Friday, January 19, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[09:37:06] <intosi> Or... it helped mentors know what students they didn't mentor were up to.
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[09:42:35] <Flow> Didn't we had mandatory weekly blog posts and a joined MUC for this?
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[09:43:10] <Kev> Not exactly, no.
[09:43:23] <Kev> The blog posts are public-facing and are a summary of the technical activity.
[09:43:47] <Kev> The weekly meetings are for keeping in touch and seeing how things are going and an opportunity to discuss issues, etc.
[09:45:29] <Flow> Nothing which justifies the tradeoff of holding a weekly meeting across all mentors and particanpts
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[09:46:05] <intosi> I disagree.
[09:46:57] <Kev> It doesn't have to be a weekly MUC meeting, naturally. But I think *something* of that nature is vital in trying to encourage a culture of being team players.
[09:47:11] <Kev> Surely you must have similar setups in other groups you're with - at work or with customers or whatever?
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[09:47:41] <Flow> Kev, if we work all on the same project
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[09:48:02] <intosi> We're part of the same organisation.
[09:48:22] <Flow> But weekly mandatory meetings with all particpants who work on different projects are counterproductive
[09:48:29] <intosi> Surely you have colleagues who work on other projects, and it makes sense to keep a sense of what's doing on there.
[09:48:37] <intosi> I know I do.
[09:48:42] <Flow> And the XSF is the only GSOC org who did that I'm aware of
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[09:59:29] <Flow> And the comparison with a proffesional paid environment seems odd. As spare time mentor I have to carefully decide how I spend my time, and those weekly meetings yielded nothing in return for me, and possibly for my student. If there had been another XSF GSOC project I had been interrested in, I would probably get in direct contact with the related mentor and student.
[10:00:02] <Flow> Actually that is what I did in 2015 when OMEMO was developed
[10:00:15] <jonasw> Flow, but then, getting in contact with specific mentors incurs O(n²) cost "if everyone did that"
[10:00:20] <jonasw> while a meeting can be O(n)
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[10:00:42] <Link Mauve> Flow, the only other org I was following some GSoCs ago was also holding a similar chat meeting with all students working on different projects.
[10:00:48] <Link Mauve> (Tatoeba.)
[10:01:01] <Flow> Link Mauve, a mandatory weekly meeting?
[10:01:35] <Flow> jonasw, true, but that assumes that everyone wants to know what everyone else does
[10:02:17] <Link Mauve> Yeah.
[10:02:42] <Kev> The biggest gain is probably ensuring that no student feels that they're on their own, or stuck with their mentor if they're not getting on, or the like.
[10:02:47] <jonasw> yeah, "if everyone did that"
[10:02:51] <Flow> Link Mauve, and there where different codebases involved? Was Tatoea acting as umbrella org?
[10:02:56] <Kev> In the happy path lots of the protections that an Admin has to put in place aren't as necessary.
[10:03:12] <Kev> But they're there because experience says that when things go wrong they can go very wrong unless you keep on top of things.
[10:03:41] <Link Mauve> Flow, different codebases (the current PHP-based tatoeba2, a totally new Django version, the Qt software Anki, and I think something else too).
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[10:05:00] <Flow> I think is sufficent to tell the students that they can contact the org admin if they having issues which they can't resolve with the mentor, it doesn't need a weekly meeting for that
[10:05:10] <Link Mauve> Flow, I’ve noticed that many newcomers tend not to think about going to the rooms of other projects.
[10:05:40] <Link Mauve> Maybe because IM is not fully part of their workflow, or a myriad of other reasons.
[10:06:14] <Link Mauve> Flow, also some people tend not to reach for help when they feel overwhelmed or lost, I know I have that tendency.
[10:06:40] <Flow> Link Mauve, I don't follow, sorry. This is not about having a joined MUC for GSOC, but about whether or neet it needs another additional mandatory weekly meeting
[10:07:02] <Link Mauve> It has affected me quite a lot in the past, until I started seriously working on that issue, people around me would only notice when it was very late.
[10:07:33] <Link Mauve> Flow, looking at other years, there was exactly no discussion in said MUC outside of the weekly meetings.
[10:08:05] <Flow> Link Mauve, there surely was discussion between mentor and student
[10:08:44] <Link Mauve> Maybe in private, and some in the project’s room, but I didn’t see any of that in the shared room.
[10:09:08] <Flow> And I didn't expect that to happen
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[15:07:58] <Flow> Shouldn't there be an edge from "Rejected" to "Experimental" in xep1 § 8.1?
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[16:03:41] <Dave Cridland> Flow, Hmmm. Possibly. I think Council should probably be able to fish things out of Rejected etc, and also push things back from Proposed to Experimental (which I think has happened).
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[16:08:21] <Kev> I've whinged about this for years, but never got traction with anyone else to fix it.
[16:08:40] <Kev> No, Council can't technically fish things out of Rejected, or from Proposed back to Experimental, although past Councils have ignored this and done it anyway.
[16:08:51] <Kev> I think XEP1 should be fixed to allow both.
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[16:09:01] <Flow> I don't think that it needs council to get from rejected to experimental
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[17:18:16] <Dave Cridland> Flow, I think it probably does. It's the moral equivalent of resubmitting as a new ProtoXEP.
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[17:18:54] <Ge0rG> But without a new number, I hope
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[17:55:14] <Flow> How can it be the "moral equivalent" if the previous XEP state was Experimental. What justifies a downgrade to ProtoXEP?
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