Saturday, February 10, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[05:42:53] <moparisthebest> zinid: so e2e isn't important but muc Avatar is?
[05:43:10] <moparisthebest> Sorry I'm just trolling :)
[05:44:00] <moparisthebest> That's the good thing about open protocol and community, everyone can work on what's important to them :)
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[06:04:37] <zinid> marc, yes
[06:05:44] <zinid> moparisthebest, and what are you working on? 🙂
[06:07:18] <moparisthebest> zinid: my most recent xmpp related thing? Client side components/gateways
[06:07:34] <zinid> moparisthebest, where is your e2ee implementations?
[06:08:22] <moparisthebest> Omemo and pgp work fine :)
[06:08:45] <zinid> yeah, tell that 1000 times and you this will become truth
[06:12:08] <Zash> You should read Daves membership reapplication
[06:14:12] <zinid> damn, there is a wall of text again
[06:14:23] <zinid> well, that's Dave 🙂
[06:15:57] <zinid> ok, I read briefly and understood nothing
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[06:20:47] <moparisthebest> Countless e2e xeps?
[06:21:21] <moparisthebest> I only know of 3, 2 of which are pgp and not forward secret
[06:21:41] <moparisthebest> I guess you could add OTR in there
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[06:22:22] <zinid> so if a protocol has a drawback then it's not counted as a protocol?
[06:22:50] <zinid> (I'm not even starting to debate lacking forward secrecy is a drawback)
[06:23:06] <moparisthebest> No I didn't think otr was a xep
[06:23:21] <zinid> moparisthebest, there is also I-D about new e2eee
[06:23:33] <moparisthebest> It's just text encryption people sometimes use over XMPP
[06:23:55] <zinid> so we have omemo, otr, pgp, and that new I-D
[06:23:59] <zinid> four xeps
[06:24:09] <zinid> damn, we probably even have less for file transfer 😉
[06:24:18] <moparisthebest> 2 different pgp xeps
[06:24:24] <zinid> 5 xeps
[06:25:25] <Zash> esessions?
[06:25:37] <moparisthebest> Still way less than countless and almost half are not forward secret
[06:25:50] <moparisthebest> Never heard of them
[06:27:20] <daniel> I guess you didn't use gajim then until three years ago or so
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[06:27:57] <moparisthebest> 2013 I think
[06:28:16] <moparisthebest> I used pgp then
[06:31:30] <zinid> moparisthebest, just implement the protocol where you exchange messages via direct p2p jingle sessions, and call it a day
[06:31:51] <zinid> I think you can install a session via jingle and then use that server-less protocol
[06:32:03] <zinid> what xep is that...
[06:32:07] <Zash> xtls?
[06:32:46] <zinid> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0174.html
[06:33:57] <moparisthebest> zinid: that's tox and eats battery
[06:34:21] <zinid> who cares? nobody will use it except you and a few other nerds
[06:34:24] <moparisthebest> Well and that would also leak your IP
[06:34:26] <zinid> you can live with that I think
[06:34:33] <moparisthebest> Tox doesn't do that
[06:34:43] <zinid> doesn't do what?
[06:34:49] <moparisthebest> I can also live with pgp or omemo
[06:35:08] <zinid> moparisthebest, the problem is that others cannot leave with omemo
[06:35:10] <moparisthebest> Tox does stuff like tor to avoid leaking your IP
[06:35:23] <moparisthebest> Then don't turn it on?
[06:35:46] <zinid> moparisthebest, I didn't turn it on, but I see other XEPs start to suffer from this OMEMO shit
[06:36:19] <moparisthebest> One could say this vcard shit is spreading too
[06:36:23] <zinid> right now we cannot put any data outside <body/> element, because it's "insecure" and "metadata leaks"
[06:36:46] <zinid> moparisthebest, vcards forbid me to attach elements to stanzas?
[06:37:38] <moparisthebest> The new pgp xep fixes that
[06:37:49] <moparisthebest> And in a way omemo can reuse
[06:37:50] <zinid> fixes what?
[06:38:09] <moparisthebest> It encrypts entire XML sections
[06:38:11] <zinid> so daniel will implement SIMS finally?
[06:38:18] <moparisthebest> Not just body
[06:38:44] <Zash> How do you turn OMEMO off?
[06:39:03] <moparisthebest> Isn't it off by default
[06:39:11] <zinid> Zash, good question, I don't think it's possible to disable OMEMO for incoming messages
[06:39:16] <zinid> at least in conversations
[06:39:35] <Zash> Pretty sure all the clients will just publish keys and stuff without asking first
[06:39:50] <zinid> moparisthebest, it's enabled in Conversations, you still can get incoming messages even if you don't press that "lock icon"
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[13:33:33] <rion> is there any xep to have "message displayed" event? it was in xep-0022 but then it was obsoleted.
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[13:37:21] <Flow> rion, "displayed" is considered as an bad idea by some (incl. me) for a federated network, but we have delivery receipts
[13:37:53] <Flow> and it's trivial to build a "message displayed" mechanism for your internal usage
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[13:38:56] <daniel> rion: xep333
[13:39:12] <Zash> chat states, message receipts, 333
[13:40:44] <rion> yeah 333 seems to exact match :)
[13:40:54] <rion> thanks
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[13:41:29] <Flow> daniel, wasn't xep333 the one you wanted to take care of?
[13:41:44] <daniel> Flow: yes
[13:42:45] <Flow> daniel, what was the issue with it again?
[13:43:33] <daniel> No major issues. I wanted to clarify it a bit and change some of the rules
[13:44:19] <jonasw> I read that as "nothing. just everything" :-). good morning everyone.
[13:44:24] <jonasw> eh, not even morning anymore
[13:46:03] <Flow> daniel, ahh ok, i thought there where some major issues with it
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[22:11:36] <Seve/SouL> Do you guys know which XMPP server do they use?
[22:11:37] <Seve/SouL> https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/postmortem-of-service-outage-at-3-4m-ccu
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[22:28:28] <edhelas> If I'm not wrong it was a tuned ejabberd
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[23:58:41] <SamWhited> I was told MongooseIM at some point