Tuesday, October 24, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[00:09:06] <matlag> Yes, and apparently the take away for the moment is someone does not like your mascote
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[03:59:03] <Arc> mascote?
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[05:58:51] <edhelas> yup saw that, I answered on the discussion already
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[05:59:52] <edhelas> at least people are not talking about Matrix :p
[06:00:16] <Zash> Great success
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[06:08:25] <zinid> is matrix still alive?
[06:09:13] <zinid> I still remember the claim "Insanely scalable and performant next-generation server (Dendrite) on the horizon" and waiting patiently
[06:09:40] <edhelas> soon
[06:10:02] <Zash> You get a ruby thing that needs 2 gigs of memory for a few users
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[06:10:42] <edhelas> RAM is meant to be used
[06:10:45] <zinid> nah
[06:10:47] <zinid> it's in Go
[06:11:10] <Zash> I mean the current server
[06:11:28] <zinid> the current is in python
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[06:11:53] <Zash> Same same :P
[06:12:11] <zinid> yes, crap
[06:12:43] <zinid> and then they chose another crap
[06:13:18] <zinid> every server in Go I used is leaking and unstable as hell
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[07:22:27] <zinid> damn, I cannot even read the MIX XEP, yet I have to implement it, wtf...
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[07:27:23] <edhelas> I know that feeling
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[08:19:44] <dwd> zinid, You're implementing MIX? Our implementation still doesn't entirely match the XEP. Too many things don't work well in practise.
[08:20:20] <zinid> dwd: I implemented the very first version, it's outdated of course
[08:20:33] <zinid> and looking at the current XEP I'm losing motivation, it's overly complex
[08:20:52] <Ge0rG> Maybe we can just fix MUC.
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[08:21:14] <dwd> zinid, Some parts are fine. Others get a bit weird, mostly around proxy vs real jids.
[08:22:36] <Zash> Ge0rG: Make me motivated to work on mod_minimix or whatever I called it. Makes you join MUCs with your bare JID. I forget what parts got weird.
[08:22:36] <zinid> Ge0rG: I also tend to think it's easier to fix MUC
[08:23:01] <zinid> or implement "simple" muc
[08:23:12] <Ge0rG> Zash: write to standards@!
[08:23:21] <Zash> Ge0rG: Implementation first!
[08:23:46] <Zash> Ge0rG: Technically not requiring any standards yet. Protocol doesn't change.
[08:24:02] <Ge0rG> Zash: joining with a bare JID is a protocol change.
[08:24:25] <Zash> Does MUC forbid that?
[08:24:54] <Ge0rG> I'm pretty sure it does
[08:25:07] <zinid> really?
[08:25:14] <Ge0rG> okay, I'm not sure.
[08:25:15] <Zash> Arbitrary JID limitations should go away
[08:25:16] <dwd> No, it doesn't.
[08:25:31] <Zash> What if a server wants to join a room that doesn't have a node? :)
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[08:25:50] <dwd> Oh, room jids have to be of specific forms.
[08:25:55] <Ge0rG> what if a server wants to join a room that runs at the bare JID of the server?
[08:26:06] <Ge0rG> dwd: you can join chat.yax.im as a MUC.
[08:26:49] <dwd> Ge0rG, You're not making the argument you think you are there.
[08:27:34] <Ge0rG> dwd: I'm not sure I wanted to make an argument at all
[08:27:37] <dwd> Ge0rG, First bullet-point in XEP-0045§3.
[08:28:23] <Ge0rG> dwd: that is not normative
[08:28:52] <dwd> Ge0rG, What? Why not?
[08:28:55] <Zash> > For the sake of backwards-compatibility [with] groupchat 1.0
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[08:29:21] <dwd> Zash, That is indeed the rationale for the requirement stated.
[08:29:40] <Ge0rG> dwd: it merely states a result of some historical quirks, it doesn't require that a MUC MUST have that form.
[08:29:48] <Zash> dwd: How does that translate into bare host rooms being forbidden?
[08:30:00] <dwd> Ge0rG, You think unless it uses a mystical incantation of RFC 2119 you can ignore it?
[08:30:24] <Ge0rG> dwd: I think that "well written" and "XEP 0045" don't belong into the same sentence.
[08:30:29] <dwd> Zash, It says they're requirements. Seems they're probably required. Whether that's a good idea or not is an entirely different matter.
[08:30:30] <Zash> dwd: What, and here I was just grepping for MUST and ignored everything else! :)
[08:31:15] <zinid> yeah, this is very important problem: should a room have node part? it should be resolved asap!
[08:31:17] <Zash> dwd: But does that mean you need to support room@host or *only* room@host?
[08:31:25] *Zash mumbles on about ambiguity
[08:32:01] <Ge0rG> dwd: there is no requirement that the room name must be non-empty
[08:32:12] <dwd> Zash, It's there as a statement of fact: "Each room is identified as a "room JID" <room@service>", so I'd say if a room cannot be so identified it's not conformant to the spec.
[08:32:33] <dwd> Ge0rG, Yes there is, the local-part of a jid cannot be zero-length.
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[08:33:33] <dwd> Zash, I'm not saying this is a sensible requirement, or that it wouldn't work any other way. I'm merely saying that this is what the XEP says.
[08:33:58] <Ge0rG> except the XEP is not very clear in its wording
[08:34:29] <zinid> Ge0rG: "each room is identified"
[08:34:35] <zinid> isn't this clear?
[08:34:47] <dwd> Zash, But anyway. It says nothing I can find on the subject of what the occupant's real jids are (though it infers they're full jids a few times, it never states this as a requirement).
[08:35:13] <Zash> So MUC at bare host aren't rooms, but special magical hidden places for cool people only! :)
[08:35:15] <zinid> of course, "MUST be of <room@server>" would be clearly, but XEP authors prefer very long sentence with cryptic words :)
[08:35:23] <Zash> dwd: Shiny
[08:35:39] <Ge0rG> Zash: XEP authors are people, too
[08:36:26] <Zash> dwd: So nothing prevents a server from just sending one join stanza, then keeping track of which local resources have joined, forking incoming groupchats as needed
[08:37:01] <Ge0rG> Zash: so you are moving MSN from the MUC to the user's server
[08:37:05] <dwd> zinid, "Each room MUST be identified as" would be longer, not shorter. But FWIW, I really hate littering a document with RFC 2119 language, and prefer to use it more sparingly to highlight more subtle cases.
[08:37:06] <Zash> Which also means it can easily do MAM without a mess
[08:37:11] <Zash> Ge0rG: Pretty much, yes
[08:37:29] <Ge0rG> Zash: and MUC-PMs
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[08:37:41] <Ge0rG> But it would probably break biboumi in surprising ways
[08:37:43] <dwd> Zash, More or less. But presence would remain a mess. And if you avoided that, you're getting very close to MIX.
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[08:38:08] <Zash> dwd: Why I called my draft code "minimix" :)
[08:38:41] <Ge0rG> Zash: write it in a way that you can plug it into MUC or into the server, and fix nick changes etc.
[08:38:45] <Ge0rG> and presence priority.
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[08:39:11] <zinid> dwd: I just wanted to say that would be great to have shorter sentences with simplier words, think about non-native speakers
[08:39:20] <zinid> dwd: I recall there is even RFC stating that
[08:39:33] <Ge0rG> zinid: there is a reason for so many Shakespeare references in the XEPs.
[08:39:34] <dwd> zinid, Yes, I agree simple sentences are better.
[08:39:50] <zinid> Ge0rG: to promote English culture?
[08:40:06] <dwd> zinid, Even though its an American doing so, most of the time.
[08:40:35] <dwd> zinid, I'd be tempted, myself, to use Tolstoy. More characters, for a start.
[08:40:54] <zinid> dwd: but this is clearly your move :P In other RFCs are just used Bob and Alice
[08:41:09] <Ge0rG> dwd: that reminds me of http://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm
[08:41:48] <dwd> zinid, Also, I read War and Peace (and various other Tolstoy, Chekov, Dostoyevsky) back in my teens and cannot remember the characters anymore.
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[08:43:24] <zinid> dwd: lol, I didn't even read them :D
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[08:44:42] <dwd> zinid, Well, I did read them in English, in fairness.
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[13:07:11] <SamWhited> I think I skipped War and Peace in highschool, but Anna Karenina is still one of my favorite books.
[13:07:57] <SamWhited> zinid: what servers in Go gave you trouble? One of Go's features is that it makes resource leaks hard, so that surprises me.
[13:08:22] <zinid> SamWhited: ipfs
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[13:10:16] <zinid> https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/4312
[13:10:26] <zinid> one of the point is memory leaking
[13:10:48] <zinid> gc performance sucks also
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[13:11:52] <SamWhited> How did they manage that? Go's gc can correct a 50 gig heap in under 10ms in most cases
[13:11:58] <SamWhited> *collect
[13:12:19] <zinid> is it from Google's advertisement? :)
[13:12:26] <Holger> Complex systems run into memory leaks more or less easily no matter what the language, no?
[13:12:45] <SamWhited> No, it's from data I've seen in prod.
[13:13:17] <zinid> Holger: we have ejabberd with several month uptime without leaking for example
[13:13:39] <zinid> yes, the consumption might be high, but not leaking
[13:13:41] <Holger> zinid: Yes sure, I'm not saying all complex systems are leaking :-)
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[13:14:09] <Ge0rG> All complex systems are leaking, just at different speeds ;)
[13:14:12] <Holger> But if you get something wrong, i.e. if you accumulate references to blobs over time, no GC in the world will save you from that.
[13:14:33] <SamWhited> I'm reasonably sure none of these things have anything to do with the language though; you can't have a traditional memory leak in go because there's gc, but if you always add things to an append only list and keep a reverence forever then obviously there's nothing the language can do
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[13:15:48] <SamWhited> You can leak resources in Go, eg. forget to close a file descriptor or have an infinitely looping coroutine, but defer/close makes that pretty hard to do.
[13:16:10] <zinid> the point is that it doesn't matter how you leak it
[13:16:19] <zinid> also, would be great to have tools
[13:16:24] <zinid> to see where is leaking
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[13:16:36] <zinid> and looking at IPFS guys there are no such tools :)
[13:16:47] <SamWhited> It does if you're going to blame the language, because if it's a bug I'd like to fix it. What kind of tools?
[13:16:59] <SamWhited> There is extensive tooling for that
[13:17:14] <zinid> https://github.com/ipfs/go-ipfs/issues/3532
[13:17:21] <zinid> one year already, with several duplicates
[13:17:36] <zinid> you might want to suggest them the tool :)
[13:17:58] <Zash> Tooling for what, exactly?
[13:18:55] <SamWhited> I will, that sounds like the ipfs people just don't know what they're doing. Pprof can ve used to monitor the heap size, and all Go binaries have built in gc logging (you can set an environment variable and they'll dump runtime statistics)
[13:20:33] <Holger> I'm not sure Go servers will typically use goroutines in a similar way to Erlang processes. If so I'd want tools to query resource usage and state of individual goroutines (or groups of them), to modify the state, to kill them; or I'll return to Erlang :-)
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[13:21:28] <Zash> I want tools too
[13:21:51] <SamWhited> Holger: I don't think it makes sense to do that, they're much lighter weight and you might have multiple per task, but you could.
[13:22:07] <Holger> Zash: Says the Lua programmer ... :-)
[13:22:27] <Holger> SamWhited: Much leighter weight than what? It makes a *lot* of sense in Erlang.
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[13:23:01] <SamWhited> It doesn't make sense in Go, I mean. Go's coroutines are lighter weight.
[13:23:09] <Holger> Than what :-)
[13:23:30] <Holger> If you're a server, would you typically use a goroutine to handle a client connection?
[13:23:42] <SamWhited> Yes, maybe several.
[13:23:44] <Holger> If so you will of course take advantage of being able to introspect that at runtime.
[13:24:51] <SamWhited> Yes, it's certainly not as easy as in a dynamic language, but there are process monitoring tools to show you long running goroutines
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[13:25:25] <SamWhited> Monitoring is common, manually killing or changing the state isn't, it's not a dynamic language. Although there are debuggers that can do that, I guess.
[13:25:51] <SamWhited> Well, monitoring is as easy, mutating isn't.
[13:27:48] <zinid> supervision can be implemented in any language
[13:28:26] <zinid> but seems like everyone copies idea of "goroutines" and think they got Erlang
[13:29:01] <Ge0rG> But everbody knows that you need overpriced special experts for Erlang and C++ projects.
[13:29:06] <zinid> lack of runtime introspection is the stopper factor for me in any such fancy language
[13:29:27] <Holger> They have hype. Go is a bit like Matrix :-)
[13:29:59] <Holger> (Well except that Go is actually successful.)
[13:30:06] <zinid> lol
[13:30:16] <zinid> fair remark :D
[13:31:20] <edhelas> Matrix is successfull, there's thousands of subscribers on their chatrooms
[13:31:33] <Zash> Shun the hype!
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[13:32:45] <zinid> edhelas: they have even me there!
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[13:32:56] <zinid> but I don't use Matrix...
[13:33:19] <Zash> edhelas: Is that an accurate indicator of success?
[13:33:30] <edhelas> zinid you're a spy on cover sent by the XSF ?
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[13:34:40] <zinid> edhelas: I used to be a spy once (or twice)
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[13:41:18] <SamWhited> I really wanted to like matrix, but the basic premise of the protocol is crap and they built it in an unsustainable way (and then were surprised when the money dried up)
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[13:47:56] <Zash> SamWhited: Why did you want to like it?
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[13:48:20] <zinid> "unsustainable way"? what do you mean? like they don't have enough resources to develop/promote/etc it?
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[13:52:20] <SamWhited> Zash: So that I could have something that was an interoperable and federated standard that wasn't our broken crap, unfortunately it never became the alternative I hoped it would
[13:52:57] <SamWhited> zinid: they had enough resources, until they didn't. It's unsustainable because they expected one company to pay them for full time developers forever
[13:53:11] <zinid> Ah
[13:53:46] <SamWhited> And we saw how that works out… not that they couldn't continue it in a more sustainable way now, but they seem to expect to still be able to be paid full time for it.
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[13:56:13] <Guus> What irks me is that it's just one implementation - done by the same people that develop the standards.
[13:56:31] <zinid> well the idea that a single company controls a *federated* protocol is broken
[13:56:52] <Guus> not sure if it's broken - but it does not bode well.
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[13:57:12] <SamWhited> Yah, I hoped they'd get other implementations later, but it wasn't a healthy ecosystem
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[13:59:10] <edhelas> what about OStatus/ActivityPub ?
[13:59:27] <zinid> from innovative perspective I used to find Tox even more interesting than Matrix, but it's dead too
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[13:59:55] <zinid> There is Ring.cx, but buggy as hell
[14:00:30] <edhelas> Ring is interesting but unfortunately their architecture prevent them to have advanced features
[14:00:44] <edhelas> like history, sync and profiles
[14:01:16] <edhelas> you cannot compare apples and oranges
[14:01:17] <zinid> edhelas: I think it's possible with dumb servers
[14:01:43] <zinid> Aka backup servers
[14:02:02] <edhelas> WhatsApp like
[14:02:17] <zinid> Well it scales good
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[14:02:48] <Zash> Talking about p2p with servers?
[14:03:03] <edhelas> nah
[14:03:06] <zinid> Zash: hybrid
[14:03:21] <zinid> But more p2pish
[14:03:27] <edhelas> the whatsapp accounts are bound to the devices
[14:03:48] <edhelas> so to sync history between devices, or migrating them they use "backup servers"
[14:04:34] <Zash> Like Skype?
[14:04:57] <zinid> You see, if you have several devices you can synchronize yourself, you don't even need backups
[14:05:31] <edhelas> Skype is now a dumb centralized service since Microsoft bought them
[14:05:46] <Zash> Any client dev interested in doing client to client MAM?
[14:06:08] <edhelas> but why :D
[14:06:08] <zinid> And if all your devices offline and someone sent you a message, you will request it on login (via Delta from the contact)
[14:06:24] <Zash> edhelas: IIRC they switched it to the MSN infrastructure
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[14:07:44] <zinid> So backups might not even be needed, at least for everyone
[14:08:25] <zinid> There is a problem with conferences in such system tho
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[14:52:25] <dwd> As edhelas says, Skype centralized a while back, mostly because of mobile devices.
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[15:03:39] <zinid> dwd: yes, mobile complicates everything, especially ios restrictions
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[17:10:18] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:10:20] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[17:12:23] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:12:27] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:13:09] *** Syndace has joined the room
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[17:17:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:22:02] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:22:06] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[17:23:06] *** jubalh has left the room
[17:23:35] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[17:23:40] *** Alex has left the room
[17:25:31] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[17:25:31] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[17:26:08] *** tux shows as "online"
[17:26:36] *** jubalh has left the room
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[17:29:03] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[17:30:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:32:01] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:33:25] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[17:33:26] *** Guus has left the room
[17:33:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:35:42] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[17:35:50] *** jubalh has left the room
[17:39:34] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:39:35] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:40:19] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:41:41] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[17:44:10] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[17:44:13] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[17:46:45] *** Kev has left the room
[17:48:45] *** Kev shows as "online"
[17:56:55] *** jubalh has joined the room
[17:59:01] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:59:13] *** zinid has left the room
[17:59:18] *** zinid shows as "online"
[18:02:23] *** tux has left the room
[18:02:24] *** tux shows as "online"
[18:02:35] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:02:36] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:03:37] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:03:41] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[18:10:30] *** sonny has joined the room
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[18:13:25] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[18:13:31] *** jubalh has left the room
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[18:15:00] *** nyco shows as "online"
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[18:17:50] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[18:20:03] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:21:35] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:22:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:24:01] *** Ge0rG has left the room
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[18:28:39] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:29:43] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[18:33:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:33:34] *** Alex has joined the room
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[18:39:42] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
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[18:41:35] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:42:33] *** jubalh has joined the room
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[18:42:49] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:42:53] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
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[18:51:35] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:52:42] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[18:53:56] *** intosi has joined the room
[18:53:58] *** intosi shows as "online"
[18:54:13] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
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[18:56:29] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:56:59] *** jcbrand has joined the room
[18:57:03] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[19:04:13] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:04:52] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:04:56] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:05:11] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:06:39] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[19:07:39] *** Valerian has left the room
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[19:12:26] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:12:26] *** daniel has joined the room
[19:12:42] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[19:13:00] *** jcbrand has joined the room
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[19:13:58] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:14:02] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[19:14:30] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[19:26:01] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:26:18] *** intosi shows as "online"
[19:30:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[19:31:08] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
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[19:35:59] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[19:36:00] *** Alex shows as "online"
[19:37:05] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[19:37:47] *** zinid has left the room
[19:37:51] *** zinid shows as "online"
[19:38:00] *** jubalh has left the room
[19:40:36] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:46:57] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:47:34] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:50:50] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:50:52] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[19:53:31] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[19:56:42] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[19:57:00] *** jubalh has left the room
[19:57:08] *** jcbrand has left the room
[19:59:10] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:59:14] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:59:36] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:01:26] *** daniel has left the room
[20:02:00] *** Alex has left the room
[20:02:12] *** daniel has joined the room
[20:02:38] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:02:41] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:05:42] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:07:40] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[20:08:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:14:55] *** SouL has left the room
[20:20:54] *** jubalh has joined the room
[20:21:13] *** jubalh has left the room
[20:22:43] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[20:22:48] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Mark Center (DC)"
[20:23:18] *** daniel has left the room
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[20:26:58] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[20:27:33] *** daniel has left the room
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[20:28:42] *** stefandxm shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[20:29:38] *** waqas has left the room
[20:35:27] *** daniel has left the room
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[20:38:59] *** Kev shows as "online"
[20:41:30] *** daniel has left the room
[20:41:35] *** daniel has joined the room
[20:44:06] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[20:48:14] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[20:54:27] *** Kev shows as "away"
[20:59:48] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:00:08] *** jubalh has left the room
[21:00:11] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:00:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:02:03] *** tux has left the room
[21:02:04] *** jubalh has left the room
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[21:09:15] *** edhelas shows as "online"
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[21:16:34] *** jubalh has left the room
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[21:18:01] *** nyco shows as "online"
[21:18:25] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:18:35] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:18:36] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:20:59] *** ralphm has left the room
[21:21:06] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:23:21] *** stefandxm shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[21:23:50] *** ThurahT has left the room
[21:23:54] *** ThurahT has joined the room
[21:28:20] *** intosi shows as "online"
[21:28:30] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:28:58] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:28:58] *** intosi has left the room
[21:29:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Mark Center (DC)"
[21:30:39] *** ThurahT has left the room
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[21:36:39] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[21:41:04] *** jubalh has left the room
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[21:42:23] *** ThurahT has joined the room
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[21:52:31] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:52:33] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:59:17] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:06:11] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[22:07:43] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:10:30] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:10:34] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[22:10:39] *** jubalh has joined the room
[22:12:45] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[22:14:35] *** Guus has left the room
[22:14:36] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:15:10] *** Valerian has left the room
[22:16:32] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:16:36] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:21:11] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:25:57] *** arc has left the room
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[22:26:21] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[22:32:22] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:36:21] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[22:36:22] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:36:29] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:37:00] *** Valerian has joined the room
[22:38:16] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[22:38:16] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:42:15] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[22:44:55] *** Arc has joined the room
[22:48:05] *** Guus has left the room
[22:49:44] *** dwd has joined the room
[22:50:57] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:52:04] *** efrit has left the room
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[22:53:19] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:54:30] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:54:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:55:06] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:56:03] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:56:03] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[22:56:05] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:56:40] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:58:40] *** dwd has left the room
[22:58:43] *** dwd has joined the room
[23:03:07] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[23:03:32] *** dwd has left the room
[23:04:21] *** dwd has joined the room
[23:06:40] *** Guus has left the room
[23:09:17] *** dwd has left the room
[23:10:49] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:13:07] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[23:15:26] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:21:27] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[23:21:35] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[23:23:14] *** jjrh has left the room
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[23:24:09] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[23:26:10] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:26:10] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:34:49] *** Arc shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
[23:34:49] *** Arc shows as "online"
[23:36:11] *** Zash has left the room
[23:51:06] *** Arc has left the room
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