Thursday, January 18, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[09:25:45] <Guus> jonasw: "ERROR: entry 'UWPX': should be placed behind 'Zom' (all entries must be ordered alphabetically by case-folded name)"
[09:25:52] <Guus> U > Z ?
[09:26:20] <Guus> https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/396
[09:26:38] <jonasw> fascinating
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[09:35:54] <intosi> You write Zom, but it's probably pronounced as Aaahhh.
[09:37:43] <Guus> and Jonas' parser picks up on that? Impressive.
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[09:39:03] <Kev> Do you have a better explanation?
[09:39:16] <jonasw> I for sure don’t
[09:39:24] <Guus> Leprechauns.
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[09:40:23] <jonasw> no unicode magic going on here
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[09:41:40] <Guus> I think it's just the error message being wrong
[09:41:55] <Guus> as in the commit, UWPX was placed after Zom
[09:42:02] <jonasw> yeah, but why
[09:42:06] <jonasw> I don’t understand that
[09:42:38] <jonasw> ah
[09:42:44] <jonasw> wait
[09:42:51] <Guus> I thnk you just mistyped the error message?
[09:42:54] <jonasw> yeah
[09:42:55] <jonasw> that makes sense
[09:43:20] <jonasw> yeah
[09:43:23] <jonasw> thanks
[09:43:29] <jonasw> that would’ve taken a while to figure out
[09:44:35] <jonasw> made a PR, waiting to see if CI passes on it
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[09:46:40] <Guus> tx
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[12:38:39] <jonasw> Guus, "feature complete" is a can of worms.
[12:38:54] <jonasw> Is dino feature complete?
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[13:06:01] <Guus> "not alpha"
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[13:07:00] <Guus> I've reworded it as "non-complete"
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[14:30:45] <Guus> board meeting time
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[14:30:55] <Guus> who's here?
[14:30:58] <Martin> I’m here
[14:31:09] <Martin> (Though I’m on a train, so may lose coverage randomly, apologies in advance)
[14:31:10] <MattJ> Here
[14:31:19] <Guus> ralphm sends apologies.
[14:31:28] <Guus> nyco?
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[14:32:37] <Guus> with Ralph missing, who wants to act as chair?
[14:33:05] <Guus> shall I give it a try?
[14:33:06] <Martin> I’d offer, but I really don’t trust this connection, sorry
[14:33:13] <Martin> Please do Guus
[14:33:18] <MattJ> wfm, thanks Guus
[14:33:23] *Guus bangs gavel
[14:33:38] <Guus> the agenda, as usual, is in https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings
[14:33:46] <Guus> does anyone want to add something last-minute?
[14:33:53] <Martin> Nothing from me
[14:33:57] <MattJ> Nor me
[14:34:17] <Guus> Would someone be so kind and take minutes?
[14:34:31] <MattJ> I can
[14:34:41] <Kev> I'll be vanishing in a couple of minutes, so I can't offer, sorry.
[14:34:49] <MattJ> I think we're also missing minutes from the last meeting - I can go back through the logs and write some up
[14:34:55] <Guus> thanks MattJ, Kev
[14:35:08] <Guus> MattJ, if you'd do that, that would be great, thanks!
[14:35:21] <MattJ> I don't recall what actions came out of the last meeting
[14:35:41] <Guus> nor do I - hopefully you'll find them in the log?
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[14:36:15] <Guus> I suggest that we work down the trello list, see what we come up with.
[14:36:23] <Guus> 3. Topics for decisions
[14:36:31] <Guus> first item there is Summit / FOSDEM
[14:36:36] <Kev> Unless anything involves me, in which case pop it to the top please. I ran out of the meeting last week just as I was being spoken to.
[14:36:59] <Guus> let's first do GSoC then
[14:37:23] <Guus> as you're more likely to have something to say on that, I think.
[14:37:32] <Kev> Stranger things have happened.
[14:37:57] <Guus> GSoC: the deadline for registration (as an organisation) is upon us (Jan 23rd)
[14:38:24] <Guus> Do we want to participate as an umbrella org again, like previous years?
[14:38:55] <Kev> I think it's nice when we do. Although there is plenty of precedent for us taking years off when we've not had the personpower.
[14:39:17] <Kev> I can't put the time in to more-or-less solo-admin, this year.
[14:39:43] <Kev> If there's one, or ideally two, other people who're willing to admin (and likely not mentor), I'm happy to assist them as long as they're willing to do the legwork.
[14:39:51] <Guus> Flow offered to act as an org admin, provided that he can also be a mentor.
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[14:40:10] <nyco> here, sorry
[14:40:15] <Kev> That seems like a Bad Idea for a first-time admin.
[14:40:20] <nyco> yes for GSoC
[14:40:31] <Kev> Even as a not-first-time-admin, I've taken to not doing both because the time involved gets silly.
[14:40:41] <MattJ> Kev, how much time is involved?
[14:41:03] <Kev> MattJ: Assume it's about the same as mentoring, so allow an hour a day or so, but on a good year it'll be much less.
[14:41:21] <Kev> It's much more front-loaded than mentoring, though, with preparing the wiki page and the application and stuff.
[14:41:43] <Kev> Day-to-day, it's mostly just keeping on top of the students and the mentors, making sure everyone turns up to the meetings, running the meetings, etc.
[14:42:45] <Kev> And with no disrepsect to Flo, he was usually too busy (I assume) to turn up to the meetings last year. So if he couldn't manage to turn up as a mentor, assuming he'd be able to manage it as an admin seems over-optimistic.
[14:43:07] <nyco> Flow would be good, can be a mentor as well, depending on his capacity to invest time
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[14:45:05] <MattJ> I think we should put out a more explicit request for volunteers
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[14:45:26] <nyco> sure, but that would be sad to miss this
[14:45:27] <Kev> I think just getting volunteers might lead to a case of people volunteering, and not being suitable for it, which is a danger.
[14:45:29] <MattJ> I think it would be good to participate in GSoC if we can, and I think we need Kev to assist if possible
[14:45:31] <Guus> whatever we do, we must do so in a matter of days.
[14:45:40] <MattJ> That is true
[14:45:43] <Kev> It would be better to miss a year, than to do a year badly and damage our (good!) reputation with google.
[14:46:00] <Guus> do we have interest from orgs to be in gsoc under the XSF umbrella?
[14:46:03] <MattJ> Have we had any explicit interest from projects?
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[14:46:43] <Guus> I know that Ignite wants to do GSoC, but also considers running as its own Org (that's what Flow suggested initially - as I'm in both orgs .... )
[14:46:45] <Kev> None of which I'm aware.
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[14:47:40] <Kev> At this point, I think I would suggest just skipping a year, as we've done in the past, based on this. Some other org gets slots instead.
[14:48:01] <Kev> But if Board does find suitable admins I'll work with them.
[14:48:06] <nyco> let's try before abandoning
[14:48:14] <Kev> I have to run now, feel free to pull me in at another time.
[14:48:16] <MattJ> I think it's unlikely at this point
[14:48:18] <MattJ> Thanks Kev
[14:48:24] <Martin> Thanks Kev
[14:48:24] <Guus> nyco, we pretty much have to deside today
[14:48:29] <Guus> thanks Kev
[14:48:38] <Kev> I'll be back here in 90 or so.
[14:48:45] <Guus> MattJ, what is unlikely?
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[14:49:23] <MattJ> Getting volunteer admins and them performing the required actions in advance of the deadline
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[14:49:42] <MattJ> and iirc at least some initial project ideas are required in advance of the deadline also
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[14:50:12] <Guus> right.
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[14:51:15] <Guus> I think it's doable, but if it's unclear if there's interest in joining under our umbrella, we might not want to bother this year.
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[14:51:50] <Guus> From an IgniteRealtime perspective, I'm also fine with doing this using IgniteRealtime as a GSoC org.
[14:52:03] <Guus> I'm personally primarily trying to avoid doing both...
[14:52:14] <MattJ> Sensible :)
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[14:52:55] <Kev> (Just ran back to say - even if we did decide today to do it, the odds of getting the ideas page in shape before the deadline are very limited. And I think we should not put in a half-arsed application)
[14:53:40] <Guus> I motion that we do _not_ apply as a GSoC umbrella organisation this year.
[14:53:50] <nyco> I'm sad, but I have to admit it
[14:54:16] <Martin> I agree with Kev, and the motion
[14:54:17] <MattJ> Guus, seconded
[14:54:33] <Guus> 3.2 - Summit/FOSDEM
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[14:54:51] <Guus> although listed under 'decisions' I don't think that there's any descions for board to make?
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[14:55:48] <MattJ> Not that I'm aware of
[14:56:07] <nyco> let's archive the card then
[14:56:14] <nyco> GSoC as well
[14:56:15] <Guus> As SCAM, I can report that preparations are under way. There now have been 20 people that signed up to attend the summit. Cisco has agreed to act as the venue again. We have the realtime lounge again at FOSDEM.
[14:56:40] <Guus> the only thing that we're missing is sponsoring. So far, we have one sponsor (for transportation of items to/from fosdem)
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[14:57:26] <Guus> Nyco, before we do - I'd like to discuss a bit on the finances.
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[14:58:11] <Guus> although XSF can cover the expenses, I'd really like to be able to raise money too - otherwise, our bank account will drain rapidly.
[14:58:18] <MattJ> Agreed
[14:58:45] <Guus> How did we do this before?
[14:58:58] <nyco> asked each company involved
[14:59:08] <MattJ> We didn't do it before (very well)
[14:59:37] <MattJ> Last year I agreed to seek sponsorship, but to the best of my knowledge we still haven't collected any money from most of them
[15:00:04] <MattJ> and of those I spoke to, that has been true in previous years also (to the extent that they questioned why they were even being asked)
[15:00:22] <Guus> As in, they agreed to sponsor, but we never billed them?
[15:00:26] <MattJ> Correct
[15:00:32] <MattJ> which is why I declined to volunteer for this role again, until we can solve this problem
[15:00:58] <Guus> meeting time is over - can we take this to a mail discussion, perhaps involve Peter?
[15:00:59] <MattJ> and it's a problem we really need to solve, or there is going to be a problem with the XSF funding anything
[15:01:13] <MattJ> Sure
[15:01:31] <Guus> I agree - it's silly to put in effort to find sponsors, but not actually obtain resources from them.
[15:01:48] <Guus> right - we're out of time for today
[15:01:53] <MattJ> So... I'll write up minutes for this week + last week + I'll start an email thread about fundraising
[15:02:00] <nyco> ok, thx
[15:02:11] <Guus> Any Other Business?
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[15:02:46] <nyco> nope
[15:02:49] <Guus> Date time of next, +1w ?
[15:02:54] <nyco> yes
[15:02:56] <Martin> +1w is fine with me
[15:03:32] <MattJ> wfm too
[15:03:36] *Guus bangs gavel
[15:03:41] <Guus> thank you, gentlemen.
[15:03:44] <Martin> Thanks Guus
[15:04:01] <nyco> thx all
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[16:43:02] <Kev> > Last year I agreed to seek sponsorship, but to the best of my knowledge we still haven't collected any money from most of them
That's true for us, I think, but we (Isode) also covered the expenses for our people who paid for things that the XSF should have covered (taxis etc.), so I think we've inadvertently paid our sponsorship more or less.
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[16:50:21] <Guus> Thanks, Kev / Isode.
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[18:38:23] <Flow> I didn't participate in the weekly GSOC XSF meetings because I found it unecessary and counterproductive FWIW. And from the backlogs I read of those meetings I can't tell why everyone should meet every week. It just drained time resources from mentors and students, who will meet regulary anyways.
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[18:47:41] <daniel> Mhh
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