Thursday, November 30, 2017
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[08:32:47] <daniel> Kev: do you have a response to my last email in the mam group chat thread?
[08:33:21] <Kev> I'll try to get to that this afternoon or tomorrow afternoon. My current policy is to spend the mornings coding and afternoons dealing with everything else.
[08:33:37] <daniel> 👍
[08:34:04] <SouL> That's a good approach to life :)
[08:34:25] <Kev> I've got a bunch of other changes that need making for 313, so I'm tempted to write up a sentence that I think will make everyone happy, and include that in the patch and see what you think.
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[08:37:05] <edhelas> jonasw here ?
[08:37:18] <jonasw> edhelas, yes
[08:37:26] <edhelas> great :)
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[08:37:47] <edhelas> now that 0060 has been updated I'll see if I can update the XEPs that require multi-items
[08:38:21] <edhelas> I was thinking about 0277 and 0330 first
[08:38:45] <edhelas> also I'd like to move Bookmarks to that
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[08:38:56] <jonasw> edhelas, bookmarks is a hot topic, at least wait for next weeks council discussion
[08:39:13] <edhelas> yup, I'll update the others because it's just about clarification
[08:39:16] <jonasw> for the others, go ahead, those are experimental and deferred
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[08:39:35] <edhelas> if you have other XEPs in mind please tell me
[08:41:53] <jonasw> I don’t, I’m not really in the pubsub space
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[08:43:06] <edhelas> you should come, it's fun over there
[08:43:32] <jonasw> nah, I’m busy in MAM space currently :)
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[09:36:23] <edhelas> I start to have users that are putting a lot of private information in their XMPP account
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[09:36:47] <edhelas> I find the standard authentication (password) quite weak and I'd like to know if we could discuss about that
[09:37:01] <edhelas> basically maybe work on 2FA and password recovery
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[09:38:25] <jonasw> edhelas, regarding 2FA, SASL2 might be for you
[09:38:34] <jonasw> [xep 388]
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[09:38:38] <jonasw> -xep 388
[09:38:40] <Bunneh> jonasw: Extensible SASL Profile (Standards Track, Experimental, 2017-08-24)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0388.html
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[09:39:08] <edhelas> ah nice
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[10:10:28] <dwd> edhelas, I have a load of stuff done (coded up, everything) on this.
[10:10:42] <dwd> edhelas, I need to find the time to finish off the spec work.
[10:11:14] <dwd> edhelas, But if you want to help out that'd be awesome.
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[11:17:41] <daniel> zinid, to answer your question regarding bookmarks and avatars. this was postponed to next week. we haven't talked about this yesterday
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[11:27:21] <edhelas> zinid what was your question ?
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[11:38:39] <zinid> edhelas, I just asked what was the conclusion on bookmarks and avatars XEPs
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[11:39:38] <zinid> edhelas, it seems like some guys don't want PEP based avatars, for the record 🙂 Probably you won't like it a lot 🙂
[11:39:56] <edhelas> I want PEP for everything :p
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[11:41:14] <zinid> I know 😛
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[11:50:35] <pep.> I know
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[11:52:57] <pep.> rrr self_ping
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[14:10:31] <Guus> nyco - are you here for the upcoming board meeting?
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[14:19:12] <ralphm> I tried pinging nyco myself this morning and half an hour ago. No response yet.
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[14:23:47] <Guus> as did I - same result
[14:24:15] <ralphm> I learned from a colleague he's unavailable until at least 5pm, so I don't expect him
[14:25:02] <Guus> ah, to bad.
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[14:25:20] <Guus> well, let's give it a few minutes, see if we're lucky.
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[14:27:13] <Guus> if only we had a mechanism that'd allow us to see the availability of someone online... ;)
[14:27:53] <SouL> :D
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[14:30:00] *ralphm bangs gavel
[14:30:10] <ralphm> 0. Welcome and Agenda
[14:30:33] <ralphm> Hi, new board! Who do we have?
[14:30:40] *MattJ waves
[14:30:41] <Martin> I'm here
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[14:30:55] <Guus> o/
[14:31:21] <ralphm> As said before the meeting, through the grapevine, I've learned that's unlikely that nyco will attend today.
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[14:32:10] <ralphm> My suggested agenda is relatively simple: pick a Chair.
[14:32:31] <ralphm> The Board should also later appoint other Officers.
[14:33:12] <Guus> I'd like to quickly run over the outstanding Trello cards, see what's still relevant.
[14:33:14] <dwd> Can you pick a chair in the absence of a full Board?
[14:33:43] <ralphm> dwd: this is indeed a good question. I've tried getting into contact with nyco in various ways. So has Guus.
[14:33:47] <Guus> dwd: I'd be uncomfortable doing so.
[14:34:00] <ralphm> I'm not happy about that either
[14:34:20] <Guus> I would not object to postpone picking a chair until we all are present, and move on with other business, having Ralph continue to be chair for the time being.
[14:35:36] <ralphm> I think that's acceptable with regard to the bylaws, but opinions welcome.
[14:36:25] <MattJ> I'm fine to continue
[14:37:12] <ralphm> ok, so then I only offer the point of Appointment of Officers for the agenda
[14:37:19] <MattJ> I don't see how the bylaws would forbid it (though neither how they require the full board to elect the chair)
[14:37:19] <ralphm> along with walking over the Trello board
[14:37:57] <ralphm> 1. Confirm minute taker
[14:38:07] <ralphm> Who will do the honors?
[14:38:18] <ralphm> (dwd?)
[14:38:32] <Guus> I'll do them
[14:38:36] <Kev> (Belatedly, I think delaying voting on a new Chair until all are present is ideal too)
[14:39:05] <ralphm> Guus: appreciated, but it would also be nice if it was not a Board member, so that's why I ask
[14:39:16] <ralphm> last term dwd offered
[14:39:17] <Kev> I'm AFK in a few minutes, so I can't, sorry.
[14:39:24] <ralphm> Kev: thanks!
[14:39:59] <Guus> Ralphm: I'd be happy for someone else to do them. :)
[14:40:03] <ralphm> :-)
[14:40:14] <ralphm> Let's see if someone else pops up, but for now it is you
[14:40:16] <dwd> I'm only somewhat here. Rather busy today.
[14:40:23] <ralphm> ok
[14:40:32] <ralphm> 2. Appointment of Officers
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[14:40:45] <Guus> What Officers?
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[14:41:11] <ralphm> Besides the Chair, we also need to re-appoint Secretary, Treasurer and Executive Director.
[14:41:50] <ralphm> In the previous term, Peter has noted he wanted to step down as ED
[14:41:52] <MattJ> Didn't Peter indicate intent to resign the position(s)?
[14:41:53] <Guus> I've not read up in the bylaws. Can you outline the procedure?
[14:42:09] <ralphm> but would still be Treasurer. Alex is our current secretary.
[14:42:19] <ralphm> Let's ask them if they want to continue for another term
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[14:42:31] <ralphm> Guus: what!
[14:42:44] <ralphm> ARTICLE VI: Officers

Section 6.1 Number and Qualifications. The officers of the Corporation shall consist of the following: (a) a Chair, (b) an Executive Director, (c) a Secretary, and (d) a Treasurer. Officers must be natural persons that the Board of Directors elects or appoints. Officers need not be Directors of the Corporation and shall hold office at the discretion of the Board of Directors. Subject to these Bylaws, the Board of Directors may also elect or appoint one or more additional officers or assistant officers as it may deem convenient or necessary. Except as provided in these Bylaws, the Board of Directors shall fix the powers and duties of all officers.
[14:43:04] <ralphm> (oh, Gajim, you are so funny with emoticons)
[14:43:31] <Guus> that doesn't state a term for those officers. Is there a requirement to re-appoint them?
[14:43:46] <Guus> (apart from ED, who has expressed intention to step down)
[14:43:52] <ralphm> Guus: please read the bylaws
[14:43:57] <Guus> Ok
[14:44:03] <ralphm> The term is 1 year for all officers
[14:44:48] <Guus> In any case, I'm happy with the suggestion to ask the existing officers to continue for another term.
[14:45:04] <ralphm> Ok.
[14:45:06] <MattJ> "Each officer shall hold office for a period of one year or until his or her successor is elected and qualified or until his or her earlier resignation or removal."
[14:45:24] <ralphm> Yeah, I think that is a bit ambiguous.
[14:45:53] <Guus> Doesn't hurt to ask them explicitly.
[14:45:53] <ralphm> Does it mean you'll hold the office beyond a year if no-one else comes up?
[14:46:13] <ralphm> anyway
[14:46:18] <Guus> Shall I draft a quick email to both?
[14:46:31] <ralphm> 3. Sure
[14:46:35] <ralphm> oops
[14:46:36] <ralphm> sure!
[14:46:47] <ralphm> 3. Topics for decisions
[14:47:03] <ralphm> I see the item of renaming Draft to Stable.
[14:48:06] <ralphm> I think we said last time that there's no consensus. Can we remove this item?
[14:48:14] <ralphm> MattJ?
[14:48:18] <MattJ> I think we can remove it for now, until a new proposal is made
[14:48:29] <MattJ> The current one did not reach consensus
[14:48:37] <Guus> Agreed.
[14:48:54] <ralphm> 4. Commitments
[14:49:20] <ralphm> Apart from that e-mail by Guus, I'd like to add one for searching for a replacement ED
[14:49:37] <ralphm> While I'm Chair, I'll take that one
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[14:49:58] <ralphm> There's also an item about a D&O quote. I think I need to figure that out with stpeter, too.
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[14:50:13] <Guus> What is that?
[14:50:19] <ralphm> My point
[14:50:31] <ralphm> I think nobody remembers exactly
[14:50:34] <Guus> also: as Peter is no board member - why are we tracking this?
[14:50:44] <ralphm> Peter is Executive Director
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[14:50:48] <ralphm> and Treasurer
[14:50:56] <MattJ> It was a task assigned to Peter by the boar
[14:50:59] <MattJ> *d
[14:51:01] <MattJ> iirc
[14:51:02] <Guus> ah.
[14:51:13] <ralphm> in both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretart and the Chair of Council
[14:51:25] <ralphm> in both roles, he's invited for Board meetings, as well as the Secretary and the Chair of Council
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[14:51:34] <Guus> No-one remembers what 'D&O' is?
[14:51:44] <dwd> Guus, Director and Officer insurance.
[14:51:49] <MattJ> Insurance
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[14:51:58] <Guus> ah
[14:52:13] <Guus> thanks
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[14:52:40] <ralphm> Last comment I saw by Peter was 30-8:
[14:52:41] <ralphm> This fell off my radar screen. If it is still a priority I can look into
it again. It tends to be expensive, but I can report back on details.
[14:53:06] <Guus> Actually, I've looked into this for another Foundation - it doesn't need to be that expensive.
[14:53:37] <ralphm> Guus: if you want, please check with Peter
[14:53:44] <Guus> but that might be in a Dutch setting only - unsure
[14:53:46] <Guus> Ok, I will
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[14:54:02] <ralphm> 5. Items for discussion
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[14:54:11] <ralphm> Let's use this to quickly go over the backlog
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[14:54:47] <ralphm> Last Board failed to agree on a list of priorities. So let's try for real this time
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[14:55:34] <ralphm> I'm not sure about the IoT strategy doc, alternative meeting org
[14:55:42] <ralphm> the meetups sync seems to be for SCAM?
[14:56:11] <Guus> as there's no progress on both for a long time, lets archive the IoT strategy doc and alternative meeting org.
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[14:56:16] <ralphm> Aye
[14:56:29] <Guus> I agree on the meetup sync bit - that aught to be scam
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[14:57:10] <ralphm> for the SPIM thing, that doesn't require anything from us right now. Anyone can write a XEP to propose this
[14:57:19] <Guus> I think the idea of a SPIM-focussed work team is something to be discussed.
[14:57:38] <ralphm> ok
[14:57:39] <Guus> Ah. I read that as: create a group of people focussed on that, solely.
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[14:57:58] <ralphm> Not sure if that needs Board, but sure, let's put it there
[14:58:08] <Guus> I'm not sure why people be more inclined to work on that after being grouped though.
[14:58:24] <MattJ> Yeah, I think some concrete goals should be defined before forming the group
[14:58:42] <ralphm> That leaves us with the membership survey
[14:58:44] <MattJ> Rather than just a vague "we need to fix the spam problem, let's form a group"
[14:58:51] <ralphm> Shall I keep that for discussion?
[14:59:05] <Guus> doesn't the survey tie in with the priorities?
[14:59:14] <ralphm> maybe
[14:59:24] <Guus> as in: one's output should be the others input?
[14:59:28] <ralphm> I'd also like everyone to think about the priorities next to that
[14:59:55] <Guus> nyco appears to have done quite some legwork on that
[14:59:56] <ralphm> I mean, we are part of the community, too, so there might be some things you already know you want to work on this term
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[15:00:37] <ralphm> Shall I move it to discussion then?
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[15:00:57] <MattJ> +1
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[15:01:04] <Guus> sure
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[15:01:06] <ralphm> Ok. I think we're out of time
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[15:01:09] <ralphm> 6. Date of Next
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[15:01:13] <Ge0rG> I've asked for the creation of a SPAM taskforce, which would operate behind closed doors at first, but it was not deemed acceptable.
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[15:01:16] <ralphm> I suggest +1W
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[15:01:25] <ralphm> until we hear from nyco otherwise
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[15:01:42] <Martin> +1W is fine with me
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[15:01:46] <MattJ> +1W++
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[15:01:54] <ralphm> Ge0rG: that's not entirely true. There was simply no consensus
[15:01:54] <Guus> Shall I provisionally move the scheduled item in the calendar?
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[15:01:56] <ralphm> (yet)
[15:01:56] <Guus> (works for me)
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[15:02:01] <ralphm> Guus: yes please
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[15:02:10] <ralphm> 7. Close
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[15:02:12] <ralphm> Thanks all!
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[15:02:13] <Guus> one AOB: there's an old wiki page for board with stale data. Can we remove that?
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[15:02:31] <Ge0rG> ralphm: I think the consensus was that anybody can form any kind of closed group and that the XSF shouldn't approve of this specific one
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[15:02:34] <ralphm> Guus: A link would be good.
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[15:02:48] <Guus> https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board
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[15:02:57] <Ge0rG> ralphm: that was not meant as a criticism, I'm okay with the decision - just a reminder of why this was on the agenda
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[15:03:04] <ralphm> Guus: sure archive
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[15:03:13] <Guus> Instead, I propose to redirect that link to the public website (which is what we do for Council, too)
[15:03:22] <ralphm> Ge0rG: so we can remove it from our Trello then?
[15:04:02] <Ge0rG> ralphm: unless you want to form an official SPIM fighting group open to the public, I think you can remove it
[15:04:21] <ralphm> I'll leave it on for next week, and then we make that decision
[15:04:25] *ralphm bangs gavel
[15:04:29] <MattJ> Thanks ralphm
[15:04:31] <Ge0rG> thanks, Board :)
[15:04:34] <Guus> thank you guys
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[15:05:22] <Ge0rG> MattJ: I'm still missing you in that MUC, and I think you are still blocking messages from strangers.
[15:05:25] <Guus> Can someone give me access to Trello, please?
[15:05:29] <Guus> the Board board, specifically.
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[15:05:40] <ralphm> I will
[15:05:43] <Guus> tx
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[15:06:15] <MattJ> Ge0rG, invite me? I'm not blocking messages from strangers (since a while back, as my receipt of many spam messages proves)
[15:06:24] <ralphm> Guus: what's your handle?
[15:06:43] <Ge0rG> MattJ: invited you, once again :)
[15:07:00] <MattJ> Ok, weird, I didn't receive it :/
[15:07:32] <Ge0rG> MattJ: last time we tried it, it was blocked by some module/config on your server/account.
[15:07:56] <Guus> ralphm: guusderkinderen
[15:08:19] <ralphm> done
[15:08:30] <Guus> I've just rescheduled the XSF Board agenda item in the calendar - can someone kindly verify that I didn't mess up?
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[15:08:38] <Guus> ralphm: thanks
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[15:11:59] <ralphm> Looks good to me, Guus. Thanks
[15:12:35] <Guus> great
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[15:14:28] <jonasw> SamWhited, re colors, I’m thinking of putting the base algorithm in a single block, and only noting the differences for the individual modifications (like CVD correction, background correction etc.) in separate sections
[15:14:51] <jonasw> in addition to cleaning up my reference implementation and putting it somewhere public
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[15:49:36] <SamWhited> hmm, my CVD corretion doesn't appear to be working, but without that it's passing the tests
[15:50:00] <SamWhited> I don't think that was due to anything confusing in the document though, just a bug of mine
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[16:07:39] <SamWhited> ah yah, MSB not LSB
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[16:11:46] <SamWhited> jonasw: I think the second test for blue-blindness correction may be wrong, can you confirm the values there when you get a moment?
[16:12:03] <jonasw> sure
[16:12:20] <jonasw> working on those things at the moment anyways
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[16:18:13] <SamWhited> hmm, my naive impression is that for blue-blindness that color wouldn't change actually (no blue component when I convert it to RGB), so maybe my implementation is broken. Not sure how it would affect that single value though
[16:18:30] <jonasw> maybe the others aren’t affected by blue correction
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[16:20:21] <SamWhited> The first one shouldn't be either, but it appears to be changing (and my implementation seems to work there)
[16:20:57] <SamWhited> Well, I say "shouldn't be", I'm not sure, I'm just guessing based on the blue component
[16:21:08] <SamWhited> I should do the floating point version of the math and check
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[16:26:26] <SamWhited> That's weird, if I check the angle before applying the correction it is different from yours for everything *except* this one, but the final result is correct for everything except this one.
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[16:27:12] <jonasw> what
[16:27:14] <jonasw> that’s weird
[16:27:25] <jonasw> I haven’t checked the non-floating-point way though
[16:27:40] <jonasw> I just trusted what Marcel said on list
[16:27:53] <jonasw> I’ll try to implement that in the C++ app I’m currently building right now
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[16:30:25] <jonasw> afk for dinner now though
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[16:39:54] <SamWhited> jonasw: also, the first test in blue-blindness doesn't have enough columns (I think it's missing the g/b values)
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[16:40:22] <SamWhited> or something; it doesn't match the headers anyways, but it looks like others don't too so maybe the headers are wrong
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[16:41:10] <SamWhited> oh nevermind, I refreshed and that's already been fixed…
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[17:04:35] <jonasw> SamWhited, if the columns changed, did you accidentally use the wrong tables?
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[17:07:05] <SamWhited> No, I had two versions of the document open and didn't notice. I was using the right one when I put these values in though
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[17:08:46] <SamWhited> I found at least one bug in my blue correction, but fixing that just changed what's failing (all the others are failing and the second one is passing). It's very confusing.
[17:09:43] <jonasw> care to paste the cvd and test code?
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[17:09:49] <jonasw> would be happy to take a look
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[17:09:56] <SamWhited> sure, just a second
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[17:10:41] <SamWhited> I'm still setting the wrong bit on the blue correction, will fix then push
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[17:12:13] <jonasw> anglei = (anglei & 0x7fff) | ((anglei & 0x4000) << 1);
[17:12:19] <jonasw> this is what I’m doing and I think it does the right thing
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[17:19:22] <SamWhited> jonasw: isn't it the inverse of the second bit you want?
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[17:20:01] <jonasw> the second-most-significant
[17:20:23] <jonasw> so if 15th is the most significant, you want the inverse of the 14th
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[17:20:30] <jonasw> right
[17:20:33] <SamWhited> right, there you're just taking the second most significant not doing the inverse
[17:20:35] <jonasw> that’s not the inverse.
[17:21:00] <jonasw> now I need to hceck which is correct with the FP version :)
[17:21:09] <jonasw> (I *think* that both would work)
[17:21:13] <jonasw> cvd-wise
[17:21:44] <jonasw> yeah, with ~ before the last anglei
[17:22:25] <jonasw> interesting, apparently CSS will apply **0.45 to the colors, while Qt wont
[17:22:27] <jonasw> that’s great >.>
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[17:22:47] <jonasw> or something else is fishy
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[17:28:14] <SamWhited> Fixed it, I had an order of operations issue the whole time *facepalm*
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[17:28:42] <SamWhited> https://bitbucket.org/mellium/xmpp/branch/xep0392_color
[17:29:01] <SamWhited> i = (i & 0x7fff) | (((i & 0x4000) << 1) ^ 0x8000) should do the right thing
[17:29:26] <jonasw> yup, seems sane
[17:31:01] <SamWhited> That's easy enough to make simple mistakes on that it might be worth including it in that section
[17:31:13] <jonasw> yeah
[17:31:28] <SamWhited> Same for the "i &= 0x7fff" for red-green blindness
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[17:34:10] <jonasw> noted for the next update
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[18:41:39] <Ge0rG> It looks only slightly less awkward than the Java version. I've really started to love python's struct.pack() for those use cases
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[18:45:00] <jonasw> int.from_bytes(hash[:2], "little") is what I did
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[19:18:53] <SamWhited> In retrospect I'm not sure why I implemented Go's Hash interface. I can't imagine anyone wanting to use this for large amounts of data or wanting to pass it in as a replacement for some actual hash…
[19:19:19] <SamWhited> So really I could remove all the API nonsense and have it just be a single function
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[20:12:00] <jonasw> is anyone working on restoring xmpp.net, by the way? I recall Arc wanted to do something about that
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[20:23:47] <jonasw> hm, nice, the luasec version needed by xmpppoke doesn’t work with libssl1.1
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[20:24:42] <Zash> "nice", "luasec" and "openssl" in the same sentence? sarcasm detected
[20:24:47] <jonasw> indeed
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[20:24:58] <jonasw> debian oldstable it is!
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[20:29:17] <Holger> Yeah I built some of these things myself on check.messaging.one.
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[20:29:24] <Holger> Debain oldstable too.
[20:30:00] <jonasw> Holger, do you happen to have a recipe of some kind for that?
[20:30:10] <jonasw> I’m trying to devise a dockerfile I can then throw at iteam
[20:30:19] <Holger> You need an older OpenSSL anyway for the SSLv2 checking.
[20:30:31] <jonasw> hm, maybe I should just use the libssl from testssl.sh?
[20:31:01] <Holger> I don't have proper docs sorry, but if you're stumbling over specific issues I can try to recall how I solved them.
[20:31:16] <jonasw> nothing out of the ordinary yet
[20:31:23] <jonasw> except that developing these things with docker is annoying
[20:31:45] <Holger> I also have various xmppoke backend/frontend fixes. But just a big diff, not individual commits, yay.
[20:31:52] <jonasw> :/
[20:31:59] <jonasw> could you share these eventually?
[20:32:10] <Holger> I'm sorry. I was annoyed and wanted to get this set up quickly.
[20:32:13] <Holger> Yes sure.
[20:32:16] <jonasw> I understand :)
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[20:38:52] <Holger> I used OpenSSL 1.0.2k as that's the most-recent version with v2 support.
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[20:39:47] <Holger> Needs "./config enable-ssl2 ...".
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[20:40:18] <Zash> I wonder if you can get away with just sending a raw SSL v2/v3 handshake and look for success/fail in the response, instead of having full support for it in OpenSSL
[20:40:28] <Holger> Probably.
[20:40:39] <jonasw> I’m now giving it a shot with the OpenSSL build used by testssl.sh
[20:40:43] <jonasw> which is 1.0.2k with some patches
[20:40:50] <Holger> Ah.
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[20:41:04] <jonasw> doing the one thing one should probably never do with that piece of software: make insatll.
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[20:46:18] <Holger> Ah the backend diff is not that bad actually: https://check.messaging.one/patches/xmppoke.diff.txt
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[20:47:30] <jonasw> indeed
[20:47:36] <Holger> The frontend diff is :-/
[20:47:39] <Holger> https://check.messaging.one/patches/xmppoke-frontend.diff.txt
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[20:48:59] <Holger> ... because there's bug fixes hidden between all those cosmetic changes.
[20:49:20] <zinid> https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/meme/images/1/1d/Yt655563971_a663674241_z.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150712012656
[20:49:39] <Holger> Haha.
[20:50:06] <zinid> me when I see web thing
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[21:37:39] <marc> Ge0rG, that's my vision of user invitation on mobile devices: https://projects.zapb.de/tmp/xmpp-invite-conversations.webm
[21:38:05] <marc> Providing a username is optional, of course
[21:42:33] <Ge0rG> MattJ: there, easy onboarding
[21:43:35] <SamWhited> jonasw: I figured out what I was looking at earlier when I thought the columns were wrong… in the other version of the document I had open it wasn't an old one, I was just scrolled down to the color pallete tests and they have the wrong number of fields
[21:44:46] <Ge0rG> marc: why do you need to enter two names?
[21:45:32] <marc> Ge0rG, username is optional (required in this setup) and predefines the username of the JID
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[21:45:39] <marc> Ge0rG, your name = name of the inviter
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[21:45:55] <Ge0rG> marc: you don't need any names to create an invitation
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[21:46:13] <marc> Ge0rG, sure, both are optional
[21:46:49] <marc> or not even possible to be set, depends on your configuration
[21:46:54] <Flow> And ideally the your name field is pre-filled with possibly existing vcard information
[21:47:03] <marc> Flow, exactly!
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[21:47:55] <marc> Ge0rG, in my current ejabberd setup, inviter name and username are configured as "requried"
[21:48:12] <marc> that's why they need to be filled out
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[21:49:42] <marc> the inviter name is also used for the roster item
[21:50:27] <Ge0rG> marc: too many things to do....
[21:51:21] <Ge0rG> Get the inviter name from the vCard and let the invitee specify their own name
[21:51:50] <marc> Ge0rG, once again, that's configurable
[21:52:26] <marc> you don't even see the input fields if you configure your server in that way
[21:52:32] <Flow> but pre fill the roster entry name on the invitee's UI with the possibly provided inviter name
[21:52:54] <Flow> marc: good job so far
[21:53:07] <marc> Ge0rG, if you click "invite contact" you immediatley get the QR code
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[21:53:17] <marc> Ge0rG, that's just because I configured the server in that way...
[21:53:21] <marc> Flow, thanks!
[21:53:35] <Flow> what is the rationale for the "benutername"?
[21:53:55] <Flow> what is the incentive for me to enter it?
[21:54:03] <marc> Flow, you have the choice to predefine the JID
[21:54:19] <Flow> predefine the JID?
[21:54:29] <marc> you can set the username part of the new JID
[21:55:04] <Flow> ahh ok, I'd eventually switch the order of fields
[21:55:06] <marc> If Benutername = "marc", the JID of the new created account is marc@<server>
[21:55:11] <marc> Flow, yes
[21:55:11] <Ge0rG> I would leave that to the invitee
[21:55:20] <marc> Ge0rG, you can configure it ;)
[21:55:32] <marc> Flow, just a proof of concept
[21:55:35] <Flow> sure
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[21:55:41] <marc> But a working one :)
[21:55:55] <Zash> Beware those
[21:55:59] <marc> But UI is not perfect and there are some corner-case bugs
[21:56:22] <Zash> I made a proof of concept once. Now everyone uses it as if it was production ready!
[21:57:21] <marc> Sure, that's why I didn't publish the code yet :D
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[21:58:57] <marc> Ge0rG, you're not really convinced, hm? :D
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[22:24:23] <Ge0rG> marc: you are doing a good job, and it's important to do. I'm just a hardcore perfectionist.
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[22:24:42] <Zash> Getting the right level of feedback is Hard
[22:24:51] <Ge0rG> marc: do you need help wiring the XEP?
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[22:25:52] <Ge0rG> I'm sometimes a bit blunt with my feedback, sorry
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[22:26:23] <Zash> The trick, according to some blag I saw once, is to make your thing look about as finished as it is
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[22:30:26] <marc> Ge0rG, good, I'm a perfectionist too :D
[22:30:58] <marc> Ge0rG, I have a XEP version with the protocol flow and some references but far away from "ready-to-submit"
[22:31:23] <marc> I'll probably push it on my Git repo in a couple of days
[22:31:28] <Zash> marc: That sounds like "ready-to-submit" to me
[22:32:01] <marc> Zash, not for a perfectionist :>
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