33] <jonasw> edhelas, why?
[09:16:46] <edhelas> and as I said, you'll have the exact same problem when users will use Atom in Pubsub
[09:16:59] *** sonny has joined the room
[09:17:01] <jonasw> for atom in pubsub, using an iframe is probably more realitsic
[09:17:09] <edhelas> I have to deeply sanitize Atom content to ensure that I don't have JS/CSS/iframe injections in it
[09:17:14] <jonasw> Ge0rG, and I’m not sure you can access the dom of an iframe from the outside
[09:17:15] <edhelas> no, hell no
[09:17:32] <edhelas> just sanitize things, you have nice libs for that
[09:17:47] <jonasw> edhelas, where are those nice libs, and why doesn’t the XHTML-IM XEP mention them?
[09:18:52] <edhelas> https://github.com/ezyang/htmlpurifier for PHP
[09:19:00] <jonasw> for JS that is
[09:19:07] <jonasw> because we’re talking about actual web clients
[09:19:12] <jonasw> things running in HTML+JS
[09:19:23] <edhelas> https://github.com/movim/movim/blob/e30f6f59cdb10ab697629a455d7cbfb8ff316773/src/Movim/Daemon/Api.php#L101
[09:19:35] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:20:48] <edhelas> jonasw https://code.google.com/archive/p/google-caja/wikis/JsHtmlSanitizer.wiki ?
[09:21:15] <jonasw>

There was an error obtaining wiki data:
{"data":{"text":null},"status":-1,"config":{"method":"GET","transformRequest":[null],"jsonpCallbackParam":"callback","url":"https://www.googleapis.com/storage/v1/b/google-code-archive/o/v2%2Fcode.google.com%2Fgoogle-caja%2Fwiki%2FJsHtmlSanitizer.wiki?alt=media","headers":{"Accept":"application/json, text/plain, */*"}},"statusText":""}
[09:21:24] <jonasw> edhelas, did you just google that or is that a library with a good security track record?
[09:21:25] <edhelas> just googling around
[09:21:32] <jonasw> yeah, that’s not how this will work
[09:21:37] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[09:22:03] <Ge0rG> Wow. a11n for Emoji is a black art on its own: http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/specs/ldml/tr35-general.html#SynthesizingNames
[09:22:27] <edhelas> but as I said, more than XHTML, I prefer to strip more of the tags and style, because I don't want my client discussion UI to look ugly
[09:22:56] <jonasw> Ge0rG, a11y for unicode is a black art on its own
[09:23:16] <jonasw> edhelas, we agree on burning @style with fire, right?
[09:23:51] <edhelas> I just agree to stop trying to fix a problem by bringing another one
[09:24:09] <edhelas> we have XHTML-IM, just bring good practice and fix those clients
[09:24:24] <jonasw> convince council :-)
[09:24:56] <jonasw> deep inside I’m still thinking that XHTML-IM can be "fixed" to the extent that developers are well-aware that it is tricky to get right and they’re also given the tools to do it right.
[09:25:06] *** Wiktor shows as "online"
[09:25:32] <Ge0rG> web developers don't give a shit. They wouldn't be web developers otherwise.
[09:26:01] <jonasw> that’s a bit harsh
[09:26:05] <dwd> Ge0rG, I don't think that's true. I'm on a call with one now.
[09:26:13] <edhelas> Ge0rG thanks, much appreciated <3
[09:26:46] <jonasw> Ge0rG, I think there are web developers out there who actually want to make a good thing and who actually care. It’s not the majority though.
[09:26:53] <jonasw> (from what I feel when using web applications)
[09:27:06] <Ge0rG> edhelas: sorry. That was not intended to insult you. You are doing great work, actually.
[09:32:41] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:33:22] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:33:22] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[09:33:39] <Ge0rG> Oh my. They even distinguish AE and BE in the CLDR annotations: "😋" = "face savoring food" = "face savouring food"
[09:34:56] <jonasw> excellent
[09:36:23] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:36:56] <Ge0rG> "🥖" = "baguette bread" = "French stick" = "baguette" in English, depending on your locale.
[09:37:18] <jonasw> en_GB everywhere!
[09:37:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[09:37:27] *** Kev shows as "online"
[09:40:02] <Ge0rG> An i18n a11y nightmare in five Emojis!
[09:40:36] <Ge0rG> (not that you could conclusively count the number of Emojis in a given UTF8 string)
[09:41:04] <jonasw> lovely
[09:41:46] <jonasw> why can’t we have nice things :(
[09:42:45] <Ge0rG> jonasw: because 🤦🏿🤖💩🤰
[09:43:06] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:43:17] <jonasw> what
[09:43:24] *** Holger shows as "online"
[09:43:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[09:45:45] <Ge0rG> I wonder if "🤰♂" will be translated into "Arnold Schwarzenegger"
[09:54:22] *** dwd has left the room
[09:54:28] <dwd> I might have persuaded our FE dev to wade in on the XHTML issue.
[09:54:53] <jonasw> dwd, in which way "wade in"?
[09:56:33] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[09:56:41] *** sonny has joined the room
[09:56:58] <dwd> jonasw, State his opinion. Given that he's a web/js developer first and foremost, it might be a useful perspective.
[09:57:09] <jonasw> mhm
[09:59:31] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[09:59:33] <zinid> edhelas also a web dev ;)
[10:00:19] <edhelas> damn, you unveiled me
[10:00:36] <jonasw> cue dramatic fanfare
[10:01:02] <edhelas> my evil plan of deploying broken XHTML-IM everywhere is falling appart
[10:01:03] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:01:17] <Ge0rG> world domination through XMPP XSS
[10:02:29] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:04:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:04:57] *** Holger has left the room
[10:07:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:07:51] <dwd> zinid, It is possible there is more than just one web dev indeed.
[10:12:53] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:17:01] *** Alex has left the room
[10:17:37] *** pep. shows as "online"
[10:18:31] <zinid> dwd: so we need moar opinions? we don't get enough yet? :)
[10:19:44] *** sonny has joined the room
[10:22:53] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:24:19] *** Guus has left the room
[10:24:21] *** Guus has joined the room
[10:25:16] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:27:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:27:45] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[10:27:48] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[10:28:10] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[10:28:22] <dwd> zinid, We don't need opinions, so much as a consensus.
[10:28:22] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[10:28:36] *** Guus has left the room
[10:28:38] *** Guus has joined the room
[10:35:22] <Link Mauve> “10:17:01 jonasw> I personally find @style hard to sanitize. You can’t do that with regexes alone.”, indeed, you first have to split on “;” and then to split each value on “:” and then to pick only the elements you want to support from the left part. I would assume there is no language in which this is any difficult, though.
[10:36:16] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:36:16] *** intosi has left the room
[10:36:16] *** ralphm has left the room
[10:36:16] *** ralphm has joined the room
[10:36:16] *** intosi has joined the room
[10:36:21] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:36:21] <Link Mauve> background-image is explicitly not allowed by XHTML-IM, you wouldn’t allow it.
[10:36:34] <Ge0rG> Link Mauve: couldn't you still inject function calls into the right part?
[10:36:36] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[10:36:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:36:54] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[10:37:21] <Link Mauve> Ge0rG, none of the allowed properties support any URI or function call, I checked that the other day.
[10:38:06] <Ge0rG> Link Mauve: does that guarantee that browsers won't execute function calls / URIs when encountered there?
[10:41:05] <Link Mauve> I’ve found that browsers take security issue seriously, if the specification doesn’t allow such things and a bug is found in a browser, I’d expect it to be fixed very quickly.
[10:43:35] <Ge0rG> XHTML-IM it is, then!
[10:44:27] *** stefandxm has left the room
[10:44:45] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:45:08] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[10:45:11] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[10:50:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:51:20] *** lumi has joined the room
[10:51:24] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[10:51:28] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[10:52:59] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[10:53:00] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[10:53:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:58:11] *** dwd has left the room
[10:58:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:00:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:03:53] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[11:05:25] *** sonny has joined the room
[11:08:35] *** dwd has left the room
[11:08:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:09:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:09:24] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:12:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:13:40] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[11:15:17] *** dwd has left the room
[11:15:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:15:58] *** emxp has joined the room
[11:17:51] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:18:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:18:45] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[11:22:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:22:31] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[11:24:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:25:33] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:25:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:25:52] *** sonny has joined the room
[11:26:20] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[11:27:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:28:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:28:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:29:42] *** dwd has left the room
[11:29:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:30:08] *** dwd has left the room
[11:30:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:30:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:31:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:32:01] *** Guus has left the room
[11:32:10] *** McKael shows as "online"
[11:32:55] *** zinid has left the room
[11:32:58] *** zinid shows as "online"
[11:33:20] *** dwd has left the room
[11:33:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:40] *** Guus has joined the room
[11:33:49] *** sonny has joined the room
[11:35:12] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[11:35:23] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[11:35:46] *** sonny has left the room
[11:35:52] *** sonny has joined the room
[11:35:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:36:36] *** sonny has left the room
[11:36:41] *** sonny has joined the room
[11:36:47] *** dwd has left the room
[11:36:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:16] *** dwd has left the room
[11:38:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:39:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:41:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:42:11] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[11:42:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:43:10] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[11:46:31] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[11:47:26] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[11:47:47] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[11:48:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:49:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:49:52] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[11:50:56] *** dwd has left the room
[11:50:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:51:15] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[11:51:41] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:54:22] *** dwd has left the room
[11:54:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:55:33] *** pep. shows as "online"
[11:56:13] *** dwd has left the room
[11:56:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:57:44] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[12:00:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:00:22] *** dwd has left the room
[12:01:33] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:04:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:05:16] *** dwd has left the room
[12:05:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:06:22] *** dwd has left the room
[12:07:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:08:45] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[12:09:47] *** McKael shows as "online"
[12:10:35] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[12:11:34] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:14:16] *** lumi shows as "online"
[12:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[12:17:23] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[12:18:10] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[12:22:18] <Zash> https://www.zash.se/xep-0071-4177863-security.html
[12:24:19] *** Wiktor shows as "online"
[12:24:48] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:28:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:29:22] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:32:19] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:32:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:33:39] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:34:20] *** emxp has left the room
[12:35:00] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:38:33] *** dwd has left the room
[12:38:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:39:22] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[12:41:05] *** McKael shows as "online"
[12:42:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:44:11] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:46:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:47:50] *** sonny has left the room
[12:47:56] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:48:22] *** dwd has left the room
[12:51:28] *** jere has joined the room
[12:51:29] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:53:03] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:53:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:56:08] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:57:38] *** dwd has left the room
[12:57:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:59:38] *** dwd has left the room
[12:59:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:00:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:01:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:01:46] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:02:16] *** dwd has left the room
[13:02:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:03:00] *** dwd has left the room
[13:03:03] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:03:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:03:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:03:23] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[13:04:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:04:53] *** dwd has left the room
[13:04:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:05:37] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:06:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:07:21] *** jere has left the room
[13:07:27] *** jere has joined the room
[13:07:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:08:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:09:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:11:06] *** dwd has left the room
[13:11:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:11:56] *** dwd has left the room
[13:12:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:12:14] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[13:12:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:14:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:14:39] *** lskdjf has left the room
[13:14:40] *** dwd has left the room
[13:14:43] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[13:14:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:16:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:16:24] *** dwd has left the room
[13:16:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:17:35] *** dwd has left the room
[13:17:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:18:05] *** dwd has left the room
[13:18:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:18:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:19:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:21:21] *** dwd has left the room
[13:21:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:21:39] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work, work …"
[13:22:36] *** dwd has left the room
[13:22:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:24:03] *** dwd has left the room
[13:25:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:26:53] *** dwd has left the room
[13:26:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:27:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:27:34] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:28:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:28:50] *** dwd has left the room
[13:28:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:30:17] *** matlag has left the room
[13:30:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:31:00] *** matlag shows as "online"
[13:31:02] *** matlag has left the room
[13:31:10] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:31:20] *** matlag shows as "online"
[13:32:20] *** McKael shows as "online"
[13:32:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:33:01] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[13:33:03] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:33:06] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:33:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:34:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:35:16] *** dwd has left the room
[13:35:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:36:14] *** dwd has left the room
[13:36:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:36:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:36:43] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[13:36:48] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:37:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:37:43] *** daniel has left the room
[13:37:47] *** daniel has joined the room
[13:37:53] *** dwd has left the room
[13:37:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:41:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:41:26] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[13:42:07] *** matlag shows as "online"
[13:42:17] *** Kev shows as "away"
[13:42:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:43:07] *** matlag shows as "online"
[13:43:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:43:53] *** matlag has left the room
[13:43:56] *** daniel has left the room
[13:44:08] *** dwd has left the room
[13:44:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:45:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:45:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:46:58] *** dwd has left the room
[13:47:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:47:18] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[13:47:41] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[13:48:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:49:25] *** efrit has joined the room
[13:49:59] *** ralphm has left the room
[13:50:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:51:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:51:27] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[13:53:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:53:09] *** daniel has joined the room
[13:53:29] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[13:53:35] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[13:54:10] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:54:12] *** dwd has left the room
[13:54:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:54:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:55:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:56:01] *** dwd has left the room
[13:56:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:56:07] *** jonasw has left the room
[13:56:24] *** dwd has left the room
[13:56:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:57:03] *** dwd has left the room
[13:57:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:57:22] *** dwd has left the room
[13:57:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:57:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:58:03] *** dwd has left the room
[13:58:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:58:18] *** Kev shows as "away"
[13:58:47] *** dwd has left the room
[13:58:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:59:05] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[13:59:39] *** Wiktor shows as "online"
[14:00:21] *** dwd has left the room
[14:00:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:01:39] *** dwd has left the room
[14:01:41] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[14:01:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:02:28] *** dwd has left the room
[14:02:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:03:19] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:03:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:04:01] *** emxp has joined the room
[14:04:02] *** emxp shows as "online"
[14:04:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:05:45] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:06:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:06:33] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:06:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:06:58] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:08:57] *** dwd has left the room
[14:09:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:09:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:14:29] *** jere has left the room
[14:14:36] *** jere has joined the room
[14:14:44] *** McKael shows as "online"
[14:15:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:15:42] *** arc has joined the room
[14:17:48] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[14:19:35] *** daniel has left the room
[14:19:44] *** sonny has joined the room
[14:19:45] *** daniel has joined the room
[14:22:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:25:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:26:31] *** dwd has left the room
[14:26:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:27:14] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[14:28:21] *** xnyhps has left the room
[14:28:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[14:28:27] *** dwd has left the room
[14:29:27] *** edhelas has left the room
[14:29:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:29:39] *** sonny has left the room
[14:29:45] *** McKael shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:29:48] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[14:29:49] *** sonny has joined the room
[14:29:57] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[14:30:04] *** edhelas has left the room
[14:30:06] *** dwd has left the room
[14:30:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:30:29] *** sonny has joined the room
[14:31:39] *** dwd has left the room
[14:31:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:32:07] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:32:13] *** dwd has left the room
[14:33:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:34:50] *** dwd has left the room
[14:34:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:35:59] *** ralphm has left the room
[14:36:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:36:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:38:50] *** dwd has left the room
[14:38:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:39:15] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:39:44] *** daniel has left the room
[14:39:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:39:48] *** daniel has joined the room
[14:39:58] *** emxp has joined the room
[14:40:12] *** Alex has joined the room
[14:40:27] *** dwd has left the room
[14:40:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:41:13] *** dwd has left the room
[14:41:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:42:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:42:50] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:43:08] *** efrit has left the room
[14:43:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:43:37] *** waqas has joined the room
[14:43:45] *** Alex shows as "online"
[14:44:08] *** Alex has left the room
[14:44:36] *** dwd has left the room
[14:44:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:45:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:45:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:46:34] *** dwd has left the room
[14:46:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:46:57] *** dwd has left the room
[14:47:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:47:37] *** dwd has left the room
[14:47:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:48:19] *** goffi has joined the room
[14:48:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:49:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:50:31] *** Wiktor has left the room
[14:51:06] *** dwd has left the room
[14:51:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:51:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:52:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:53:06] *** tux shows as "away" and his status message is "Out eating. Mmmm.. food."
[14:53:14] *** dwd has left the room
[14:53:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:53:42] *** Zash has left the room
[14:54:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:54:57] *** jere has joined the room
[14:55:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:56:07] *** daniel has left the room
[14:56:13] *** daniel has joined the room
[14:56:14] *** Zash shows as "online"
[14:57:05] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:57:22] *** dwd has left the room
[14:57:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:58:15] *** dwd has left the room
[14:58:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:00:22] *** dwd has left the room
[15:02:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:02:58] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[15:03:22] *** dwd has left the room
[15:04:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:06:02] *** dwd has left the room
[15:06:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:06:12] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[15:07:43] *** dwd has left the room
[15:07:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:07:56] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:08:21] <Ge0rG> Zash: it looks like the only item on the https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0038.html#sect-idm139548995353376 list that can't be mapped to Unicode is :jabber:. What an irony.
[15:08:47] <Kev> 💡 doesn't quite cut it, does it?
[15:09:19] *** dwd has left the room
[15:09:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:09:51] <Zash> Throw in some zwj stuff and call it a day
[15:09:55] *** dwd has left the room
[15:10:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:10:21] <Ge0rG> 💡 + Variant Selector 16.
[15:10:27] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[15:10:35] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:11:11] *** tux shows as "online"
[15:11:19] *** dwd has left the room
[15:11:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:11:25] *** Alex has left the room
[15:11:56] *** Valerian has joined the room
[15:12:19] <Ge0rG> So I've written a poezio plugin that replaces all incoming Emojis with their respective :alias:. And now I see how ugly it looks and that I still need to look on my phone to see if it was an Emoji originally.
[15:12:22] *** dwd has left the room
[15:13:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:13:24] *** dwd has left the room
[15:13:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:13:58] *** dwd has left the room
[15:14:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[15:16:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:16:33] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:16:36] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:16:49] *** dwd has left the room
[15:16:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:17:36] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:17:39] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:18:22] *** dwd has left the room
[15:21:23] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[15:21:27] *** Guus has left the room
[15:21:52] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:23:11] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:23:14] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:24:27] <moparisthebest> but markup in <body> is bad, someone said
[15:25:17] *** lumi shows as "online"
[15:26:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:26:24] <Zash> Unicode isn't markup
[15:26:36] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: yes, and what I wrote underscores that point
[15:26:47] *** Valerian has left the room
[15:29:28] *** sonny has left the room
[15:29:41] <moparisthebest> Ge0rG‎: I still need to look on my phone to see if it was an Emoji originally
[15:29:46] <moparisthebest> my question is, why do you care
[15:30:03] *** daniel has left the room
[15:30:07] *** daniel has joined the room
[15:30:38] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[15:32:03] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:34:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:34:30] *** Guus has joined the room
[15:35:51] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:38:00] *** jubalh has joined the room
[15:38:15] *** jubalh has left the room
[15:38:44] <Zash> @nickname is markup, right?
[15:39:15] <Link Mauve> Yeah.
[15:39:42] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[15:39:56] <moparisthebest> yep that's bad too, need a fancy UI and protocol established for highlighting someone
[15:40:06] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[15:40:11] <Link Mauve> moparisthebest, mentions already got a XEP.
[15:40:18] <SamWhited> Did it?
[15:40:25] <SamWhited> Link please!
[15:40:35] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:40:55] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: I don't know why I care, but it turned out I do
[15:41:07] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:41:17] <Link Mauve> I don’t think it was this one I was thinking about: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/jid-mention.html
[15:41:19] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[15:41:25] <Link Mauve> Maybe references?
[15:41:25] <Zash> Heh, Link
[15:41:25] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:41:34] <Link Mauve> Yes? :p
[15:42:09] <moparisthebest> Ge0rG, sounds like a personal problem vs a protocol problem :)
[15:42:55] *** sonny has left the room
[15:43:01] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:43:17] <SamWhited> *snort* I didn't mean to do that.
[15:43:24] <SamWhited> I'd forgotten about this one, thanks
[15:44:54] *** zinid shows as "online"
[15:45:37] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:45:37] <Zash> Can {xep attention} be directed at a MUC participant?
[15:45:38] <Bunneh> Zash: XEP-0224: Attention (Standards Track, Draft, 2008-11-13)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0224.html
[15:46:12] <moparisthebest> jid-mention looks like a great way to spam more, that looks like about all it's useful for
[15:46:33] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:46:58] *** waqas has left the room
[15:47:07] *** sonny has joined the room
[15:47:09] *** Guus has left the room
[15:48:55] *** jere has left the room
[15:49:03] *** jere has joined the room
[15:49:16] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:49:42] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:50:59] *** SamWhited has left the room
[15:51:04] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[15:55:16] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:55:22] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:55:37] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:55:41] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:56:06] <Link Mauve> Zash, sadly no.
[15:56:43] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:56:46] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:00:56] *** waqas has joined the room
[16:04:37] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:04:55] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:04:57] *** Guus has joined the room
[16:05:27] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[16:06:17] *** Guus has left the room
[16:08:29] *** Guus has joined the room
[16:08:37] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:09:16] *** sonny has joined the room
[16:09:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:11:49] *** lumi has left the room
[16:11:51] *** stefandxm has left the room
[16:13:40] <goffi> Link Mauve: jid-mention has been vetoed in favor of reference
[16:14:36] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:17:43] *** alacer has joined the room
[16:18:22] *** dwd has left the room
[16:19:18] <Link Mauve> Ok.
[16:21:31] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[16:23:46] *** sonny has left the room
[16:23:52] *** sonny has joined the room
[16:24:13] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:24:37] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:25:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:25:18] *** nyco has left the room
[16:26:23] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:30:05] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:30:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:30:45] *** nyco shows as "online"
[16:31:22] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:31:30] *** Kev shows as "away"
[16:31:30] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:31:30] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:33:37] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[16:36:32] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:38:52] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[16:41:48] *** ralphm has left the room
[16:42:01] *** lovetox has left the room
[16:42:32] *** daniel has left the room
[16:42:40] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:42:48] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:42:52] *** Arc has joined the room
[16:45:13] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:45:31] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:45:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:47:11] *** lovetox has joined the room
[16:47:27] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:47:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[16:47:54] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:48:55] *** lovetox has left the room
[16:49:45] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:52:05] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[16:53:19] *** sonny has joined the room
[16:53:55] *** sonny has left the room
[16:54:25] *** sonny has joined the room
[16:56:10] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:56:12] *** ralphm has left the room
[16:57:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[16:58:17] *** tim@boese-ban.de has joined the room
[16:58:24] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[16:58:36] <SamWhited> Just got kicked from mucs on this server when I joined in another client. No idea why.
[16:58:44] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[16:59:22] *** sonny has joined the room
[16:59:24] *** ralphm has joined the room
[16:59:33] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:00:01] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[17:00:02] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:00:03] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:00:13] <Link Mauve> SamWhited, a lot of people just left with “Kicked: remote server not found: Server-to-server connection failed: DNS resolution failed” as their status.
[17:00:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[17:00:21] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:00:23] <Link Mauve> The same second as yours.
[17:01:08] *** lovetox has joined the room
[17:01:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[17:01:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[17:01:36] *** jubalh has joined the room
[17:05:00] <SamWhited> ah, maybe my joining from another client was a red herring
[17:05:13] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[17:05:47] *** Tobias has joined the room
[17:05:53] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[17:07:38] *** sonny has left the room
[17:07:44] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:07:51] *** lovetox has left the room
[17:08:54] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:09:33] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:10:18] *** sonny has left the room
[17:10:22] *** mathieui has joined the room
[17:10:24] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:11:18] *** sonny has left the room
[17:11:24] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:11:33] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:12:05] *** lovetox has joined the room
[17:12:57] *** lovetox has left the room
[17:14:54] *** sonny has left the room
[17:14:59] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:15:58] *** lovetox has joined the room
[17:16:15] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:17:01] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:17:01] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:17:15] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:18:01] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[17:18:01] *** Arc shows as "online"
[17:18:29] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[17:18:30] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[17:18:37] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:19:56] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:20:25] *** sonny has left the room
[17:20:30] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:20:56] *** Syndace has joined the room
[17:21:43] *** sonny has left the room
[17:21:49] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:22:04] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[17:22:21] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:24:08] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:24:16] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:24:59] *** sonny has left the room
[17:25:04] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:25:17] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:27:19] *** sonny has left the room
[17:27:29] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:27:40] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:29:44] *** sonny has left the room
[17:29:50] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:30:07] *** sonny has left the room
[17:30:13] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:34:17] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:34:22] *** stefandxm has left the room
[17:39:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:41:14] *** ralphm has left the room
[17:44:26] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:45:04] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[17:47:20] *** sonny has left the room
[17:47:25] *** sonny has joined the room
[17:48:13] *** jubalh has joined the room
[17:49:09] *** jubalh has left the room
[17:50:24] *** valo has joined the room
[17:53:24] *** Arc has left the room
[17:56:11] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[18:00:57] *** daniel has left the room
[18:01:05] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:02:01] *** jubalh has joined the room
[18:07:04] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:07:04] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:08:36] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:08:55] <dwd> In terms of "marking up" a mention, XEP-0372 is the best thinking we have currently.
[18:09:49] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:09:49] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:10:54] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:10:54] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:11:09] *** efrit has joined the room
[18:15:17] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[18:15:53] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[18:18:18] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[18:24:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:24:15] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:24:15] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:25:23] *** dwd has left the room
[18:25:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:26:25] *** dwd has left the room
[18:26:27] *** sonny has left the room
[18:26:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:26:33] *** sonny has joined the room
[18:26:49] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:27:17] *** dwd has left the room
[18:27:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:28:49] *** dwd has left the room
[18:28:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:31:35] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:31:35] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:32:39] *** dwd has left the room
[18:32:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:34:18] *** dwd has left the room
[18:34:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:35:15] *** dwd has left the room
[18:35:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:36:22] *** dwd has left the room
[18:36:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:36:49] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:38:42] *** dwd has left the room
[18:38:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:38:47] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:38:47] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[18:41:05] <SamWhited> References seems nice, but I wish the bit that reads "TODO: define character appropriately" were expanded. I don't think it could be implemented as-is in an interoperable manner without that bit being expanded.
[18:41:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:42:22] *** dwd has left the room
[18:42:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:43:59] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:43:59] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:44:44] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:44:44] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:44:47] *** dwd has left the room
[18:44:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:45:22] *** dwd has left the room
[18:47:05] *** efrit has left the room
[18:48:51] *** Kev shows as "online"
[18:50:06] *** lskdjf has left the room
[18:50:06] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[18:54:50] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[18:56:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:57:03] *** lumi has joined the room
[18:57:40] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[18:59:22] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[18:59:41] *** dwd has left the room
[18:59:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:00:44] *** jere has left the room
[19:00:47] *** dwd has left the room
[19:00:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:00:52] *** jere has joined the room
[19:02:32] *** dwd has left the room
[19:02:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:02:40] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:03:34] *** dwd has left the room
[19:03:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:06:02] *** dwd has left the room
[19:06:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:08:44] *** dwd has left the room
[19:08:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:10:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:10:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:10:33] *** ralphm has joined the room
[19:11:58] *** stefandxm has left the room
[19:12:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:12:40] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:12:44] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:14:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:15:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:15:55] *** vanitasvitae has joined the room
[19:18:10] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[19:18:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:18:27] *** jere has left the room
[19:18:34] *** jere has joined the room
[19:19:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:21:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:21:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:21:59] *** lskdjf has left the room
[19:22:00] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:22:23] *** dwd has left the room
[19:22:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:23:10] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:23:59] *** dwd has left the room
[19:24:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:24:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:24:57] *** lskdjf has left the room
[19:24:57] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:25:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:27:35] *** dwd has left the room
[19:27:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:27:42] *** matlag has joined the room
[19:28:46] *** dwd has left the room
[19:28:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:29:33] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[19:30:08] *** dwd has left the room
[19:30:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:30:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:30:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:31:02] *** waqas has left the room
[19:33:10] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:33:16] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[19:33:18] *** dwd has left the room
[19:33:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:33:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:33:59] *** lumi shows as "online"
[19:35:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:35:47] *** dwd has left the room
[19:35:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:36:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:38:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:39:33] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:39:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:41:05] *** dwd has left the room
[19:41:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:41:14] *** ralphm has joined the room
[19:42:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:42:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:44:06] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[19:44:19] *** dwd has left the room
[19:44:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:45:12] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[19:45:20] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[19:45:30] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:45:40] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[19:45:59] *** dwd has left the room
[19:46:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:47:01] *** dwd has left the room
[19:47:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:48:16] *** dwd has left the room
[19:48:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:48:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:49:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:51:01] *** Kev shows as "online"
[19:51:16] *** dwd has left the room
[19:51:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:51:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:53:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:54:00] *** dwd has left the room
[19:54:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:54:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:55:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:56:15] *** dwd has left the room
[19:56:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:57:22] *** dwd has left the room
[19:57:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:58:56] *** dwd has left the room
[19:58:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:59:03] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:59:08] *** lumi shows as "online"
[20:00:20] *** dwd has left the room
[20:00:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:01:31] *** dwd has left the room
[20:01:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:01:42] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[20:01:50] *** ralphm has joined the room
[20:01:58] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:03:21] *** dwd has left the room
[20:03:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:03:26] *** Guus has left the room
[20:04:41] *** dwd has left the room
[20:04:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:05:02] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:05:08] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[20:06:11] *** dwd has left the room
[20:06:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:06:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:06:28] *** Guus has joined the room
[20:09:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:09:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:09:29] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[20:10:08] *** SouL has left the room
[20:10:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:10:51] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:11:50] *** ralphm has joined the room
[20:12:08] *** dwd has left the room
[20:12:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:12:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:12:26] *** lumi shows as "online"
[20:13:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:14:24] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:14:30] *** dwd has left the room
[20:14:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:16:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:16:54] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:17:39] *** dwd has left the room
[20:17:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:18:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:19:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:19:57] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[20:20:05] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[20:20:51] *** Guus has joined the room
[20:21:05] *** sonny has joined the room
[20:21:40] *** dwd has left the room
[20:21:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:21:48] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:23:41] *** dwd has left the room
[20:23:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:24:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:25:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:26:02] *** zinid has left the room
[20:26:52] *** dwd has left the room
[20:26:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:27:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:28:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:30:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:30:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:32:21] *** dwd has left the room
[20:32:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:32:36] *** jere has left the room
[20:32:43] *** jere has joined the room
[20:33:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:34:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:35:14] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:35:31] *** dwd has left the room
[20:35:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:36:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:37:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:37:16] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:38:53] *** dwd has left the room
[20:38:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:40:33] *** edhelas has joined the room
[20:40:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:40:56] *** nyco has joined the room
[20:41:39] *** dwd has left the room
[20:41:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:42:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:42:52] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[20:42:53] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[20:43:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:43:28] *** lskdjf has left the room
[20:43:28] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[20:45:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:45:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:47:33] *** ThurahT has joined the room
[20:48:00] *** dwd has left the room
[20:48:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:48:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:48:30] *** lskdjf has left the room
[20:48:30] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[20:49:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:49:54] *** lskdjf has left the room
[20:49:54] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[20:50:12] *** Arc has joined the room
[20:51:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:51:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:52:17] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[20:53:03] *** edhelas has left the room
[20:53:06] *** dwd has left the room
[20:53:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:53:11] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:54:21] *** dwd has left the room
[20:54:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:55:13] *** dwd has left the room
[20:55:33] *** jjrh has left the room
[20:55:35] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[20:55:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:57:22] *** dwd has left the room
[20:58:30] *** matlag shows as "online"
[20:58:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:59:50] *** edhelas has left the room
[21:00:11] *** edhelas has joined the room
[21:00:41] *** dwd has left the room
[21:00:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:01:44] *** stefandxm has left the room
[21:02:20] *** dwd has left the room
[21:02:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:02:47] *** dwd has left the room
[21:02:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:03:10] *** ralphm has joined the room
[21:03:12] *** tux has joined the room
[21:03:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:04:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:05:24] *** sonny has left the room
[21:05:30] *** sonny has joined the room
[21:05:32] *** dwd has left the room
[21:05:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:06:15] *** dwd has left the room
[21:06:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:06:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:06:32] *** sonny has left the room
[21:06:37] *** sonny has joined the room
[21:07:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:07:44] *** dwd has left the room
[21:07:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:09:08] *** sonny has left the room
[21:09:10] *** dwd has left the room
[21:09:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:09:13] *** sonny has joined the room
[21:09:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:10:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:10:30] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:10:52] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:11:14] *** dwd has left the room
[21:11:14] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:11:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:11:57] *** matlag has left the room
[21:12:01] *** dwd has left the room
[21:12:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:12:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:12:36] *** daniel has left the room
[21:12:54] *** matlag shows as "online"
[21:13:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:14:02] *** dwd has left the room
[21:14:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:15:07] *** dwd has left the room
[21:15:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:15:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:16:00] *** matlag shows as "online"
[21:16:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:16:52] *** stefandxm has joined the room
[21:16:54] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[21:18:02] *** dwd has left the room
[21:18:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:18:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:18:55] *** daniel has joined the room
[21:20:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:21:19] *** dwd has left the room
[21:21:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:22:15] *** dwd has left the room
[21:22:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:23:57] *** dwd has left the room
[21:24:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:24:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:24:30] *** sonny has joined the room
[21:25:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:25:07] *** daniel has left the room
[21:26:18] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[21:26:31] *** edhelas has left the room
[21:27:06] *** dwd has left the room
[21:27:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:27:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:28:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:28:57] *** dwd has left the room
[21:29:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:30:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:30:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:32:26] *** dwd has left the room
[21:32:29] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:32:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:33:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:34:30] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:34:36] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:35:21] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[21:35:21] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[21:35:32] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[21:35:33] *** Arc shows as "online"
[21:36:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:36:32] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[21:36:39] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:39:22] *** dwd has left the room
[21:41:52] *** daniel has joined the room
[21:43:17] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[21:43:17] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[21:46:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:46:32] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[21:47:55] *** nyco has left the room
[21:48:01] *** nyco has joined the room
[21:50:01] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[21:50:02] *** Arc shows as "online"
[21:50:19] *** edhelas has left the room
[21:50:31] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[21:50:45] *** edhelas has left the room
[21:50:45] *** lumi has left the room
[21:51:18] *** goffi has left the room
[21:52:35] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:57:01] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[21:57:14] *** edhelas has left the room
[21:57:33] *** edhelas has joined the room
[21:57:45] *** daniel has left the room
[21:58:52] *** dwd has left the room
[21:59:06] *** edhelas has left the room
[21:59:24] *** edhelas has joined the room
[21:59:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:59:36] *** edhelas has left the room
[21:59:48] *** edhelas has joined the room
[22:01:14] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[22:01:17] *** edhelas has left the room
[22:02:09] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:02:13] *** lovetox has left the room
[22:03:34] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[22:04:01] *** Guus has left the room
[22:05:15] *** matlag has left the room
[22:06:22] *** dwd has left the room
[22:07:00] *** Guus has joined the room
[22:14:49] *** edhelas has left the room
[22:17:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:17:26] *** valo has left the room
[22:17:31] *** valo has joined the room
[22:19:18] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:20:36] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:21:01] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:23:21] *** daniel has joined the room
[22:24:28] *** jere has left the room
[22:24:34] *** jere has joined the room
[22:27:22] *** dwd has left the room
[22:29:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:29:54] *** arc has left the room
[22:29:55] *** arc has joined the room
[22:31:09] *** dwd has left the room
[22:31:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:34:31] *** dwd has left the room
[22:34:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:35:27] *** dwd has left the room
[22:35:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:36:26] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:36:27] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:36:30] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[22:37:17] *** dwd has left the room
[22:37:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:38:56] *** dwd has left the room
[22:38:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:39:20] *** lskdjf has left the room
[22:39:20] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[22:40:42] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[22:40:53] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[22:41:19] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[22:41:19] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[22:42:21] *** dwd has left the room
[22:42:24] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:43:43] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[22:43:43] *** Arc shows as "online"
[22:43:53] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:44:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:45:22] *** dwd has left the room
[22:48:31] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:49:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[22:51:22] *** dwd has left the room
[22:54:51] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[22:55:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:00:46] *** dwd has left the room
[23:03:04] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:03:04] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:04:15] *** Guus has left the room
[23:06:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:06:21] *** dwd has left the room
[23:07:00] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:12:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:14:25] *** dwd has left the room
[23:15:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:15:21] *** dwd has left the room
[23:17:54] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[23:18:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:19:48] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[23:23:28] *** dwd has left the room
[23:24:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:24:22] *** dwd has left the room
[23:31:21] *** Valerian has joined the room
[23:31:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:32:37] *** dwd has left the room
[23:33:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:35:53] *** efrit has joined the room
[23:40:10] *** tux has joined the room
[23:41:15] *** dwd has left the room
[23:41:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[23:42:21] *** dwd has left the room
[23:43:22] *** Valerian has left the room
[23:46:22] *** efrit has left the room
[23:47:16] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:47:16] *** Arc shows as "online"
[23:47:59] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[23:49:31] *** efrit has joined the room
[23:50:40] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[23:51:06] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[23:56:50] *** pep. has left the room
[23:58:33] *** arc has left the room
[23:58:34] *** arc has joined the room
[23:58:39] *** jubalh has joined the room