Monday, October 30, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[10:48:15] <thomas_> Hi guys, while reading the MIX spec, I'm wondering how the roster item for the MIX channel is added to the user joining the channel if it's an external MIX server? Is the user's server supposed to scan the MIX join/leave stanzas in order to determine if the user successfully joined the channel?
[10:48:50] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:49:01] *** daniel has left the room
[10:49:04] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:49:28] *** intosi shows as "online"
[10:49:42] *** Alex shows as "online"
[10:49:54] *** Alex has left the room
[10:50:24] *** jubalh has joined the room
[10:51:02] *** daniel has left the room
[10:51:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:51:08] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:52:38] *** daniel has left the room
[10:53:16] *** daniel shows as "online"
[10:56:38] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:56:41] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[10:57:00] *** tux has joined the room
[10:58:22] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:00:20] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[11:00:52] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:06:02] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[11:06:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:06:55] *** jere has joined the room
[11:07:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:08:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[11:08:56] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[11:10:11] *** jere has left the room
[11:10:17] *** jere has joined the room
[11:10:40] <jonasw> thomas_, yes
[11:10:44] <jonasw> the server needs MIX support
[11:10:48] <jonasw> (that is, the users server)
[11:11:15] <jonasw> you may note that the join is a command sent to the users account, not to the channel the user wants to join
[11:11:21] <jonasw> see Example 22
[11:12:22] <thomas_> jonasw, oh okay, I missed that bit of information
[11:12:32] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:12:46] <thomas_> jonasw, thanks for clarifying this!
[11:13:01] <jonasw> you’re welcome!
[11:13:08] *** daniel has left the room
[11:13:18] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:13:50] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:14:37] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[11:17:24] *** efrit has joined the room
[11:18:21] *** jubalh has left the room
[11:18:48] *** daniel has left the room
[11:19:57] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:21:54] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:22:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:23:01] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[11:24:09] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[11:29:48] *** Valerian has joined the room
[11:33:11] *** dwd has left the room
[11:33:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:33:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:50] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:34:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:34:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:21] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:35:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:35:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:36:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:37:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:38:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:16] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:24] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:38] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:42] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:44] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:47] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:49] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:39:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:02] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:05] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:11] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:12] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:40:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[11:56:44] *** efrit has left the room
[11:56:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[11:57:44] *** jubalh has left the room
[11:57:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[11:58:09] *** daniel has left the room
[11:58:10] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[11:59:42] *** jubalh has joined the room
[11:59:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[12:00:00] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[12:02:26] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:02:26] *** jubalh has left the room
[12:02:27] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[12:03:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:03:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:03:23] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:03:49] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:06:06] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[12:08:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:09:19] *** daniel has left the room
[12:13:43] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:13:43] *** zinid has left the room
[12:13:43] *** jjrh has left the room
[12:13:44] *** zinid shows as "online"
[12:13:46] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[12:15:02] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[12:15:40] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[12:17:03] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:18:57] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[12:19:00] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[12:19:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:19:35] *** jubalh has joined the room
[12:20:53] *** zinid has left the room
[12:21:08] *** lumi shows as "online"
[12:21:10] *** zinid shows as "online"
[12:22:24] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:23:35] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:23:40] *** intosi shows as "online"
[12:26:38] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:29:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:29:46] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:30:17] *** sonny has left the room
[12:30:23] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:31:49] *** sonny has left the room
[12:32:29] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:35:02] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:36:01] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:40:04] *** Valerian has left the room
[12:41:45] *** sonny has left the room
[12:41:52] *** sonny has joined the room
[12:44:04] *** alacer has joined the room
[12:45:02] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[17:14:33] <moparisthebest> Is there a xep for, probably wording this wrong, a client sending messages to itself and other resources (mam/carbons) from other domains?
[17:14:59] <moparisthebest> Basically spoofing from, but only to itself
[17:15:07] <Zash> Forwarding?
[17:15:36] <jonasw> moparisthebest, why would you do that?
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[17:16:58] <moparisthebest> Ok so jmp.chat gives you a phone number for sending/receiving sms with xmpp
[17:17:21] <moparisthebest> Basically thinking the same thing as a conversations plugin
[17:17:39] <jonasw> i.e. a local transport for SMS <-> XMPP?
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[17:18:13] <jonasw> I don’t think there’s a XEP for that, but I think that’s not the worst idea.
[17:18:18] <Zash> Why not treat it as another account?
[17:18:25] <jonasw> Zash, replication to other devices
[17:18:48] <jonasw> moparisthebest, question though: how would you intercept messages sent to those SMS JIDs?
[17:18:59] <jonasw> essentially you want a component, but only for the account.
[17:19:13] <moparisthebest> Ie my phone gets SMS from 5555, I see it in conversations and all my other xmpp clients as from 5555@some.specific.fake.domain
[17:20:08] <moparisthebest> If I respond in conversations it sends it over sms, if I respond in other clients conversations sends sms when it gets the carbon?
[17:20:14] <Zash> Oh dear, is this leading to an argument for uploading into your archive?
[17:20:19] <Zash> ... like 136 hasq
[17:20:22] <Zash> ... like 136 has?
[17:20:32] <moparisthebest> So this would need a server plugin too
[17:21:13] <jonasw> moparisthebest, that carbons trick there would kindof work, but it would also create some strain on the server for error handling of stanzas it doesn’t even need to s2s-route
[17:21:17] <moparisthebest> Basically to allow a client to spoof from for a certain domain but only for that account
[17:21:18] <Zash> But, there's the forwarding xep (used for encapsulation by carbons and mam)
[17:21:45] <moparisthebest> That might work have a xep number handy?
[17:21:55] <Zash> 297 maybe? (wild guess)
[17:22:01] <jonasw> 297
[17:22:05] <jonasw> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0297.html
[17:22:07] <Zash> Bunneh: xep forwarding
[17:22:07] <Bunneh> Zash: XEP-0297: Stanza Forwarding (Standards Track, Draft, 2013-10-02)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0297.html
[17:22:22] <jonasw> it doesn’t magically give you the kind of handling you want though
[17:22:28] <moparisthebest> Because yea I'd want carbons and mam etc
[17:22:30] <jonasw> it only defines an encapsulation protocol (as re-used by carbons etc.)
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[17:23:09] <moparisthebest> This would work as a separate component of course but that had issues like this
[17:23:42] <moparisthebest> Not encrypted, different connection, separate component for each account etc etc
[17:23:51] <Zash> The architecture with transports as server components kinda breaks down when clients are also transports
[17:23:58] <jonasw> to have things well defined, you have to use this on one account only anyways
[17:23:58] <moparisthebest> Yes
[17:24:16] <jonasw> so user components are an interesting concept
[17:24:32] <jonasw> like a component, but the domain is only visible to the user
[17:24:37] <jonasw> (and other users may have the same domain)
[17:24:48] <moparisthebest> Yes that
[17:24:55] <jonasw> but that’s not specified yet
[17:26:38] <moparisthebest> Forwarding wouldn't work I think
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[17:26:53] <moparisthebest> No real great way to respond and such I think
[17:27:14] <moparisthebest> Can clients send carbons to other resources?
[17:27:56] <jonasw> yes, but those must ignore them
[17:28:03] <moparisthebest> Bunneh: xep carbons
[17:28:03] <Bunneh> moparisthebest: XEP-0280: Message Carbons (Standards Track, Proposed, 2017-02-16)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0280.html
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[17:28:18] <Zash> You probably want to invent some new protocol
[17:28:26] <Zash> There /was/ that {xep remote control}
[17:28:27] <Bunneh> Zash: XEP-0146: Remote Controlling Clients (Informational, Active, 2006-03-23)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0146.html
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[17:29:27] <moparisthebest> I'll have to abuse gajims XML console later and play around
[17:29:57] <moparisthebest> I feel like maybe carbons from other resources would be safe right?
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[17:30:47] <Zash> Broadcast is the kind of thing you want your server to help you with
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[17:31:50] <moparisthebest> I think jonasw 's description is closest to what I'm looking for, user or client components
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[17:32:07] <moparisthebest> True Zash
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[17:33:24] <moparisthebest> Hmm then you could use the phone's dialer to jingle call through it too...
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[17:33:56] <moparisthebest> Leave your cell at home and sms/call through it wherever you have an xmpp client and internet
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[17:35:12] <moparisthebest> Anyone interested in working with me on something like that? :)
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[17:43:37] <thomas_> moparisthebest, maybe I didn't get your idea but why not using a transport with <phonenumber>@transport for each phone contact?
[17:45:19] <moparisthebest> I think it could be as simple as the server advertising that the client can send messages to itself from *@*.somedomain then the server not doing s2s for *. somedomain and allowing that
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[17:46:02] <moparisthebest> thomas_: the transport is per user account and runs on one of their clients is why
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[17:46:51] <thomas_> moparisthebest, why does the transport run on a client?
[17:47:15] <Zash> It's a phone?
[17:47:34] <moparisthebest> thomas_: conversations on your phone is the only thing with access to send/recieve sms
[17:47:43] <Zash> You wanna pretend that the native SMS functionality is a component
[17:47:58] <thomas_> Oh, I though you have a device with your SIM card somewhere and want to connect via XMPP
[17:48:11] <jonasw> thomas_, the component protocol is insecure
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[17:48:30] <jonasw> that’s one reason why you don’t want to run that $somewhere
[17:48:44] <jonasw> second, if you don’t run your own server / the server is shared with multiple entities, you don’t want them to access your transport
[17:48:48] <moparisthebest> Plus it's per server not per account
[17:48:54] <jonasw> that’s what I mean, essentially
[17:49:13] <thomas_> ah okay
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[17:49:47] <moparisthebest> Hmm you could run a component that you register with and send arbitrary messages to your own account through...
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[17:50:09] <moparisthebest> Then no server changes needed
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[17:50:55] <jonasw> simj
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[17:51:00] <jonasw> kind of an echo component?
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[17:51:09] <jonasw> that would work.
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[17:51:11] <moparisthebest> Essentially yes
[17:51:16] <jonasw> a meta-component
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[17:51:21] <moparisthebest> Done extra rules but yea
[17:51:23] <jonasw> a component to create per-user components :D
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[17:51:32] <moparisthebest> Some*
[17:51:34] <jonasw> that’s quite fancy, actually, because you get stream management etc. "for free"
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[17:51:50] <moparisthebest> Yep I like simple
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[17:52:03] <Zash> You could also register a normal account and send yourself messages via that
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[17:52:17] <jonasw> Zash, you’d need one account for each phone number you text?
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[17:52:26] <moparisthebest> Zash: no you need from to be multiple accounts based on phone number
[17:52:30] <moparisthebest> Yes
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[17:52:47] <Zash> Abuse resources! :D
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[17:53:00] <jonasw> resource abuse will wreak havoc with message routing 2.0
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[17:53:16] <moparisthebest> Can't add them to your contacts though
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[17:53:19] <jonasw> (also, one connection per peer, really? ;-))
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[17:53:45] <moparisthebest> With jmp.chat it's phonenumber@cheogram.com
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[17:54:12] <jonasw> moparisthebest, you should write a XEP for this echo component with the given use-case.
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[17:54:27] <moparisthebest> This component could even be public and require no local server support
[17:54:31] <jonasw> the only thing I don’t like about it is that you can only have N components per user, where N is the number of server-side components :/
[17:54:47] <jonasw> it doesn’t even need to be a component
[17:54:54] <jonasw> you should probably not reference any component-specific protocol
[17:55:06] <jonasw> only that it is a domain-JID entity which implements that protocol
[17:55:23] <jonasw> which means that servers could also offer you *@*.local for example.
[17:55:28] <moparisthebest> I'll give it a try jonasw , I'm the type to code/test first and write specs later :)
[17:55:36] <jonasw> right
[17:55:51] <jonasw> happy to proof-read if you want to before submission.
[17:55:51] <Zash> <message to=self><forwarding><message from="number@actually.sms.invalid" to="self"><body>hi</body><////>
[17:56:25] <Zash> Thing gets wrapped in seven layers of carbons and forwarded to all your clients.
[17:56:25] <jonasw> Zash, that’s the easy part -- the tricky part is to be able to send messages to number@actually.sms.invalid
[17:56:57] <Zash> jonasw: <message to="me@self/phone"><forward><message to="number@sms"><body>HELLO<///>
[17:57:02] <moparisthebest> But being able to do component and avoid lua or erlang makes it something I can do myself at least (sorry server devs...)
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[17:57:31] <Zash> Add some caps and call it a day!
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[17:58:17] <moparisthebest> jonasw: does your Python lib do components?
[17:58:52] <moparisthebest> I've only ever used the ancient first Python lib for components
[18:00:09] <jonasw> no
[18:00:24] <jonasw> Zash, right
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[18:00:28] <jonasw> that’d work but ...
[18:00:40] <jonasw> but it would also require client support on the clients which are not the component
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[18:01:29] <Zash> Yes
[18:01:42] <jonasw> simple clients!
[18:01:55] <jonasw> (also, I’m not entirely sure how serious your proposals are)
[18:02:05] <Zash> I don't think clients are simple anymore
[18:03:28] <Zash> jonasw: On a scale from dead serious to trolling? Usually somewhere in the middle.
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[18:06:58] <zinid> > But being able to do component and avoid lua or erlang makes it something I can do myself at least
pussy detected
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[18:08:11] <Zash> jonasw: "That's my secret. I'm always joking." :D
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[18:10:31] <moparisthebest> zinid: I prefer the word 'sane' :)
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[18:11:07] <zinid> moparisthebest: writing in python is sane?
[18:11:17] <Zash> not writing everything in Lua is sane???
[18:12:02] <moparisthebest> Hoping to use rust if there are component libs, but yea point taken about Python :)
[18:12:26] <jonasw> moparisthebest, there is xmpprs or so
[18:12:30] <jonasw> not sure if it can do components
[18:12:44] <moparisthebest> Yea I've used it for a client
[18:12:45] <zinid> yeah, rust...
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[18:20:07] <moparisthebest> the component will be dead simple in any language
[18:20:45] <moparisthebest> the client will have to decide whether or not to send new SMS on carbon/mam etc, ew
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[18:59:11] <moparisthebest> next ridiculous question, is there anything defined in jingle for one resource to make a call through another resource?
[18:59:21] <moparisthebest> same account, resource A is connected to a phone line, resource B is not
[18:59:35] <moparisthebest> B wants to make a phone call, any current way to do that?
[18:59:40] <Zash> I don't think there's anything special about that
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[19:00:01] <Zash> The problem with Jingle is that it works exactly like that
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[19:00:18] <Zash> One arbitrary JID calls another arbitrary JID.
[19:00:43] <Zash> As opposed to one account calling another account.
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[19:01:44] <moparisthebest> that's not exactly what I mean though
[19:01:51] <Zash> So I don't think anything in the Jingle spec prevents two resources of the same account from establishing calls
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[19:02:20] <moparisthebest> not a call between A and B, a call between B and +1-555-555-5555 THROUGH A
[19:02:51] <moparisthebest> so the jingle session would be between A and B, but A would be, uh, forwarding through the PSTN
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[19:05:09] <Zash> There's a thing, hold on
[19:05:15] <Zash> -xep dtmf
[19:05:15] <Bunneh> Zash: XEP-0181: Jingle DTMF (Standards Track, Deferred, 2009-10-02)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0181.html
[19:05:25] <jonasw> lovely
[19:05:43] <jonasw> so you’d start a jingle call through A and send DTMF to actually dial a number
[19:06:12] <moparisthebest> ha you could I guess, maybe, not sure what android phone API looks like
[19:06:21] <Zash> Like, whatever it's called when you call somewhere and go into an answering machine that you type more numbers into to get passed on
[19:06:25] <jonasw> moparisthebest, but I don’t think you need special protocol for that. you’d contact the gateway client at its pseudo-JID at the component and it would re-write the jingle connection negotiation messages accordingly so that the call is routed through it
[19:06:50] <Zash> Maybe you need to find/invent some way to tell the other end to proxy you
[19:07:13] <Zash> But, isn't that basically how PSTN works (or used to, way back in the analog era)?
[19:07:13] <jonasw> don’t need to, it’s already proxied through the pseudo-JID magic
[19:07:45] <moparisthebest> hmm not sure I kind of imagined them seperately
[19:08:01] <moparisthebest> that would probably be best, have to think about it
[19:08:02] <Zash> -xep rayo
[19:08:02] <Bunneh> Zash: Multiple matches:
Rayo https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0327.html
Rayo Fax https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0342.html
Rayo CPA https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0341.html
Rayo Clustering https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0349.html
[19:08:15] <Zash> Uh, maybe anything in those have anything usable?
[19:09:12] <jonasw> I’m not sure if I was understood
[19:09:37] <moparisthebest> hmm possibly
[19:10:12] <moparisthebest> jmp.chat neatly bypasses all this by 'if you want voice, connect to this SIP account:'
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[19:11:45] <Zash> Neatly solve this problem by putting your phone next to your server and writing a component that connects over USB or somesuch :)
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[19:12:26] <moparisthebest> anyway one step at a time, SMS is much simpler
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[20:05:38] <moparisthebest> if I'm sending a message to a JID but need to encode 1 seperate piece of info, what's the best way to do that?
[20:05:48] <jonasw> <foo/>?
[20:05:57] <moparisthebest> a new element inside <message> or inside <body> or a new attribute on something?
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[20:06:02] <jonasw> NOT INSIDE BODY
[20:06:06] <jonasw> ahem
[20:06:11] <jonasw> never ever mix elements and text
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[20:06:16] <moparisthebest> yea but where and what should I do about namespaces?
[20:06:18] <jonasw> (unless you’re doing XHTML or something)
[20:06:25] <jonasw> "choose" a namespace
[20:06:37] <jonasw> don’t add attributes to any existing elements, make your own element and put it an <message/>
[20:06:43] <moparisthebest> but inside message is fine?
[20:06:45] <jonasw> think about what happens if your peer doesn’t understand it
[20:06:46] <moparisthebest> great thanks
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[20:13:29] <moparisthebest> what's the precedent for naming these things with multiple words, for example, <echo-from xmlns="urn:xmpp:echo-self">+15555555555</echo-from> ?
[20:14:00] <Zash> Metadata in attributes and content in text nodes :)
[20:14:21] <Zash> Most things are just one word afik
[20:14:41] <moparisthebest> ah so I could go
[20:15:05] <moparisthebest> <echo xmlns="urn:xmpp:echo-self" from="+15555555555" />
[20:15:18] <moparisthebest> looks cleaner anyhow probably
[20:15:30] <Zash> and urn:xmpp is technically not something anyone can just use without going through the XSF
[20:15:47] <moparisthebest> yea I'll make something else for testing
[20:15:54] <jonasw> Zash, sure you can, it just breaks things.
[20:16:05] <jonasw> (or may break due to conflict etc.)
[20:16:51] <Zash> Do we have any recommendations for these things, or do they exist anywhere?
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[20:17:13] <moparisthebest> yea that's what I was asking about
[20:17:22] <moparisthebest> doesn't matter at this point but would be nice to see
[20:17:55] <Zash> Stuff like {urn:example:foo}foo usually annoy me slightly
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[20:18:20] <Zash> *ahem* {http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub}pubsub/action *hrr*
[20:19:06] <jonasw> moparisthebest, I’m not entirely sure what you need that element for, but I suggest that you orient your wire-format on what XEP-0280 (Message Carbons) does
[20:19:23] <jonasw> at least for the communication between the component and the user component implementation
[20:19:34] <jonasw> (not for component<->normal resources)
[20:19:37] <moparisthebest> I think this might be the only thing the server component needs
[20:20:11] <moparisthebest> basically that would mean 'send me this message from that JID'
[20:20:36] <moparisthebest> the component ignores everything else, carbons handles that
[20:21:10] <jonasw> so the user component implementation on the phone client would send <message to=component><body>...</body><echo xmlns="..." ...>...</echo></message>?
[20:21:22] <moparisthebest> yes
[20:21:28] <jonasw> please wrap the message once
[20:21:57] <moparisthebest> I was going to include the no-copy and no-carbons stuff
[20:22:03] <jonasw> no
[20:22:05] <moparisthebest> why wrap it so I wouldn't have to do that?
[20:22:14] <jonasw> because it makes things explicit
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[20:23:29] <jonasw> something like <message><echo send-from="..."><forwarded><message ...>...</message></forwarded></echo></message>
[20:23:37] <jonasw> re-uses XEP-0297 even though the naming is a bit off
[20:23:52] <jonasw> has the advantage that this won’t be picked up by MAM or carbons
[20:24:19] <jonasw> (because of type="normal" on the outer and no <body/>)
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[20:37:32] <moparisthebest> jonasw, that seems harder
[20:38:00] <moparisthebest> right now the entire logic of the component is this:
[20:38:04] <moparisthebest> if msg.find('{urn:moparisthebest:echo-self}echo') is not None:
to = msg['to']
msg['to'] = msg['from']
msg['from'] = to
msg.send()
[20:38:12] <moparisthebest> done
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[20:38:28] <jonasw> moparisthebest, given that <no-store/> and <no-copy/> are from XEP-0334 which is in limbo since Council rejected its advancement, it seems like the more future-proof approach
[20:38:30] <moparisthebest> ignores everything without <echo>, if it has echo, swaps to/from and sends it back?
[20:38:47] <jonasw> that’s not what you want though
[20:39:07] <jonasw> what you’re doing requires all involved clients to know the echo protocol
[20:39:11] <jonasw> I’d avoid that
[20:39:38] <moparisthebest> no it's working exactly right without any clients knowing it
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[20:39:45] <moparisthebest> except the one sending it that is
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[20:40:03] <moparisthebest> (currently gajim xml console)
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[20:40:09] <jonasw> how would I reply to a message from somenumber@thatcomponent.domain?
[20:40:30] <dwd> moparisthebest, You're not an SDO - don't use "urn:...". Just use an http scheme URI to your domain. Or an xmpp scheme one, like your jid.
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[20:40:49] <jonasw> what is an SDO?
[20:41:03] <dwd> moparisthebest, For example, I could use xmlns="xmpp:dwd@dave.cridland.net/some-proto"
[20:41:16] <dwd> jonasw, In this context, a Standards Development Organisation
[20:41:21] <jonasw> ah
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[20:42:00] <moparisthebest> before today I've happily lived completely ignoring xmlns
[20:42:11] <moparisthebest> oh how I yearn for 10 minutes ago
[20:42:15] <dwd> jonasw, You're an XSF Editor, right? I noticed some of "my" XEPs are using old contact info - what's the best way to update that?
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[20:42:57] <dwd> moparisthebest, They're strings. Mostly without meaning, except the ones that do have meaning. But we're supposed to know how to use them properly.
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[20:43:40] <jonasw> dwd, which ones exactly?
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[20:44:04] <jonasw> or rather: have you checked whether your info in xep.ent is up-to-date? if it isn’t, that’d be a great way to start.
[20:44:13] <moparisthebest> also, how dare dwd assume I'm not a Standards Development Organization :)
[20:44:16] <dwd> jonasw, I happened to notice XEP-0286, but there might be others.
[20:44:41] <dwd> moparisthebest, Actually the best definition I have for an SDO is whether they can register a urn prefix.
[20:44:53] <jonasw> dwd, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/xep.ent#L924 is this up-to-date?
[20:44:53] <moparisthebest> :'(
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[20:45:29] <dwd> jonasw, Yes.
[20:45:58] <jonasw> dwd, okay, will update the XEPs not using that entity definition.
[20:46:07] <dwd> jonasw, Thanks. Much appreciated.
[20:46:15] <jonasw> (there are two)
[20:46:36] <jonasw> (XEP-0376 is the other one)
[20:46:45] <jonasw> moparisthebest, I was thinking something like this:
<!-- User component to Component -->
<message to="component.domain" from="account@domain/user-component-client">
<echo xmlns="foo">
<forwarded>
<message from="phonenumber@component.domain" to="account@domain" id="xyz">
<body>Hi there!</body>
</message>
</forwarded>
</echo>
</message>

<!-- Component to account -->
<message from="phonenumber@component.domain" to="account@domain" id="xyz">
<body>Hi there!</body>
</message>

<!-- Some client from the account replies -->
<message from="account@domain/resource" to="phonenumber@component.domain" id="abc">
<body>Hi yourself!</body>
</message>

<!-- Component to User component -->
<message from="component.domain" to="account@domain/user-component-client">
<echo xmlns="foo">
<forwarded>
<message from="account@domain/resource" to="phonenumber@component.domain" id="abc">
<body>Hi yourself!</body>
</message>
</forwarded>
</echo>
</message>
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[20:47:01] <jonasw> this has the advantage that the protocol between user component and the server-side component is explicit
[20:47:12] <jonasw> the interaction between the component and other clients is like with any other domain
[20:47:14] <jonasw> which is nice
[20:47:22] <jonasw> wrapping the actual payload saves it from being archived etc.
[20:47:42] <moparisthebest> then the component has a state
[20:47:50] <jonasw> moparisthebest, why would it need state for that?
[20:47:54] <moparisthebest> and there is, registering stuff involved
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[20:48:00] <moparisthebest> <!-- Component to User component -->
[20:48:08] <jonasw> right, it needs to know that anyways?
[20:48:15] <moparisthebest> I don't think so
[20:48:19] <jonasw> how would it not need that?
[20:48:29] <jonasw> it does have to know where to deliver messages sent by other clients to the component?
[20:48:31] <moparisthebest> the user's server handles it for them, with carbons
[20:48:43] <moparisthebest> and/or mam etc
[20:48:51] <jonasw> ugh, you’ll simply ignore them and rely on carbons? :/
[20:48:56] <jonasw> I see
[20:48:57] <moparisthebest> exactly :)
[20:48:59] <jonasw> I don’t like that approach :)
[20:49:09] <jonasw> it relies on carbon rules which are super-foggy
[20:49:27] <moparisthebest> it has the advantage of the component being potentially the simplest xmpp component of all time
[20:49:30] <jonasw> I can also see the use-case of <iq/> and other stanza types for user components.
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[20:49:48] <jonasw> but it’s not really re-usable
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[20:49:54] <moparisthebest> true it only works for carbon'd things
[20:50:53] <moparisthebest> still that seems like an additional xep for non-message things that don't get carboned, might as well keep this super simple
[20:51:04] <jonasw> but consistency.
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[21:11:58] <moparisthebest> does message have to have a body ?
[21:12:14] <jonasw> no
[21:12:20] <jonasw> carbons for example do not have bodies
[21:12:21] <moparisthebest> I don't know if it's sleekxmpp or prosody, but one is refusing to deliver it
[21:12:33] <jonasw> care to show some XML traces?
[21:12:39] <moparisthebest> no errors, just doesn't go through until I add a body
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[21:12:57] <jonasw> I suspect that might not be the only difference. there are a lot of use-cases for non-body messages.
[21:13:04] <jonasw> (chat state notifications for example)
[21:13:21] <moparisthebest> no I'm pasting into the gajim xml console and that's the only difference :)
[21:13:53] <jonasw> how are you trying to receive the message?
[21:14:14] <moparisthebest> it's sleekxmpp
[21:14:29] <moparisthebest> if I turn on COMM level logging it logs it, but doesn't send it to my app
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[21:18:02] <moparisthebest> well that's a bug I'm not dealing with now
[21:18:09] <moparisthebest> will mess with <forwarded> later meh
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