Wednesday, January 17, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
January
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
       
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:02:32] *** peter shows as "online"
[00:03:32] *** marc has left the room
[00:03:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[00:06:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:11:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[00:11:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:12:48] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[00:15:02] *** peter shows as "online"
[00:15:42] *** peter has left the room
[00:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:17:42] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:17:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:17:55] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:18:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:21:12] *** winfried shows as "online"
[00:21:21] *** winfried has left the room
[00:23:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[00:23:14] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[00:27:15] *** jubalh has joined the room
[00:31:14] *** pep. has left the room
[00:31:40] *** pep. shows as "online"
[00:32:11] *** valo has left the room
[00:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:33:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[00:44:39] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[00:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[00:48:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:48:13] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:48:15] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:48:26] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:49:41] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[00:51:25] *** andrey.g has left the room
[00:51:50] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[00:53:40] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[00:55:40] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[00:56:34] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[00:58:40] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[00:59:34] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[00:59:57] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:00:52] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:02:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[01:04:00] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:04:51] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:09:37] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:09:57] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[01:10:45] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:12:06] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[01:14:22] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[01:15:41] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:16:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[01:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[01:17:38] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:18:06] *** Zash has left the room
[01:18:28] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:22:34] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:23:31] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:25:50] *** hannes has left the room
[01:25:51] *** hannes has joined the room
[01:25:55] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:26:46] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:30:32] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:31:20] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[01:36:24] *** matlag shows as "online"
[01:37:42] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:38:29] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[01:38:54] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:41:46] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[01:41:58] *** peter has joined the room
[01:42:37] *** jjrh has left the room
[01:42:42] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[01:43:15] *** jjrh has left the room
[01:43:28] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[01:45:42] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:45:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[01:45:45] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:45:55] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[01:45:58] <moparisthebest> Zash, jonasw: you thought xmpp over TLS on https port was bad https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-doh-dns-over-https-02
[01:46:52] <moparisthebest> How about take udp DNS request, bas64 it and send it over https, then get answer back the same way :)
[01:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:04:10] *** efrit has joined the room
[02:08:55] *** Tobias has joined the room
[02:16:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:16:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[02:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:17:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:19:04] *** Zash shows as "online"
[02:20:06] <Zash> moparisthebest: Was that the one with or without JSON?
[02:20:34] <moparisthebest> Zash: without at least, so that's better
[02:22:55] *** bra shows as "online"
[02:23:38] *** matlag shows as "away" and his status message is " (Absent(e) car inactif depuis plus de 5 min)"
[02:25:11] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[02:28:50] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:28:53] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:30:46] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:30:59] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:32:21] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:32:22] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:33:38] *** matlag shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Non disponible car inactif depuis plus de 15 min)"
[02:34:39] *** zinid has left the room
[02:35:10] *** @Alacer has left the room
[02:36:19] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[02:38:10] *** zinid has joined the room
[02:45:29] *** efrit has left the room
[02:45:30] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[02:46:32] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:46:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[02:46:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:46:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[02:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[02:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[02:54:12] *** @Alacer has left the room
[03:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:03:27] *** uc has joined the room
[03:04:40] *** matlag shows as "online"
[03:05:30] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:09:29] *** matlag has left the room
[03:17:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:17:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[03:17:06] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:17:16] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[03:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:20:11] *** peter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[03:23:30] *** peter shows as "online"
[03:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:36:27] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[03:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[03:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[03:47:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:47:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[03:47:46] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:47:55] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[03:48:26] *** peter has left the room
[04:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:19:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:19:09] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[04:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[04:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[04:48:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:48:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[04:48:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:48:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[05:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:17:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:19:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:19:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[05:19:06] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:19:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[05:23:24] *** Guus has left the room
[05:23:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:23:31] *** suzyo has joined the room
[05:23:49] *** Guus has left the room
[05:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:32:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:32:36] *** Guus has left the room
[05:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[05:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:49:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:49:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[05:49:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[05:49:56] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[05:57:58] <zinid> DNS over HTTP, finally
[05:59:23] <zinid> So we finally have everything over http on a single port and single tasking OS (in the phone)
[05:59:35] <zinid> IT is progressing
[06:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:02:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:05:53] *** tux has left the room
[06:05:55] *** tux has joined the room
[06:17:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:21:21] *** zinid shows as "online"
[06:22:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:22:30] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:22:42] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:22:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:23:23] *** valo has joined the room
[06:24:10] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:24:11] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:24:14] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:24:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:35:49] *** zinid has left the room
[06:36:13] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[06:46:58] *** Tobias has left the room
[06:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[06:47:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[06:49:09] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[06:49:30] *** Tobias has joined the room
[06:51:55] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[06:53:29] *** jonasw has left the room
[06:54:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:54:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:54:30] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:54:32] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:54:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:54:48] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[06:54:51] *** ralphm has left the room
[06:56:30] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:56:31] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:56:37] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:56:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:01:01] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Trains Home"
[07:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:02:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:09:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[07:09:31] *** ralphm has joined the room
[07:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:18:14] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[07:18:16] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[07:18:17] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[07:19:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[07:19:45] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Trains Home"
[07:23:52] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Trains Home"
[07:27:36] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:30:25] *** remko has joined the room
[07:30:25] *** remko shows as "online"
[07:31:47] *** Guus has joined the room
[07:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:33:54] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[07:46:09] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:46:53] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[07:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[07:52:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:59:10] *** ralphm has left the room
[08:01:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:02:17] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:03:31] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[08:04:06] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:04:45] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[08:06:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:06:50] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:06:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:06:54] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:07:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:08:58] *** Martin has joined the room
[08:09:41] *** ralphm has left the room
[08:13:37] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:14:19] *** tux has joined the room
[08:14:36] *** daniel shows as "online"
[08:14:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:19:41] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:19:41] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:23:57] *** ralphm has left the room
[08:23:59] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:24:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:27:55] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[08:27:55] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:29:38] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:29:38] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:30:00] *** lumi has joined the room
[08:30:39] *** ralphm has left the room
[08:31:46] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:31:51] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:32:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:33:09] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:33:31] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[08:35:55] *** tux has joined the room
[08:37:44] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:37:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:37:52] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:37:56] *** goffi has joined the room
[08:40:52] *** ralphm has left the room
[08:44:01] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:44:23] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:44:54] *** remko shows as "away"
[08:46:38] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[08:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[08:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[08:47:54] *** tux has left the room
[08:48:06] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[08:49:02] *** remko shows as "online"
[08:49:31] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:49:49] *** Kev has joined the room
[08:49:50] *** Kev shows as "online"
[08:49:51] *** tux has joined the room
[08:50:19] *** intosi has joined the room
[08:58:13] <pep.> > SamWhited> pluging in a 4k monitor everything on it is tiny, if I make it bigger when I unplug it the bar eats half my screen
That's an X issue I believe
[08:59:53] <Ge0rG> zinid: but now we have ALPN to multiplex
[09:00:45] *** remko shows as "away"
[09:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:02:23] *** intosi has left the room
[09:02:24] *** intosi has joined the room
[09:02:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:03:35] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:03:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:03:46] *** Kev shows as "online"
[09:06:03] *** emodemo has joined the room
[09:08:29] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:08:44] *** Martin shows as "online"
[09:08:55] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:09:01] *** remko shows as "online"
[09:10:41] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[09:13:47] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:13:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:13:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:13:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:14:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:15:09] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[09:16:22] *** intosi has left the room
[09:16:22] *** intosi has joined the room
[09:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:17:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:19:04] *** remko shows as "away"
[09:19:22] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[09:21:34] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:21:47] *** Martin shows as "online"
[09:22:06] <Dave Cridland> Ge0rG, Ports in userspace.
[09:22:51] <jonasw> \o/
[09:23:01] <jonasw> it’s only a matter of time until ALPN is handled by thekernel
[09:23:49] <daniel> now i'm wondering if iptables can filter based on alpn
[09:23:51] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:24:18] *** lumi shows as "online"
[09:24:33] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:24:55] <Ge0rG> Dave Cridland: I might not make it in time for the Council meeting today. I need to relocate 500km between now and 5PM, and my arrival depends on traffic conditions.
[09:25:17] <Ge0rG> s/5PM/1600Z/
[09:26:00] <Ge0rG> But I'll try hard because I want some qualified feedback on user-invite-protoXEP (for which I'm obviously +1)
[09:26:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:27:40] <Ge0rG> daniel: you might be able to construct something with BPF and marks.
[09:27:45] *** remko shows as "online"
[09:28:23] <Ge0rG> but kernels are getting less important every day, with the dockerization of our IT infrastructure
[09:28:41] <Ge0rG> you don't need a kernel in SaaS :P
[09:30:01] <jonasw> I’d be happy if ip6tables were able to filter on ipv6 neighbour discovery
[09:30:03] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[09:30:13] <jonasw> I’d be happy if ip6tables were able to filter on ipv6 neighbour discovery fields, like it can for arp
[09:32:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:32:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:34:18] *** Kev shows as "away"
[09:36:45] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[09:39:50] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:42:14] *** zinid shows as "online"
[09:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[09:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:49:50] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:50:11] *** tux shows as "away"
[09:53:24] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[09:53:48] *** Kev shows as "online"
[09:53:54] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[09:53:57] *** winfried shows as "online"
[09:54:10] *** intosi shows as "online"
[09:56:59] <Kev> Yay. Thon rejected my booking because the deadline of the 12th had passed. *facepalm*
[09:57:26] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[09:59:21] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[09:59:43] *** zinid has left the room
[10:00:12] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[10:00:42] *** lumi shows as "online"
[10:00:53] <SouL> Oh, really? :(
[10:02:15] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:02:51] <Kev> Yep.
[10:03:07] <Kev> They've got about a 24hour roundtrip time on emails, so this can only go well for me.
[10:07:29] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[10:08:17] *** winfried shows as "online"
[10:11:44] <Kev> And two of my team's went through fine, when we sent the forms at the same time. Oh, Thon, we love you.
[10:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:17:22] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:17:32] *** intosi shows as "online"
[10:18:42] <intosi> This is the point where I would give them a ring, really.
[10:19:02] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[10:20:57] *** Syndace has left the room
[10:21:02] *** Syndace has joined the room
[10:21:42] *** winfried shows as "online"
[10:21:58] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:26:22] *** uc has joined the room
[10:27:20] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:29:25] *** Alex has joined the room
[10:30:48] *** jubalh has joined the room
[10:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:32:31] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:34:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:34:28] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[10:34:32] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:35:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[10:42:31] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[10:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[10:47:18] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[10:48:11] *** winfried has joined the room
[10:48:59] *** winfried shows as "online"
[10:51:15] *** intosi shows as "online"
[10:53:30] *** blabla shows as "online"
[10:53:48] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:55:04] *** blabla shows as "online"
[10:56:18] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:56:47] *** blabla has left the room
[10:56:51] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[10:56:54] *** intosi shows as "online"
[10:57:36] *** blabla shows as "online"
[11:00:30] *** blabla has left the room
[11:00:39] *** blabla shows as "online"
[11:01:47] *** blabla has left the room
[11:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:02:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:02:40] *** blabla has left the room
[11:02:46] *** blabla has joined the room
[11:02:53] *** blabla has left the room
[11:03:12] *** blabla has joined the room
[11:03:49] *** blabla shows as "online"
[11:03:53] *** ralphm has left the room
[11:04:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:04:27] *** blabla has left the room
[11:06:43] *** blabla shows as "online"
[11:11:07] *** blabla has left the room
[11:11:08] *** blabla has left the room
[11:11:36] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[11:11:50] *** blabla has joined the room
[11:13:14] *** blabla has left the room
[11:13:17] *** blabla has joined the room
[11:17:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:17:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:19:25] *** blabla has left the room
[11:20:01] *** blabla has joined the room
[11:20:04] *** blabla shows as "online"
[11:25:02] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:28:43] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:30:12] <pep.> All we need is IP over http right.
[11:30:35] <pep.> Apparently there is such a thing already. "Microsoft used to discourage IP-HTTPS use because it was slow." duh
[11:30:43] *** remko shows as "away"
[11:31:56] <edhelas> can't wait for XMPP over HTTP
[11:31:57] <edhelas> wait…
[11:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:34:48] *** uc has left the room
[11:35:05] *** uc has joined the room
[11:35:58] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:39:32] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:43:49] *** uc has joined the room
[11:43:56] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:45:42] *** winfried shows as "online"
[11:47:00] *** uc has joined the room
[11:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[11:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:47:42] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[11:48:36] *** Guus has left the room
[11:48:37] *** Guus has joined the room
[11:49:08] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:49:30] *** uc has joined the room
[11:50:37] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[11:51:55] *** uc has joined the room
[11:52:38] *** Kev shows as "away"
[11:54:30] *** uc has joined the room
[11:54:59] *** winfried has left the room
[11:56:25] *** daniel has left the room
[11:56:30] *** daniel shows as "online"
[11:58:26] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[11:58:31] *** Kev shows as "online"
[11:59:32] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[11:59:36] *** intosi shows as "online"
[12:02:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:02:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:02:36] *** Guus has left the room
[12:03:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:04:19] *** uc has joined the room
[12:05:05] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:05:23] *** remko shows as "online"
[12:06:34] *** daniel has left the room
[12:10:37] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[12:12:42] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:13:59] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[12:14:34] *** intosi shows as "online"
[12:15:18] *** uc has joined the room
[12:15:59] *** Alex has left the room
[12:16:18] *** goffi has left the room
[12:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:17:47] *** Alex has joined the room
[12:18:16] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:18:22] *** winfried shows as "online"
[12:19:39] *** intosi shows as "online"
[12:19:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:20:03] *** Martin shows as "online"
[12:20:05] *** Alex shows as "online"
[12:20:17] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:20:47] *** Martin has left the room
[12:21:42] *** marc has joined the room
[12:23:10] *** marc has left the room
[12:24:29] *** Guus has joined the room
[12:25:36] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[12:31:57] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:32:08] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:33:06] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:37:35] *** jjrh has left the room
[12:37:58] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[12:41:41] *** suzyo has joined the room
[12:42:55] *** zinid shows as "online"
[12:43:00] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:45:18] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:45:40] *** intosi shows as "online"
[12:46:10] <zinid> There is tcp over http, called http2
[12:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[12:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[12:47:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:48:25] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[12:49:44] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:49:47] *** daniel has left the room
[12:49:51] *** daniel shows as "online"
[12:50:11] *** blabla shows as "online"
[12:50:23] *** blabla has left the room
[12:50:24] *** blabla shows as "online"
[12:50:49] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:54:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:57:31] *** daniel has left the room
[13:00:22] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:02:08] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[13:02:12] *** @Alacer has left the room
[13:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:02:18] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[13:02:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:03:11] *** winfried has left the room
[13:03:13] *** winfried shows as "online"
[13:05:03] *** winfried shows as "online"
[13:07:58] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:08:11] *** uc has joined the room
[13:08:16] *** daniel shows as "online"
[13:09:14] *** @Alacer has left the room
[13:09:50] *** tux has left the room
[13:09:53] *** tux shows as "online"
[13:11:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:12:32] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:12:59] *** Alex has left the room
[13:13:17] *** remko shows as "away"
[13:14:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[13:15:04] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:15:09] *** uc has joined the room
[13:16:02] *** xnyhps has left the room
[13:16:32] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:18:00] *** uc has joined the room
[13:20:33] *** Kev shows as "online"
[13:21:02] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[13:21:06] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:21:10] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:21:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:21:50] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:21:55] *** Martin has joined the room
[13:21:57] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[13:22:02] *** Martin shows as "online"
[13:23:49] *** uc has joined the room
[13:26:57] *** Guus has left the room
[13:26:57] *** Guus has joined the room
[13:27:35] *** lskdjf has left the room
[13:27:41] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[13:27:48] *** uc has joined the room
[13:30:11] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:30:25] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:30:26] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:31:00] <Kev> Having now got Thon to honour the block booking rate, they still seem to be silently ripping me off by charging (much) more than the block booking rate anyway.
[13:31:30] *Kev sighs
[13:31:55] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[13:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:32:20] <intosi> :/
[13:35:04] *** uc has joined the room
[13:36:02] *** bra has joined the room
[13:37:08] *** winfried shows as "online"
[13:37:08] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[13:37:33] *** winfried shows as "online"
[13:38:36] *** Guus has left the room
[13:47:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[13:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[13:49:11] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[13:50:27] *** @Alacer has left the room
[13:52:36] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[13:54:21] *** valo has joined the room
[13:54:59] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:56:40] *** intosi has left the room
[14:01:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:02:40] *** uc has left the room
[14:02:54] *** uc has joined the room
[14:07:36] *** remko shows as "online"
[14:07:57] *** Guus has joined the room
[14:08:35] <Guus> Kev: I have written confirmation that Thon extended our block booking rate deadline to the 17th (today)
[14:09:04] *** Guus shows as "online"
[14:09:22] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:09:23] *** Kev shows as "away"
[14:09:35] *** Alex has joined the room
[14:09:38] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:10:10] <Guus> This was offered to us by David Hutsebaut on January 8th, by mail, to me.
[14:10:29] <Guus> I'm also interested in how much they're now charging you.
[14:10:50] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:11:40] *** uc has joined the room
[14:12:32] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[14:13:30] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:15:43] *** winfried shows as "online"
[14:15:46] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[14:15:49] *** Martin has left the room
[14:16:07] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:16:07] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[14:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:17:45] *** Kev shows as "online"
[14:18:10] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:18:17] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[14:19:16] <Kev> Actually, looking at the number they're charging me less for the second night, just much more for the third night, so in the end it only ends up being £20 or so difference. I can live with that.
[14:19:40] *** Kev has left the room
[14:21:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:23:12] *** daniel has left the room
[14:23:15] *** daniel shows as "online"
[14:23:17] *** Anu has joined the room
[14:23:24] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[14:27:39] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:28:13] *** daniel has left the room
[14:28:19] *** daniel shows as "online"
[14:29:16] *** bra shows as "online"
[14:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:33:22] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[14:36:47] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:37:01] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:37:54] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:38:35] *** Martin has joined the room
[14:38:40] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[14:38:44] *** Martin shows as "online"
[14:39:29] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:39:56] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:40:06] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:40:32] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:40:34] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:41:11] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[14:42:58] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[14:43:22] *** @Alacer has left the room
[14:43:25] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[14:45:21] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:47:38] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:47:43] *** daniel has left the room
[14:47:48] *** daniel shows as "online"
[14:52:01] *** winfried shows as "online"
[14:54:23] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:54:38] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[14:55:20] *** @Alacer has left the room
[14:55:24] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[14:59:53] *** Anu shows as "online"
[15:00:01] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[15:00:45] *** Anu has left the room
[15:01:18] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[15:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:02:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:04:25] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:08:13] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:08:16] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:09:52] *** Anu has left the room
[15:10:49] *** Anu has joined the room
[15:12:48] *** zinid has left the room
[15:12:53] *** zinid shows as "online"
[15:13:13] *** Anu has left the room
[15:13:23] *** blabla shows as "online"
[15:14:49] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:17:03] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[15:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:18:54] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[15:19:04] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[15:19:24] *** Guus has left the room
[15:20:43] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:20:45] <Ge0rG> If only somebody would disrupt the hotel business.
[15:20:48] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:20:54] *** zinid has left the room
[15:21:24] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:21:51] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:22:12] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[15:27:34] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:27:36] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[15:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:32:24] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[15:32:37] *** Martin shows as "online"
[15:32:44] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:34:14] *** winfried has left the room
[15:34:16] *** winfried shows as "online"
[15:34:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:35:54] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:37:12] <moparisthebest> what do you want an 'Uber Hotels'
[15:38:46] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: I thought about a web portal where private people offer rooms or flats to random strangers from the Internet, filming them naked.
[15:39:12] <moparisthebest> isn't there already something that does that, uh, airbnb or something?
[15:39:19] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: no way!
[15:41:50] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[15:43:17] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[15:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[15:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:48:26] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:48:37] *** Martin shows as "online"
[15:50:12] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[15:51:16] *** suzyo has joined the room
[15:51:52] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[15:54:16] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[15:55:33] *** Guus has left the room
[15:55:44] *** Guus has joined the room
[15:58:56] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:59:11] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[16:00:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:02:59] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:03:58] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:04:11] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:05:08] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[16:10:36] *** lovetox has joined the room
[16:11:35] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[16:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:19:11] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[16:21:38] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[16:26:01] <jonasw> no, airbnb just gets you spider-infested flats which are half as large as claimed in the ad
[16:28:08] <Ge0rG> jonasw: maybe the difference between sqft and m²?
[16:28:32] <jonasw> nah
[16:28:34] <jonasw> just fraud
[16:28:43] <jonasw> that was pretty clear from the way the photos were and the general state of the flat
[16:28:50] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:29:10] <Ge0rG> But you can rate down the flat!1!
[16:30:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:31:00] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:31:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:31:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:32:11] <jonasw> we complained
[16:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:33:51] *** tux has left the room
[16:34:23] *** Martin has left the room
[16:35:13] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:35:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:36:02] *** ralphm has joined the room
[16:38:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:38:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:38:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:38:33] *** vanitasvitae shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[16:39:43] *** remko shows as "away"
[16:41:45] <Ge0rG> daniel: as the operator of a public server, I don't want a module to expose user avatars to the general public by loading a "compatibility" module.
[16:41:53] <daniel> > I'm not sure we should be messing with vcard anymore, but we can probably discuss afterwards unless this is critical to someones vote and it can't be done on list?
I think there is an argument to be made that vCard will be needed for as long as muc is around
[16:41:55] <Ge0rG> s/a module//
[16:42:22] <Ge0rG> Maybe there are people still using vcard as designed.
[16:42:29] <jonasw> Ge0rG, aren’t user avatars factually already open to the general public when they’re stored as vcard?
[16:42:35] <Ge0rG> jonasw: yes.
[16:42:49] <daniel> I'm not really happy about that either but I can't remove MUC from existence
[16:43:00] <jonasw> could you run a query which tells you how many users have their avatar *only* in PEP?
[16:43:04] <Ge0rG> jonasw: except that most clients will warn you about your vcard being public
[16:43:07] <jonasw> (and how many have their avatar in PEP and vcard?)
[16:43:23] <daniel> > jonasw: except that most clients will warn you about your vcard being public
What clients do?
[16:43:25] <jonasw> I’d like to have numbers on clients which do *not* warn you and only support PEP.
[16:43:31] <jonasw> daniel, conversations? ;-)
[16:43:44] <daniel> jonasw: no
[16:43:48] <Dave Cridland> There is the argument that maybe, while vCard is pretty rubbish, it's also good enough.
[16:43:51] <jonasw> Ge0rG, because I think that clients are simply neglient about warning users about their o+r avatars.
[16:44:03] <Ge0rG> jonasw: that might be true, but doesn't invalidate my argument.
[16:44:04] *SamWhited is temporarily not here, will rejoin discussion shortly hopefully.
[16:44:09] <jonasw> daniel, I remotely recall that the avatar is visible to everyone, but maybe it was just "to your contacts" :)
[16:44:23] <jonasw> Even though, for the record, I *was* surprised to see that my avatar passes through anon MUCs.
[16:44:43] <Ge0rG> I see merit in having a public vcard by opt-in.
[16:45:03] <daniel> jonasw, Conversations had a message saying that pep avatars are only available to contacts. but i don't know a single client that warns you before publishing a vcard avatar
[16:45:20] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[16:45:27] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:45:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:45:58] <pep.> Ge0rG, agreed. I recently cleared my own vcard for that. Avatar is fine-ish
[16:46:01] <jonasw> daniel, ok, it’s been a while since I set conversations up
[16:46:22] <daniel> so as far as I see it the argument is either users expect avatars to be public in that case pep-vcard-conversion is not a problem. OR users expect avatars to be private in which case we need to fix vcard
[16:46:26] <jonasw> so, what do we need vcard avatars for exactly?
[16:46:28] <jonasw> is it only anon MUCs?
[16:46:36] <daniel> jonasw, pretty much
[16:46:38] <jonasw> if so, couldn’t we make MUC implementations handle that case like they handle vcards?
[16:46:41] <Ge0rG> pep.: depends on how you use your avatar. If you just put in some random picture from google images, everything is alright. if you have your photo there... not quite
[16:46:46] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[16:46:46] <daniel> + a little but backwards compat
[16:46:50] <daniel> but mostly muc
[16:46:53] <pep.> Ge0rG, sure
[16:47:01] <pep.> I was talking about mine
[16:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:47:29] <jonasw> like, a generic PEP-through-MUC XEP which specifies how that works (welp, obviously updates won’t get pushed necessarily etc., but how queries are passed through), with a whitelisting approach and suggesting a list of things to allow based on MUC configuration and affiliations of the involved entities
[16:47:56] <jonasw> because going forward we might want to abandon vcard entirely (or finally replace it by vcard4 proper)
[16:47:58] <Ge0rG> pep.: I don't see your avatar.
[16:48:18] <pep.> 153?
[16:49:12] <daniel> fwiw i'm fine with resubmitting the XEP as informal like 'look this is what ejabberd and prosody can do. take it or leave it'
[16:49:41] <Ge0rG> pep.: I'm on a console client.
[16:49:54] <jonasw> I’m fine with the XEP as-is. It has clear security considerations, it can be built upon and whether public operators do this or not is their matter.
[16:49:57] <daniel> but i'd prefer to 'fix' this by putting the kind of access control Ge0rG described in front of vcard
[16:50:06] <pep.> Ge0rG, I'm on the same console client with borked avatar support :P
[16:50:21] <jonasw> daniel, that’d be better but I don’t see that as an requirement
[16:50:32] <daniel> jonasw, not for that XEP, no
[16:50:39] <jonasw> yupp
[16:52:48] <SamWhited> My view is that we should be moving towards a world in which vcard doesn't exist, so we shouldn't modify the historical spec. It's worked "well enough" for years, so why add more stuff that things will have to implement? If the privacy thing is a concern for some clients (with the note that it's never been a concern for any client I've seen, so I don't know why that could change now), people could always do Daniel's hack if they have the pep node set to public and not do it (thereby losing avatars in MUCs) if it's set to private. If you want your avatar to be private, you probably don't want it showing up in MUCs anyways, no?
[16:53:56] <jonasw> SamWhited, I think that the privacy expectations for avatars and the actual privacy delivered by the XMPP network diverge.
[16:54:01] <SouL> The problem I would say is having to choose one avatar (or let's say identity) for everything.
[16:54:02] <daniel> oO(it's really annoying to read long texts in Gajim when you have been mentioned. because gajim makes that into bold text with a low contrast)
[16:54:04] <jonasw> and that clients do not care about this is not a sign that everything is alright
[16:55:59] <Ge0rG> jonasw: historically, XMPP clients don't care about privacy.
[16:56:04] <jonasw> "yay"?
[16:56:20] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: we should be talking about _users'_ privacy expectations, not clients'.
[16:56:20] <jonasw> I mean, it’s fine-ish if you don’t care about MAM things, because you’re supposed to trust your server anyways.
[16:56:27] <jonasw> (or at least, one can argue that it’s "fine-ish")
[16:56:34] <Ge0rG> jonasw: MAM is another messy issue in my eyes.
[16:56:34] <jonasw> but it’s less fine if data gets available to everyone.
[16:56:36] *** intosi has joined the room
[16:56:41] <SamWhited> Ignore that part, it's irrelavant, as usual I shoudln't have mentioned anything extra.
[16:56:59] <SamWhited> The point is "if you want private avatars, they probably shouldn't show up in MUCs, so don't do the vcard thing and now you don't have to make changes to vcards"
[16:57:01] <Ge0rG> jonasw: https://prosody.im/issues/867
[16:57:26] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: the vcard thing is a server-wide module.
[16:57:43] <jonasw> Ge0rG, unless coupled with PEP permissions, which is what SamWhited was saying I think.
[16:57:45] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: so the server admin decides for all users if public avatars are fine
[16:57:46] <SamWhited> Ge0rG: that's an implementation detail; we can tell servers "do serve vcards in MUCs or don't"
[16:57:49] <jonasw> (then the client gets to decide)
[16:58:44] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[16:59:00] *** pep. shows as "online"
[16:59:06] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[16:59:14] <SamWhited> but yes, whether or not they implement the XEP we write is a server admin decision, but there's not much we can do about that. Server operators can share avatars online publically over HTTP for all we know, all we can do is provide guidance.
[16:59:14] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[16:59:22] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: the world is full of implementation details. The XEP does not contain this detail, so it's changing the status quo
[16:59:43] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[16:59:53] <SamWhited> I didn't understand that?
[17:00:18] *** suzyo has joined the room
[17:00:38] <Ge0rG> SamWhited: if we tell server admins "this will make avatars of your users work in MUC" but don't tell them "this will make all user avatars public" we've failed our job
[17:00:55] *** zinid shows as "online"
[17:01:01] <SamWhited> It won't make user avatars public if it says "don't do this if user avatars are private"
[17:02:07] <Ge0rG> it's an interesting related question whether we should apply the same ACL to anonymous MUCs we are in as to our contacts.
[17:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:06:42] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:10:18] *** zinid has left the room
[17:10:58] *** zinid shows as "online"
[17:11:00] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:11:01] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:11:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:11:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:13:07] *** Tobias has left the room
[17:13:19] *** Tobias has joined the room
[17:15:49] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:15:51] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:15:53] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:16:01] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:16:34] *** ralphm has left the room
[17:17:14] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:19:38] *** bear has left the room
[17:19:43] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:21:11] *** tux shows as "online"
[17:21:56] *** bear has joined the room
[17:21:56] *** bear shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:23:43] *** remko shows as "online"
[17:24:59] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:25:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:25:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:25:45] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:25:50] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:26:42] *** intosi has left the room
[17:26:43] *** nyco has left the room
[17:26:54] *** nyco shows as "online"
[17:29:46] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[17:29:49] *** suzyo has joined the room
[17:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:33:07] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:33:16] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:33:17] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:33:19] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:33:49] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[17:33:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:36:54] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[17:37:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:37:22] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:40:07] *** jubalh has left the room
[17:40:36] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[17:40:48] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[17:43:15] *** Kev has joined the room
[17:43:21] *** Kev shows as "away"
[17:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:48:16] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:53:16] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:53:38] *** lumi has joined the room
[17:53:49] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:56:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:56:57] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[17:58:45] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[17:59:11] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[17:59:16] *** bra shows as "online"
[17:59:23] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:59:50] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:59:50] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[18:02:12] *** zinid has left the room
[18:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:02:20] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[18:03:22] *** zinid shows as "online"
[18:03:53] *** Tobias has joined the room
[18:05:33] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:05:34] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:05:43] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:05:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:06:06] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:06:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:08:05] *** uc has joined the room
[18:10:23] *** @Alacer has left the room
[18:10:35] *** remko shows as "away"
[18:10:46] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[18:12:58] *** bra has left the room
[18:13:14] *** bra has joined the room
[18:15:11] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[18:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:19:14] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:19:22] *** daniel has left the room
[18:19:26] *** daniel shows as "online"
[18:21:10] *** admin has joined the room
[18:22:21] <admin> Hi everyone! Can someone please type 123 to comfirm everything is connecting properly and this server works?
[18:23:22] <Ge0rG> 456
[18:23:28] *** Guus has left the room
[18:23:29] *** Guus has joined the room
[18:23:36] *** admin has left the room
[18:25:58] <SouL> Haha
[18:26:05] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[18:27:22] <Ge0rG> a.k.a. "test failed".
[18:29:30] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[18:32:08] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[18:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:34:27] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[18:34:30] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[18:35:14] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:35:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:35:27] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:35:36] *** Guus has left the room
[18:35:38] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:37:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:37:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:37:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[18:38:23] *** SamWhited has left the room
[18:38:24] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[18:39:04] *** ralphm has joined the room
[18:39:07] *** SamWhited has left the room
[18:40:49] *** SamWhited has joined the room
[18:41:05] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[18:41:33] *** SamWhited has left the room
[18:41:37] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[18:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[18:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[18:54:37] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[18:57:58] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[18:58:18] *** bra shows as "online"
[19:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:04:14] *** jubalh has joined the room
[19:12:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:12:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:12:17] *** Lance has joined the room
[19:13:50] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[19:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:22:50] *** lumi has left the room
[19:24:01] *** remko shows as "online"
[19:24:37] *** lumi has joined the room
[19:26:17] *** ralphm has joined the room
[19:28:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:28:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:29:03] *** Guus has joined the room
[19:29:33] *** blabla shows as "online"
[19:29:36] *** winfried shows as "online"
[19:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:33:17] *** blabla has left the room
[19:33:18] *** blabla shows as "online"
[19:34:30] *** zinid has left the room
[19:34:33] *** zinid shows as "online"
[19:36:55] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[19:37:00] *** Alex has left the room
[19:40:09] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[19:42:13] *** Alex has joined the room
[19:46:07] *** Guus has left the room
[19:46:14] *** Guus has joined the room
[19:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[19:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[19:47:38] *** jubalh has left the room
[19:48:41] *** zinid has left the room
[19:49:15] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[19:50:12] *** Guus has left the room
[19:50:22] *** Guus has joined the room
[19:51:18] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:51:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:55:17] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[19:56:58] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[19:57:20] *** daniel has left the room
[19:57:26] *** daniel shows as "online"
[19:58:33] *** SouL shows as "online"
[19:59:31] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:59:47] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:00:03] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:04:14] *** Guus has left the room
[20:04:15] *** Guus has joined the room
[20:06:40] *** SouL shows as "online"
[20:09:25] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:11:06] *** Guus has left the room
[20:11:14] *** Guus has joined the room
[20:14:36] *** Guus has left the room
[20:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:17:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:20:03] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:20:47] *** Lance has joined the room
[20:21:05] *** remko shows as "away"
[20:21:43] *** lovetox shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:21:43] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[20:28:07] *** hannes has joined the room
[20:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:32:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:37:45] *** winfried shows as "online"
[20:39:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:39:55] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:42:19] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[20:44:55] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:46:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[20:47:19] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[20:51:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:56:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:58:44] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:03:15] *** zinid has left the room
[21:03:27] *** Guus has joined the room
[21:03:34] *** Alex has left the room
[21:03:38] *** Alex has joined the room
[21:03:51] *** lumi has joined the room
[21:04:27] *** winfried shows as "online"
[21:05:20] *** matlag shows as "online"
[21:07:04] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:07:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:07:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:07:22] *** daniel shows as "online"
[21:07:34] *** Guus has left the room
[21:07:42] *** Guus has joined the room
[21:08:06] *** lumi has left the room
[21:08:11] *** lumi has joined the room
[21:08:39] *** daniel has left the room
[21:08:54] *** lskdjf has left the room
[21:08:54] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:08:55] *** daniel shows as "online"
[21:10:16] *** ralphm has joined the room
[21:17:01] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[21:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:18:23] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:18:23] *** lovetox shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:18:23] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[21:23:54] *** matlag shows as "away" and his status message is " (Absent(e) car inactif depuis plus de 5 min)"
[21:25:24] *** lskdjf has left the room
[21:25:24] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:25:49] *** intosi has joined the room
[21:26:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:26:51] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:27:31] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[21:27:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:27:46] *** remko shows as "online"
[21:27:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:28:14] *** remko has left the room
[21:28:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:31:04] *** lskdjf has left the room
[21:31:12] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:31:38] *** jonasw has left the room
[21:32:18] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:32:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:33:54] *** matlag shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Non disponible car inactif depuis plus de 15 min)"
[21:35:15] *** Alex shows as "online"
[21:37:40] *** blabla shows as "online"
[21:39:16] *** matlag shows as "online"
[21:40:19] *** Guus has left the room
[21:40:20] *** Guus has joined the room
[21:44:45] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[21:45:24] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:47:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:47:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:47:31] *** Alex has left the room
[21:48:50] *** Guus has left the room
[21:49:01] *** Guus has joined the room
[21:50:36] *** Guus has left the room
[21:55:42] *** daniel has left the room
[21:55:47] *** daniel shows as "online"
[21:58:11] *** SouL has left the room
[21:58:30] *** SouL shows as "online"
[21:58:35] *** intosi has left the room
[21:58:40] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[22:00:13] *** Guus has joined the room
[22:01:10] *** Guus has left the room
[22:01:16] *** Guus has joined the room
[22:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:02:19] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[22:05:52] *** bra has left the room
[22:05:52] *** bra has joined the room
[22:08:15] *** Alex shows as "online"
[22:08:31] *** Alex has left the room
[22:10:28] *** daniel has left the room
[22:10:36] *** daniel shows as "online"
[22:13:16] *** daniel has left the room
[22:15:43] *** jubalh has joined the room
[22:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:32:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:32:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:37:10] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:37:33] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:38:26] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:40:48] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[22:42:31] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:44:29] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[22:45:06] *** lovetox shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:45:06] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[22:45:47] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:47:29] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[22:47:29] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[22:51:36] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[22:53:56] *** lovetox has left the room
[22:56:31] *** lumi shows as "online"
[22:58:36] *** lovetox has joined the room
[23:02:06] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:02:09] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:02:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:02:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:03:40] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:04:21] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[23:05:00] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:06:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[23:06:30] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[23:06:31] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[23:06:34] *** tux has left the room
[23:11:11] *** lumi shows as "online"
[23:15:03] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[23:17:17] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:17:18] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:17:29] *** vanitasvitae shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[23:19:13] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[23:22:08] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[23:23:03] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:23:05] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:23:07] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:23:09] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:23:18] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:23:25] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:25:26] *** Guus has left the room
[23:25:28] *** Guus has joined the room
[23:27:50] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[23:30:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:30:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:30:19] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:30:28] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:31:02] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:32:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:32:20] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:35:36] *** Guus has left the room
[23:39:02] *** Alex has left the room
[23:40:00] *** lovetox has left the room
[23:46:56] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[23:47:19] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[23:47:21] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[23:49:45] *** matlag has left the room