XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2018-02-08


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  105. intosi We lost a few more things in /extensions, such as e.g. gps_datum.html (referenced from XEP-0080)
  106. intosi I'm not quite sure where we should put such files.
  107. intosi Being in /extensions, the xeps repo would be a logical choice, but it feels a little like pollution as well.
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  125. intosi If anyone cares to review my minor change to the xeps repo, that would be so kind: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/584
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  129. jonasw intosi: editors are going to do a batch of work done tonight. if its fine, we'll take care of it then
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  134. intosi FWIW, it's only adding building of refs to the Dockerfile, not editorial work really.
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  136. intosi But tonight is fine.
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  148. Ge0rG vanitasvitae: so you implemented 0392 in Java? https://github.com/pfleidi/yaxim/blob/master/src/org/yaxim/androidclient/util/XEP0392Helper.java
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  156. vanitasvitae Ge0rG: yep
  157. vanitasvitae I'm still missing the mix-colors part and the inversion stuff
  158. Ge0rG vanitasvitae: feel free to steal from me, whatever you need
  159. Ge0rG vanitasvitae: should've asked before :D
  160. vanitasvitae Ge0rG: nah, I like the challenge
  161. vanitasvitae Also the GPL is incompatible to Apache2 ;)
  162. Flow well if the copyright holder gives you the permission to use his code under a different licence, then it is fine
  163. zinid `static final double`
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  168. jonasw pep., I also thought about the white-male-thing when remotely participating. I have no idea how to fix that though.
  169. Ge0rG jonasw: apply a color filter to the webex video stream.
  170. jonasw given that the IM mission is kinda bringing *people* together, I’m not sure if or if not the (however true it may be) "women prefer 'people' over 'gadgets'" argument should be applicable to the situation. It could be very applicable, because communication is very much about people, but on the other hand, the XSF is a technical standards organization. The potential JSF would probably be more the realm of people who care about the effects of IM more than the means.
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  172. jonasw also, disclaimer: if I make statements anyone finds offensive, *please* point it out to me, publicly or private.
  173. zinid what was that about? I'm lost
  174. zinid is reading the spam manifesto
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  176. pep. zinid: the paste I linked yesterday
  177. zinid pep., ah, ok
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  190. Ge0rG Wow. What the f***ing f***! Four server admins signed in the last 4 hours.
  191. zinid is it too much or too little?
  192. Ge0rG zinid: I'm amazed!
  193. SaltyBones signed in where?
  194. zinid SaltyBones, https://github.com/ge0rg/jabber-spam-fighting-manifesto
  195. zinid Ge0rG, I asked current jabber.ru admin, he should sign soon too
  196. Ge0rG zinid: thanks very much!
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  199. SaltyBones Hm. I am unhappy about the Tor discrimination.
  200. SaltyBones I would prefer if this said everybody has to fill out a captcha and not discriminate.
  201. Ge0rG SaltyBones: I'm unhappy with it too. Do you have a really better proposal?
  202. SaltyBones What's wrong with captchas?
  203. Ge0rG SaltyBones: what's *not* wrong with captchas?
  204. SaltyBones They work?
  205. zinid Ge0rG, maybe write something like "care should be taken for Tor exit nodes" or something like that
  206. zinid Ge0rG, maybe write something like "care should be taken for Tor exit nodes"
  207. zinid not a big fan of Tor though
  208. Ge0rG zinid: "Monitor or block registrations from IP addresses with bad reputation (open proxy servers, Tor exit nodes)" means the same as what you wrote.
  209. zinid Ah,
  210. zinid ok, then I don't see the problem
  211. Ge0rG zinid: did you read the manifesto? ;)
  212. zinid Ge0rG, yeah, I just trusted SaltyBones :) I don't remember it word by word
  213. SaltyBones Well, I think this encourages blocking of Tor...
  214. zinid and I don't see discrimination in this case: when we say that care should be taken when using knife we don't discriminate knives
  215. SaltyBones It says "monitor or block" . . . . . . or do something else
  216. SaltyBones And I think monitoring and blocking are shitty and I only want the something else. :)
  217. Ge0rG SaltyBones: 99% of logins from Tor are spammers. 5% from non-Tor are spammers. What now?
  218. zinid I banned all exit nodes on jabber.ru (when I used to be an admin there)
  219. zinid just spam and flood
  220. zinid those, who want to stay anonymous should buy 5$ service like digitalocean
  221. Ge0rG zinid: you can't buy things anonymously
  222. SaltyBones Just say "ask for captchas or similar" and leave out the part where you suggest blocking exit nodes per se.
  223. zinid Ge0rG, you cannot use internet anonymously
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  225. Seve/SouL Well, you can always use your neighbour's wifi :D
  226. SaltyBones As an occasional Tor user I can tell you that it makes Tor a lot less valuable if it gets blocked everywhere and I think Tor goes a long way towards online anonymity.
  227. zinid Seve/SouL, then you don't need Tor ;)
  228. vanitasvitae I'd prefer something like "apply stricter spam rule on tor users"
  229. Ge0rG vanitasvitae: isn't that what the manifesto says?
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  232. SaltyBones Ge0rG, just leave out the part about blocking
  233. zinid drama :)
  234. SaltyBones No drama, just discussing
  235. Ge0rG -* Monitor or block registrations from IP addresses with bad reputation +* Monitor and review registrations from IP addresses with bad reputation
  236. zinid "Monitor and review" are virtually the same actions /bikeshedding
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  238. Seve/SouL Ge0rG, why not Monitor and take corresponding actions?
  239. Seve/SouL Well, whatever.
  240. Ge0rG zinid: monitoring is often an automatic process, but review is manual
  241. zinid Ge0rG, as you wish
  242. mathieui 11:53:27 SaltyBones> As an occasional Tor user I can tell you that it makes Tor a lot less valuable if it gets blocked everywhere and I think Tor goes a long way towards online anonymity. → as an occasional tor user, and a relay operator, but also an XMPP server operator, I think blocking registrations from tor is often necessary
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  277. SaltyBones Or to stick with Georg's presentation: general message routing doom :)
  278. Ge0rG XMPP doom!
  279. edhelas Doom Over XMPP
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  281. Ge0rG was slightly motivated to post an XHTML-IM picture of a libcaca output of Doom I
  282. edhelas XHTML-IM is so 2017
  283. Ge0rG Doom I is so 1993.
  284. jonasw I played Doom I a bit on a portable audio player from 2004.
  285. edhelas jonasw Rockbox :p
  286. jonasw edhelas, exactly.
  287. edhelas http://cdn.instructables.com/FZQ/U0RN/FAKWPHHK/FZQU0RNFAKWPHHK.MEDIUM.jpg
  288. Ge0rG I played Monkey Island II on an Xbox 1, when it was still cool.
  289. jonasw daniel, okay, so I probably wasn’t there: *my* client would do weird things at least :D
  290. jonasw (I’m pretty sure)
  291. jonasw (but that can be fixed)
  292. jonasw (re vcard presence avatar muc room thing)
  293. daniel oh really? weird
  294. zinid lol
  295. zinid anyway, I will check briefly some clients against ejabberd before commiting
  296. jonasw let’s give it a test…
  297. jonasw oh wait
  298. jonasw if the presence does *not* contain a MUC User element, we’re fine
  299. jonasw and I don’t see a reason why it should
  300. jonasw so that’s probably fine
  301. daniel what happens though?
  302. daniel will it create a user with a null username?
  303. jonasw no
  304. jonasw if it doesn’t contain a <x xmlns="that muc user namespace"/> thing, it is ignored entirely
  305. jonasw (it’ll probably log something about an unhandled presence, at worst)
  306. daniel i meant if it would include that tag
  307. jonasw oh, that would probably lead to quite a bit of breakage
  308. jonasw either null user name, or some crash
  309. daniel i see.
  310. daniel probably fix that no matter what :-)
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  312. jonasw the MUC code itself would probably deal with it just fine, but everything which expects a string for a nickname down the stream/road would be... surprised
  313. jonasw yeah, explicitly ignoring bare-JID presences for occupant handling is probably a good idea.
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  315. jonasw there you go: https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/commit/5df66eeafe24047d55d3d6b9b849538674f121e5
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  321. pep. Ge0rG, SaltyBones, fwiw, I was talking with a freenode person at fosdem, and she said they were trying to study the "tor issue". ATM they allow tor users if they register first, with registration not via tor iiuc (which defeats the point of tor). She told me they were discussing with tor people to look for ways to solve this
  322. Ge0rG pep.: I'm sure there is no solution to this problem.
  323. pep. Yeah I'm not really optimistic either
  324. SaltyBones ...captchas? :)
  325. Ge0rG stfupchas.
  326. SaltyBones Be nice!
  327. SaltyBones Seriously, what's wrong with captchas?
  328. jonasw they don’t work
  329. jonasw they are an additional step, which always sucks when competing with WhatsDown
  330. SaltyBones Don't work how?
  331. jonasw they are not efficient is what I meant to say
  332. pep. SaltyBones, not fond of captchas either, or rather, google-owned captchas, which is the biggest implementation out there. (And probably not any other third-party owned impl. either anyway)
  333. jonasw and they are a problem with accessibility
  334. Ge0rG SaltyBones: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2017/11/captchas-dont-prove-youre-human-they-prove-youre-american/
  335. pep. Also often out-of-band, which is annoying
  336. SaltyBones Their whole point is to be non-efficient and if you want to compete with whatsapp you can just use phone authentication but freenode via tor is a different use case.
  337. jonasw SaltyBones, no, with efficient I mean efficient at blocking spam
  338. jonasw or abuse in general
  339. jonasw when considering the cost to UX and accessibility
  340. jonasw (or, if you’re using google, data privacy)
  341. SaltyBones Yes, but if I want to use Tor from freenode I would rather fill out captchas for 3 minutes instead of just being told "no".
  342. SaltyBones Actually if you use Tor you get so many captchas you probably spend more than 10 minutes a day on it. :p
  343. pep. I'd prefer they came up with another solution
  344. SaltyBones pep., So would I but I would prefer this solution to statements like "a solution does not exist". :)
  345. pep. Maybe easy to deploy but as jonasw said, and I as well, it breaks lots of things
  346. SaltyBones It doesn't break them more than breaking them on purpose though...
  347. pep. sorry I didn't catch this
  348. SaltyBones I mean I currently cannot access freenode from my Tor VM, which is more broken than a captcha.
  349. zinid > Actually if you use Tor you get so many captchas you probably spend more than 10 minutes a day on it. :p True. I once tried to use Tor and it was funny experience, never want to repeat it again 😁
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  351. SaltyBones Yeah, it's awful...
  352. SaltyBones That's why they distribute these "f*ck cloudflare" stickers. ;)
  353. Ge0rG SaltyBones: I can understand the position cloudflare is taking.
  354. SaltyBones sure, I can too :)
  355. SamWhited I do not speak for the company, etc. But for what it's worth they have tried really hard to ensure Tor users had a good experience by trying to get buy in from the IETF and W3C on a standard thing that could be done instead. There's an open source extension that implements it and bypasses the captchas.
  356. SamWhited https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-supports-privacy-pass/
  357. SaltyBones :o
  358. SaltyBones I will have to try this.
  359. jonasw I’ll first try to figure out how that works
  360. jonasw "magically identifies you without enabling tracking" sounds too good to be true
  361. SaltyBones Anyway, yes that's another way to solve the problem. just pay in proof-of-work would also be one.
  362. SaltyBones jonasw, it's pretty straightforward crypto magic ;)
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  365. Ge0rG SaltyBones: pay in proof-of-work is still not a solution to the spam problem.
  366. jonasw https://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt
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  368. SaltyBones Ge0rG, depends I would say
  369. Ge0rG SaltyBones: nope.
  370. Ge0rG SaltyBones: the efficiency difference in PoW between mobile clients and custom ASICs is so horribly high, you can't make any sensible abuse-prevention scheme on top
  371. SaltyBones That's not true. There are plenty of memory-hard hashes that are hard to do in cheap ASICs and even if you assume that they exist you have to consider the expected worth of sending a message which is painfully low for most spam schemes.
  372. jonasw even the difference between a desktop/server CPU and a mobile CPU is enough to make it break, I think
  373. jonasw also, memory-hard on mobile won’t fly either, SaltyBones
  374. jonasw (for certain values of "memory-hard")
  375. Ge0rG scrypt is a memory-hard PoW scheme and there are ASICs for it.
  376. jonasw (but those values might be lower for ASICs than for mobile CPUs; GPUs and mobile CPUs is a different story though, now that we’ve reached GPUs with several GiB of memory)
  377. SaltyBones I don't want to play devil's advocate, I generally agree with you.
  378. Ge0rG SaltyBones: when doing PoW on my smartphone, I'm manually implementing things in Java bytecode.
  379. jonasw why would you do that in java bytecode?
  380. SaltyBones I'm just saying for many spam schemes the return on value is so low people wouldn't even bother implementing the PoW code. Maybe this assumption is wrong.
  381. jonasw SaltyBones, "spamsolutions.txt" seems to suggest that you’re wrong, because one of the reasons is:> ( ) Extreme profitability of spam
  382. jonasw SaltyBones, "spamsolutions.txt" seems to suggest that you’re wrong, because one of the reasons is: > ( ) Extreme profitability of spam
  383. Ge0rG MR 20171128T16:55:45Z 000 <Ge0rG>  Okay, just to get some numbers. "I managed to pull around 5.6KHash/sec on my Nexus 7 with all fou r threads." from https://rumorscity.com/2014/01/07/how-to-mine-litecoin-with-android/ MR 20171128T16:56:10Z 000 <Ge0rG>  So we are at ~20 KHashes for a first-contact MR 20171128T17:01:02Z 000 <Ge0rG>  you can rent 500MH/s for three hours for ~3USD. That accounts for 100 Millions spam messages. MR 20171128T17:01:26Z 000 <Ge0rG>  if you price a single spam message at 20KH scrypt.
  384. jonasw now I could sift through the spam I get to check how much they charge for 10k XMPP spam message to see if that works out ;-)
  385. Ge0rG jonasw: 20$ for 100k JIDs or so.
  386. jonasw so that’s probbaly well within their capabilities
  387. SaltyBones TIL...
  388. SaltyBones I guess I have underestimated the amount of morons who fall for spam by several orders of magnitude...
  389. jonasw I also love the "philosophical objection": > ( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough
  390. zinid Ge0rG: where can I get paid for sending spam?
  391. zinid Sounds interesting
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  393. daniel zinid: send spam advertising your services
  394. SaltyBones INDEED :D
  395. Ge0rG zinid: I'll tell you for 200$
  396. jonasw ha
  397. SaltyBones yeah, maybe it's a ponzi scheme
  398. SaltyBones send spam for money to find customers who will pay you for sending spam
  399. jonasw SaltyBones, actually, that’s what has been happening a few months ago for a few months, now they seem to have found customers who actually want to spam something >.>
  400. zinid SaltyBones: blockchain 🤔
  401. jonasw (aside from the carding spam which has been there forever)
  402. Ge0rG SaltyBones: it kind of is. "we will scan your forum for jids for $20, and use those jids to send your spam"
  403. SaltyBones zinid, it's about time we had a dedicated blockchain emoji ;)
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  405. SaltyBones ⏹️⛓️
  406. jonasw ha.
  407. daniel SaltyBones: but with a zwj in between
  408. SaltyBones ah what? O_o
  409. Ge0rG a SJW.
  410. daniel Unicode humor
  411. Ge0rG or a jwz?
  412. SaltyBones I don't get it. :(
  413. Ge0rG SaltyBones: https://emojipedia.org/zero-width-joiner/
  414. daniel My alternative carrier path is to remake the emoji movie with more weird unicode humor
  415. daniel Fewer people will get it. But it will actually be funny
  416. jonasw "career"?
  417. Ge0rG daniel: did you actually watch that movie?
  418. daniel That one
  419. daniel > daniel: did you actually watch that movie? LOL no
  420. Ge0rG Phew, I was worried for a moment.
  421. daniel Apparently there is a joke about how there is no use case for the eggplant emoji. Which probably tells you a lot about the writers
  422. SaltyBones Ge0rG, I'm having a seizure just reading this crap.
  423. jonasw daniel, oh dear
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  425. Ge0rG SaltyBones: And it's not even the worst thing about Unicode Emoji.
  426. jonasw I’m just sad that there’s no Hydnora visseri emoji. it’d go great with an eggplant.
  427. ralphm While I'm around, I am still in a company meeting and might not be able to follow the discussion here.
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  429. jonasw ralphm, this discussion shoudl also probably be in the off-topic room, sorry.
  430. Ge0rG daniel: you mean the aubergine emoji?
  431. nyco and...
  432. nyco bang?
  433. Ge0rG SaltyBones: http://unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/specs/ldml/tr35-general.html#SynthesizingNames will make you puke without end.
  434. Guus Time for a board meeting
  435. Guus hi nyco
  436. nyco hi Guus
  437. nyco (got a stable network this time, we'll see with the clients)
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  439. jonasw right, board time
  440. Guus Ralphm just mentioned he was busy-ish... Mattj announced that he was likely unavailable now. Martin?
  441. Guus Martin appears offline to me
  442. nyco wel...
  443. nyco on my side, just about the board prios meeting, we finally chose not to do it around summit/fosdem
  444. nyco I'll reschedule
  445. Guus Thanks. As it's just you and me being active now, I propose that we skip this meeting, and try again next week.
  446. nyco archiving: https://trello.com/c/vFYiyf9I/300-summit-sponsoring https://trello.com/c/8XwcLKzf/301-summit-dinner
  447. Dave Cridland Martin's on unexpected childcare duty, sorry!
  448. nyco thx Dave Cridland
  449. Guus ah, ok. A random child, or his? ;)
  450. nyco on the big things to do, we got the prios, but also funding/financing and survey
  451. nyco also bus factor on bank account
  452. Guus True, but I don't want to discuss that with just the two of us here.
  453. nyco agree
  454. nyco bye!
  455. nyco thx
  456. Guus see you next week :)
  457. Guus I'll send off a quick mail for posterity
  458. nyco Thx
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  475. Dave Cridland SamWhited, I think you meant XEP-0137 is Draft, not XEP-0159.
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  477. SamWhited err, oops, yes
  478. SamWhited The council card is right anyways
  479. SamWhited Unrelated, https://clojuriststogether.org/ just distributed its first funding round for Clojure projects that are important to the community. I wonder if a similar model would work for the XMPP community, or if we would never end up with enough people to make it sustainable.
  480. SamWhited /cc Ge0rG
  481. zinid has left
  482. Ge0rG I had some trouble parsing that domain name into words.
  483. SamWhited Still better than expertsexchange.com (which actually used to be their domain)
  484. Ge0rG SamWhited: it looks like a nice thing, and I'd love to direct some money in the direction of JC (and then to you for auditing it ;))
  485. SamWhited I do not have the qualifications to reasonably audit code, but thanks for your confidence :)
  486. waqas has joined
  487. SamWhited They appear to be working with an existing non-profit so that people can make donations tax deductable without them having to do all the paperwork and legal nonsense, that's rather nice.
  488. Ge0rG SamWhited: but you have the qualifications to find XSS, which is a good first step
  489. SamWhited "qualifications" == "basic testing"
  490. Ge0rG SamWhited: is that a non-profit we can apply at as well?
  491. SamWhited or "copy-pasting"
  492. Ge0rG JabberistsTogether.com now!
  493. SamWhited Ge0rG: the SFC; alternatively, it could be under the XSF umbrella presumably
  494. Zash Go for it
  495. Ge0rG SamWhited: the XSF barely has the time to do its own work.
  496. SamWhited Ge0rG: it doesn't have to do anything but file taxes; the conservancy isn't doing work, just being the official business so that the fund can be tax exempt
  497. SamWhited Although, I say that, presumably they have lawyers who know this stuff and we don't, so maybe something else would be better
  498. SamWhited Anyways, it's an interesting structure and I think it's a cool idea… now someone else do it!
  499. Ge0rG SamWhited: I have no strong opinions on that, just that I have zero knowledge of US-based non-profits
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  501. jonasw Ge0rG, to direct money to JC, you can simply use liberapay or patreon, as we learned yesterday or so
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  506. Ge0rG jonasw: but I want to direct other people's money
  507. jonasw hah
  508. jonasw I would want that too, but I’m not sure I’d be so selfless here ;-)
  509. zinid Damn, I barely can follow the "manifesto discussion", yet, you guys are capable of writing a wall of text, lol
  510. Guus just make everyone sign up and pledge 3$ / month
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  513. Guus it has to start somewhere, right?
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  515. Guus heck, let everyone pledge half the amount that they spend on <luxury item x> in the same period
  516. jonasw Guus, okay, find an X and I’ll consider it
  517. klaassen has left
  518. Guus jonasw: coffee? fastfood? games on your smartphone? candy?
  519. Zash Obscure cheese only produced in a small village near where I live?
  520. jonasw I don’t drink coffee, I avoid fastfood, I don’t have any paid apps on my smartphone. You might’ve got me with candy though.
  521. Guus comics? board games? legos?
  522. jonasw do components for hobbyprojects count?
  523. Guus movie tickets? concert tickets?
  524. jonasw do components for hobby projects count?
  525. Zash Look at mr rich over here
  526. Guus whatever you want counts :)
  527. jonasw if so, I’m screwed ;-)
  528. Guus I'm just trying to make the point that if you're happy to spend money on <luxury item x>, spending some of it on XMPP is probably OK for you too. If it's not, it's not - that's up to you - but this logic works for myself :)
  529. Ge0rG a hobby is by definition something that can consume infinite money
  530. jonasw Guus, I have a similar opinion in general, but I like to believe that due to my own contributions to XMPP software I’m exempt from that. You’re being a counter-example here and that’s making me uncomfortable ;-)
  531. zinid Ge0rG, what if your job is your hobby? :)
  532. Zash Then you are doomed
  533. jonasw or lucky, depends.
  534. Ge0rG zinid: it's not possible. it's a job if you end up with more money than before, and a hobby if it takes money
  535. jonasw because then you’ve actually one of those rare hobbies which actually pay more than they cost you :<
  536. Guus jonasw: it's really up to you, and no-one else- to tell you if you're comfortable with donating any amount of money or time.
  537. Zash Ge0rG: Pretty sure the tax rules are more complicated than that
  538. Guus I for one am insanely grateful for all the time that you're putting in.
  539. zinid Ge0rG, ah, so this is a question of definition, ok
  540. jonasw Guus, I know that, it just starts some thought process.
  541. efrit has left
  542. Ge0rG zinid: yes. In the end, you have a great job.
  543. Guus jonasw, I'm personally trying to avoid to think along the lines of: "I'm doing this so that I don't have to do that", but rather "what type/amount of resources am I willing to spend on this?"
  544. jonasw Guus, that makes sense
  545. jonasw hm
  546. jonasw speaking of things I do
  547. jonasw I put some XEP into last call and forgot to send that email
  548. jonasw I probably have to move the LC end date by a few days now
  549. Ge0rG urgently needs to update PARS
  550. Guus rides into the sunset (which sounds more romantic than "going to pick up the kids from daycare")
  551. Ge0rG does another half hour of web app pentesting.
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  556. intosi *cooks some Brussels sprouts*
  557. jonasw cooking sounds like a great idea actually
  558. intosi Thought so :)
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  564. Ge0rG jonasw: Why another LC on 280?
  565. jonasw Ge0rG, council switch
  566. Ge0rG -1s
  567. jonasw feel free :D
  568. jonasw I’m just the mechanic in this case
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  585. edhelas :)
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  593. zinid Ge0rG, so how will we blocklist spam servers?
  594. zinid I like the idea of test day, so we probably need some mechanism by then
  595. Holger blockchain
  596. Holger (sorry)
  597. daniel has left
  598. zinid you're not serious :(
  599. Holger IIRC jonasw suggested a DNS blacklist maintained by him and ... others.
  600. zinid yeah, I heard about DNS blacklist, who will maintain it? :)
  601. zinid probably "him and others" :)
  602. Holger I think he was asking for volunteers but nobody responded.
  603. Holger Not sure.
  604. Holger hands the microphone over to jonasw.
  605. jonasw Holger: I will
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  607. Ge0rG zinid: prosody can firewall all traffic from a list of domains placed in a http or local text file.
  608. Ge0rG zinid: tell me your domain and I'll blacklist you
  609. daniel has left
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  612. zinid yeah, because local text files is a best source of distributed data
  613. zinid Ge0rG, the domain is yax.im
  614. Zash mod_firewall can fetch lists via http (periodically)
  615. zinid Zash, these are details, the question is who will maintain the list?
  616. zinid who will add entries?
  617. zinid who will process deletion requests?
  618. Zash Someone else™
  619. Zash But in all seriousness, that's a thing that wound need figuring out
  620. zinid we haven't figured out enough yet?
  621. Zash I'm wondering if we could partner with any of the existing spam list orgs
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  623. zinid last time I operated an email server a decade ago, so I don't even know how it's done now and who manages that
  624. daniel has joined
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  626. jonasw Zash, spamhaus is doof, sorbs seem to be reasonable at least
  627. zinid doof?
  628. Ge0rG zinid: nice try.
  629. Zash Department of ooooo fffff?
  630. jonasw zinid, probably not an adjective which is used frequently by Till Lindemann. it means dumb or silly or something in that order.
  631. zinid Ge0rG, you have more stars than signers btw
  632. Ge0rG zinid: I feel like Donald Trump!
  633. Zash Something something russian bots?
  634. andy has left
  635. Ge0rG Zash: more stars than supporters
  636. waqas has left
  637. Ge0rG zinid: ping
  638. zinid yeah, with some german bots
  639. zinid .
  640. jjrh has left
  641. zinid oh
  642. zinid it works finally
  643. zinid just was very slow
  644. jonasw zinid, I starred, but I won’t sign, because I don’t operate a public server
  645. jonasw I think that makes sense
  646. zinid jonasw, yeah, me too
  647. zinid I'm just joking
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  664. zinid ping
  665. zinid what's wrong with this conference?
  666. jonasw ping
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  675. jonasw what
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  678. zinid who's there?
  679. Zash What the <--- jonasw has left the room (the MUC server is not responding)
  680. Zash Bunneh: ping muc.xmpp.org
  681. Bunneh Zash: Pong from muc.xmpp.org in 0.144 seconds
  682. jonasw Zash, yeah, poezio wasn’t happy
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  734. SamWhited I sent a mail to the list with an inline image but it does not appear to have arrived. I don't see it in the pending moderation queue and it doesn't appear to match any of the content type rejection rules (it's just a png). Any idea where it might have gone?
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  739. SamWhited nevermind, just being *really* slow today.
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  762. Zash SamWhited: Hm, that graph could do with some colors on the nodes for states...
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