-
jonasw
fun
-
jonasw
always reassuring when software foundations partner with media
-
Ge0rG
https://medium.com/processone/eve-online-chat-is-moving-to-ejabberd-8e73d40fa887
-
Guus
Nice - I thought they already were.
-
jonasw
cool
- jonasw tips hat to the ejabberd folks
-
jonasw
well done :)
-
Ge0rG
This is something that should be promoted via our social media team.
-
Zash
COMM team, assemble!
-
jonasw
indeed
-
Seve
We were already on it :)
-
Kev
Ge0rG: More information on this is coming next week. I've been in touch with the devs and generally offered to be helpful if I can be.
-
jonasw
\o/
-
Ge0rG
Kev: that's great. We still should promote it now. We could also offer them a place on our own blog instead of medium?
-
Guus
Ge0rG, why are you not on the comm wt?
-
Kev
Presumably we'd promote the source article (linked here the other day), rather than the P1 repost.
-
jonasw
I didn’t click the source article, somehow I thought from the URL that they were moving away from XMPP and I wanted to avoid making myself sad
-
Ge0rG
Kev: what's wrong with promoting both?
-
Kev
Nope. Never used XMPP before, now they are going to. Which is cool.
-
Zash
Hm, wasn't some large-ish game already using xmpp for chat?
-
jonasw
roit?✎ -
jonasw
leage of legends? ✏
-
Ge0rG
Zash: Riot Games
-
Zash
Ah, so it was another 3 letter acronym
-
jonasw
lol (pun intended)
-
Ge0rG
So who's responsible for @xmpp on twitter?
-
Kev
Board, ultimately.
-
Kev
But I imagine they'll delegate to the commteam now.
-
Ge0rG
I'd really like to get the two articles twittered about. Something like "Congratulations to EVE Online for joining the robust and scalable XMPP ecosystem! <link1> <link2>"
-
marc
jonasw, I can push a change for xep401 to use namespaces for the nodes, shall I?
-
marc
Ge0rG, can you think of a way how we can properly manage interoperability between XEP-0158 and XEP-0401?
-
marc
Just using both fields in the IBR form would be my proposal :D
-
Ge0rG
marc: aren't there ibr captchas already?
-
Ge0rG
That would be an argument pro data forms indeed.
-
marc
Ge0rG, XEP-0158 is IBR captcha
-
marc
Ge0rG, yes, it would be "easy" to combine both
-
Ge0rG
the _right_ thing would probably be to integrate the captcha into the form sent back when you attempt to make an invitation
-
marc
Ge0rG, good point
-
marc
Ge0rG, can you post that on the ML?
-
Ge0rG
marc: no. It will end up in pointless debate about how to make the onboarding harder.
-
Ge0rG
marc: I don't have captchas on my server and I'm perfectly able to kill off spam accounts.
-
marc
Ge0rG, okay, so you don't like the CAPTCHA idea?
-
Ge0rG
captchas are a pointless insult to your users.
-
Ge0rG
I could live with captchas to external users sending me spam, but only as a workaround for the inability to delay stanzas in mod_firewall
-
marc
Ge0rG, okay, actually I don't care about botnets and spam because I run a private service - you and the other XSF guys should know what's best
-
Ge0rG
marc: "the other XSF guys" might disagree with me, but I don't care.
-
marc
Ge0rG, doesn't sound like we can make fast progress with this XEP ;)
-
Ge0rG
marc: the main question that remains for me is: data forms or ad-hoc ibr extension?
-
Ge0rG
So far, only Jonas reacted to my rationale
-
Ge0rG
I wish for some more feedback from the council members that raised concerns with ad-hoc ibr
-
marc
Ge0rG, okay, to me it looks like data forms are the best solution but I don't have much experience with the XMPP internals
-
marc
And I thought the IBR data forms are exactly for such extensions
-
Ge0rG
marc: data forms are well suited to ask the user questions
-
marc
Ge0rG, actually I don't get why you're against data forms
-
Ge0rG
Less so to mix hidden and visible fields
-
marc
Ge0rG, okay, I'll stop working on the implementation until I get some feedback from @standards how we proceed
-
marc
Unfortunately, from next month on I won't have that much time
-
Ge0rG
marc: I wonder how big the needed changes are afterwards
-
marc
Ge0rG: depends on how the general feedback is
-
marc
There is no feedback at all except from Jonas and you
-
Ge0rG
marc: I mean to switch between ibr and data forms
-
marc
Ge0rG: not that big... I already changed it ;)
-
Ge0rG
marc: then you can just go on implementing everything else
-
Zash
{jabber🇮🇶register}token?
-
Zash
argh
-
Ge0rG
🤣
-
jonasw
marc: yes for the node name change
-
Ge0rG
Zash: I've put an updated version of the plugin online
-
Zash
Inventing new elements in an existing namespace seems weird to me
-
Zash
"online"
-
Ge0rG
Zash: same URL
-
Zash
Ge0rG: Where did you publish this?
-
Ge0rG
Zash: just search in your history for the random pastebin id
-
Zash
\o/
-
marc
jonasw: okay
-
Guus
but yeah, first order of business is to make sure that the certificates that are used actually cover the server host name
-
Guus
(which is why I got started working on certs in Openfire in the first place)
-
Guus
I'm thinking that you locally have both a proper certificate, and match your xmpp domain name to your server FQDN.
-
Guus
that saves you some trouble :)
-
Guus
hey, what?
-
Guus
hargh, my tabs changed :)
-
Guus
disregard my last text :)
-
Ge0rG
Certificate verification is an arcane witchcraft. Don't get into it if you want to prevent embarrassing vulnerabilities
-
Ge0rG
Speaking from experience
-
Zash
It is known
-
marc
jonasw, on top of my pending change?
-
Ge0rG
Zash: https://op-co.de/tmp/emoji_ascii.py (returned to a PC now)
-
Zash
Thanks
-
Ge0rG
(same URL as always, I was just mocking you for putting everything into ungreppable pastebins; sorry)
-
jonasw
marc, better not
-
jonasw
marc, Ge0rG seems to not like that change :)
-
Ge0rG
marc: your PR contained both the error fixes and a change from adhoc-IBR to data-forms, right?
-
marc
Ge0rG: yes
-
marc
jonasw: how to handle the version number then?
-
jonasw
marc, don’t, that’s the editors job in case of doubt
-
marc
jonasw: also no description?
-
jonasw
marc, make descriptive commit message s:)
-
marc
jonasw: okay
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: I don't like one of the two changes that were part of the same commit
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, true
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: but please don't get me started about commit chains depending on dead ends
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: irregardless of what I like, I will bow to Council's decision
-
jonasw
what is councils decision on this experimental xep?
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: it was accepted as experimental with some IBR data-forms sentiment
-
Maranda
About games using xmpp for chat, Perfect World Entertainment/Cryptic Studios use XMPP for their out of game to in-game chat interface from like 2011
-
Maranda
(e.g. Star Trek Online)
-
Maranda
(Neverwinter)
-
vanitasvitae
I like the fact, that a Star Trek game is using XMPP given the fact, that all species in the star trek universe can call each others ships without any issues
-
Ge0rG
Kev: so who is _technically able_ to post on @xmpp twitter?
-
Zash
I remember mention of Twitter account setup such that people could be given access easily. How did that go?
-
Ge0rG
Guus: I didn't volunteer because I plainly lack the time
-
Guus
As nicely illustrated by answering after 2 1/2 hours
-
Ge0rG
Guus: sorry :(
-
Guus
no worries :)
-
Ge0rG
Guus: do you know who can twitter out things?
-
Ge0rG
Ah, there it was already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16445365
-
marc
jonasw, done in https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/592
-
marc
Oh damn, I should adapt the examples :D
-
jonasw
yeah
-
jonasw
do that :)
-
marc
okay, done
-
jonasw
lgtm
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, I can’t seem to find councils statemetn on easy user onboarding
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: I wish council minutes were better greppable.
-
Ge0rG
Can't we have links to the council MUC from the XEP history? :D
-
jonasw
hah
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: Dave's comment is in the lines after http://logs.xmpp.org/council/2018-01-17#16:06:45
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: Kev commented on-list: > Not blocking this (+1), but the addition of fields into IBR seems wrong - don’t we have xep4 in IBR for this reason?
-
jonasw
ok
-
jonasw
so I should be merging the PR against 401 and you delayed that for no reason? ;-)
-
Ge0rG
https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2018-January/034152.html is the link
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: yes. I'm an asshole :P
-
jonasw
m(
-
jonasw
I know, zinid said that
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: seriously though, I provided my rationale for adding fields into IBR on-list, and I hoped that Dave and Kev would comment on that.
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, well, okay. so should we be waiting longer?
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: yes please.
-
jonasw
gaaah just say that! :P
-
jonasw
you wasted a minute of my time :P
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: I what? Why?
-
jonasw
because of thinking on whether or not to merge this now and hunting references and so on :P
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: maybe data-forms have an advantage for server developers, where a single hook API can be exposed for all registration-related things. I don't know.
-
Ge0rG
All I know is how it's the easiest for a client.
-
jonasw
I find it useful to have extensibility here
-
Ge0rG
Do we have something for hidden fields in data forms?
-
jonasw
type hidden?
-
jonasw
like FORM_TYPE is?
-
Ge0rG
https://www.quora.com/What-technology-does-the-iOS-Apple-Push-Notification-Service-APNS-use-to-maintain-a-persistent-connection-with-each-device-to-receive-such-fast-push-notifications
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: like field type hidden, but to be filled out by the client
-
jonasw
Ge0rG, > hidden The field is not shown to the form-submitting entity, but instead is returned with the form. The form-submitting entity SHOULD NOT modify the value of a hidden field, but MAY do so if such behavior is defined for the "using protocol".
-
jonasw
so exactly like field type hidden?
-
Ge0rG
jonasw: I was just going to post that quote, yes!
-
SaltyBones
so, just in case you don't have it on your radar yet
-
SaltyBones
GDPR will be in effect from may on✎ -
SaltyBones
GDPR will be in effect from May on ✏
-
jonasw
I still have no idea what that means.
-
SaltyBones
I just attended a talk about it and tried to pull out of the guys nose what I have to do.
-
SaltyBones
And the answer is definitely not nothing.
-
jonasw
what is the answer then?
-
SaltyBones
In fact it is apparently so far away from nothing that it can only be described as "it's complicated" and he pretty much suggested that I shut down.
-
jonasw
"you"?
-
SaltyBones
Well, to not complicate things I only told him that I am running an e-mail server for family and friends...
-
SaltyBones
And apparently that means you actually have to do a bunch of things that somehow magically conform to the legalese of risk analysis and all the other umpteen steps I just heard about...
-
SaltyBones
I think nobody knows what it will mean in practice yet. The documents are complex and contain the usual, excessive amount of weaselwords.
-
jonasw
can someone not affected sue me?
-
jonasw
if not, I don’t care.
-
SaltyBones
I have no clue. He at some point seemed to answer this question with yes and later with no. :p
-
SaltyBones
I just wanted to mention it.
-
Ge0rG
SaltyBones: I'm a professional GDPR consultant. I can support you at only 175€/hr.
-
Zash
Is "Self-host in your own home" still the best way to avoid all legalities?
-
SaltyBones
Ask Ge0rG! :D
-
Ge0rG
Zash: no. "Do not store other people's data" is the best way.
-
Zash
Good thing we made MAM mandatory!
-
Ge0rG
Zash: you might understand now why I insist on https://prosody.im/issues/867 so much.
-
Zash
Ge0rG: I'd probably go with disabling it entirely until explicitly enabled via prefs if I were me
-
Ge0rG
Zash: are you you?
-
Zash
Not sure
-
Ge0rG
I'm sure I'm not you.
-
Zash
Uh, this doesn't look right: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0158.html#registrar-formtypes-register
-
Zash
Is that the same as the captcha from above it?