XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2017-10-26


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  16. Arc cloudflare is doing xmpp now?
  17. SamWhited no, I don't do anything related to XMPP anymore
  18. SamWhited I just gave a lunch-and-learn presentation
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  21. Arc ah ok
  22. Arc seems i dont have a wiki account anymore
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  94. Guus Arc: all accounts got lost during the crash earlier this year. We can create a new account for you.
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  114. Arc Guus: cool, ArcRiley arcriley@gmail.com would be great
  115. Arc i just thought i already had one setup since the restore
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  128. Guus Ge0rG appears to have beat me to the punch
  129. Guus There doesn't appear to be any other 'Arc' account
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  133. Arc cool. and thanks Ge0rG
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  135. Arc Guus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0oV8RzcXCI heh
  136. Arc you are in a car.
  137. Arc (needing to break the doors to a locked building, K9 reminds: you are in a car. cars can go through doors)
  138. Ge0rG Guus: sorry, I wasn't sure whether you were there.
  139. Guus I wasn't here :)
  140. Guus nor do I break into buildings using a car. :)
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  142. Kev How do you do it?
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  144. Guus Have you seen Mission Impossible, that scene where he drops in on a rope through a shaft?
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  183. zinid > I don't do anything related to XMPP anymore I don't think it's acceptable for a council member though
  184. zinid that's why we lose reality and don't understand what users/customers want
  185. Ge0rG ralphm, SamWhited: it would be great to link your presentations from https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SCAM/Material
  186. ralphm Ge0rG: do it
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  189. Ge0rG ralphm: is there a timestamp / place-of-presentation for your slide deck? Also, why is it sometimes scrolling to the right and sometimes to the bottom?
  190. Ge0rG ...and sometimes diagonally?!
  191. zinid Ge0rG: that for you not to get bored
  192. Ge0rG Ah, a second attempt made me realize that it's a kind of chapter structure
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  196. Guus good idea Ge0rG, thanks.
  197. Guus zinid: I think what Sam ment is that he's not doing anything related to XMPP in his day-job.
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  199. zinid Guus: so he doesn't depend financially
  200. jonasw which is ... a good thing, right?
  201. Ge0rG I've always dreamed of getting paid for doing XMPP.
  202. Guus which is kind of irrelevant, I'd say.
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  204. Guus Ge0rG: make it so!
  205. zinid I disagree here, it's a bad thing
  206. Ge0rG Yesterday I was in a pitch presentation for a large project tender, and had a list of my CVEs on a slide (some of which are very XMPP-related). the customer asked whether I collaborated on those and was really surprised that I was the one who actually researched them.
  207. zinid it's easy to say "hey, let's deprecate everything" when you're not responsible for anything
  208. Ge0rG zinid: I think that most people in here actually attempt to make XMPP better.
  209. zinid Ge0rG: well, then you need to try harder :) because xmpp is degrading
  210. Ge0rG And there are horrible things in XMPP that well deserve to get deprecated. I'm just not sure if XHTML-IM is one of them.
  211. jonasw zinid, you don’t need to do XMPP in your day-job to have incentive to make things right.
  212. zinid jonasw: but I still think that there are more incentives if you do that job
  213. Guus also, "not getting paid for anything" doesn't equal "not taking responsibility"
  214. Ge0rG zinid: actually, if you are getting paid for XMPP related work, this is adding bias to your opinion, making it potentially worse for XMPP.
  215. jonasw zinid, hm, that’s different for different people I suppose.
  216. Guus not getting paid to do something can also avoid being pressured into something that's commercially interesting, but affects the larger community badly.
  217. jonasw I’m more with Ge0rG on this
  218. Guus so, I think it's good to have a nice mix of people in here :)
  219. Ge0rG a MIX of people?
  220. zinid Ge0rG: bias is good actually, and we should rely on consensus
  221. Guus Ge0rG: d'oh!
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  224. Ge0rG zinid: are you paid to say that?
  225. zinid Ge0rG: nice try ;)
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  232. Kev I think you want interested, intelligent, knowledgeable and responsible people, and whether they're paid for XMPP or not isn't the most important thing.
  233. jonasw I agree
  234. Kev You can have a ludicrous bias with or without being paid.
  235. Kev And you can be disinterested or not particularly knowledgeable in XMPP despite being paid for it.
  236. Wiktor Maybe let's not take this too extremes but there is a difference when someone runs a business critical system on top of XMPP vs hobby projects. Not to say hobby projects are bad, I'm using them daily, but depending on XMPP also gives unique perspective that is not to be ignored.
  237. jonasw Wiktor, if you’re like me: I’m more invested in my hobby projects than in my dayjob.
  238. Wiktor Yeah, but do you want xmpp to be only hobbyists network?
  239. jonasw not necessarily, but the use-cases are the same, no matter who’s running the development, aren’t they?
  240. Zash Is it an either-or?
  241. Ge0rG jonasw: sorry to hear that. We are hiring :P
  242. jonasw Ge0rG, I know
  243. jonasw you have been taken into consideration, but I’m waiting for the offer of the local company ;-)
  244. Wiktor Zash: it is not but it's important to hear both sides, if you had hobbyists only in XSF that'd be dangerous IMO
  245. jonasw Wiktor, sure, but it shouldn’t in any way be a criteria for or against council membership.
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  247. Wiktor jonasw: yes, definitely not, especially if Sam is already evangelizing XMPP, but I hope not everyone in the council is doing xmpp as a side project, that'd be... Almost like matrix! ;)
  248. zinid are there any guys in council who actually get paid?
  249. zinid ah, Kev
  250. Ge0rG zinid: paid for being on council? Or for working on XMPP?
  251. zinid working on xmpp
  252. Ge0rG I once got two days off for attending Summit, but it required some discussing with my boss.
  253. Wiktor zinid: you're not running for a member? you'd be a perfect 10th man ( https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/12616/ )
  254. Ge0rG Wiktor: that sounds like emergency law or law of war.
  255. zinid lol, I don't know what membership gives me except some boring beuracracy stuff (like polling)
  256. Ge0rG zinid: it's like with political elections. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain about the people who got elected and their actions.
  257. Ge0rG Okay, Russia is probably different in that regard :>
  258. zinid lol
  259. zinid and it's so hard to elect a council in a more democratic way? why one would be a member for that?
  260. Wiktor Ge0rG: I've heard voices that software development is similar to warfighting: https://youtu.be/2u0sNRO-QKQ?t=34m32s
  261. Ge0rG ,oO( http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-290455-galleryV9-gxvy-290455.jpg )
  262. zinid typical russian elections
  263. Guus > I think you want interested, intelligent, knowledgeable and responsible people
  264. Guus all feats combined in a person? *quietly revokes candidacy*
  265. Link Mauve “09:42:25 zinid> […] I don't think it's acceptable for a council member though”, I’m not doing anything XMPP-related at $dayjob either, it probably reduces the conflicts of interest, but I don’t think people who are doing it are bad either, it’s just different perspectives.
  266. Guus and it's good to have a mix of different perspectives.
  267. Zash This.
  268. Link Mauve “10:58:57 Wiktor> […] I hope not everyone in the council is doing xmpp as a side project, that'd be... Almost like matrix! ;)”, what do you mean by that? Just like jonasw I am generally more interested in my side projects (otherwise I’d do something else with my free time ^^), even though I have to be at work eight hours a day.
  269. Link Mauve “11:07:27 Ge0rG> zinid: it's like with political elections. If you don't vote, you have no right to complain about the people who got elected and their actions.”, I strongly disagree on this, when no choices are proposed to you, that’s not an election and you have full rights to complain before, during and after that simulacre.
  270. Kev > not necessarily, but the use-cases are the same, no matter who’s running the development, aren’t they? Very much not.
  271. Wiktor Link Mauve: I mean that for a healthy project you probably need some kind of push to a business success, it's like "analysis paralysis", sometimes you need to make things pragmatic. Don't get me wrong I also spend a lot of time polishing my side projects but the best approach is a balanced approach :)
  272. Kev zinid: Of the people currently on Council, at least three currently are paid for XMPP work, and one other was in the past.
  273. Zash Kev: Wouldn't it vary depending on what they are doing?
  274. Kev Zash: I don't think so. I think hobbyists don't tend to address some of the requirements that are not-fun, in the general case.
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  277. Kev In principle a hobbyist might do such things, but it's not tremendously likely.
  278. zinid agreed, and we have examples for this
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  280. zinid also, bussiness tends to make things faster because of financial pressure
  281. zinid for example we in p1 had push support since 2008 or so, while XSF still didn't produce anything meaningful
  282. Ge0rG ...to hack things together in a more or less working way
  283. Link Mauve zinid, from what I’ve seen, when there is pressure to make something, a business will abandon its principles and hack something which is most likely harmful to the long term.
  284. Kev I don't see why 'hack something in' and 'harmful long term' have to be linked.
  285. Zash Don't be evil.
  286. Link Mauve We’ve consciously done development that was going to be impossible to upstream next, just because a customer wanted it fast.
  287. Kev Hacking something in that's not long-term suitable is actually a good way of getting experience and feeding into a 'correct' fix.
  288. Link Mauve Kev, sure, but when we have the time we prototype something and then do it the correct way.
  289. Link Mauve Not spending time polishing the prototype.
  290. pep. Zash, No bullshit, since 1999
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  294. Guus did anyone take minutes during yesterdays board meeting?
  295. Guus ah, Edwin fixed the logs
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  304. Guus People, to get some feel of who's interested in joining us in Brussels for Summit 22 and/or FOSDEM, I'd appreciate if you guys sign up on the corresponding wiki pages: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_22 and FOSDEM_2018
  305. Guus this will help SCAM to get an indication of the amount of people + required housing etc.
  306. Guus also, thoughts on content, please, share!
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  308. Guus (copy and pasting is hard. Here's the proper FOSDEM 2018 wiki page link: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2018 )
  309. Ge0rG It would be great to have a discussion of what's broken in XMPP, but I'm not sure I can attend
  310. Guus We'll do proper announcements on the mailing lists soon.
  311. Guus Ge0rG: in the interest of perception: let's have a discussion on fixes. :)
  312. Ge0rG Guus: we can't discuss fixes before having a consensus on the problems, right?
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  315. Guus Sure. I'm just suggesting to word it differently. Starting off in a negative frame will likely hurt.
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  317. Ge0rG Guus: "Making XMPP ready for the next decade"?
  318. Guus "You're an ass!" vs "You'd be more awesome if you'd ...."
  319. Ge0rG Though "Making XMPP ready for the last decade" would be technically more accurate.
  320. jonasw .oO(previous decade rather)
  321. Ge0rG jonasw: ✋
  322. Guus Guys, don't want to sound like anyone's dad (or project lead, or scrum master) but I think that funny-yet-negative remarks can annoy/upset some people - even while they're not intended to do so. Let's try to keep things on the + side of things.
  323. jonasw Guus, I agree
  324. Guus there's a distinct negative vibe that we really should try to get rid of.
  325. Guus I'm not blaming you guys specifically at all, but it's the little stuff like this that I think we can all improve on.
  326. Ge0rG Guus: your scrum dad attitude is much appreciated.
  327. Guus Thank you. I shall be organizing retrospectives soon.
  328. jonasw so I need to figure out whether I want to go to that summit
  329. jonasw I do want, in some way, but stress
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  331. jonasw (would also be an excellent use for my remaining vacation day)
  332. Guus so you need to figure out how you can make it :)
  333. jonasw kindof
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  335. Guus jonasw: some employers will cover some of the attendance, when asked
  336. jonasw Guus, I’m not *that* employed yet (just a student)
  337. Guus who's in charge of your vacation day budget then?
  338. Guus (apart from yourself :P )
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  341. Guus attending stuff like this is an excellent way to improve various skills that can-be-defined-in-a-way-that-suits-your-vaction-day-decision-maker-best ;)
  342. Guus also: it's good fun :)
  343. Guus ugh, 13:30 and I still need to get started with work
  344. jonasw Guus, sure, employer, but I work like 8h/week due to being a student.
  345. jonasw I doubt that they would cover any conference based on that
  346. jonasw (which also means that vacation day == vacation week for me)
  347. Guus I see
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  352. Ge0rG jonasw: you might get funding from your university.
  353. Ge0rG jonasw: depends on the budget situation of course, but it might be possible. At my former institute, that would probably have worked if I made a presentation there.
  354. jonasw Ge0rG, I’m not really close to any department, so that’d be kind of out-of-the-blue there
  355. jonasw funding also isn’t the issue for now, I need to figure out whether I want to stay at a hotel and all that
  356. jonasw I usually don’t want that
  357. Ge0rG has a large collection of hotel giveaway pens
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  359. Guus jonasw: we'll likely arrange for a group discount, in which you'll have your own room, against a reduced price.
  360. jonasw as I said, budget is not necessarily an issue. the circumstances of a hotel (or other non-home accomodation, I really like my own bed) stay are.
  361. Guus jonasw: that, I cannot change :) If it's any comfort: last years hotel was pretty nice!
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  382. Guus dwd, could you re-join open_chat? We've deployed that XMPP parse PR there
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  402. vanitasvitae Looks like my xmpp-wiki account became victim to the death of the server. Who can I contact for a new account?
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  408. Ge0rG vanitasvitae: me or Guus for example
  409. Ge0rG vanitasvitae: just say your anticipated user name and email address in here :)
  410. vanitasvitae Ah, I'll ask Guus, since he's in my roster :D
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  421. jjrh Has anyone worked with broadsoft's UC (unified communications) platform? My understanding it it's all XMPP but finding much about it - like what XEP's they support - hasn't been easy
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  424. jjrh actually this should probably be asked in operators - sorry
  425. Link Mauve Arc, arc, could you share the sources of your Prosody flyer with SCAM (and us)? I’d like to translate it to French and distribute it at an upcoming event.
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  429. Arc youre referring to http://www.sheut.net/xmpp_guide_2017.pdf ?
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  431. Link Mauve Yes, this one.
  432. Arc if so change the end to _1.svg and _2.svg for the two sides, tho im not certain that's the best source format
  433. Arc the pdf might be better
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  435. Link Mauve Did you create it directly in SVG?
  436. Arc inkscape yea
  437. Arc then saved it to pdf, and used a command line tool to combine the two pages for printing
  438. Link Mauve Perfect, it works fine in Inkscape!
  439. jjrh maybe throw on https://check.messaging.one/index.php to test?
  440. jjrh oh I guess xmpp.net directs you there
  441. Arc we're less than an hour before GCI is announced
  442. Guus https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/SCAM/Material <-- Arc's pdf was already in there, but please, add source files if available.
  443. Arc its possible we wont be in this year, which frees up my winter considerably
  444. Guus did we even apply for GCI?
  445. Arc no but copyleft games did, and we always have XMPP tasks
  446. Guus ah, cool
  447. Arc Link Mauve: can you update your diecut sticker template for the new logo?
  448. Guus got to pick up the kids, ttyl
  449. Link Mauve Arc, which one?
  450. Guus Link Mauve, maybe delete it and use https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/xmpp.org-theme/static/images/xmpp-logo.svg instead?
  451. Guus having a canonical version is good :)
  452. Link Mauve Right.
  453. Guus I'll update the SCAM repo (still points to your site)
  454. Arc Link Mauve: Die-cut logo (roughly 2x2 inch) Take an image of the logo, like the one on https://linkmauve.fr/svg/xmpp.svg
  455. Guus Arc: I just replaced that link
  456. Guus really got to pick up the kids now :)
  457. Guus later
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  461. Link Mauve There, fixed. :)
  462. Link Mauve I also removed a duplicate for the gradient, it’s the same on both sides so it’s better to have only one.
  463. SamWhited Guus: if you still want them, I put the slides I used yesterday: https://bitbucket.org/SamWhited/xmpp-intro-slides/downloads/
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  466. pep. Arc, your(?) http server does serve over tls :(
  467. pep. Arc, your(?) http server doesn't serve over tls :(
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  476. Ge0rG SamWhited: just noticed a typo on your cloudflare_slides, "Mobile Considerations" is 0286 and not 0268 :)
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  478. SamWhited oops, thanks
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  480. SamWhited I should change those anyways; the XEPs I used were for the same presentation somewhere else, for more general things where people don't care about any specific XMPP thing I should probably just do big XEPs that are nice fancy features (Jingle, MAM, MUC, etc.)
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  484. Arc pep.: sheut.net? no it doesnt
  485. Arc pep.: the server itself supports TLS and runs it for other domains, but not this one.
  486. Arc and we're NOT in GCI this year.
  487. Ge0rG Jingle and PubSub. The apogee of XMPP.
  488. pep. Arc, yeah I've noticed it doesn't
  489. Arc pep.: congrats, you noticed
  490. Arc why does it matter to you
  491. pep. Because there's a link and I wanted to click on it. *compulsive clicker*
  492. pep. But now that I know it doesn't support tls, there's still the link, but I can't see the other side. sadness
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  495. Guus SamWhited: a link to your slides were already added to the SCAM repo
  496. SamWhited Oh, well that link is probably broken now unless you rehosted them somewhere
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  501. Guus Can you update it please? I'm on mobile mow
  502. Guus Now
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  504. Guus Link to the wiki based repo was posted earlier
  505. SamWhited I don't have any "earlier" because mcabber (unless it was very recently earlier) :(
  506. SamWhited found it though
  507. SamWhited oh, that was the right link anyways, it just didn't actually have up-to-date slides in it until just now
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  510. Arc pep.: you have it set so you can only view TLS?
  511. Arc tisk, tisk
  512. Arc now I know how to keep you out of my links :-P
  513. pep. :(
  514. pep. I'm not sure I get what people have against TLS
  515. pep. Arc, I could if I wanted, I just filter them. (manually still, even if httpseverwhere helps, but only on the browser)
  516. Arc i dont have anything against TLS. its just not automatic, and I don't think every domain warrants it
  517. pep. I think every public domain should
  518. Arc well, feel free to do it on your own domains
  519. Arc i would rather spend the time I would otherwise spend maintaining TLS certs, writing code
  520. pep. I wouldn't mind taking time and helping you, but I'm sure you know how to do it already :)
  521. Arc that's not an obsession I have
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  523. Link Mauve Arc, once it is setup, there is no maintainance.
  524. Arc if a domain has a xmpp server on it, it gets a TLS cert.
  525. Link Mauve And if a domain has an HTTP server on it, same, that way everyone is happy. :)
  526. pep. Arc, why would xmpp require a cert and not http
  527. Arc Link Mauve: that's complete bullshit. seriously. TLS certs expire. There's a duty to care that they don't expire, and to fix them when the scripts fail to perform as expected. Its a time investment I'm not going to put into every domain I have
  528. pep. Maybe you haven't heard of the new chap in town, let's encrypt
  529. Arc pep.: I use lets encrypt. it is not flawless, ive found my scripts for it break about once a year
  530. Zash It solves *all* problems!!
  531. pep. Zash, all!
  532. jonasw I've got monitoring set up for my domains, adding one with tls is O(1), but then again I'm an infrastructure nerd.
  533. Arc i just spent 3 days fixing a host of domains that it broke on, and because the domains were set to use https only, and because the certs were expired, letsencrypt couldn't renew them without reconfiguring the domains to non-https first
  534. pep. bootstrap is annoying indeed
  535. Arc if a domain has a login, or has anything private, sure. if it has xmpp, sure. those are valid reasons.
  536. jonasw I've never seen letsencrypt break though, with lego.
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  538. pep. But you should serve on 80 and 443 anyway, you can redirect 80 to 443, but have /.well-known/acme-challenge go to whatever folder letsencrypt requires
  539. Arc pep.: again, this is your obsession, not mine.
  540. SamWhited If you're really this concerned about a little personal domain that someone else rusn I question the validity of your threat model.
  541. pep. SamWhited, it's just one part of it
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  543. Arc sheut.net is my personal LAN domain. www.sheut.net <http://www.sheut.net> is used for sharing tiny files on non-indexed URLs
  544. Arc www.sheut.net <http://www.sheut.net> gives a 403 Forbidden
  545. la|r|ma has joined
  546. Arc but if you really want to get into a infrastucture pissing contest, I'd love to get into it on IPv6 :-P
  547. pep. Sure, I have ip6 at home and at work as well
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  550. Zash Something something self-hosting DNSSEC, mumble
  551. pep. But that's not the point here anyway
  552. Arc i dont host anything unless it has an ipv6 address
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  554. Link Mauve Arc, it seems to work in IPv6 from here.
  555. Arc Link Mauve: i would expect as such, since its hosted by he.net
  556. Arc I have a VPN into he.net too, with native ipv6
  557. pep. You mean you have native ip6 _and_ the vpn?
  558. Arc i have native ipv6 at he.net and at home. but with the vpn i have layer 3 native ipv6 everywhere i go
  559. Arc if I'm at starbucks I have ipv6
  560. pep. Anyway, my concern about tls is that every one who enables it help "cover the tracks" (or however you want to call it) for any other concerned person.
  561. pep. Anyway, my concern about tls is that every one who enables it helps "cover the tracks" (or however you want to call it) for any other concerned person.
  562. Arc then dont load my links :-P
  563. Link Mauve Another reason is to avoid an evil MitM from seeing what we download, or even from tampering with them.
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  565. pep. Arc, the thing is that it's not just about you
  566. Arc uh-huh. ok I'm done engaging in this conversation
  567. Arc im reading up on ALPN API callbacks in openssl this morning
  568. Ge0rG IT systems have fractal complexity.
  569. jjrh Arc, you have a 6in4 tunnel or you have a VPN that gives you a native v6 address?
  570. Arc jjrh: I have a layer 2 VPN into a native dual stack network running in my own server cabinet at he.net
  571. jjrh ah - nice :)
  572. Arc my home network is pretty awful, the owner *THINKS* he knows enough to do it, but the IPv4 LAN ip block is 192.169.0.0/16
  573. jjrh does that play nice on android?
  574. Arc there are currently 9 active devices on it, 2 of them are printers.
  575. Arc jjrh: yep. my phone is on it.
  576. jjrh I like the idea - might look into it myself. Make some things much easier
  577. Arc the biggest reason is being able to SSH into any system, from any of my systems, anywhere i happen to be
  578. stefandxm has left
  579. Arc my car has native IPv6 wifi
  580. jjrh Yeah I would use sixxs for that (before it shutdown) haven't got around to configuring a HE tunnel for my laptop yet
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  582. Arc jjrh: im not sure HE runs that service anymore, but I'm happy to offer a VPN operated on your own physical ARM microserver
  583. jjrh HE still runs their 6in4 tunnel
  584. Arc 1 IPv4 address, /64 IPv6
  585. Arc ah cool.
  586. jjrh https://tunnelbroker.net/ yeah tunnel broker is still live - sixxs died last year
  587. Arc HE are good people, ive hosted with them for almost a decade now
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  589. jjrh I still have a subnet from them before I had native v6 at home just haven't configured it for my laptop, and I don't believe the daemon (forget what HE uses - not aiccu) runs on android so a VPN I guess is my only option
  590. jjrh whats the VPN protocol you're using?
  591. Arc openvpn
  592. jjrh ah
  593. Arc bbiab need to drive
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  637. Zash > If the UID contained within an <after> or <before> is not present in the archive, the server MUST return an item-not-found error Has this changed? I distinctly remember that you were to behave as if the ids were outside the range of the archive
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  642. Zash And when did 'stable' appear?
  643. zinid > we can't discuss fixes before having a consensus on the problems, right? we can't reach an agreement on something we almost don't discuss
  644. Arc zinid: context would be good
  645. zinid Arc: what context? there are pending topics in the ML where Ge0rG provided some summary, but it's virtually not discussed
  646. arc has joined
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  648. zinid anyway, since we're done with xhtml-im ranting, can we discuss problems of push notifications finally?
  649. zinid some devs disagree there should be any pubsub, so the suggestion is to get rid of it
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  654. Arc zinid: xhtml-im discussion will continue until the XEP is retired with prejudice. the topic has only gone to sleep for X weeks, it will reawaken
  655. Arc the webchat im working on does not, and will not support it.
  656. zinid Arc: I don't give a shit actually
  657. Arc there are simply too many surfaces to protect against
  658. zinid Arc: I care about other topics
  659. Arc ok so what topic are you referring to
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  663. zinid Arc: I already said about the topic
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  665. SamWhited I am preparing an email to gather requirements for a potential XHTML-IM replacement. Afterwards hopefully we can discuss how the alternative could also be safer.
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  669. Arc SamWhited: we did a trial on that last year, it was very successful
  670. Arc media attachments
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  672. ThurahT why are there cloudflare logos in the scam pdf slides? Is cloudfare a huge sponsor to the xsf?
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  676. SamWhited I work there and I was the one giving the presentation
  677. Arc and giving it internally iirc
  678. ThurahT but cloudflare has nothing to do with the xsf in general?
  679. SamWhited not as far as I know
  680. ThurahT ah. Good.
  681. Guus has left
  682. SamWhited but yah, putting the place paying for you to be at the conference on your slides is just habit (though in this case I wasn't anywhere, so kind of pointless I guess)
  683. ThurahT I see. Thanks for clarifying
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  689. Arc SamWhited: im developing a handshake for an external authentication server, any advice?
  690. SamWhited Arc: I'm probably not the best person to ask about authentication servers, but sounds fun! :)
  691. Arc sending a client's connection info, TLS cert when available, and having it take over the SASL component
  692. waqas has left
  693. Arc also in-band registration, when supported
  694. SamWhited That sounds cool; is this to use LDAP or some other directory thing?
  695. Guus has left
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  697. Arc the idea is its for anything
  698. Arc allow the service to implement any authentication they want without having to edit the xmpp server, or worse, write their own
  699. SamWhited Good idea
  700. Arc OAUTH2 for example, you'll commonly want a custom auth server, even if oauth2 is already available you'll want to customize it
  701. SamWhited How would you delegate to it? Do servers give you a way to plugin stream features that delegate to another service?
  702. Arc https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html#redirect provides a simple way to send registering clients to a website url. that will need to be tightly linked to the authentication chosen.
  703. Arc SamWhited: im thinking when the server needs to auth for a user, it gives details to the auth server, which replies with the SASL mechanisms it supports. the existance of the auth server implies in-band registration and SASL are supported in the appropriate places
  704. Arc im not trying to make it a generic component
  705. Guus has left
  706. Arc though on initial connection to the auth server it could reply back with a xmpp feature set it supports.
  707. Arc i want to keep it simple, tho. not to place undue burden on implementors
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