Friday, January 12, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
January
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
       
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:02:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:05:41] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:05:58] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:07:00] *** Guus shows as "online"
[00:08:25] *** uc has joined the room
[00:10:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:10:36] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:10:40] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:10:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[00:10:46] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:11:41] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:11:43] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:12:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:12:06] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:12:33] *** zinid has left the room
[00:13:06] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[00:15:10] *** zinid has joined the room
[00:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:17:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:18:20] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[00:19:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:19:02] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:19:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:20:09] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:28:20] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[00:28:21] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:28:59] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:32:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:32:31] *** Syndace has left the room
[00:32:35] *** Syndace has joined the room
[00:33:54] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[00:37:17] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:37:20] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:40:15] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[00:41:04] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[00:42:26] *** Zash has left the room
[00:42:33] *** Zash shows as "online"
[00:42:48] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[00:46:13] *** Zash has left the room
[00:46:22] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[00:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:47:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:51:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[00:53:21] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:53:23] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:53:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:53:40] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:54:38] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:54:39] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:54:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:55:04] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:56:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[00:58:35] *** bra shows as "online"
[01:00:40] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[01:01:38] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[01:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[01:07:28] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[01:09:32] *** Zash has left the room
[01:10:24] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[01:11:07] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[01:15:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:15:09] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[01:15:13] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:15:17] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[01:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[01:17:28] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[01:22:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:22:25] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[01:22:27] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:22:33] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[01:24:30] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[01:24:46] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[01:25:57] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[01:26:48] <pep.> > going by this page: http://search.wensley.org.uk/chat/
> do rooms about clients count? :)
> if not, IT-MSE probbaly counts, whatever that is
> GNU/Linux is second (30)
This is sad :(
[01:29:30] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[01:31:09] <pep.> OTOH, I would probably bridge my room to IRC if is I had a room here for some random project
[01:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[01:37:49] *** zinid has left the room
[01:39:30] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[01:39:46] *** zinid has joined the room
[01:44:18] *** Kev has left the room
[01:45:40] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:45:40] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[01:45:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:45:56] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[01:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:47:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[01:49:56] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[01:50:48] *** ralphm has joined the room
[01:52:19] *** SamWhited has left the room
[01:54:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[01:56:36] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[01:56:54] *** Guus has left the room
[01:56:55] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:57:45] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[02:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:03:24] *** xnyhps has left the room
[02:03:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[02:03:27] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[02:08:32] *** Guus has left the room
[02:13:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[02:16:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:16:23] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[02:16:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:16:31] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[02:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:17:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:17:44] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[02:17:48] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[02:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:40:50] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[02:45:55] *** bra shows as "online"
[02:46:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:46:52] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[02:47:05] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:47:11] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[02:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:09:10] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:17:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:17:23] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[03:17:33] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:17:40] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[03:29:10] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:36:08] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[03:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:47:24] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:47:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:47:53] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[03:47:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:48:00] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:04:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:04:55] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:04:58] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:05:03] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:09:46] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:09:58] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:18:03] *** efrit has joined the room
[04:26:45] *** efrit has left the room
[04:26:58] *** efrit has joined the room
[04:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:39:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:39:53] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:39:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:40:04] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[04:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:50:44] *** tux has left the room
[04:50:44] *** tux has joined the room
[05:02:23] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:02:25] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:07:51] *** suzyo has joined the room
[05:10:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:10:34] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:19:21] *** efrit has left the room
[05:22:16] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[05:22:18] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:24:21] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:24:24] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:35:00] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:36:34] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:40:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:40:52] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:41:03] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:41:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:41:06] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:41:12] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:44:35] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:45:00] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[05:45:14] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:45:36] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:46:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:46:51] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:46:55] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:47:00] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[05:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:47:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:02:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:05:04] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:05:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:10:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:15:44] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:17:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:17:23] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[06:17:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:17:36] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[06:22:26] *** zinid shows as "online"
[06:28:41] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:28:45] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:34:56] *** Syndace has left the room
[06:34:59] *** Syndace has joined the room
[06:45:08] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:45:43] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[06:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:47:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:47:53] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:48:00] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[06:56:07] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:01:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:02:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:02:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:15:40] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:16:18] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:16:20] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:17:31] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:17:49] *** Tobias has joined the room
[07:18:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:18:52] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:19:00] *** zinid has left the room
[07:19:30] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:23:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:24:08] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[07:26:16] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:26:24] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[07:27:39] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:28:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:28:14] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:29:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:29:33] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:31:44] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:31:45] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:35:10] *** ralphm has joined the room
[07:37:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:37:02] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:41:12] *** ralphm has left the room
[07:42:22] *** ralphm has joined the room
[07:43:25] <zinid> moparisthebest, now I can refer to your article! :D https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/blob/master/ejabberd.yml.example#L191
[07:43:31] *** Guus has left the room
[07:43:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:45:45] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[07:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:49:13] *** Zash has joined the room
[07:50:32] *** Guus has left the room
[07:50:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:51:00] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:51:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:51:25] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:51:31] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:51:34] *** intosi shows as "online"
[07:56:44] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:58:22] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[08:00:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:00:13] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[08:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:06:34] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:08:46] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[08:11:46] *** blabla shows as "online"
[08:12:22] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[08:12:23] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[08:15:23] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:20:49] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:20:58] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[08:23:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:23:36] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[08:24:35] *** daniel shows as "online"
[08:25:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:26:09] *** daniel has left the room
[08:28:13] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:28:47] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:31:05] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:31:08] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[08:31:13] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[08:31:15] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[08:32:20] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[08:32:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[08:32:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:32:32] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:34:33] *** marc has joined the room
[08:34:44] *** Tobias has joined the room
[08:37:56] *** daniel shows as "online"
[08:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:47:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:48:02] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[08:48:23] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:50:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:50:29] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[08:52:20] *** zinid shows as "online"
[08:53:10] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:53:25] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[08:54:57] *** goffi has joined the room
[08:57:51] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[08:57:57] *** marc has left the room
[09:00:17] *** Kev has joined the room
[09:00:23] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:00:39] *** Kev shows as "online"
[09:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:12:47] *** Martin has joined the room
[09:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:17:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:23:15] <edhelas> https://nl.movim.eu/?blog/arie@movim.eu/0d590c16-75f9-4683-835b-c4003dcebc44
[09:30:51] *** Syndace has left the room
[09:30:54] *** Syndace has joined the room
[09:30:55] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:32:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:32:36] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:36:51] <zinid> yeah
[09:37:17] <zinid> I also wonder why Signal is considered more secure than Whatsapp?
[09:37:29] <zinid> same proprietary silo
[09:37:38] <mathieui> hm no?
[09:37:44] <mathieui> signal isn’t controled by facebook
[09:37:49] <zinid> and?
[09:38:09] <mathieui> and iirc the server can do less things in signal
[09:38:39] <zinid> like requesting private key?
[09:39:18] <Ge0rG> Signal is controlled by moxie, who used to be an anarchist crypto nerd before he got bought.
[09:39:38] <zinid> so this is a question of trust? which is very personal
[09:39:44] <zinid> for example, why would I trust moxie?
[09:44:22] *** vanitasvitae has joined the room
[09:46:21] <edhelas> don't
[09:46:30] <edhelas> but we all know the position of moxie on federation/decentralisation
[09:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:47:42] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[09:48:37] *** Alex has joined the room
[09:49:53] <daniel> Ge0rG: are anarchist crypto nerds those assassination market people?
[09:50:17] <daniel> All pretty legit and trustworthy
[09:50:36] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:53:26] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[09:55:52] *** daniel has left the room
[09:56:05] *** daniel shows as "online"
[09:58:56] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:58:57] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[10:00:34] *** ralphm has left the room
[10:00:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:00:50] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[10:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:08:36] <Ge0rG> daniel: I'm pretty sure there are different sub-groups.
[10:09:18] <zinid> edhelas, "all"? I knew about moxie from this conference (or conversations@, don't remember), I know jack shit about moxie actually 🙂
[10:09:43] *** tux shows as "online"
[10:10:18] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[10:11:07] *** lumi has joined the room
[10:12:48] *** marc has joined the room
[10:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:18:27] *** Tobias has left the room
[10:22:35] *** marc shows as "online"
[10:23:05] *** tux shows as "online"
[10:27:38] *** Tobias has joined the room
[10:28:33] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[10:28:34] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[10:28:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[10:28:41] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[10:31:18] *** waqas has left the room
[10:32:14] *** ralphm has left the room
[10:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:32:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:35:15] *** waqas has joined the room
[10:35:16] *** waqas has left the room
[10:35:46] *** waqas has joined the room
[10:35:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[10:39:41] *** zinid shows as "online"
[10:39:41] *** zinid has left the room
[10:39:44] *** zinid shows as "online"
[10:41:13] *** tux has left the room
[10:41:13] *** tux shows as "online"
[10:42:28] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[10:43:59] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[10:43:59] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[10:46:10] *** zinid has left the room
[10:46:11] *** zinid shows as "online"
[10:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:47:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:50:05] <edhelas> Holger zinid should we clarify 0060 for this one ? https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/2129
[10:50:50] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[10:51:03] *** Martin shows as "online"
[10:51:05] <zinid> edhelas, I'm no pubsub expert, sorry, I barely can understand the problem
[10:51:18] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:52:02] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[10:53:41] <Holger> Yes this should be clarified if you ask me.
[10:55:39] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:56:05] *** ralphm has joined the room
[10:57:21] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:57:24] *** Martin shows as "online"
[10:59:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[10:59:04] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[10:59:20] <MattJ> I don't see what there is to clarify
[10:59:28] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[10:59:30] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[10:59:34] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[10:59:52] <MattJ> Someone might think that deleting their account allows their pubsub nodes to be modified by others?
[11:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:02:57] <Holger> MattJ: Both you and me have write access to a node. Does that mean you can override items published by me?
[11:03:13] <Holger> MattJ: That's not clear (to me) from reading 0060. See that issue.
[11:03:30] <MattJ> Ok, I see
[11:03:39] <MattJ> It didn't see clear to me that that's what the issue was about
[11:03:48] <Zash> Item ownership?
[11:04:38] <MattJ> Opens a can of worms
[11:05:42] *** daniel has left the room
[11:05:44] <zinid> there is a similar problem with MUCs (if I understand it correctly): account deletion doesn't trigger deletion of ownership in remote MUCs
[11:05:59] <zinid> so you can re-register the account and become an owner 😉
[11:06:51] <Holger> Yeah. Or just become member of a members-only group.
[11:07:22] <Ge0rG> Now I can't delete accounts any more? I need to convert them all into tombstones?
[11:07:47] <MattJ> Ge0rG, welcome to federation
[11:07:57] <zinid> a client probably needs to clean up everything carefully, but that's PITA
[11:08:17] <Ge0rG> zinid: you can't have a client clean up everything if you ban a user.
[11:08:19] <MattJ> That's not always feasible
[11:08:37] *** ralphm has joined the room
[11:08:41] <Ge0rG> Also not all clients of a user know their remote MUC ownerships
[11:08:44] <Kev> More or less you can never delete accounts safely in XMPP, you must always tombstone.
[11:08:57] <Kev> At least for federated systems you don't control.
[11:09:10] <zinid> yeah, so just don't delete your account 🙂
[11:09:16] <Holger> Anyway those are separate problems. The user who created that ejabberd issue is indeed fighting with deleted accounts (and I see the problem), but he stumbled over that PubSub question which is just as unclear if the accounts in question still exist.
[11:09:17] <zinid> however, server admins can do that 🙂
[11:09:24] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:12:40] <Holger> I clearly see the use case for giving multiple JIDs write access to a node without allowing them to delete/override each others items. So if 0060 doesn't make this possible that's bad.
[11:13:08] <Holger> I think this should be the default behavior, just needs some clarification.
[11:13:08] <intosi> Holger: you mean publish-only?
[11:13:26] <Holger> If there's also a use case for allowing to delete/override each others items then 0060 needs additional magic.
[11:13:39] <intosi> Although that precludes reading items.
[11:13:50] <Holger> intosi: You're always able to edit/delete items you published yourself.
[11:14:12] <Holger> (Which can also be a problem.)
[11:14:43] <Holger> This is just about messing with stuff published by others.
[11:15:13] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:15:34] <Ge0rG> That sounds like an Enterprise Feature.
[11:17:10] *** ralphm has joined the room
[11:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:20:28] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[11:21:48] <Holger> I think people like goffi and edhelas are having a hard time trying to use 0060 for very basic features ...
[11:22:29] <edhelas> just a bit :-)
[11:23:25] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:26:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:28:23] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[11:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:33:18] *** Guus has left the room
[11:33:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:37:53] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:39:27] *** Alex has left the room
[11:39:44] *** ralphm has joined the room
[11:43:07] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[11:45:16] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[11:46:05] *** zinid shows as "online"
[11:47:09] *** ralphm has left the room
[11:47:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:47:32] *** Guus has left the room
[11:49:33] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[11:51:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:51:44] *** valo has left the room
[11:51:49] *** valo has joined the room
[11:52:14] *** ralphm has joined the room
[11:53:08] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:59:09] *** nyco has left the room
[12:01:04] *** Zash has left the room
[12:01:38] *** Zash has joined the room
[12:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:02:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:04:28] *** nyco shows as "online"
[12:05:06] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:09:44] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:10:33] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[12:15:46] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:15:47] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[12:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:17:47] <MattJ> It's because XEP-0060 is too generic
[12:18:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:18:02] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[12:18:12] <MattJ> Which means for most practical applications, it doesn't suffice, or has to be made more complex
[12:18:17] <waqas> It lacks proper turning completeness though…
[12:18:44] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:18:52] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[12:19:14] *** lumi shows as "online"
[12:19:17] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[12:19:58] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:20:00] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[12:20:34] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[12:20:57] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:22:43] *** Guus has left the room
[12:22:45] *** Guus shows as "online"
[12:23:51] *** nyco has left the room
[12:24:28] *** nyco shows as "online"
[12:24:42] <Zash> Small change to the notification transformation settings so you can make it send iq stanzas, and then do pubsub that way
[12:25:58] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[12:27:01] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:28:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[12:28:48] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[12:30:49] *** matlag has left the room
[12:32:02] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[12:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:32:32] *** Guus has left the room
[12:33:57] *** Alex has joined the room
[12:33:58] *** Martin shows as "online"
[12:34:12] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:34:48] *** Tobias has joined the room
[12:36:58] *** Guus shows as "online"
[12:37:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:37:51] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:47:14] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:47:20] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:47:23] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:47:24] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:47:59] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:49:21] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[12:49:30] *** ralphm has left the room
[12:50:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:53:52] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[12:55:45] *** hannes has joined the room
[12:56:04] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:56:16] *** Martin shows as "online"
[12:56:39] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[12:58:51] *** @Alacer has left the room
[12:58:52] *** waqas has left the room
[12:58:54] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[12:59:22] *** waqas has joined the room
[13:01:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:01:12] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[13:01:19] *** matlag has joined the room
[13:02:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:02:03] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[13:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:02:55] *** tux shows as "online"
[13:03:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:03:09] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[13:09:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:10:04] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[13:10:39] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:15:33] *** bra shows as "online"
[13:16:12] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:17:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:23:09] *** lumi has left the room
[13:23:30] *** Kev shows as "away"
[13:23:34] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[13:23:38] *** Alex shows as "online"
[13:24:05] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:24:53] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:24:55] *** daniel has left the room
[13:25:02] *** daniel shows as "online"
[13:26:16] *** daniel has left the room
[13:26:24] *** daniel shows as "online"
[13:29:53] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:30:05] *** blabla shows as "online"
[13:30:25] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:32:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:33:07] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:33:09] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[13:33:38] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[13:33:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:34:00] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[13:34:13] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[13:34:14] *** Guus has left the room
[13:38:36] *** waqas has left the room
[13:39:53] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[13:40:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:41:18] *** daniel has left the room
[13:41:26] *** daniel shows as "online"
[13:43:23] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:44:32] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:46:04] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:46:25] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:47:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:51:42] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[13:52:42] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:53:36] *** Alex shows as "online"
[13:54:32] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:55:21] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:58:36] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:59:07] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[13:59:07] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:59:18] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:59:28] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[13:59:44] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:02:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:02:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:04:10] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:04:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:04:26] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[14:05:36] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[14:06:55] *** Kev has left the room
[14:07:11] *** intosi shows as "online"
[14:07:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:07:27] *** matlag has left the room
[14:07:49] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:07:53] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:08:03] *** intosi shows as "online"
[14:08:06] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:08:20] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:09:40] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:11:09] *** Alex has left the room
[14:14:30] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:17:16] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:17:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:19:12] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[14:19:22] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:19:25] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:26:16] *** waqas has joined the room
[14:26:17] *** waqas has left the room
[14:26:52] *** waqas has joined the room
[14:26:53] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[14:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:34:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:34:05] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[14:34:06] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:34:16] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[14:40:39] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[14:41:41] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:42:04] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[14:42:20] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:42:22] *** zinid has left the room
[14:42:24] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:44:01] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[14:44:39] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:47:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:47:27] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:47:31] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:48:41] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[14:53:57] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:54:22] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:54:42] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:54:42] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[14:55:06] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:55:42] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[14:56:20] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[15:00:38] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:00:43] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:00:43] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[15:01:11] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:02:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:02:22] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:04:06] *** tux has left the room
[15:04:06] *** tux shows as "online"
[15:04:14] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:04:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:04:35] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[15:04:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:04:54] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[15:05:41] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:05:41] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:06:50] *** Alex has joined the room
[15:06:53] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:07:37] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:10:22] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[15:10:46] *** waqas has left the room
[15:12:22] *** hannes has joined the room
[15:13:13] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:13:19] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:13:54] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[15:16:26] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:16:52] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:17:07] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:17:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:17:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:18:22] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:18:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[15:20:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:20:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:24:08] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:24:24] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:24:24] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[15:25:50] <Ge0rG> > And federation is possible over XMPP with Signal: https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/
Heh. I'm pretty sure that link conveys the absolute opposite of the stated message.
[15:26:13] <Zash> Wait what
[15:26:24] <Ge0rG> From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16127570
[15:26:27] <Zash> XMPP over Signal?? Why would you even
[15:27:44] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[15:30:36] <daniel> I by the love how their method for 'private contact discovery' is basically we just send everything to an Intel black box because Intel knows their shit, right
[15:31:13] <daniel> But that's unrelated to random guy on HN not knowing the fuck he is talking about
[15:31:32] <Ge0rG> Yeah.
[15:32:05] *** blabla has left the room
[15:32:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:32:42] <Ge0rG> Recently I had some time on my hands and read through moxie's old stories, about train riding through the US and home squatting. And that's so absolutely different from the "stop calling your product like our product" moxie, it's hard to grasp
[15:32:56] <Ge0rG> The ones under https://moxie.org/stories.html
[15:33:08] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:34:26] <Zash> "This is your brain. This is your brain on capitalism."
[15:35:13] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:35:13] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:35:14] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[15:35:18] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:35:26] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:35:34] <daniel> Isn't there one where he was almost raped while hitch hiking or something?
[15:35:36] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:35:38] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[15:35:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:35:41] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:35:48] <daniel> I think I read those stories some years ago as well
[15:36:10] <Ge0rG> daniel: yeah, and he almost died while sailing. And some others.
[15:40:21] *** ralphm has left the room
[15:42:54] *** ralphm has joined the room
[15:45:38] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:45:42] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:47:26] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:47:32] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:50:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:50:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:53:10] *** SamWhited has left the room
[15:53:53] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:55:20] *** intosi shows as "online"
[15:57:08] *** Alex has left the room
[16:02:21] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:02:26] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[16:02:33] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:02:45] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[16:05:41] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:05:41] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:05:45] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:10:04] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[16:10:42] <moparisthebest> zinid: ah excellent (about ejabberd config pointer)
[16:10:55] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[16:11:18] <moparisthebest> On a related note, does ejabberd TLS support SNI for cert selection?
[16:13:30] <Holger> moparisthebest: Sure, zinid added that ages ago.
[16:13:39] <Holger> (Last month IIRC.)
[16:13:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:14:20] <moparisthebest> Nice
[16:15:05] <Zash> Model changes :/
[16:17:21] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:17:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:18:22] <moparisthebest> SNI is shockingly absent outside https it seems, I had to add it to 2 IRC clients and K-9 mail on Android when I started this whole multiplexing business
[16:18:50] <moparisthebest> It's been around for what 14 years at this point?
[16:19:22] <Zash> Does anything but HTTPS actually need it?
[16:19:39] <Holger> IRC has no STARTTLS I guess :-)
[16:19:50] <Holger> But yes mail doesn't need it.
[16:20:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:20:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:20:45] <Zash> For weird reasons tho
[16:20:46] <moparisthebest> everything that uses TLS really
[16:21:02] <moparisthebest> imap and smtp over TLS need it
[16:21:30] <moparisthebest> not STARTTLS, but TLS that is
[16:21:34] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:21:38] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:21:44] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[16:23:10] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:23:18] *** lskdjf has left the room
[16:23:19] <moparisthebest> the funny thing is, as IPv4 gets harder and harder to get, SNI will become more and more needed by everything
[16:23:22] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[16:23:47] <moparisthebest> and then as IPv4 is replaced by IPv6, SNI will no longer be needed at all essentially 🙂
[16:25:43] <Holger> moparisthebest: Sure if you don't use the alternative solution available for email, then you need it :-)
[16:26:15] <moparisthebest> starttls should just die everywhere
[16:26:22] <Zash> nooooooo
[16:26:26] <moparisthebest> I think there is even such an RFC for all the email protocols right?
[16:26:44] <Zash> Pretty sure all email protocols have starttls
[16:27:26] <Zash> Pretty sure I've never seen SMTP over TLS
[16:27:46] <moparisthebest> all of them have starttls options and direct-tls options, and an old RFC deprecated direct-tls, and a new one I think re-instates it and deprecates starttls
[16:27:56] <moparisthebest> over port 465 is the standard for that Zash
[16:28:08] <moparisthebest> for client submission port over direct tls
[16:28:12] *** Guus has left the room
[16:28:13] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:28:55] <Zash> Never seen or heard about anyone ever using that
[16:30:24] <moparisthebest> yea the standard smtp ports are 25 (for s2s you could say), 587 for submission (starttls), and 465 for smtps (direct tls), 465 pre-dated 587 and then was deprecated and assigned to some protocol no one uses...
[16:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:32:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:32:28] <Holger> Zash: We've been offering SMTPS and IMAPS next to STARTTLS for ages and I've seen many other providers doing so.
[16:32:57] <moparisthebest> found it https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-uta-email-deep/
[16:33:12] <moparisthebest> Cleartext Considered Obsolete: Use of TLS for Email Submission and Access
[16:33:20] <moparisthebest> ie starttls must die
[16:33:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:34:15] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:35:11] <moparisthebest> on an XMPP related note, they chose the terminology 'Implicit TLS' vs what we chose of 'Direct TLS' so it might make sense to update 368 that way
[16:35:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:35:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:35:57] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:35:59] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[16:36:09] <mathieui> yay, finally got a vacation to attend the summit
[16:36:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:37:11] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[16:37:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:37:25] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[16:37:58] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:38:07] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[16:39:24] <moparisthebest> ha they chose _submissions._tcp vs my initial preference of _submission._tls too
[16:39:30] <Ge0rG> Anyone seen stpeter recently?
[16:39:48] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: is the last "s" for "secure" or for plural?
[16:40:22] <moparisthebest> same as xmpps, secure
[16:40:32] <moparisthebest> or ssl ? 😛
[16:40:53] <Ge0rG> ss-what?
[16:41:32] *** Guus has left the room
[16:42:05] <moparisthebest> it's not like anyone is going to change https to httpt
[16:42:34] <Ge0rG> did you mean: htttp? :P
[16:42:49] <Zash> htls://
[16:44:28] <moparisthebest> hpkp:// where every site has a pinned public key? now that's something I could get behind
[16:44:59] <Zash> ipfs?
[16:45:11] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: and the host part is replaced by the key fingerprint. key fingerprint dot onion.
[16:45:37] <moparisthebest> more like cjdns
[16:46:09] *** marc has left the room
[16:46:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:46:34] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:46:51] *** marc has left the room
[16:50:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:50:41] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:52:18] *** daniel has left the room
[16:52:27] *** daniel shows as "online"
[16:54:27] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:54:29] *** zinid shows as "online"
[17:00:42] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:00:49] *** marc has joined the room
[17:01:14] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:02:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:04:03] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[17:05:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:05:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:07:55] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:07:56] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[17:08:26] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:08:33] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[17:11:25] *** daniel has left the room
[17:11:33] *** daniel shows as "online"
[17:11:57] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:12:22] *** Martin shows as "online"
[17:12:26] *** ralphm has left the room
[17:12:34] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:12:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:13:33] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[17:14:52] *** pep. has left the room
[17:14:53] *** daniel has left the room
[17:15:06] *** daniel shows as "online"
[17:16:34] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:16:38] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:16:44] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[17:17:19] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[17:18:59] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:19:13] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:19:25] *** Martin shows as "online"
[17:24:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:24:29] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:27:32] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:27:37] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:29:01] *** Martin has left the room
[17:32:13] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:32:14] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:33:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:33:02] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[17:35:04] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[17:35:05] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[17:35:20] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:35:58] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:37:15] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[17:39:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:39:29] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:40:32] *** jjrh has left the room
[17:40:35] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[17:42:11] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:42:33] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:43:59] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:44:01] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[17:44:19] *** matlag has joined the room
[17:46:00] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:46:05] *** marc has left the room
[17:47:03] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:48:07] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:48:13] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:49:27] *** zinid has left the room
[17:50:46] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:50:57] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:54:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:54:29] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:55:58] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:57:04] *** jere has joined the room
[18:00:39] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:00:51] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:01:47] *** ralphm has left the room
[18:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:03:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:03:36] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:05:56] *** ralphm has joined the room
[18:07:08] *** jjrh has left the room
[18:07:53] *** tux shows as "online"
[18:08:16] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[18:11:13] *** Guus has left the room
[18:11:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:11:49] *** jjrh has left the room
[18:11:52] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[18:12:40] *** jjrh has left the room
[18:12:43] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[18:12:44] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:12:45] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:12:47] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:12:56] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:14:59] *** pep. shows as "online"
[18:16:36] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:16:39] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:17:45] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[18:19:38] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[18:19:40] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[18:19:41] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[18:20:58] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[18:21:00] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[18:23:32] *** Guus has left the room
[18:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:32:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:32:45] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:34:59] *** tux shows as "online"
[18:36:09] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[18:41:03] *** jabberatdemo has joined the room
[18:43:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:43:12] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:43:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:44:00] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:45:04] *** jabberatdemo has left the room
[18:45:38] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:45:45] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:48:58] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:48:58] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:51:51] *** jere has left the room
[18:51:56] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[18:51:58] *** jere has joined the room
[18:52:47] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[18:52:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:53:01] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:58:43] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:58:43] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[18:58:44] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[18:59:00] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[19:00:20] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:00:22] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:00:27] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:00:59] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:05:20] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:05:22] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:05:51] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[19:06:54] *** hannes has left the room
[19:07:05] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:11:11] *** ralphm has joined the room
[19:11:49] *** winfried has joined the room
[19:12:53] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[19:12:57] *** marc has joined the room
[19:14:21] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:16:19] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:19:27] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[19:20:03] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:20:26] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:20:33] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:21:30] *** ralphm has joined the room
[19:25:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:31:06] *** jonasw has left the room
[19:31:44] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:32:57] *** nyco has left the room
[19:33:15] *** nyco shows as "online"
[19:35:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:35:40] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[19:43:52] *** lumi has joined the room
[19:45:26] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:45:29] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:49:49] *** marc has left the room
[19:49:52] *** anurodhp has joined the room
[19:50:01] *** marc has joined the room
[19:52:10] *** Guus has left the room
[19:52:11] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:52:52] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[19:52:57] *** ralphm has joined the room
[19:55:03] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:55:23] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:55:23] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:59:32] *** Guus has left the room
[20:02:14] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[20:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:04:48] *** suzyo has joined the room
[20:05:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:05:54] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[20:06:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:06:41] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[20:08:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:08:10] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[20:09:16] *** tux shows as "online"
[20:10:24] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:10:25] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:10:59] *** ralphm has joined the room
[20:11:41] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:13:07] *** ralphm has joined the room
[20:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:22:22] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[20:22:23] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[20:22:32] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:23:50] *** lskdjf has left the room
[20:23:51] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[20:24:04] *** ralphm has joined the room
[20:26:30] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[20:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:37:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:37:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:45:44] *** Kev shows as "online"
[20:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:48:23] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:48:31] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:49:31] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[20:51:09] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:51:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[20:53:44] *** ralphm has joined the room
[20:56:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:56:42] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:57:04] *** Kev shows as "online"
[21:00:42] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[21:00:43] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[21:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:02:35] *** zinid has left the room
[21:02:40] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[21:04:03] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[21:04:03] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[21:06:43] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[21:06:44] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[21:08:38] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:08:39] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[21:09:28] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[21:10:28] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:10:30] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:12:05] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:12:17] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[21:12:21] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[21:12:28] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:13:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:13:51] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:14:11] *** ralphm has joined the room
[21:14:30] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:16:49] *** zinid shows as "online"
[21:16:52] *** daniel has left the room
[21:17:00] *** daniel shows as "online"
[21:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:18:27] *** lskdjf has left the room
[21:18:28] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:20:51] *** lskdjf has left the room
[21:21:20] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:22:18] *** ralphm has left the room
[21:24:50] *** ralphm has joined the room
[21:25:42] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:26:47] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:26:48] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[21:27:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:27:52] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[21:27:53] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[21:29:06] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[21:29:06] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[21:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:32:54] *** waqas has joined the room
[21:32:54] *** waqas has left the room
[21:32:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:32:59] *** Kev shows as "online"
[21:33:25] *** waqas has joined the room
[21:36:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:36:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:36:40] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[21:38:26] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:42:08] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:42:09] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:53:23] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[21:54:12] *** goffi has left the room
[21:54:47] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[21:56:13] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:56:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:57:08] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:57:20] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[21:57:38] *** lskdjf has left the room
[21:57:39] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[22:01:35] *** lskdjf has left the room
[22:01:36] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[22:01:47] *** daniel has left the room
[22:02:27] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:02:29] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:04:16] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:04:17] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[22:05:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:05:08] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[22:05:51] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[22:08:24] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:08:24] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[22:09:18] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:09:46] *** Guus has left the room
[22:10:10] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
[22:10:59] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[22:11:10] *** lumi has left the room
[22:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:18:26] <Link Mauve> “17:33:12 moparisthebest> Cleartext Considered Obsolete: Use of TLS for Email Submission and Access
17:33:20 moparisthebest> ie starttls must die”, you’ve said that a few times already, but that’s plain wrong, there is nothing more plaintext in StartTLS than in legacy TLS in XMPP.
[22:25:10] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:25:14] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:26:15] *** winfried has left the room
[22:28:28] *** winfried has joined the room
[22:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:33:51] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:33:52] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[22:37:12] *** lskdjf has left the room
[22:41:32] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:41:36] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:42:39] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:42:39] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[22:43:17] *** ralphm has joined the room
[22:43:28] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:43:29] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[22:43:54] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:44:25] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:44:26] <moparisthebest> Link Mauve: but then why keep it
[22:45:27] <Link Mauve> Because a huge lot of software and deployments support it, and because there is no downside.
[22:46:04] <Link Mauve> There is a downside to the change though.
[22:46:11] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:46:36] <Zash> Changing security stuff for what amounts to a small round trip optimization is kinda scary.
[22:46:52] <Zash> And the thing about getting through firewalls will just further that arms race
[22:46:55] <moparisthebest> Way more software supports direct TLS
[22:47:15] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:47:16] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[22:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:47:30] <Zash> More popular != better
[22:47:52] <moparisthebest> But in this case it does
[22:48:11] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:48:12] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[22:49:35] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:50:39] <Link Mauve> moparisthebest, I just had a look at our server, we have a 1:10 ratio of users of legacy TLS vs. StartTLS.
[22:50:49] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:51:18] <moparisthebest> Link Mauve: do you have xep368 DNS records, and what preference order
[22:51:35] <Link Mauve> Yes, and same as the normal one.
[22:52:13] <moparisthebest> Wait same? What is the weight of each then
[22:52:49] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[22:52:51] <Link Mauve> Ah no, 8 0 for _xmpp-client and 10 0 for _xmpps-client.
[22:53:00] <Link Mauve> I remembered wrong.
[22:53:20] <moparisthebest> Ah ok well that's why then
[22:53:25] <Link Mauve> You can dig _xmpps?-client._tcp.jabberfr.org.
[22:53:36] <moparisthebest> You should test with them switched
[22:55:10] <Link Mauve> But why? I thought the only reason to have those was to bypass firewalls that intercept the plain text version and only allow TLS-looking ones.
[22:55:39] <Link Mauve> If a client fails to connect in StartTLS, but supports legacy TLS, it will just check again once the connection failed.
[22:55:51] <Zash> I thought the primary reason was to get through corporate firewalls that only allow http/https
[22:55:57] <Link Mauve> Yeah.
[22:56:13] <Link Mauve> That’s the only reason we have legacy TLS in the first place.
[22:56:32] <Link Mauve> We also have XEP-0156 deployed, which is another big one for those.
[22:58:41] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:02:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:02:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:02:38] <moparisthebest> Isn't 368 way easier and more efficient than 156
[23:02:57] <moparisthebest> If getting around firewalls is your goal that is
[23:03:18] <Link Mauve> Until your firewall starts blocking anything which doesn’t announce it is HTTP.
[23:03:52] <moparisthebest> Bottom line though if xmpp was being designed today do you doubt it would only support direct TLS?
[23:03:58] <Link Mauve> Because 0156 describes how to use this very HTTP everyone loves so much.
[23:03:59] <Zash> Weren't you the one who said "we'll still have websockets"?
[23:04:08] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:04:35] <Link Mauve> moparisthebest, that doesn’t matter, it has been invented twenty years ago, you can’t erase that.
[23:04:57] <moparisthebest> But you can move towards the ideal situation
[23:05:05] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:05:13] <Link Mauve> It’s not more ideal than the rest.
[23:05:22] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:05:31] <moparisthebest> If you are redesigning other parts might as well improve it all
[23:06:15] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:06:17] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[23:06:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:06:57] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[23:07:21] *** daniel has left the room
[23:07:32] *** daniel has joined the room
[23:07:48] <Zash> I don't see how moving host and service multiplexing around the layers is an improvement.
[23:07:49] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:07:57] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:08:11] <moparisthebest> Link Mauve: wait you said 10% of your users are using the xep368 srv record? That seems huge if it's a lower priority
[23:08:39] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:08:57] <Zash> Link Mauve: Is it set up so you can detect connections that ignored or failed to get SRV records?
[23:09:10] <Zash> Like yax.im is, iirc.
[23:09:11] <Link Mauve> Zash, yes.
[23:09:26] <Zash> And, iirc, also produces depressing numbers.
[23:10:17] <Zash> Like how 90% of all users on a thing I used to run were using DIGEST-MD5 and the rest were using PLAIN
[23:10:52] <moparisthebest> That seems like a huge number of users that otherwise wouldn't be able to connect
[23:11:03] <edhelas> so looks like Movim is having a "okay" working solution to do video-conferencing with pure WebRTC and Jingle :)
[23:11:16] <moparisthebest> Also considering only a couple clients support it
[23:11:34] <Link Mauve> moparisthebest, or plain ignore the settings and connect to 5223 anyway.
[23:11:53] <Zash> or got SRV sorting wrong
[23:12:35] <la|r|ma> edhelas, did you try out cross-browser?
[23:12:36] <moparisthebest> Conversations does it right mixing and all, it would connect to 5222 if it could
[23:12:48] <edhelas> yup, working between chrome and firefox
[23:13:01] <edhelas> disabled on mobile for now
[23:13:18] <moparisthebest> edhelas: would be great to get interop working with conversations too :)
[23:13:40] <edhelas> ping daniel :3
[23:13:43] <la|r|ma> edhelas: what about safari? (I worked with WebRTC for another project and it sucks to get it cross-browser)
[23:13:48] <moparisthebest> Did that xep work as is or did you find rough edges?
[23:13:54] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Swift 4.0 RC5"
[23:13:55] <edhelas> I don't know if there's a WebRTC implementation in Java for Android
[23:14:10] <edhelas> la|r|ma don't know, don't have Macs at home :D
[23:14:24] <la|r|ma> you can use chromes libwebrtc on android
[23:14:26] <moparisthebest> edhelas: actually a conversations fork has webrtc support
[23:14:32] <edhelas> moparisthebest well I basically had everything in the XEPs to do the conversion between SDP and Jingle
[23:14:37] <moparisthebest> Just signaling doesn't use xmpp
[23:14:56] <edhelas> https://github.com/movim/movim/blob/master/lib/SDPtoJingle.php
[23:15:15] <moparisthebest> So take some code from there, implement signaling part with jingle, done
[23:15:38] <la|r|ma> moparisthebest, which fork?
[23:16:10] <moparisthebest> la|r|ma: uuuhhhhh author responded in that issue
[23:16:26] <moparisthebest> Spreedbox or something?
[23:16:36] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:17:00] <Link Mauve> edhelas, I’d really like to interoperate between the desktop and the web, I just sent an email to the Jitsi guys about that.
[23:17:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:17:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:18:01] <edhelas> sure, would love to try interroperability with Jitsi, and why not Dino one day :)
[23:19:31] <edhelas> moparisthebest I've also anotated the XEP numbers in the file :)
[23:20:10] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:20:14] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:20:40] <la|r|ma> I build a PoC for Jingle with Dino half a year back (only basic unencrypted audio via ice-udp)
[23:21:52] <edhelas> I'm really impatient to show all those nice features interroperable between Dino, Conversations, Movim and others :)
[23:22:09] <edhelas> SàT also for the social part
[23:30:41] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[23:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:32:47] *** marc has left the room
[23:34:39] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:34:43] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:36:25] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:36:27] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:36:29] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:36:31] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:36:57] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:37:00] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:37:44] <moparisthebest> Would that part of movim work with prosody?
[23:37:50] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:37:55] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:38:00] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[23:38:17] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:38:21] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:38:53] <edhelas> eheh, nothing relies on the servers :D
[23:38:58] <edhelas> it's a pure client implementation
[23:39:23] <edhelas> well I still have to implement TURN/STUN if the XMPP server offers it
[23:47:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:47:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:48:48] *** Zash has left the room
[23:49:32] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:49:35] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:50:00] <moparisthebest> edhelas: will I meant movim in general
[23:50:14] <edhelas> not yet
[23:50:20] <edhelas> still waiting for proper pubsub support
[23:50:20] <moparisthebest> I know it needs pep stuff prosody doesn't have yet
[23:50:40] <moparisthebest> But does plain chat and that webrtc stuff work
[23:50:53] <edhelas> yup
[23:51:25] <moparisthebest> I'll have to try it :)
[23:53:54] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:54:14] *** jjrh shows as "online"