Wednesday, November 01, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[07:39:10] <jonasw> dwd, FYI, your contact info should be fixed
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[08:15:12] <dwd> jonasw, Thanks!
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[16:35:35] <Holger> Kev: The <unread/> thing in bind2 won't work for MUC right? The idea is to wait for MIX?
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[16:36:00] <Holger> Or won't it work with MIX MAM either?
[16:36:32] <Kev> Open question how best to sort out that interaction.
[16:36:42] <Kev> But it's certainly my intention to make it work.
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[16:54:03] <Holger> I see.
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[16:59:01] <Martin> Let me guess…although the UK's clocks have changed back to GMT, there's something different in the US/Europe and I'm an hour early for the Board meeting?
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[17:01:29] <Guus> oh, that's entirely possible
[17:01:36] <Guus> I was waiting for the board meeting to happen as well
[17:01:37] <jonasw> in US they switch on the 5th
[17:01:46] <Martin> D'oh
[17:01:49] <Guus> but then again ... Arc is the only one that's still in DST I think?
[17:01:54] <jonasw> and people laugh when I say everything shall be scheduled in UTC!!k
[17:02:12] <Guus> let us check our handy calendar
[17:02:24] <Guus> ah, the board meeting was an hour ago :)
[17:03:19] <jonasw> lovely
[17:03:21] <Martin> Doesn't look like much happened an hour ago, though, ironically, that's a much better time for me!
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[17:04:11] <Guus> Yeah, so basically, only Arc is late, and the rest of the board neglected to account for the DST change? :D
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[17:05:10] <peter> timezones!!
[17:06:52] <Guus> a recurring theme.
[17:07:57] <moparisthebest> recurring exactly 2 times a year :)
[17:08:04] <Guus> 4
[17:08:25] <Guus> EU-to-DST, US-to-DST, EU-from-DST, US-from-DST
[17:08:33] <Zash> Did anyone ever successfully schedule a meeting across timezones during DST switchover?
[17:08:53] <Guus> people in Iceland?
[17:09:15] <Guus> (which is always at UTC, doesn't do DST afaik)
[17:10:10] <moparisthebest> timezones/DST etc is awful now, imagine when people live on mars and converting time for that :/
[17:10:11] <SamWhited> I need to move to Iceland.
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[17:11:43] <moparisthebest> there's a private info 3-people-use-the-same-server leak :)
[17:12:46] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: awesome idea to rename compliance suite to 2018! I'd comment on list but my infrastructure had a power failure and I can't yet send mail.
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[17:13:14] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: Thanks, I was planning on trying to push new ones through really quick but I just realized that we're so close anyways I might as well just rename the current ones since the recommendations aren't likely to change.
[17:13:37] <jonasw> SamWhited, +1
[17:13:44] <SamWhited> Also, every time people ask me "why don't you run your own email?" I'm going to start quoting Ge0rG :)
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[17:15:56] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: hey, I have a fallback server, but it's too cumbersome to set it up on my mobile. And the power failure happened while I was on holiday 300km away. It also ruined most of the fridge content, so the MTA doesn't have priority
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[17:16:25] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: You are giving me further material to quote when people ask
[17:16:44] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: okay, I shut up now.
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[17:17:16] <SamWhited> heh, but yah, this is why I don't host my own email.
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[17:17:55] <moparisthebest> like 'cloud' doesn't go down too?
[17:18:07] <Ge0rG> I'm also a paranoid freak running it on real physical hardware in a place with limited access to third parties.
[17:18:14] <moparisthebest> I recall not too long ago half the web being broken because an amazon engineer fat fingered a command, while my services worked fine :)
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[17:18:37] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: "cloud" is just other people's computers...
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[17:18:44] <moparisthebest> exactly
[17:19:24] <SamWhited> No one ever said it never went down, but most cloud providers have SLAs that have to be met. I never had gmail go down in many years of using them, and so far haven't had FastMail go down (though I'm told they have slightly fewer 9's of uptime)
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[17:20:39] <moparisthebest> Ge0rG has an SLA too, he gets it back up as soon as he wants to :)
[17:21:34] <Link Mauve> In some ten years I’ve hosted my emails, I haven’t had a single time I couldn’t use it.
[17:21:45] <Zash> Email at least retries, so there's not that much of an hurry
[17:21:50] <Link Mauve> Yeah.
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[17:22:25] <Link Mauve> But if I was on another network while that happened and I absolutely needed to send an email right now, I could just ssh into my secondary and send it from there.
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[17:28:35] <Ge0rG> I could send it as well, in theory. I just prefer to do more useful things right now than working around the failure.
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[17:40:26] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: typical cloud SLAs are worthless. They guarantee something like 99.5% availability per month, but the only thing you get if they stay down longer is a fraction of your service fee. That doesn't work for businesses and they don't go down for so long often anyway
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[17:41:03] <SamWhited> They still try to hit them, and I would be willing to bet money FastMail goes down less than what would happen if I hosted myself
[17:41:57] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: probably so, because most redundancy and recovery mechanisms profit from scale
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[17:48:30] <dwd> I don't have the original messages for the Last Calls for 286, 313, 387, or 352 in my mailbox. I don't (knowingly) filter or delete mail. I'll investigate futher, but I wonder if that might explain the paucity of comments?
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[17:49:41] <Link Mauve> Maybe the DKIM?
[17:49:54] <Link Mauve> I don’t validate that.
[17:50:08] <moparisthebest> hmm yes jonasw 's DKIM failed
[17:50:18] <moparisthebest> dkim=fail reason="key not found in DNS" (0-bit key) header.d=wielicki.name header.i=@wielicki.name header.b=auTm/D1f
[17:50:23] <SamWhited> Not that you mention it, I think I'm missing some of the originals too (assuming the extension emails were all sent in response to the originals, it only threaded properly on some of them)
[17:51:04] <SamWhited> and by "some of them" I mean "MAM"
[17:51:25] <moparisthebest> including failing DKIM sigs will cause it to get spammed most places
[17:51:34] <moparisthebest> rightly
[17:52:01] <dwd> Right... So quite possibly people have spam-trapped them. Might be worth resending (from XSF Editor address, perhaps)?
[17:52:09] <Ge0rG> And this is why I run my own email infrastructure
[17:52:15] <SamWhited> I never could figure out how to send from the xsf editor address; is that possible?
[17:52:25] <SamWhited> This is why I don't run my own email infrastructure…
[17:52:28] <SamWhited> (again)
[17:52:40] <dwd> SamWhited, I run my own email infrastructure, I just don't use it.
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[18:18:47] <Zash> This is why I don't do DKIM
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[18:21:24] <bjc> google doesn't flag your mail as spam?
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[18:21:47] <bjc> they were the only reason i set it up, but when you house half of the world's email...
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[18:26:55] <Zash> I don't remember DKIM becoming mandatory
[18:27:20] <Zash> Surely they'll flag my email as spam regardless
[18:27:27] <Ge0rG> Me neither. I have SPF and TLS and Google is happy
[18:28:05] <moparisthebest> oh also if you don't have DKIM it's more likely to be spam
[18:28:14] <moparisthebest> DKIM is one of those de-facto mandatory things email has
[18:29:14] <moparisthebest> I think it's mandatory to have matching RDNS, then DKIM+SPF+DMARC if you want good delivery
[18:29:30] <Link Mauve> Never set that up, never got my email flagged as spam AFAIK.
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[18:29:39] <Link Mauve> Neither DMARC.
[18:29:55] <moparisthebest> DMARC might not be, it's just a way to get feedback
[18:29:55] <Zash> I don't have matching RDNS.
[18:30:06] <Zash> Or, what does that even mean?
[18:30:13] <moparisthebest> I don't expect you can send any mail at all without matching reverse DNS
[18:30:25] <moparisthebest> most mail servers reject your connection right away
[18:31:50] <Zash> There's RDNS, but it points to a series of CNAMEs that point back to my IP, and I'm having no problems.
[18:32:42] <moparisthebest> not really sure but I'd think as long as it points back to your IP it'd be fine
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[20:14:44] *** daniel shows as "online"
[20:18:29] *** peter shows as "online"
[20:18:31] *** peter has left the room
[20:20:04] *** daniel has left the room
[20:20:39] *** daniel shows as "online"
[20:20:58] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:21:30] *** Guus has left the room
[20:23:40] *** thomas_ shows as "online"
[20:24:17] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:24:59] *** arc has left the room
[20:25:12] *** daniel has left the room
[20:25:18] *** daniel shows as "online"
[20:25:59] *** arc has joined the room
[20:27:58] *** lumi shows as "online"
[20:29:30] *** goffi has left the room
[20:33:36] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:34:20] *** daniel has left the room
[20:34:27] *** daniel shows as "online"
[20:37:19] *** goffi has joined the room
[20:37:19] *** arc has left the room
[20:39:14] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:39:58] *** peter shows as "online"
[20:40:20] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:40:33] *** arc has joined the room
[20:43:48] *** Guus has left the room
[20:45:22] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:45:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:53:27] *** arc has left the room
[20:53:27] *** arc has joined the room
[20:55:34] *** arc has left the room
[20:55:36] *** arc has joined the room
[20:57:38] *** zinid has left the room
[20:59:57] *** arc has left the room
[20:59:58] *** arc has joined the room
[21:03:35] *** bjc shows as "online"
[21:03:46] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:04:02] *** bjc shows as "online"
[21:04:02] *** arc has left the room
[21:04:20] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:04:49] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:07:31] *** Valerian has left the room
[21:07:34] *** Valerian has joined the room
[21:08:12] *** Valerian has left the room
[21:10:07] *** arc has joined the room
[21:11:00] *** daniel has left the room
[21:11:04] *** daniel shows as "online"
[21:14:41] *** ralphm has left the room
[21:17:43] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:17:46] *** Valerian has joined the room
[21:24:28] *** ThurahT has left the room
[21:25:23] *** bjc has left the room
[21:26:12] *** zinid has left the room
[21:26:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "online"
[21:26:13] *** zinid has joined the room
[21:26:22] *** Steve Kille shows as "online"
[21:26:52] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:28:10] *** peter shows as "online"
[21:28:20] *** Steve Kille shows as "online"
[21:28:25] *** Steve Kille shows as "online"
[21:29:59] *** Steve Kille shows as "online"
[21:29:59] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[21:30:06] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:30:07] *** Steve Kille shows as "online"
[21:32:44] *** jubalh has left the room
[21:34:10] *** ThurahT has joined the room
[21:35:45] *** Guus has left the room
[21:36:50] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:37:18] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:40:43] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:40:48] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:44:13] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[21:49:12] *** peter has left the room
[21:49:14] *** Guus has left the room
[21:53:51] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[21:56:11] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:56:11] *** Guus has left the room
[21:57:59] *** jcbrand has joined the room
[21:59:07] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:59:08] *** Guus has left the room
[22:14:18] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:14:19] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[22:18:58] *** Kev shows as "online"
[22:21:01] *** daniel has left the room
[22:23:19] *** blabla has joined the room
[22:23:44] *** blabla has left the room
[22:24:27] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:25:02] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:26:47] *** jcbrand has left the room
[22:27:27] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:27:27] *** Guus has left the room
[22:29:45] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:29:50] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:35:41] *** arc has left the room
[22:35:42] *** arc has joined the room
[22:37:27] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:38:32] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:41:05] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:41:56] *** tux has left the room
[22:44:47] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:45:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:45:23] *** lskdjf has left the room
[22:45:25] *** arc has left the room
[22:45:26] *** arc has joined the room
[22:45:46] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:50:44] *** goffi has left the room
[22:59:58] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[23:02:33] *** arc has left the room
[23:02:34] *** arc has joined the room
[23:04:15] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[23:04:19] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[23:04:51] *** Guus has left the room
[23:07:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:07:56] *** Valerian has left the room
[23:08:15] *** Guus has left the room
[23:08:37] *** arc has left the room
[23:08:37] *** arc has joined the room
[23:11:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:12:46] *** Guus has left the room
[23:14:15] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:14:20] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:14:28] *** lovetox has left the room
[23:14:30] *** arc has left the room
[23:14:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:15:26] *** jubalh has joined the room
[23:15:26] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:15:47] *** Valerian has joined the room
[23:15:48] *** arc has joined the room
[23:17:08] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[23:17:09] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[23:17:38] *** Valerian has left the room
[23:17:43] *** Valerian has joined the room
[23:18:26] *** Valerian has left the room
[23:19:41] *** arc has left the room
[23:19:42] *** arc has joined the room
[23:22:57] *** Valerian has joined the room
[23:26:33] *** thomas_ has left the room
[23:27:53] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[23:27:55] *** lumi shows as "online"
[23:28:18] *** tux has left the room
[23:28:21] *** tux has joined the room
[23:29:24] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:29:26] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:29:34] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:31:33] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:32:03] *** jubalh has left the room
[23:34:46] *** arc has left the room
[23:34:48] *** arc has joined the room
[23:40:33] *** efrit has joined the room
[23:40:44] *** ralphm has left the room
[23:41:33] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:44:31] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:48:43] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[23:48:45] *** lumi shows as "online"
[23:57:05] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[23:57:13] *** sonny has joined the room
[23:58:00] *** bjc has joined the room