XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2017-11-16


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  221. Ge0rG Can't we just cease Board and Council meeting in the few weeks between DST changes here and over the pond?
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  224. jonasw Ge0rG, hasn’t DST changed over already and the actual issue is that the meeting is now effectively an hour earlier everywhere?
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  226. Ge0rG jonasw: if we anchor the meeting time in local time and cease meetings when the DST status is incosnstent between countries, this is probably the least annoyance for everyone except for people who have all their other meetings anchored on UTC
  227. jonasw timezones suck
  228. jonasw so what you’re saying is not "cease meetings between DST changes" but "anchor meetings on local time instead of UTC".
  229. jonasw (+ the former)
  230. jonasw (because ceasing the meetings wouldn’t have helped with board which was anchored in UTC)
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  234. Ge0rG jonasw: right, exactly that
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  290. pep. jonasw, https://www.mail-archive.com/standards@xmpp.org/msg18154.html, I'm still reading through the threads. "Examples of markup which falls back to plaintext gracefully", and you include xhtml in the counter examples. How is that a counter example
  291. jonasw pep., because <b>this</b> isn’t really readable
  292. jonasw neither is a serialized version of a table, if you assume that tags are stripped
  293. jonasw also links etc.
  294. Zash Bunneh: do ("because <b>this</b> isn’t really readable"):gsub("%b<>","")
  295. Bunneh Zash: because this isn’t really readable
  296. pep. what Zash said
  297. jonasw Zash, great! now do this with a table and an href and see how useful it is :)
  298. Zash jonasw: I think I personally can live with tables getting messed up in IM
  299. pep. jonasw, I'm not sure I get the issue, you can also do that with xhtml, same as markdown
  300. jonasw Zash, note that I specifically did not say XHTML-IM, but XHTML.
  301. pep. you'll have to parse both either way
  302. jonasw pep., so <a href="something">here’s the site</a> I’ve been telling you about
  303. jonasw strip the tag away, it’s useless
  304. pep. no you don't _just_ strip the tag away
  305. jonasw ah, then it’s not a simple fallback to plaintext anymore
  306. pep. of course
  307. jonasw and that’s what I’m saying
  308. jonasw what I was referring to there is that some markups are immediately readable as plaintext without additional processing
  309. pep. ok, how does markdown falls back gracefully then?
  310. jonasw because *this* is pretty much readable
  311. pep. *and *this* is as* well?
  312. jonasw that’s not useful markdown in the first place
  313. jonasw so kind of not a valid argument here
  314. jonasw (it is equivalent to "<p><em>and </em>this* is as* well?</p>" according to pandoc)
  315. jonasw but that’s beside the point, kind of. Styling has much stricter rules than anymark and falls back to plaintext gracefully in all cases I think.
  316. pep. granted this is not a valid example. I can certainly find some, and I'm sure people have already.
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  319. jonasw I’ll make one for you: "*foo\*bar*"
  320. jonasw that’s where things get naughty, and that’s why those cases have been forbidden in Styling
  321. pep. Now thinking about why this question in the first place, why do we need to have this property for the markup?
  322. Zash Let me tell you about mod<em>foo</em>bar
  323. jonasw pep., I never said we do need this property.
  324. jonasw I said that there are sources (read: entities) which emit this type of markup and there always will be and we’ll have to deal with it somehow.
  325. pep. sources such as?
  326. jonasw humans, for example
  327. jonasw *I* certainly *do* write such content.
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  329. Zash What if /I/ write it differently?
  330. pep. I do as well, for stuff that my client doesn't support yet, for the rest I use xhtml-im
  331. jonasw another case would be: > the sources Florian quoted when proposing Body Markup Hints as I mentioned in my email (I’m just quoting here to add more examples of me doing that markup)
  332. jonasw pep., great! now let’s standardize what everyone does so that clients can encourage that behaviour by applying actual styling, thus slowly teaching everybody to use exactly that formatting
  333. jonasw bonus points if we let us inspire by widespread IM systems to make things more familiar
  334. pep. Well we can use actual markup, we don't have to include random stuff in the plaintext
  335. pep. Well we can use actual markup, we don't have to include stuff in the plaintext
  336. jonasw sure
  337. jonasw but I found with Message Markup that it’s not trivial
  338. jonasw for example, when I do a list: * foo * bar * baz
  339. Zash Won't any actual XML markup end up in someones DOM with minimal fiddlery? Won't anything resembling Markdown go through a library that does HTML passtrough?
  340. pep. I wouldn't do a list like that if my client supported it
  341. jonasw now when marking this up with Message Markup, I would either have to remove the '* ' from the body so that the message renders nicely in MM-capable clients, or I keep the '* ' so that plaintext-only clients’ users can still understand what I’m doing
  342. jonasw Zash, I don’t think you can make MM end up in any dom with minimal fiddlery
  343. jonasw pep., wait for my point :-)
  344. jonasw or rather, read my point now
  345. jonasw if I decide to keep the '* ', the message looks ugly in MM-capable clients, which’d essentially render each point as '• * foo'
  346. Zash jonasw: Is that a challenge?
  347. jonasw if I drop the '* ', it is unreadable to plaintext clients which would have been perfectly fine with seeing '* foo'
  348. pep. yeah, that's why I preferred xhtml-im in the first place
  349. pep. that's just ugly
  350. jonasw pep., XHTML-IM does exactly that, right
  351. jonasw so we’re back to putting markup-things in the <body/>.
  352. Zash XHTML-IM has two bodies
  353. jonasw and also have a copy of the text in <body xhtml/>, which is a really bad thing
  354. pep. what no xhtml doesn't do that
  355. pep. or let me reread
  356. jonasw doesn’t it?
  357. jonasw I thought there were rules on how to generate the plaintext
  358. pep. Ah, ok maybe
  359. Zash jonasw: multipart/alternative has worked "fine" in email since forever? :)
  360. jonasw indeed, theer aren’t I think
  361. jonasw Zash, it didn’t
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  364. Zash Like that email I got that said "click here" ... without a link or anything
  365. jonasw pep., so, would you rather have your whatever-XHTML-IM-replacement-there-will-be client put a plaintext body which is unreadable to humans (e.g. my broken list, without '* ') into the message or keep things like '* ' to make it more interpretable?
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  370. jonasw i.e., would you want your non-XHTML-IM-replacement-capable peer see (a): * foo * bar * baz or rather (b): foo bar baz ?
  371. pep. I'm not sure, yet. I do put pseudo-markup in plaintext fairly often as well, emails (which are usually way more formatted than any of my messages on IM), xmpp also, for stuff like `inline code` etc.
  372. jonasw exactly
  373. pep. One thing I know for sure is that I wouldn't want this '* ' crap in the formatted version
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  375. jonasw exactly
  376. pep. I'll have to think about that a bit more
  377. jonasw so why not (a) standardise that pseudo markup so that everybody is on the same page and (b) also make a XEP (which I want Message Markup to be) which specifies how to put proper markup into messages *and* which specifies how a plaintext fallback has to look like?
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  379. jonasw and also make the plaintext fallback of Message Markup look exactly like the equivalent Styling for instant interop
  380. jonasw that’s kind of my plan
  381. Zash I'm not usually sending tables and lists in my chats
  382. pep. neither am I
  383. pep. In my emails maybe, lists definitely
  384. jonasw lists I do quite a bit (see above, there were a few :))
  385. jonasw but the same holds for quotations, really
  386. jonasw you really need the "> " (or other marker) in the plaintext version, but it looks ugly as heck in the rendered markup
  387. Zash I'm actually allergic to people who quote messages that are still in view
  388. jonasw I like to quote XEPs/RFCs :)
  389. pep. I usually try not to do that as well
  390. Zash Oh how very nessesary to include the message that is *right above yours*
  391. Zash Fine if it was hours ago and it scrolled out of view
  392. pep. Also "> " quotations are a fairly recent thing here I think, since conversations started it
  393. pep. I usually use "re <whatyouweretalkingabout>"
  394. pep. Or similar
  395. jonasw pep., I actually love that conversations adopted that
  396. pep. I don't really
  397. Kev > predates Conversations just ever so slightly. See email.
  398. pep. that's even more clutter
  399. Zash The Skype people that got me into XMPP dev did that all the time, quoting the above message. And it looked horrible because the Linux client wasn't aware of the markup used.
  400. pep. Kev, yeah but it does fit better in email, I don't really like that in IM
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  403. Kev I do it in IM, and I've never used a client that showed it as markup. It's human-readable, and obvious what you mean if you're amongst people who're email-literate.
  404. Holger jonasw: The problem isn't really plain-text clients but clients that don't support your markup, no?
  405. jonasw Holger, that’s what I mean, yes
  406. jonasw do you find the wording confusing?
  407. pep. I get that, still it doesn't feel right to me in IM, you can usually follow a discussion easily in a groupchat, even when there are two discussions going on at the same time. What I would do is just hl the person to whom I'm talking to, and as I said earlier if I need to specify I'll use "re .." or similar
  408. pep. Kev ^
  409. jonasw pep., just today I wanted to quote a piece of RFC 6120 to somebody.
  410. jonasw it’s not (only) about quoting messages from the same discussion.
  411. Zash jonasw> it’s not (only) about quoting messages from the same discussion. <<< this is annoying tho
  412. jonasw also, pep., just because it isn’t *your* use case, does that mean that nobody should be able to do that?
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  414. pep. People do use it a lot for this
  415. jonasw Zash, I agree.
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  418. jonasw Zash, that’s kinda beside the point of the markup discussion, isn’t it?
  419. Holger jonasw: Yes I wasn't sure whether your concern was terminal clients specifically. While Gajim will have the same problem as long as it doesn't support your XEP and Poezio could support your markup just find by displaying "item" as "* item" or whatever.
  420. jonasw Holger, no, I didn’t mean to refer to terminal clients, at all.
  421. Holger But I'm probably just stating the obvious.
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  423. Holger Ok :-)
  424. jonasw (the fact that poezio has some XHTML-IM support should make that clear, too. It even can into boldface and colors. And italic if you’re on python 3.7 or so)
  425. Holger Yup.
  426. Zash jonasw: An example of bad markup? IIRC quotes weren't actually rendered like that ... unless you used the Linux client (the bare existence of was in itself a crime against humanity)
  427. pep. At work we use Mattermost, which has threads (half-arsed threads, but still), so quotation is indeed useful for things that you are actually quoting. Not just replying to someone
  428. pep. At work we use Mattermost, which has threads (half-arsed threads, but still), so quotation is indeed useful for things that you are actually quoting. Not replying to someone
  429. pep. Anyway, food is waiting
  430. jonasw gl
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  508. jonasw edhelas, is that you in #rockbox? :)
  509. edhelas damn, the XSF minions are stalking me everywhere
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  511. jonasw I’m sorry ;-)
  512. Guus drafts a new wiki page on restraining orders...
  513. jonasw Guus, you’re one to talk, Mr. Webcam Big Brother
  514. Guus Which potentially makes me an expert on the matter, right? :)
  515. jonasw indeed
  516. jonasw I really need a new player, the lack of music during my commutes is driving (pun not intended) me crazy.
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  520. Zash Hmmm, colaborative groupchat music streaming thingymabob?
  521. Guus or: sing yourself?
  522. Ge0rG has left
  523. goffi Zash: jonasw: https://www.goffi.org/post/2012/02/02/Collective-radio-(with-video)
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  525. goffi (not sure if it's still working though, I haven't used it for a while)
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  528. Zash goffi: fancy, I think I've seen that mentioned before
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  531. Zash je ne parle pas into not le francé not I'm afraid
  532. Zash goffi: I'm more looking for something lika moderated mpd instance
  533. Zash And I'd really like get the auto-rating thing from QuodLibet into mpd
  534. Zash Or more of the mpd interface in ql
  535. Zash or both
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  541. goffi Zash: video is in French indeed, but it's not really need to understand the speach to see the feature
  542. Zash goffi: hard to know without understanding it :)
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  546. moparisthebest jonasw, I use Dsub on an android phone, libresonic on the server (though now I heard of a new fork called airsonic but haven't looked into it...)
  547. jonasw moparisthebest, "android phone" no.
  548. Alex has joined
  549. jonasw so many reasons, among which: bad audio quality, bad input device, low battery life
  550. Ge0rG has left
  551. moparisthebest oh no I smell an audiophile, run!!!
  552. edhelas eheh :D
  553. edhelas MPD + Cantata <3
  554. jonasw edhelas, lovely, but that doesn’t work on-the-go unfortunately :)
  555. Zash jonasw: invent time travel, go back to 2001 and steal one of those usb mp3 player-thumbdrives
  556. edhelas jonasw using Rockbox on my iPod Photo, Cantata do the sync easily from the MPD DB
  557. mathieui Zash, the ones supporting up to mp3 128k?
  558. jonasw Zash, I’m in fact hunting for vintage-ish devices to put rockbox on.
  559. jonasw Zash, my issue is rather that my vintage device from 2004 broke and it’s hard to find an affordable replacement which I’ll be able to maintain for another 10 years.
  560. jonasw going for the same model again (which has 2.5" IDE storage) seems like a bad idea :)
  561. Zash mathieui: the ones that measured in megabytes and you'd better compress it down to that if you want more than one song on it
  562. edhelas jonasw you can easily change some HDD into Flash ones with cheap adapters
  563. jonasw edhelas, tried that
  564. jonasw didn’t work for my h320
  565. edhelas changed my IDE connector to CF, then CF to SD then SD to Micro SD now I have 32Gb flash that can be expanded :p
  566. Zash are therte raspberry pi-like devices with 3.5mm connectors?
  567. Zash are there still raspberry pi-like devices with 3.5mm connectors?
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  570. jonasw Zash, I guess so ...
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  572. Zash something like that, with like a battery pack taped to it? :)
  573. jonasw Zash, that doesn’t sound fragile at all :)
  574. jonasw the last fragile player I had lasted three weeks or so
  575. Zash I'm using some early rev raspberry ip with mpd on it
  576. Zash why did apple stop making the good screenless ... clip ipods?
  577. jonasw I like a good screen.
  578. moparisthebest honestly I'd buy a used android phone for $20 or something, not sure what else you would want
  579. Zash jonasw: you listen with your eyes?
  580. moparisthebest good screen, wifi, unlimited storage, 3.5 plug
  581. Zash shuffle!
  582. jonasw no, but it’s good for input feedback :)
  583. jonasw moparisthebest, I want a proper keyboard, for starters.
  584. jonasw touchscreens are annoying to use when on-the-go
  585. edhelas wifi ?! but why
  586. Zash I'd be fine with a 'next' button and nothing else
  587. edhelas and then you complain that you have to recharge it each 24h :D
  588. edhelas just put a big storage, few buttons, simple screen and a big battery
  589. moparisthebest jonasw, motorola droid 1 ?
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  592. jjrh Orange pi is another sbc
  593. jjrh They have a orange pi zero which is really small and has WiFi
  594. jonasw moparisthebest, can one control music playback with those hardware keys? ;-)
  595. jonasw also, way too many and too tiny
  596. jjrh has left
  597. moparisthebest probably?
  598. moparisthebest oh wait if you only want next/previous etc all of them have hardware buttons
  599. moparisthebest up/down etc
  600. Zash moparisthebest: that's me
  601. jonasw up down is for volume, isn’t it?
  602. jjrh Zash if you want a small mp3 player look on AliExpress and sites like that
  603. moparisthebest you can configure it to be for whatever
  604. jonasw moparisthebest, but I need both volume, updown, navigation through the library etc.
  605. jonasw without nasty touchness
  606. jonasw or unlocking the device, even though a separate device would solve that no matter the OS
  607. jjrh They have some nice ones that play flac
  608. Zash jonasw: n900!
  609. moparisthebest jonasw, android phones generally have 3 hardware buttons at the bottom of the screen, volume up/down, and power
  610. moparisthebest any of which you can remap
  611. jonasw moparisthebest, those aren’t hardware buttons, those are touch
  612. jonasw (usually)
  613. Zash go back in time to the earliest androids that had full hardware keyboards
  614. moparisthebest depends on device, but most devices even though it looks like screen they are actually hardware buttons you can press with screen off
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  616. jonasw moparisthebest, they are still capacitive touch based
  617. jonasw my issue is not that they wouldn’t work with the screen turned off
  618. jonasw I am used to operate my playback device without even looking at it
  619. moparisthebest why does that matter?
  620. Zash also, gloves
  621. moparisthebest you make it vibrate when you press them?
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  623. Zash winter is coming
  624. jonasw I still don’t know which key I hit
  625. jonasw or will hit, in advance
  626. jonasw it’s about haptic feedback
  627. Zash jonasw: headset? headset with next/prev buttons?
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  629. jonasw and gloves, yes
  630. moparisthebest I bet some cheap android phones still come with buttons
  631. jonasw Zash, that’d add more parameters to the search for earphones
  632. Zash or get something with so little storage that you can only fit good music on it, negating the need to switch songs
  633. jonasw moparisthebest, even *if* that is solved: battery life, proper playback software (rockbox on androids is meh), the effort to re-configure the device to act like something it clearly isn’t and audio quality remain as issues
  634. lskdjf has left
  635. moparisthebest DSub for software, battery life should be plenty if you turn off data?
  636. jonasw Zash, having lived with MDs for years, I’d agree. But I have come to like the possiblity to have one or two audiobooks with me without having to manage that
  637. Zash MDs?
  638. moparisthebest my favorite thing about Dsub is it connects to your server, but caches music, and can play offline
  639. jonasw Zash, Mini-Discs
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  641. jonasw moparisthebest, it needs a server?
  642. jonasw nope.
  643. daniel has joined
  644. Zash jonasw: Heh, get a *drumroll* mp3-cd player! or a walkman!
  645. jonasw Zash, I was seriously considering hunting for used MD players.
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  647. jonasw but then I’m accustomed to the great UI of rockbox, which I’d like to keep. Hands down the best mobile audio player I’ve seen so far.
  648. Zash I wonder if you can put an mp3 player into one of those cassette adapters...
  649. moparisthebest jonasw, that's the good part in my opinion, all my music is on the server, and I pick what it plays/caches whenever I'm connected to the internet
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  651. jonasw moparisthebest, that’s a downside for me.
  652. moparisthebest how do you put music on it? manually copy it? ew
  653. jonasw there are tools for that
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  655. jonasw it’d require setting up a server and handing the device credentials for internet access, meaning it needs a lockscreen
  656. Zash moparisthebest: what does the caching?
  657. jonasw at the point it needs a lockscreen it isn’t suitable for audio playback anymore
  658. moparisthebest Zash, Dsub the client can stream from the server and/or pre-cache them from the server and can then play anything it has offline
  659. Zash Hrr, I want that as a FUSE thing
  660. jonasw Zash, I’m working on that!
  661. Zash jonasw: take my bottlecaps!!
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  663. jonasw Zash, follow this: https://github.com/horazont/dragonstash
  664. moparisthebest the server can optionally transcode on the fly too
  665. moparisthebest if I'm on 4G on the interstate I don't want full flacs, I want tiny oggs
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  667. Tobias 3
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  697. jjrh Man I loved my minidisc player
  698. jjrh Lasted more than 24h on a rechargeable AA, could keep 4 albums compressed on a disc
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  701. jjrh Only issue is it broke constantly. I think Sony spent at least $1500 repairing it.
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  703. jjrh They would give you the receipt and it would be $500 - more than I paid for the minidisc player
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  706. dwd jjrh, My brother went for MiniDisc both times they tried to launch it.
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  708. jonasw I always disliked the proprietary nature of them.
  709. jonasw like, you can’t have a device which does MD playback and digital output at the same time
  710. dwd jjrh, He also had a DAT deck at home, too.
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  713. dwd jonasw, MiniDisc used a custom audio compression codec. Mostly, it was duplicated in MPEG 1's Audio Layer 3.
  714. jonasw dwd, depends
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  716. jonasw but that wasn’t the point, sony wouldn’t license devices with digital outputs to prevent copying
  717. jjrh At the time your options were discman, expensive mp3 players with 64-128 of memory - the flash cards were around $100
  718. Zash portable cd players?
  719. jjrh yeah discman's or whatever
  720. jjrh They had crummy battery life and skipped
  721. lskdjf has left
  722. moparisthebest not if you held them super still
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  725. Zash I had a thing that could read mp3s and not skip thanks to some caching
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  728. Zash 700 mega f'in bytes of mp3s!
  729. Zash must have been right around the time when it took 15 minutes to download one song
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  731. moparisthebest last christmas someone bought the kids a like 'vintage copy toy' of a record player, then explained it to them like an older version of CDs
  732. moparisthebest then we realized my kids don't know what a CD is either :)
  733. jonasw disturbing
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  739. Zash jonasw: not sure what I'm thinking about using go there. would the thing run on a jolla?
  740. jonasw Zash, dunno
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  742. jonasw jolla is an ARM, isn’t it?
  743. Zash I have like two mp3s on my jolla, one ringtone and one for sms singal
  744. jonasw Zash, https://github.com/golang/go/wiki/GoArm "possibly™"?
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  746. Zash jonasw: hardware wise it's probably same as any android
  747. jonasw Zash, I don’t see any reason why not then. golang compiles for ARM. it’s probably even more portable due to lack of runtime dependencies ;-)
  748. Zash just with some redhat-ish systemd based distro
  749. Zash problem two: no sshfs in its repos
  750. lskdjf has left
  751. jonasw Zash, no worries, dragonstash has it’s own SFTP client
  752. lskdjf has left
  753. jonasw don’t let yourself be fooled by the roadmap in the readme, I haven’t updated that in a while
  754. jonasw you need kernel support for fuse though
  755. jjrh Zash, those mp3 cd players came after - they still skipped
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  757. jjrh Minidisc was just rock solid
  758. jjrh has left
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  760. jonasw jjrh, unless you shaked the player too much :)
  761. jjrh well yeah none of this was a problem if you were sitting still
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  764. moparisthebest ah the old days of trying not to scratch them, or cleaning them off with breath and your shirt
  765. moparisthebest flash is so much better
  766. jonasw minidiscs didn’t have the dust issue
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  768. moparisthebest oh just looked it up, a mini CD inside a 3.5" floppy enclosure?
  769. moparisthebest odd
  770. jonasw yeah, kind of
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  772. jjrh on the discs, the actual optics were a disaster. That's what always broke for me. I had a sony store warranty - best warranty service ever. It was cheaper for them to give me a new minidisc player but instead they fixed the one I had - which I appreciated because I liked that player. Compared to when my creative zen broke and I took it back to futureshop they said "nah we don't have that anymore heres a ipod look it's a upgrade!"
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  780. jjrh if you really want a ipod mini or whatever though china got ya back https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-Big-promotion-Mirror-Portable-MP3-player-Mini-Clip-MP3-Player-waterproof-sport-mp3-music-player/32719915116.html
  781. Zash jonasw: *sigh* at yet another build toolchain to install tho
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  783. jjrh $1.38 can't really go wrong at that price.
  784. jonasw Zash, gcc can build go too
  785. jonasw if that helps
  786. Zash jonasw: I find your lack of a Makefile .. disturbing
  787. jonasw one doesn’t need one with go :/
  788. jonasw it’s just go build and magic happens
  789. jonasw I’m rather new to go things
  790. jonasw it’s my first go project
  791. Zash jonasw: You don't need one with C either, just 'make thing' and it magically compiles thing.c for you
  792. Zash jjrh: hah, shiny, but seems legaly grayareaish
  793. jjrh https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-100-original-English-version-Ultrathin-MP3-Player-with-4GB-storage-and-1-8-Inch-Screen/32613579921.html I bought this a year ago before traveling. It didn't play every flac I had but it was a solid little player. Software and UI could be better.
  794. SamWhited Zash: all the implicit C make rules make me sad though :( I've had multiple projects break because some random implicit rule was being cached and breaking things
  795. SamWhited (also I think that's a GNUMake thing, isn't it? If you don't have gmake you're pretty much hosed, but that's not as big of a deal)
  796. Zash SamWhited: I'm more saddened by the lack of a default rule to build .so
  797. jjrh Zash, yeah probably wouldn't win a legal battle but hey apple decided not to sell them anymore.
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  825. jjrh It's too bad rockbox doesn't run on any purchable devices.
  826. jonasw ebay is your friend
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  829. jjrh Yeah I suppose, but none of their supported devices are that attractive and the chinese stuff is <$30 for pretty capable hardware.
  830. jjrh I should open up my ruizu and see if there is any jtag connections
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  883. jonasw I find the iriver h320 quite amazing
  884. jonasw the sansas seem fine too
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  920. marc jonasw, Ge0rG: that's how I would like to see invitations implemented in XMPP: http://projects.zapb.de/tmp/xmpp-invite.mkv
  921. marc excuse my bad video editing skills :D
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  931. jonasw marc, that’s a solid start :)
  932. jonasw I’m missing a way to copy the URL without the QR-code
  933. marc jonasw, yes, but showing a URL on the invitation dialog is too easy ;)
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  935. jonasw :)
  936. jonasw and now we need this passwordless :)
  937. marc what do you mean?
  938. jonasw without having to type a password for the registration
  939. marc and what's the password then? :D
  940. marc Random password?
  941. jonasw the idea was to use client certificates in the background and don’t assign a password at all
  942. jonasw to add more devices, you’d have some small protocol which would allow a new device to register itself and its key with the server given the token
  943. jonasw to add more devices, you’d have some small protocol which would allow a new device to register itself and its key with the server given a token shown on the first device
  944. jonasw a password could be used in addition for recovery purposes
  945. marc okay, yes that would be nice
  946. jonasw wouldn’t it? :)
  947. marc but that's a complete other task / xep on top, right?
  948. jonasw yeah, I guess so
  949. jonasw but it belongs in the same big picture of easy onboarding
  950. marc I wouldn't mix this with invitation
  951. marc jonasw, of course!
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  953. jonasw yeah, don’t mix that protocol-wise :)
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  955. marc jonasw, okay, so in your opinion it's worth to write / publish a XEP for this, right?
  956. jonasw I think so
  957. jonasw I bet it will require some building on
  958. jonasw are you familiar with the XEP process?
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  960. jonasw (like, I can imagine that Ge0rG will have some ideas on this, but the basic idea is solid, I think)
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  1001. marc jonasw, no I don't :)
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  1003. jonasw marc, so aside from all the formalities, the process is basically: fork and clone the https://github.com/xsf/xeps/ repository, copy xep-template.xml to inbox/my-fancy-new-xep.xml, fill out the blanks and write down what you want to write down, git add, git commit, and make a PR with your commit
  1004. jonasw if you want more details about the formalities, those are written down in https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0001.html
  1005. jonasw https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0143.html but this is probably what you should read first
  1006. jonasw (Guidelines for Authors of XMPP Extension Protocols)
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  1008. jonasw if you’ve got any further questions, feel free to ask here
  1009. marc jonasw, I'll read this, thanks!
  1010. jonasw (or ping me specifically, be aware though that PMs don’t work right in this room, IIRC)
  1011. jonasw (you won’t have to read all of 143, most likely, since much of it is self-explaining, I think)
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