Thursday, January 25, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
January
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
       
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:06:53] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[00:15:37] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[00:15:47] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[00:17:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:17:13] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:24:24] *** lovetox has left the room
[00:26:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:26:05] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[00:27:20] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[00:29:01] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[00:37:55] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[00:52:32] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[01:00:44] *** lumi has left the room
[01:07:33] *** waqas has joined the room
[01:07:34] *** waqas has left the room
[01:10:40] *** matlag shows as "online"
[01:16:54] <moparisthebest> Whey is memberbot source code
[01:17:04] <moparisthebest> Where*
[01:17:33] <moparisthebest> I know I've seen it before but can't find it now
[01:20:07] *** Alex has left the room
[01:30:00] <moparisthebest> Is it https://github.com/legastero/memberbot
[01:30:11] <moparisthebest> Or is there a newer version
[01:41:07] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[01:44:02] *** efrit has joined the room
[01:57:40] *** SamWhited has left the room
[02:04:46] *** Tobias has joined the room
[02:10:01] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:10:05] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:10:36] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:10:42] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:11:08] *** efrit has left the room
[02:11:19] *** efrit has joined the room
[02:13:59] *** hannes has left the room
[02:14:00] *** hannes has joined the room
[02:15:26] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:15:29] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:15:52] *** bra shows as "online"
[02:26:37] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[02:27:57] *** SamWhited has left the room
[02:32:27] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:32:38] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:45:32] *** efrit has left the room
[02:45:42] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:05:42] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[03:25:18] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[03:30:08] *** matlag has left the room
[03:34:32] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[03:42:41] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[04:04:20] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[04:04:22] *** bra has left the room
[04:15:32] *** uc has joined the room
[04:41:26] *** Zash has left the room
[04:50:38] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[04:54:37] *** pep. has left the room
[04:54:42] *** pep. shows as "online"
[05:02:41] *** bra has joined the room
[05:07:43] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[05:15:27] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[05:15:28] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[05:16:44] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[05:16:49] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[05:16:51] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[05:19:28] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[05:35:42] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[05:53:22] *** Zash has joined the room
[05:57:05] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[06:05:49] *** tux has left the room
[06:05:51] *** tux has joined the room
[06:11:16] *** zinid shows as "online"
[06:16:04] *** zinid has left the room
[06:16:15] *** zinid shows as "online"
[06:21:39] *** Zash shows as "online"
[06:21:41] *** Zash shows as "online"
[06:23:33] *** goffi has joined the room
[06:34:28] *** suzyo has joined the room
[06:43:06] *** hannes has left the room
[06:43:46] *** zinid has left the room
[06:46:24] *** hannes has joined the room
[06:48:59] *** ralphm has joined the room
[06:52:00] *** uc has joined the room
[06:56:03] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[06:56:12] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:01:27] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[07:11:13] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[07:12:57] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[07:13:49] *** lovetox has joined the room
[07:20:44] *** ralphm has joined the room
[07:22:44] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:22:47] *** lovetox has left the room
[07:25:43] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[07:28:22] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:32:41] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:32:42] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[07:33:05] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:33:29] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[07:39:21] *** remko has joined the room
[07:39:22] *** remko shows as "online"
[07:39:52] *** jubalh has joined the room
[07:40:27] *** hannes has joined the room
[07:41:03] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:41:07] *** intosi shows as "online"
[07:41:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:46:14] *** xnyhps has left the room
[07:47:49] *** ralphm has left the room
[07:49:08] *** Guus has left the room
[07:49:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:51:12] *** bra shows as "online"
[07:52:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[07:53:21] *** blabla shows as "online"
[07:58:12] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:58:22] *** Guus has left the room
[08:03:17] *** ralphm has left the room
[08:05:08] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:06:06] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:07:44] <jonasw> SamWhited, would you be more in favour of #559 if it were a separate XEP?
[08:10:13] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:14:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:20:34] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[08:20:53] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:20:56] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[08:21:02] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[08:22:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:24:35] *** Kev shows as "online"
[08:27:23] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:30:57] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[08:33:01] *** jubalh has left the room
[08:34:56] *** hannes has joined the room
[08:36:15] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:36:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:37:23] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:37:51] *** blabla has left the room
[08:38:25] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:40:21] *** Kev shows as "away"
[08:40:41] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[08:42:54] *** jubalh has joined the room
[08:43:41] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:45:04] *** jubalh has left the room
[08:45:06] *** Tobias has left the room
[08:45:17] *** blabla shows as "online"
[08:45:29] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[08:47:47] *** remko shows as "away"
[08:50:05] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:50:06] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[08:50:43] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[08:50:43] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[08:51:12] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[08:51:19] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:52:51] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:54:41] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[08:54:42] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:58:29] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:58:53] *** hannes has left the room
[08:59:19] *** zinid shows as "online"
[09:02:19] *** remko shows as "online"
[09:02:27] *** blabla has left the room
[09:02:30] *** blabla shows as "online"
[09:04:44] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[09:05:29] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[09:08:29] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:10:28] *** Syndace has left the room
[09:10:34] *** Syndace has joined the room
[09:10:55] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[09:14:53] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:17:21] *** blabla shows as "online"
[09:17:38] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[09:17:49] *** Syndace has joined the room
[09:17:56] <SaltyBones> ah, mostly the usual crowd ;)
[09:18:25] <jonasw> yupp
[09:18:41] <jonasw> consolidating protocol discussion here is good tho
[09:20:45] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[09:23:49] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[09:31:18] *** hannes has joined the room
[09:33:49] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:35:08] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[09:35:49] *** blabla has left the room
[09:38:41] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[09:39:12] *** jonasw has left the room
[09:43:24] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[09:44:34] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:50:16] *Ge0rG updated the already-complicated MUC self-message matching with another heuristic yesterday.
[09:50:41] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[09:50:58] *** vanitasvitae has joined the room
[09:51:24] <Ge0rG> If the sent message begins with the reflected message, followed by a newline, this must be a reflection from a "MUC" that splits multi-line messages. Yikes.
[09:56:50] *** tux shows as "away"
[09:57:14] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[09:58:14] *** lumi has joined the room
[10:01:35] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[10:09:33] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[10:09:35] *** zinid has left the room
[10:10:03] *** zinid shows as "online"
[10:17:10] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[10:22:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:25:28] *** hannes has joined the room
[10:27:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:28:06] *** jubalh has joined the room
[10:30:15] *** suzyo has joined the room
[10:31:35] *** jubalh has left the room
[10:33:59] <edhelas> damn, we reached XEP 400
[10:35:07] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[10:36:01] <SouL> :D
[10:36:49] <edhelas> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0404.html
[10:42:44] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[10:44:53] <Ge0rG> edhelas: that in-joke won't work for long any more
[10:46:29] <SouL> Haha :)
[10:47:58] <Ge0rG> unless we can convince the editors to skip over 404
[10:48:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[10:48:47] <Ge0rG> Or, even better, somebody prepares a Humorous "XEP-404: XEP Not Found" that will be put into the queue at the right moment
[10:48:58] <Dave Cridland> Ge0rG, That's literally what I was in the process of typing.
[10:49:10] <Ge0rG> Dave Cridland: that proposal or that XEP?
[10:52:40] <Dave Cridland> The idea.
[10:55:42] *** jubalh has joined the room
[10:56:16] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[10:56:33] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[11:00:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:02:18] *** nyco has left the room
[11:05:27] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:06:10] *** hannes has joined the room
[11:10:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:10:20] *** jonasw has left the room
[11:10:21] *** jonasw has joined the room
[11:10:21] *** jonasw has left the room
[11:10:21] *** jonasw has joined the room
[11:11:00] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[11:11:43] <Holger> .
[11:12:07] <jonasw> :
[11:13:03] <Zash> ·:
[11:15:28] <SouL> :/
[11:18:40] <vanitasvitae> v
[11:22:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:23:05] *** lumi has left the room
[11:27:46] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:28:35] *** jere has joined the room
[11:28:43] *** nyco has joined the room
[11:29:46] *** remko shows as "away"
[11:39:49] *** hannes has joined the room
[11:41:45] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[11:43:27] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:44:09] *** intosi shows as "online"
[11:46:34] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[11:47:02] *** valo has left the room
[11:47:30] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[11:47:35] *** valo has joined the room
[11:48:03] *** zinid has left the room
[11:48:07] *** zinid shows as "online"
[11:51:21] <jonasw> .
[11:51:21] *** jonasw has left the room
[11:51:21] *** jonasw has joined the room
[11:51:21] *** jonasw has left the room
[11:51:21] *** jonasw has joined the room
[11:51:24] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[11:51:34] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:54:13] <zinid> ping
[11:54:30] <jonasw> pong!
[11:55:02] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[11:55:12] <Guus> 🔫 (pang)
[12:00:02] *** zinid has left the room
[12:00:18] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:00:35] *** jere has joined the room
[12:02:32] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:03:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:12:06] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[12:12:10] *** lskdjf has left the room
[12:12:10] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[12:12:32] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[12:13:18] *** edhelas has left the room
[12:13:20] *** remko shows as "online"
[12:13:21] *** Alex has joined the room
[12:13:24] *** Alex shows as "online"
[12:13:39] *** edhelas has joined the room
[12:13:42] *** jubalh has left the room
[12:14:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:14:36] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[12:16:05] *** winfried has left the room
[12:16:07] *** winfried has joined the room
[12:19:11] *** ralphm has left the room
[12:20:27] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[12:20:42] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[12:21:47] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[12:27:52] *** lumi has joined the room
[12:28:12] <SouL> Holger, look what you have done >:[
[12:29:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:32:43] <zinid> vanitasvitae knows how to fight spam!
[12:32:46] <zinid> https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/2246
[12:33:42] <Guus> there's a XEP that describes that...
[12:34:01] <Ge0rG> I've asked for that feature a year ago, or maybe two, too :)
[12:34:25] <zinid> what feature? rendering captchas?
[12:35:22] <zinid> and why a client cannot generate captchas on its own?
[12:35:36] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[12:35:37] <Ge0rG> zinid: why should the client do that? what do you do with multiple clients?
[12:35:47] <Ge0rG> zinid: do you have to solve a captcha for each of my clients? I have five or six
[12:35:55] <Guus> XEP-0159 I think
[12:36:36] <zinid> Ge0rG, ah, I see
[12:36:50] <Guus> allowing a server to respond with a challenge to potential spimmers (and keeping track of who is or is not a potential spimmer)
[12:37:27] <zinid> well, this is trivial to implement in ejabberd
[12:37:31] <jonasw> {xep 0159}
[12:37:33] <Bunneh> jonasw: Spim-Blocking Control (Standards Track, Deferred, 2006-07-11)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0159.html
[12:37:41] <zinid> the question is what client will support this?
[12:37:51] <Ge0rG> none!
[12:38:00] <Guus> zinid: as soon as you build it, pretty much every client :)
[12:38:25] <zinid> Guus, I built it for IBR ages ago, still only minority of clients support it
[12:39:22] <Guus> I assume that's because IBR is either not used as much, or used in a more 'trusted' setting (of an internal network).
[12:39:33] *** jubalh has joined the room
[12:39:53] <Guus> if it's easy for you to build, please consider adding it, at least as a configurable option?
[12:40:07] <Guus> it'll surely not hurt the spim battle.
[12:40:10] <Ge0rG> 0159 depends on Privacy Lists, which are deprecated.
[12:40:22] <Guus> eternal fame will be your part.
[12:40:24] <Ge0rG> I have two dozens of pending subscription requests
[12:40:41] <Ge0rG> PARS should also be able to pass through that captcha
[12:40:47] <vanitasvitae> The way I imagine it doesnt require client support
[12:41:13] <Guus> vanitasvitae: surely, the initiator's client should support it?
[12:41:26] <Ge0rG> vanitasvitae: please add a remark regarding PARS
[12:41:55] <vanitasvitae> Ge0rG: what is pars?
[12:42:09] *** remko shows as "away"
[12:42:12] <vanitasvitae> Guus: nope, it could be implemented purely server side
[12:42:39] <Guus> vanitasvitae: at some point, a person needs to verify that there's a person, not a spambot. Where does that happen?
[12:43:08] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[12:43:35] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[12:43:47] <SouL> vanitasvitae, do you mean solving the captcha in the browser?
[12:43:52] <vanitasvitae> > https://github.com/processone/ejabberd/issues/2246

[12:43:54] <SouL> jabber.ru used to do that
[12:44:15] <zinid> SouL, for joining rooms, yes, that's standard ejabberd's feature
[12:44:40] <zinid> but you only need to solve it in browser if you have retarded client
[12:44:49] <zinid> normal clients render captcha just fine
[12:46:01] <SouL> Yeah, what I tried to say is that a link is provided too heh ^^
[12:46:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:46:08] <zinid> true
[12:46:09] <Guus> oh, right. Yeah, I'd also see the 'open link in browser' as a fallback for clients that are not compliant.
[12:47:21] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:47:39] <Ge0rG> vanitasvitae: PARS is https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0379.html
[12:48:29] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:49:14] <zinid> vanitasvitae, ok, I have assigned the issue to myself, will see what I can do
[12:55:27] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[12:55:30] *** tux shows as "away"
[12:56:38] <vanitasvitae> zinid: nice
[12:58:18] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:02:57] *** lumi has left the room
[13:03:11] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[13:03:23] *** hannes has joined the room
[13:04:28] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:04:46] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[13:04:59] *** remko shows as "online"
[13:10:15] *** hannes has left the room
[13:10:31] *** hannes has joined the room
[13:11:27] *** jubalh has left the room
[13:11:41] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[13:12:52] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[13:15:13] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:20:38] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:20:57] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[13:21:50] *** matlag shows as "online"
[13:25:13] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:27:06] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[13:29:07] *** bra shows as "online"
[13:30:38] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:33:32] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[13:36:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:42:42] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[13:45:00] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:46:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:49:51] *** zinid shows as "online"
[13:51:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:51:45] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:52:26] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:53:06] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:54:07] *** lumi has joined the room
[13:58:30] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:58:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:58:59] *** jubalh has joined the room
[13:59:12] *** nyco has left the room
[13:59:38] *** nyco has joined the room
[14:00:19] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:01:41] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:01:41] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:01:49] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:01:49] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:01:57] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:01:57] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:02:05] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:02:05] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:02:13] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:02:21] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:02:21] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:02:29] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:02:29] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:02:37] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:02:46] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:02:46] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:02:54] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:02] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:03:02] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:10] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:03:10] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:18] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:26] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:03:26] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:34] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:41] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:49] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:03:58] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:03:58] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:04:05] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:04:15] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:04:15] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:04:22] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:04:30] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:04:39] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:04:39] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:04:45] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:04:55] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[14:04:55] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:05:02] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:05:06] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:05:12] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[14:06:49] <Ge0rG> Dave Cridland: there is still the technical challenge of not hosting the new XEP under xep-0404.html (leading zero)
[14:07:20] <jonasw> Ge0rG, I’m sure we can put a redirect from xep-404.html to xep-0404.html :)
[14:07:36] <Ge0rG> jonasw: the other way 'round would make more sense.
[14:07:44] <jonasw> and also be much more tricky
[14:07:51] <jonasw> I don’t want to mess with editor tooling on that level.
[14:07:51] <Ge0rG> don't think so
[14:08:08] <jonasw> maybe if it’s done at the end of the build stage
[14:08:12] <Ge0rG> jonasw: we could make XEP-404 work as a generic error page and serve it as that, then just blacklist 404.
[14:08:32] <Ge0rG> jonasw: wouldn't it suffice to create a xep-404.xml and build that?
[14:08:50] <jonasw> yeah, and then all tooling breaks because it expects filenames to have xep-%04d.html format.
[14:08:51] <Ge0rG> how is the "next autoincrement value to be used" determined?
[14:08:55] <jonasw> yeah, and then all tooling breaks because it expects filenames to have xep-%04d.xml format.
[14:09:05] <jonasw> max(accepted_xeps.keys()), actually
[14:09:13] <Ge0rG> a rewrite rule on the server, that doesnt do 30x
[14:09:19] <Ge0rG> hm. oka
[14:09:21] <Ge0rG> +y
[14:09:28] <jonasw> yeah, that’d work of course
[14:09:34] <jonasw> that’s kinda what I meant by redirect :)
[14:09:39] *** winfried has joined the room
[14:09:45] <jonasw> Ge0rG, https://github.com/xsf/xeps/blob/master/tools/accept.py#L78 to be specific ;)
[14:10:31] <jonasw> but that can easily be overridden once to avoid 404 to be created when 403 is the newest one.
[14:10:59] <Ge0rG> jonasw: I'm sure max() will work out properly if there is a xep-404
[14:11:01] <jonasw> (FWIW, I would’ve preferred to avoid relying on %04d, but taking all XML or xep-*.xml files in the directory did wrong things because of templates and such)
[14:11:12] <Ge0rG> yeah
[14:12:29] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[14:15:06] *** jubalh has left the room
[14:18:32] *** Martin has joined the room
[14:20:43] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:22:08] <jonasw> I noticed that the copyright in the XEP page headers is still "© 1999 – 2017 XMPP Standards Foundation. SEE LEGAL NOTICES."
[14:22:12] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:22:17] <jonasw> do we want this to be "1999 – 2018" on all the xeps?
[14:22:22] <Ge0rG> jonasw: yes please
[14:22:43] <Ge0rG> But you might want to get Board approval for that.
[14:23:07] <SamWhited> nah, then it'll sort as 404 not 260 and be way higher than the other xeps (assuming python where leading 0 is octal)
[14:23:35] <jonasw> SamWhited, not in python3 anymore ;)
[14:23:40] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:23:50] <jonasw> (in python3, 0123 is simply syntax error)
[14:23:57] <SamWhited> oh, weird
[14:24:07] <SamWhited> nothing to do here then
[14:24:53] <jonasw> SamWhited, would you be more in favour of #559 if it were a separate XEP?
[14:24:56] *** nyco has left the room
[14:25:25] *** pep. shows as "online"
[14:25:50] <SamWhited> I'm not sure, I need to think over how the change will affect things (assuming that's the muc change)
[14:26:02] <jonasw> yah, it’s the MUC change
[14:26:56] *** pep. shows as "online"
[14:27:12] <Ge0rG> This is not PHP, where "0280" parses as 2.
[14:28:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:29:21] *** nyco has joined the room
[14:29:41] <MattJ> and is == to TRUE, FALSE, "2", "0" and "sausages"
[14:29:44] *** nyco shows as "online"
[14:29:55] <nyco> Test C
[14:30:00] <jonasw> ohai nyco
[14:30:01] *** hannes has joined the room
[14:30:04] <nyco> Test M
[14:30:08] <intosi> So it's not vegan, much like the new notes?
[14:30:14] <nyco> seems to work for now
[14:30:16] *** ralphm changed the title to "XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings"
[14:30:23] *ralphm bangs gavel
[14:30:24] <MattJ> intosi, I've not tasted either of them
[14:30:27] <nyco> these days, I lose messages, got delays
[14:30:31] <ralphm> 0. Welcome & Agenda
[14:30:37] <ralphm> Who do we have today?
[14:30:47] <nyco> o/
[14:30:52] <Guus> me
[14:30:58] <MattJ> nyco, then I suggest you use a different server/client, otherwise it will be hard to participate...
[14:31:01] <MattJ> I'm here
[14:31:14] <Martin> I'm here
[14:31:15] <nyco> it would be nice if XMPP worked fine...
[14:31:25] <MattJ> Working fine for me, but anyway...
[14:31:29] <nyco> for me
[14:31:45] <ralphm> Full house, splendid
[14:31:46] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:31:53] <nyco> it seems you don't receive my messages in one-to-one chat
[14:31:54] <Guus> (that's a first, I think?)
[14:31:55] <ralphm> Any additional topics for the agenda?
[14:32:04] <MattJ> None here
[14:32:16] <jonasw> ralphm, yeah, whether I shall update the copyright notice on XEPs with this year.
[14:32:24] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:32:25] <jonasw> (it currently reads "© 1999 – 2017")
[14:32:26] <Guus> I've got nothing that's not already on Trello.
[14:32:27] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:32:27] <nyco> please add the card
[14:32:30] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:32:33] <ralphm> I don't think copyrights work like that
[14:32:39] <jonasw> I have no idea either
[14:32:45] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:32:49] <jonasw> but having not the current year there looks weird
[14:32:52] <jonasw> cf. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0301.html
[14:33:06] <ralphm> ok, putting that in later
[14:33:15] <Guus> (not sure if that's up to board?)
[14:33:15] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:33:18] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:33:32] <jonasw> Guus, me neither, but it feels boardish
[14:33:37] <jonasw> (and Ge0rG from council said so :))
[14:33:38] <ralphm> 1. Board priorities
[14:33:53] <ralphm> I believe we still need to schedule a video conference on this, no?
[14:33:58] <nyco> yep
[14:34:01] <nyco> that's on me
[14:34:15] <nyco> when's best?
time
day of week
what week?
[14:34:31] <Guus> let's schedule that via mail?
[14:34:38] <nyco> maybe not this week, nor next
[14:34:41] <nyco> ok
[14:34:45] <nyco> I'll send a poll
[14:34:50] <ralphm> great
[14:34:56] <MattJ> +1
[14:35:00] <nyco> if I had your nogo, that could help
[14:35:03] <nyco> if any
[14:35:16] <Guus> perhaps combine with summit?
[14:35:27] <nyco> good question
[14:35:39] <ralphm> Guus: this was indeed suggested, but one of us isn't going to be there physically
[14:36:00] <nyco> I feel like those discussions would benefit a lot from members
but I fear the crowd will be too large for everyone to be heard
[14:36:10] <Guus> ralphm: perhaps one joining in remotely?
[14:36:15] <ralphm> indeed
[14:36:24] <nyco> that said, this discussion would also benefit from non-members, that is the rest of the world
[14:36:31] <Guus> nyco: to clarify, I was not suggesting to discuss this during the summit itself, but in the evening or something.
[14:36:39] <Guus> wiht just board members.
[14:36:39] <ralphm> Let's continue this on list then
[14:36:51] <nyco> that's two more hours of work, I guess people wanna have beer
[14:37:00] <Guus> on list. :)
[14:37:11] *** hannes has joined the room
[14:37:11] <ralphm> 2. Bus Factor Bank Account
[14:37:21] <ralphm> Did you discuss this last week?
[14:37:31] <nyco> yep
[14:38:01] <Guus> I still would like to know what the bank procedures are on this. Haven't talked to Peter about this in a couple of weeks though.
[14:38:26] <ralphm> So we need to track him down on that, ok.
[14:38:28] <Guus> if bank procedures are adequate, I'd prefer not to add individuals.
[14:38:39] *ralphm nods
[14:39:01] <ralphm> 3. Copyright statements on XEPs
[14:39:27] <Dave Cridland> My suggestion on copyrights would be to claim the present year always.
[14:39:46] <Guus> if all our current XEPs list an end date in 2017, I'd simply update that to 2018.
[14:39:55] <ralphm> agreed
[14:40:00] <Guus> that said: I'm not sure how these are supposed to work.
[14:40:23] <ralphm> I think that's usual practice. Whether it holds up in court is another mattre.
[14:40:26] <ralphm> matter
[14:40:43] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, It only matters after what, 75 years? I think we're safe.
[14:41:09] <ralphm> Dave Cridland: :-D
[14:41:11] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, Might want to make a note to revisit after we're all dead.
[14:41:17] <Guus> I'd say: make it 2018.
[14:41:18] <ralphm> noted
[14:41:23] <ralphm> 4. AOB
[14:41:38] <Dave Cridland> Summit status?
[14:41:38] <nyco> Summit?
[14:41:46] <Guus> You're leaving out the items for discussion?
[14:41:49] <nyco> I need to book the dinner
[14:41:57] <nyco> same place as usual? auberge bretonne?
[14:42:20] <nyco> if no opposition, I'm on it
[14:42:27] <Guus> works for me.
[14:42:37] <nyco> consider it done
[14:42:43] <nyco> what else?
[14:42:45] <Dave Cridland> I suggested to Guus that we might want to specifically seek out people to invite. The Google open source office people might be around, for example.
[14:42:46] <Guus> financials-wise, I have questions
[14:42:58] *** andrzej has joined the room
[14:43:10] <Guus> Ah, I thought you ment to invite our GSoC students.
[14:43:40] <Guus> but yeah, I'd be in favour of both.
[14:44:08] <MattJ> Likewise
[14:44:28] <Dave Cridland> There's probably other folks we might invite, if we think about it. Maybe even the Matrix folks. If only so we can stick them with the bill.
[14:44:33] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[14:44:38] <ralphm> hah
[14:45:08] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:45:08] <nyco> good idea, they may already have a plan, they got a company, a community
[14:45:20] <nyco> but yeah we can merge
[14:45:23] <ralphm> anything else here?
[14:45:27] <nyco> any RTC
[14:45:33] <nyco> nope
[14:45:36] <Guus> Shall I extend the invitation to Google?
[14:45:41] <ralphm> Guus: please do
[14:45:42] <Guus> + students?
[14:45:43] <nyco> +1
[14:46:02] <nyco> we gotta keep the number acceptable
[14:46:09] <Guus> students are two persons.
[14:46:12] *** daniel has joined the room
[14:46:17] <nyco> so that I book without a too large error margin
[14:46:30] <nyco> ok,Google? Matrix? How many?
[14:46:34] <SaltyBones> Oh, are people going to fosdem?
[14:46:36] <Guus> (well, three, but I'm guessing one is not coming)
[14:46:53] <Guus> I'll extend just to Google, and ask for attendance numbers.
[14:47:15] <MattJ> SaltyBones, yes, people are going to FOSDEM
[14:47:30] <Dave Cridland> SaltyBones, Lots of people, and for two days before as well.
[14:47:51] <SaltyBones> Can I join some of your meetings?
[14:47:53] <ralphm> https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_22
[14:47:58] <ralphm> SaltyBones: have a look there
[14:48:01] <Dave Cridland> SaltyBones, Please do.
[14:48:03] <Guus> I'd like to have us address the financials for a bit
[14:48:12] <ralphm> Guus: shoot
[14:48:14] <Martin> Agreed Guus
[14:48:19] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[14:48:26] <Guus> a) apart from a van, we have no sponsors
[14:48:35] <Guus> b) see Matt's mail from earlier today
[14:48:54] *** pep. shows as "online"
[14:49:06] <Guus> XSF will cover the diner, I assume. Will it also cover lunch at Cisco?
[14:50:04] <ralphm> If there's no sponsors, I believe we should, yes.
[14:50:28] <ralphm> Of course I'd prefer companies stepping up for sponsorship.
[14:50:35] <Guus> We could have individuals pay for themselves, but I'd prefer not to.
[14:50:37] <nyco> I'll try mine
[14:50:59] <Guus> Does the XSF also cover transportation to/from the dinner?
[14:51:20] <MattJ> Generally, yes
[14:51:20] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:51:22] <Dave Cridland> Guus, Traditionally, yes.
[14:51:30] <Guus> (and, obviously, I'd prefer sponsorship, but if we cant find any...)
[14:51:34] <Guus> ok, thanks
[14:51:37] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:51:53] <Guus> I'll try to figure out how this works with Lunch at Cisco, offline.
[14:51:58] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:52:01] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:52:04] <Guus> nyco, you were going to arrange for dinner transportation, correct?
[14:52:05] <ralphm> It is easy really
[14:52:13] <ralphm> We pay at the register
[14:52:36] <ralphm> dinner transportation is generally a few cabs
[14:52:49] <ralphm> of course they'd have to be called in time
[14:53:08] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:53:08] <Kev> And generally what happens is that individuals (often Isode) end up paying for the cabs.
[14:53:15] <Kev> Which might not work so well this year.
[14:53:16] <Guus> we don't have an XSF credit/debit card I think, so someone will have to front?
[14:53:23] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:53:24] <nyco> Guus yes
[14:53:32] <nyco> Uber? taxi? coach?
[14:54:01] <Guus> I have no preference for a type of transportation.
[14:54:05] <Dave Cridland> We should arrange something ahead of time, after last year.
[14:54:12] <nyco> running will do, then
[14:54:29] <nyco> tell me your preferences
[14:54:30] <ralphm> Anyway, in terms of sponsorship for the Summit, we could write an e-mail asking for sponsorship, like we did last time
[14:54:34] *** blabla shows as "online"
[14:54:41] <nyco> email written to ESL
[14:54:51] *** blabla shows as "online"
[14:54:52] <MattJ> For what it's worth, I don't think it's ever been difficult for us to find sponsors - all we need to do is ask
[14:54:57] <ralphm> For the more general topic, maybe we should discuss this next week in person
[14:55:04] <ralphm> MattJ: right
[14:55:09] <ralphm> I'll write that e-mail
[14:55:14] <ralphm> anything else?
[14:55:41] <Guus> (not from me)
[14:55:45] <nyco> https://trello.com/c/vFYiyf9I/300-summit-sponsoring
[14:55:50] <Guus> please look at the commitment list? :)
[14:55:51] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:55:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:56:12] *** lumi has left the room
[14:56:31] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:56:53] <Guus> there has been an Item For Discussion on Trello that has gone undiscussed: the surveying thing
[14:57:11] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:57:19] <Guus> can we either discuss or archive that?
[14:57:20] <Guus> https://trello.com/c/wIlPrAyC/258-consider-surveying-membership-to-work-out-what-the-issues-are-and-what-the-board-can-do-to-help
[14:57:27] <ralphm> Indeed, it's been there for a few weeks, and I thought it would be part of the general priorities discussion
[14:57:48] <ralphm> Does that make sense?
[14:57:57] <nyco> https://trello.com/c/8XwcLKzf/301-summit-dinner
[14:58:14] <Guus> might be a chicken/egg type of deal, but, sure.
[14:58:37] <nyco> a lot of effort, for what result?
[14:59:04] <nyco> if someone commits to this, thx, I will provide some support
[15:00:07] *** uc has joined the room
[15:00:09] <ralphm> All right.
[15:00:12] <nyco> ok
[15:00:20] <ralphm> 5. Date of Next
[15:00:28] <nyco> +1w, +1
[15:00:31] <nyco> ;-)
[15:00:35] <Guus> that's the summit
[15:00:41] *** daniel has left the room
[15:00:55] <ralphm> I'm not sure if doing a meeting at the summit is useful
[15:01:08] <ralphm> with our regular agenda, that is
[15:01:15] *** bra has left the room
[15:01:16] *** bra has joined the room
[15:01:18] <Guus> I'd at the very least would want to be attending the summit at that hour
[15:01:23] <ralphm> So I propose we do our next normal meeting in 2 weeks
[15:01:24] <MattJ> I'm inclined to agree
[15:01:48] <Guus> perhaps we could do the prio thingy in the sidelines of the summit, but for the regular meeting, +2w would be my preference.
[15:01:53] <Martin> +2W sounds good to me
[15:02:03] <ralphm> good
[15:02:06] <ralphm> 6. Close
[15:02:08] <ralphm> Thanks all!
[15:02:12] <nyco> merci !
[15:02:12] *ralphm bangs gavel
[15:02:12] <jonasw> \o/
[15:02:13] <Guus> thank you
[15:02:33] *** ralphm changed the title to "XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings"
[15:02:37] <MattJ> Thanks
[15:02:54] <ralphm> And see most of you next time, of course!
[15:03:01] <nyco> ;-)
[15:03:03] <ralphm> next week that is
[15:03:56] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:03:59] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:04:21] <nyco> weather not super optimistic
[15:06:20] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[15:06:31] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:08:29] *** hannes has joined the room
[15:13:11] *** blabla has left the room
[15:14:01] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[15:18:44] <Ge0rG> Sigh. It's been almost a month and I haven't yet managed to reach stpeter. Maybe I need to switch to email
[15:20:48] <intosi> Ge0rG: usually the best option.
[15:21:00] <jonasw> Ge0rG, or comment on random old issues on the xmpp.org repository :D
[15:21:11] <jonasw> which, probably, is swithcing to email
[15:25:36] *** hannes has left the room
[15:26:30] *** hannes has joined the room
[15:27:14] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:31:56] *** Martin shows as "online"
[15:32:05] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:33:40] *** efrit has joined the room
[15:36:44] *** hannes has left the room
[15:37:42] *** hannes has joined the room
[15:46:45] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[15:46:49] *** Martin shows as "online"
[15:47:04] *** andrzej has left the room
[15:50:21] *** hannes has left the room
[15:51:23] *** hannes has joined the room
[15:52:03] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[15:53:19] *** bra shows as "online"
[15:54:06] *** hannes has left the room
[15:56:09] *** hannes has joined the room
[16:00:11] *** lumi has joined the room
[16:02:05] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[16:07:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[16:08:00] <Ge0rG> jonasw: TBH I just didn't want to implement Data Forms in yaxim for preauth-IBR :<
[16:08:52] *** remko shows as "away"
[16:09:27] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:09:30] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:14:01] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:15:48] *** efrit has left the room
[16:17:43] *** Guus has left the room
[16:17:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:18:07] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:20:05] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:21:15] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:23:06] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:24:44] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:25:10] *** uc has joined the room
[16:27:28] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:27:32] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:28:18] <jonasw> Ge0rG, you don’t need to fully implement them, do you?
[16:28:25] <jonasw> like with ad-hoc
[16:29:45] <jonasw> more worrisome is that IBR doesn’t seem to define form field names for username and password
[16:30:16] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:30:21] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:31:22] *** Guus has left the room
[16:33:16] *** hannes has left the room
[16:33:18] *** hannes has joined the room
[16:34:29] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:35:21] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:36:12] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:36:14] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:36:47] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:36:51] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:40:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:41:08] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:43:26] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[16:44:12] *** jere has left the room
[16:44:20] *** jere has joined the room
[16:48:17] <SouL> jonasw: if a XEP that has been deferred gets an implementation, will become again draft at least? Do you know?
[16:48:48] <jonasw> SouL, no
[16:48:51] <jonasw> it won’t
[16:49:06] <SouL> Oh
[16:49:06] <jonasw> the state transition is Experimental -> Deferred, not Draft -> Deferred
[16:49:20] <jonasw> to get a XEP from Deferred to Experimental, all it needs is an update by the author
[16:49:27] <jonasw> (non-editoral update)
[16:49:34] <SouL> What if it does not need any update?
[16:49:43] <jonasw> then the author can ask council to move it to Draft
[16:49:50] <jonasw> for this it needs to pass through Last Call
[16:49:50] <SouL> Ah ok!
[16:50:05] <jonasw> I don’t think that Draft needs to have implementations technically, but council will like it if it does
[16:50:43] <SouL> I will and then ask again..
[16:50:49] <SouL> 😞
[16:51:08] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:51:45] <jonasw> but advancing a XEP to Draft without implementations is likely to be a bad move; without implementations, there’s no deployment experience and there will likely be issues which should be fixed before Draft
[16:53:08] <SouL> Sorry jonasw, I said Draft but I wanted do say Experimental
[16:53:32] <SouL> So Experimental -> Deferred -> Experimental
[16:53:45] <SouL> My bad for causing confusion
[16:54:12] <SouL> I guess the case would be the same, vote again, like a ProtoXEP?
[16:55:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:55:31] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[16:56:24] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[16:58:49] <jonasw> SouL, I gave you some feedback :)
[16:58:52] <jonasw> (on list)
[16:59:12] <jonasw> no, Deferred -> Experimental is purely procedural (just like Experimental -> Deferred) and does not need a vote.
[16:59:13] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[16:59:13] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[16:59:34] <jonasw> if the author publishes an update on a Deferred XEP, it automatically becomes Experimental again, no vote needed.
[16:59:46] *** bra shows as "online"
[17:00:06] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:01:39] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:04:55] *** Martin shows as "online"
[17:05:09] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:05:29] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:05:39] *** Martin has left the room
[17:06:08] *** nyco has left the room
[17:06:12] *** nyco shows as "online"
[17:08:38] <SouL> jonasw: I see you sent some feedback, thank you, when it was submitted, there were not many comments on it. I will take a look, thanks for clearing things up too
[17:08:55] *** Guus has left the room
[17:08:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:09:03] <zinid> is processing hints supposed to be deferred?
[17:09:16] <jonasw> zinid, it was experimental before, it hasn’t been updated in 12 months, it gets deferred
[17:09:30] <jonasw> there was some discussion around deprecating it, but I don’t think there has been a vote
[17:09:42] <jonasw> SouL, you’re welcome! I didn’t see it when it went Experimental
[17:10:03] <zinid> jonasw, I know that it is deferred due to inactivity, I just wonder what council think about it
[17:10:04] <jonasw> SouL, so this automated status change to Deferred is a good thing; it reminds the community that the XEP exists and something should be done about it.
[17:10:10] <jonasw> zinid, we’ll see
[17:11:04] <zinid> yes, deferring due to inactivity is a good idea
[17:17:36] *** lovetox has joined the room
[17:18:34] *** Martin has joined the room
[17:18:39] *** Martin shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:18:43] *** Martin shows as "online"
[17:20:00] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[17:21:06] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[17:22:22] *** Guus has left the room
[17:24:59] *** zinid has left the room
[17:25:41] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[17:27:04] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[17:28:47] *** bra shows as "online"
[17:28:52] *** intosi shows as "online"
[17:31:24] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[17:31:34] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[17:34:02] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:36:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:38:11] *** Martin has left the room
[17:39:00] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[17:41:05] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[17:43:54] *** ralphm has left the room
[17:45:10] *** bra shows as "online"
[17:45:57] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:46:20] *** remko shows as "online"
[17:47:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[17:49:44] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:52:02] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:52:04] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:54:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:54:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:54:30] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:54:35] *** intosi shows as "online"
[17:56:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:04:40] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[18:05:41] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[18:06:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:08:11] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[18:14:50] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[18:14:51] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[18:14:54] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[18:20:26] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:23:02] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:23:25] *** daniel has left the room
[18:24:17] *** tux has left the room
[18:25:11] *** remko shows as "away"
[18:27:10] *** remko shows as "online"
[18:30:32] *** testytest1 has joined the room
[18:39:38] *** Syndace has left the room
[18:39:42] *** Syndace has joined the room
[18:43:38] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:43:52] *** remko shows as "away"
[18:44:22] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[18:45:08] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:48:00] *** jjrh has left the room
[18:48:05] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[18:50:29] *** jjrh has left the room
[18:51:18] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[18:52:33] *** ralphm has joined the room
[18:54:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:55:09] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:56:20] *** jjrh has left the room
[18:56:40] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[19:00:14] *** hannes has left the room
[19:00:32] *** hannes has joined the room
[19:02:06] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:04:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:06:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:11:02] *** Guus has left the room
[19:11:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:12:46] *** nyco has left the room
[19:12:58] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[19:13:47] *** Link Mauve has left the room
[19:14:39] *** nyco shows as "online"
[19:15:19] *** intosi shows as "online"
[19:18:55] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[19:19:22] *** Guus has left the room
[19:20:29] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:20:31] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:20:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:26:32] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[19:31:09] *** suzyo has joined the room
[19:32:39] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:35:10] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[19:35:47] *** Alex shows as "online"
[19:38:25] *** bra shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[19:39:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:39:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:45:25] *** Kev shows as "online"
[19:48:49] *** Link Mauve has joined the room
[19:49:23] *** boothj5 has joined the room
[19:49:23] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[19:49:40] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[19:49:56] *** lumi shows as "online"
[19:53:52] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:58:23] *** bra shows as "xa" and his status message is "Автостатус (неактивен)"
[20:00:20] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:05:09] <goffi> hi there https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16234057
[20:05:30] <goffi> it's a link to my blog to present new web framework feature
[20:18:14] <Ge0rG> goffi: what's the title? when deep-linking, HN will downgrade the votes
[20:18:42] <Ge0rG> ah, "Show HN: Decentralized web framework based on XMPP (Salut à Toi)" in https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
[20:19:53] <jonasw> goffi, feature request for https://www.goffi.org/b/96207aea-9bd8-4333-a346-63638c041ef7/build-
[20:20:05] <jonasw> click to expand should not be necessary when viewing a single post
[20:20:50] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[20:20:50] *** uc has left the room
[20:21:26] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[20:22:52] <SamWhited> It might just be me, but I didn't actually understand what the thing was that post was talking about (is it just web auth using your XMPP account?). Maybe link to the source or a tutorial or somewhere that provides more information?
[20:23:12] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:23:26] *** winfried has joined the room
[20:24:14] *** nyco has left the room
[20:24:28] <SamWhited> It sounded intriguing though!
[20:24:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:24:39] *** nyco shows as "online"
[20:25:32] *** mimi89999 shows as "away" and his status message is "a"
[20:25:34] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[20:27:06] *** uc has joined the room
[20:28:04] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[20:28:28] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[20:28:36] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[20:29:14] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:33:09] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:34:30] *** jubalh has joined the room
[20:39:02] *** Alex has left the room
[20:39:54] *** hannes has left the room
[20:40:09] *** Alex has joined the room
[20:42:29] *** hannes has joined the room
[20:43:30] *** boothj5 has left the room
[20:44:42] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:47:42] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:51:42] *** daniel has joined the room
[20:52:03] *** ralphm has left the room
[20:54:43] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[20:54:58] <moparisthebest> has anyone done anything like uh, imap over xmpp
[20:55:09] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:56:20] <jonasw> moparisthebest, I think Salut á Toi has something along those lines
[20:56:21] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[20:56:22] <Zash> in what sense?
[20:56:24] <jonasw> more like XMPP over imap though
[20:57:43] <moparisthebest> well, my phone currently keeps 2 TCP connections open/idle, XMPP and IMAP IDLE
[20:58:08] <moparisthebest> it would be handy if the xmpp app just passed new messages to the email app, and I only needed 1 connection :)
[20:58:10] <Zash> Tunnel them both over ssh
[20:58:43] <jonasw> moparisthebest, why do you care?
[20:58:51] <Zash> Didn't GTalk have some protocol for notifying about new messages?
[20:58:53] <moparisthebest> doesn't really solve the problem, imap idle has to refresh the connection every so often etc
[20:59:18] <moparisthebest> jonasw, yea to be honest it's basically not a problem, just wondered if it'd been done before, I'm always surprised by random XEPs
[20:59:35] <goffi> jonasw: yes I know, it's not stable release yet, it will be done then
[20:59:47] <jonasw> goffi, maybe a bad move to announce it on HN then?
[20:59:49] <jonasw> but that’s just me
[21:00:17] <goffi> SamWhited: planing to write a tutorial too, but it takes time (and I have a paid job not related to XMPP)
[21:01:07] <goffi> moparisthebest: yes, we have SMTP and IMAP, not as a gateway but client side (to use Thunderbird to read your XMPP messages)
[21:01:28] <moparisthebest> ah the opposite, still interesting goffi
[21:01:48] <goffi> note that it was before than Thunderbird actually read XMPP ;)
[21:02:27] <goffi> jonasw: well Show HN is exactly for that if I understood correctly
[21:03:03] <goffi> stuff advanced enough to try, but not necessarly finished and production ready
[21:03:42] <goffi> any way when I post to HN I don't expect it to reach first page :)
[21:03:49] <jonasw> goffi, I don’t visit HN, so I have no idea :)
[21:03:50] <moparisthebest> it might be interesting to just replace sending and recieving in an email client with doing that over xmpp (which at server side would just shove it off to a real imap/smtp server)
[21:04:11] <jonasw> moparisthebest, no, it would not
[21:04:25] <jonasw> you would always incur the factor 4/3 for base64-ing things
[21:04:31] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:04:34] <jonasw> unless you map mime to xmpp with SHIM, whihc probably has its own set of interesting issues
[21:04:49] <moparisthebest> it's all text based, why not shove it through un-encoded?
[21:05:24] <jonasw> I /think/ that you can do 8-bit things in SMTP
[21:05:26] <goffi> oh actually it's first in "show" section (https://news.ycombinator.com/show)
[21:05:32] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[21:05:44] <jonasw> moparisthebest, also, SMTP and IMAP are octet-based
[21:05:46] <jonasw> not text-based
[21:05:49] <jonasw> (like XML is)
[21:06:06] <goffi> moparisthebest: there is an email gateway somewhere in my TODO list
[21:06:32] <jonasw> at least on the layer the application sees, XMPP is text-based (it has a well-defined encoding everywhere). in email, there’s no such thing (see the hacks you need to do to get unicode into a subject line)
[21:06:56] <moparisthebest> jonasw, I mean you can send emails via SMTP with telnet, text based enough
[21:07:02] <jonasw> of course, all of this could be solved in one way or another (e.g. by fully mapping MIME into XML somehow)
[21:07:05] <Link Mauve> SMTP at least is not octet-based, it’s ASCII-based.
[21:07:06] <jonasw> moparisthebest, telnet is byte-based too
[21:07:17] <Link Mauve> You can’t use more than 7 bits per octet.
[21:07:27] <jonasw> you can, with the 8BIT extension; but that’s not my point, really
[21:07:27] <moparisthebest> it reads lines one by one etc etc
[21:07:28] <Link Mauve> Hence the encoding monsters.
[21:07:38] <moparisthebest> I think it'd be fairly straightforward, not sure
[21:07:41] <jonasw> moparisthebest, that’s not text-based ;)
[21:07:58] <moparisthebest> version #1 would just replace imap idle for push notifications
[21:08:03] <moparisthebest> over xmpp
[21:08:06] <goffi> and commented by edhelas from Movim. But we didn't made a video to show how it's cool and never seen before :D
[21:10:27] *** remko shows as "online"
[21:10:42] *** remko has left the room
[21:13:25] *** daniel has left the room
[21:13:34] *** mimi89999 shows as "away" and his status message is "a"
[21:13:41] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[21:14:29] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:20:53] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:31:32] *** nyco has left the room
[21:32:42] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:32:55] *** tux shows as "online"
[21:32:58] *** jere has joined the room
[21:33:26] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:34:39] *** nyco shows as "online"
[21:35:09] *** goffi has left the room
[21:35:41] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:38:16] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:39:30] *** tux has left the room
[21:41:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:42:16] *** zinid has left the room
[21:42:25] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[21:45:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:45:48] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:47:35] *** boothj5 has joined the room
[21:52:25] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[21:53:02] *** boothj5 has left the room
[21:53:37] *** nyco has left the room
[21:53:41] *** zinid has joined the room
[21:53:47] *** boothj5 has joined the room
[21:54:42] *** nyco shows as "online"
[22:03:24] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:03:30] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:05:39] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[22:06:21] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[22:08:10] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:08:15] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[22:09:17] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:09:20] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[22:14:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:14:25] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:19:18] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:28:35] *** efrit has joined the room
[22:29:18] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:31:49] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:35:09] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:35:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:36:41] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:37:26] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[22:39:44] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[22:41:33] *** Alex has left the room
[22:44:57] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:48:06] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:50:05] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:50:16] *** daniel has joined the room
[22:51:05] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:55:00] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:59:07] *** SamWhited has left the room
[22:59:31] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:00:31] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:05:08] *** valo has left the room
[23:06:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:10:31] *** lovetox shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:11:21] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[23:12:27] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:13:22] *** lovetox has left the room
[23:14:35] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[23:18:25] <Dave Cridland> Link Mauve, Actually, IMAP is 8-bit clean, and ESMTP normally is with the extension. Both can also transfer binary (instead of, say, UTF-8) with (rare) extensions.
[23:18:57] <Dave Cridland> There's also a bunch of extensions to "Always UTF-8", roughly, as part of EAI, as I recall.
[23:20:44] *** uc has joined the room
[23:21:21] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[23:24:14] <Link Mauve> I know pretty much nothing about IMAP, this was about plain SMTP.
[23:24:19] <Link Mauve> Thanks. :)
[23:24:22] <Link Mauve> I’ll read about them.
[23:37:41] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[23:42:26] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:43:53] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[23:44:59] *** daniel has left the room
[23:52:26] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:54:09] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[23:58:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:58:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"