Thursday, March 01, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
March
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
      1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
 
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:02:24] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:02:24] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:02:40] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:02:40] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[00:05:06] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:05:08] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:06:19] *** Guus has left the room
[00:06:25] *** ralphm has left the room
[00:12:25] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:12:25] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[00:13:48] *** ralphm has joined the room
[00:17:01] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:17:01] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:17:59] *** jjrh has left the room
[00:17:59] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[00:21:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[00:21:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[00:24:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:25:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:26:12] *** dwd has left the room
[00:26:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:27:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:30:19] *** Guus has left the room
[00:32:45] *** Guus has left the room
[00:32:46] *** Guus shows as "online"
[00:32:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[00:33:06] *** Lance has joined the room
[00:33:06] *** Lance shows as "online"
[00:33:57] *** nyco has left the room
[00:34:18] *** nyco shows as "online"
[00:34:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[00:35:41] *** dwd has left the room
[00:36:14] *** ralphm has left the room
[00:39:19] *** Guus has left the room
[00:39:51] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[00:42:14] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:42:14] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[00:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[00:43:07] *** Guus shows as "online"
[00:43:49] *** ralphm has joined the room
[00:49:49] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:49:49] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[00:49:53] *** Lance has left the room
[00:54:19] *** Guus has left the room
[00:54:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:54:39] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[00:54:52] *** Guus shows as "online"
[00:55:33] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[00:55:53] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[00:55:53] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[00:56:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[01:00:40] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:01:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:01:55] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:01:55] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[01:03:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[01:06:19] *** Guus has left the room
[01:06:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:06:40] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[01:07:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[01:07:25] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[01:07:56] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:07:56] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[01:11:12] *** lskdjf has left the room
[01:12:19] *** Guus has left the room
[01:12:44] *** jjrh has left the room
[01:12:45] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[01:13:02] *** jjrh has left the room
[01:13:12] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[01:13:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:13:15] *** Guus has left the room
[01:13:15] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:13:57] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[01:13:57] *** Ge0rG shows as "away"
[01:19:01] *** jjrh has left the room
[01:19:02] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[01:21:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:23:02] *** efrit has left the room
[01:24:19] *** Guus has left the room
[01:24:19] *** Guus has left the room
[01:24:39] *** waqas has left the room
[01:29:15] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:33:19] *** Guus has left the room
[01:37:45] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:38:12] *** ralphm has left the room
[01:39:20] *** Guus has left the room
[01:43:11] *** matlag has left the room
[01:43:13] *** matlag shows as "online"
[01:43:49] *** ralphm has joined the room
[01:44:40] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[01:50:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[01:53:30] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[01:54:19] *** Guus has left the room
[01:57:35] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[01:59:57] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[02:00:55] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:01:58] *** ralphm has left the room
[02:02:49] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:02:50] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:03:19] *** Guus has left the room
[02:06:44] *** jere has left the room
[02:07:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:10:57] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:11:40] *** waqas has joined the room
[02:11:41] *** waqas has left the room
[02:12:19] *** Guus has left the room
[02:12:54] *** jjrh has left the room
[02:12:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[02:13:48] *** ralphm has joined the room
[02:14:21] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[02:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[02:21:19] *** Guus has left the room
[02:23:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:26:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[02:29:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[02:29:41] *** dwd has left the room
[02:29:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[02:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[02:43:34] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:43:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:45:45] *** dwd shows as "online"
[02:48:09] *** Guus has left the room
[02:48:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[02:51:17] *** Zash has left the room
[02:54:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:00:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:01:05] *** jjrh has left the room
[03:01:05] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[03:01:08] *** dwd has left the room
[03:03:16] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:03:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[03:06:44] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[03:06:55] *** jere has joined the room
[03:07:54] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:11:03] *** jjrh has left the room
[03:11:04] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[03:11:41] *** dwd has left the room
[03:13:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:15:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:15:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:17:23] *** rion has joined the room
[03:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:22:44] *** Guus has left the room
[03:22:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:22:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:24:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:26:43] *** ralphm has joined the room
[03:27:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:27:22] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:27:23] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:30:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:33:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:33:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:38:22] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[03:38:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[03:38:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[03:39:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:40:43] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[03:45:28] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:49:08] *** ralphm has left the room
[03:50:31] *** andy has joined the room
[03:51:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:57:03] *** ralphm has joined the room
[03:57:19] *** Guus has left the room
[03:58:08] *** Guus shows as "online"
[03:58:11] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:01:43] *** rion has left the room
[04:01:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:01:54] *** rion has joined the room
[04:01:56] *** Guus has left the room
[04:01:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:01:58] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:02:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[04:03:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:04:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:04:54] *** jjrh has left the room
[04:04:54] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[04:05:38] *** jjrh has left the room
[04:05:39] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[04:08:19] *** jjrh has left the room
[04:08:20] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[04:08:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[04:09:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:12:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:12:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:14:22] *** tux has left the room
[04:14:22] *** tux has joined the room
[04:14:56] *** rion has left the room
[04:16:38] *** rion has joined the room
[04:19:20] *** ralphm has left the room
[04:20:18] *** rion shows as "away"
[04:21:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[04:21:30] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:21:30] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:21:45] *** dwd has left the room
[04:25:16] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:26:42] *** Guus has left the room
[04:26:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:27:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:27:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:27:24] *** ralphm has joined the room
[04:28:58] *** dwd shows as "online"
[04:32:41] *** dwd has left the room
[04:34:22] *** jere has left the room
[04:34:26] *** jere has joined the room
[04:34:28] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[04:34:28] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[04:34:31] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:34:35] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[04:34:35] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[04:34:35] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[04:34:35] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[04:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:39:21] *** Guus shows as "online"
[04:44:01] *** matlag has left the room
[04:44:07] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:44:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[04:44:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[04:44:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[04:44:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[04:44:28] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[04:45:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:49:49] *** ralphm has left the room
[04:50:27] *** andy has left the room
[04:51:01] *** @Alacer has left the room
[04:51:03] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[04:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[04:54:28] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[04:56:00] *** andy has joined the room
[04:56:35] *** ralphm has joined the room
[04:56:52] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[04:58:13] *** matlag shows as "online"
[05:02:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:02:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:02:29] *** ludo has joined the room
[05:03:19] *** Guus has left the room
[05:04:23] *** ludo has joined the room
[05:08:49] *** andy has left the room
[05:09:46] *** andy has joined the room
[05:14:07] *** Guus has left the room
[05:14:08] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:14:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:17:48] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:18:06] *** @Alacer has left the room
[05:19:05] *** ralphm has left the room
[05:20:10] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[05:24:19] *** Guus has left the room
[05:24:19] *** Guus has left the room
[05:26:54] *** ralphm has joined the room
[05:30:19] *** Guus has left the room
[05:30:38] *** rion has left the room
[05:31:15] *** @Alacer has left the room
[05:31:19] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[05:32:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:32:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[05:39:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[05:41:30] *** j.r has joined the room
[05:42:56] *** goffi has joined the room
[05:44:32] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[05:49:20] *** andy has left the room
[05:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[05:52:53] *** j.r has joined the room
[05:56:00] *** ludo has left the room
[05:56:01] *** ludo has joined the room
[05:56:48] *** ralphm has joined the room
[05:57:23] *** @Alacer has left the room
[05:59:56] *** ludo has left the room
[06:03:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:04:42] *** Guus has left the room
[06:04:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:07:02] *** ralphm has left the room
[06:07:05] *** ralphm has joined the room
[06:08:14] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:08:15] *** dwd has left the room
[06:08:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:08:15] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:08:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:08:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:08:59] *** SamWhited has left the room
[06:12:19] *** Guus has left the room
[06:13:31] *** daniel has left the room
[06:13:39] *** daniel has joined the room
[06:14:58] *** j.r has joined the room
[06:15:19] *** Guus has left the room
[06:16:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:16:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:16:40] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[06:17:29] *** daniel has left the room
[06:19:09] *** daniel has joined the room
[06:20:41] *** dwd has left the room
[06:23:52] *** Holger has left the room
[06:23:52] *** Holger shows as "online"
[06:28:15] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:28:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[06:28:45] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[06:31:29] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[06:32:58] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:33:02] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:36:51] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[06:38:08] *** daniel has left the room
[06:38:10] *** daniel has joined the room
[06:38:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[06:38:45] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[06:39:19] *** Guus has left the room
[06:41:07] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[06:41:42] *** lovetox has joined the room
[06:44:43] *** Guus has left the room
[06:44:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:44:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[06:44:53] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:45:11] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:45:13] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:45:19] *** daniel shows as "online"
[06:45:19] *** Guus has left the room
[06:45:23] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:46:36] *** rtq3 has left the room
[06:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[06:49:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[06:51:47] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:51:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:51:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[06:52:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:52:33] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[06:53:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:53:09] *** daniel has left the room
[06:53:17] *** daniel shows as "online"
[06:57:09] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[06:59:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[06:59:30] *** daniel has left the room
[06:59:35] *** daniel shows as "online"
[07:02:33] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[07:03:43] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:05:43] *** Nekit has left the room
[07:05:43] *** Nekit has joined the room
[07:06:36] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:07:55] *** @Alacer has left the room
[07:07:57] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[07:08:53] *** lovetox has left the room
[07:12:26] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[07:14:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:14:41] *** dwd has left the room
[07:15:11] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:16:30] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:16:30] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:18:05] *** pep. shows as "online"
[07:21:27] *** Tobias has joined the room
[07:21:32] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:21:34] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:21:36] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:22:10] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:24:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:26:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:26:12] *** Guus has left the room
[07:26:12] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:26:39] *** intosi has joined the room
[07:26:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:28:49] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:29:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:30:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:30:17] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:33:19] *** Guus has left the room
[07:33:20] *** Guus has left the room
[07:33:20] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:35:21] *** Kev has left the room
[07:35:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:36:05] *** Seve/SouL has left the room
[07:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[07:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[07:37:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:37:49] *** dwd has left the room
[07:37:58] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:38:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:38:18] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:38:46] *** Seve/SouL has joined the room
[07:38:56] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[07:39:46] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[07:39:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:41:48] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[07:42:33] *** Kev has joined the room
[07:42:35] *** Kev shows as "online"
[07:42:40] *** ralphm has joined the room
[07:43:35] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[07:44:05] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:44:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:44:48] *** dwd has left the room
[07:45:19] *** Guus has left the room
[07:46:02] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[07:46:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:46:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:46:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:46:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:47:41] *** dwd has left the room
[07:47:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[07:48:55] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:50:21] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:51:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:51:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:53:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:54:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:56:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[07:56:41] *** dwd has left the room
[07:57:30] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:58:50] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:00:21] *** @Alacer has left the room
[08:02:20] *** xnyhps has left the room
[08:02:29] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[08:03:51] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[08:03:52] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:04:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:04:40] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:04:40] *** dwd has left the room
[08:05:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:06:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:06:37] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:09:10] *** rtq3 has left the room
[08:10:08] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[08:11:01] <Kev> 8AM and I already won the 'most pointless mail to standards@ of the day' award.
[08:11:58] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[08:12:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:12:27] *** jonasw has left the room
[08:12:27] *** jonasw has joined the room
[08:14:41] *** dwd has left the room
[08:14:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:15:50] *** jonasw has left the room
[08:15:50] *** jonasw has joined the room
[08:15:50] <jonasw> great, poezio is massively confused by this MUC. Trying to answer nontheless: how do you end up with 2046 octets? the "@" surely is needed?
[08:15:50] *** jonasw has left the room
[08:15:50] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[08:15:51] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[08:16:07] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[08:16:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:16:37] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:17:09] <Kev> Nope.
[08:17:25] <Kev> What do you need the @ for?
[08:17:40] *** rion has left the room
[08:17:41] *** dwd has left the room
[08:17:48] *** jonasw has joined the room
[08:18:04] <jonasw> Kev, to separate localpart and domain?
[08:18:10] <Kev> Why do you need to do that?
[08:18:17] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[08:18:49] <Kev> (I'm not being dense, you'll get there in a moment :))
[08:18:54] <jonasw> oh my god, are you suggesting to put a 1023-octet localpart and a 1023-octet domainpart into the thing without separation because it can be inferred by the length and absence of an "@" where the separation happen??
[08:18:59] <jonasw> oh my god, are you suggesting to put a 1023-octet localpart and a 1023-octet domainpart into the thing without separation because it can be inferred by the length and absence of an "@" where the separation happens?
[08:19:06] <Kev> :)
[08:19:12] <jonasw> oh my god
[08:19:15] <Kev> :)
[08:19:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:19:31] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:19:39] <jonasw> you can’t do that to me
[08:19:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:19:40] <jonasw> good morning Kev, you already made my day :-)
[08:19:58] <Kev> No, I'm not suggesting it's a good idea, but it's 8AM and I felt the world deserved to suffer.
[08:20:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:20:06] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:20:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:20:10] <jonasw> I am amused at this point :)
[08:20:20] <jonasw> I’m sorry that you feel the need to make the world suffer, wanna talk about it? :)
[08:20:47] <jonasw> (this idea is so insane and I can, in a very *very* weird way relate to it, doing embedded work from time to time)
[08:20:53] <jonasw> (it keeps making me laugh)
[08:21:06] <jonasw> (if that helps you in any way; if you genuinely want suffering, I’m double-sorry now)
[08:21:27] <Kev> No, not really.
[08:23:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:23:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:23:51] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:23:53] <Ge0rG> This only works if your upstream implementation actually enforces the 1023 octet limits
[08:24:40] <Ge0rG> But it reminds me of the double-linked-list-with-only-one-pointer trick.
[08:24:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:25:18] <jonasw> I don’t want to know.
[08:25:29] <jonasw> (although I’m guilty of using Duff’s-device-coroutines)
[08:26:10] *** @Alacer has left the room
[08:27:41] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[08:28:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:28:32] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[08:28:33] *** marmistrz shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:29:06] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:30:01] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:30:40] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:30:41] *** dwd has left the room
[08:30:47] *** dwd has left the room
[08:30:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:31:12] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:31:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:31:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:32:10] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:32:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:32:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
[08:32:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:32:59] *** dwd has left the room
[08:33:15] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[08:34:31] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[08:35:06] *** Guus shows as "online"
[08:35:08] *** rtq3 has left the room
[08:35:17] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:35:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:35:58] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[08:36:24] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[08:37:02] *** remko has joined the room
[08:37:03] *** remko shows as "online"
[08:37:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:40:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:41:12] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:41:41] *** dwd has left the room
[08:41:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:42:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:44:47] *** Holger has left the room
[08:46:48] *** Holger shows as "online"
[08:48:01] <flow> hmm? and where do you get the length from? Don't you need to store it instead of the separation char?
[08:48:13] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:48:18] <jonasw> flow, the length is in the data field itself; XML delimits it for you
[08:48:45] <jonasw> (and databases would too)
[08:52:10] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[08:52:13] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[08:52:29] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[08:52:38] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:53:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[08:54:45] *** @Alacer has left the room
[08:57:04] *** marmistrz has left the room
[08:58:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[08:59:17] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:04:23] *** winfried has left the room
[09:04:23] *** winfried has joined the room
[09:05:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:05:40] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:06:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:06:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:06:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[09:08:57] *** Maranda has left the room
[09:12:22] *** Maranda has joined the room
[09:12:25] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[09:12:26] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[09:12:49] *** rtq3 has left the room
[09:13:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:13:41] *** Guus has left the room
[09:13:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:20:26] *** Alex has joined the room
[09:21:19] *** Guus has left the room
[09:24:19] *** Guus has left the room
[09:25:33] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[09:25:35] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:27:49] *** andy has joined the room
[09:34:22] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[09:35:10] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:36:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:37:16] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[09:37:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:38:40] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:40:47] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[09:40:47] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[09:42:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:44:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:44:26] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:45:37] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[09:47:13] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[09:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[09:48:25] *** Guus has left the room
[09:48:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[09:49:26] *** remko shows as "away"
[09:50:06] *** andy has left the room
[09:55:00] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[09:55:17] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[09:57:22] *** lumi has joined the room
[09:59:26] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[10:00:19] *** Guus has left the room
[10:00:22] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[10:02:02] *** winfried shows as "online"
[10:08:30] *** remko shows as "online"
[10:09:42] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[10:09:42] *** mimi89999 has left the room
[10:17:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:17:49] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:19:16] *** rion has joined the room
[10:21:18] *** Holger has left the room
[10:22:19] *** jubalh has joined the room
[10:22:32] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[10:22:57] *** Holger shows as "online"
[10:25:16] *** Nekit has left the room
[10:25:58] *** Nekit has joined the room
[10:26:36] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[10:27:20] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[10:27:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:27:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:27:49] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:28:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[10:29:01] *** rtq3 has left the room
[10:29:08] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[10:29:24] *** Syndace has joined the room
[10:30:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:30:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:31:05] <Ge0rG> We were talking about sponsoring individual XMPP developers recently, and maybe this one might work out for some: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/
[10:31:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[10:31:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:32:26] <jonasw> what’s the difference to patreon and liberapay?
[10:32:34] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[10:32:43] <jonasw> > We offer Paypal and Stripe as payout options.
[10:32:44] <jonasw> meh
[10:32:50] <Ge0rG> jonasw: better branding.
[10:32:50] *** jubalh has left the room
[10:33:02] *** dwd has left the room
[10:34:55] <Ge0rG> Stripe does IBAN payouts, though
[10:35:53] *** remko shows as "away"
[10:36:06] <jonasw> I signed up for liberapay and just realized that they didn’t ask me for a password yet.
[10:36:11] <jonasw> that’s smooth onbording I’ll say
[10:39:19] *** jere has joined the room
[10:39:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:40:04] *** remko shows as "online"
[10:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[10:43:18] *** rtq3 has left the room
[10:43:26] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[10:43:26] <Ge0rG> > Unlike other non-profit platforms, Liberapay is neutral. You can create an account without having to wait for us to approve it, and we won't kick you out unless you break the law or the terms of service.
Heh. But I kind of like the overall thing
[10:43:55] <jonasw> "but"?
[10:44:53] <Ge0rG> I don't know about them, but most payment processors have very vague ToS, so you'll end up kicked anyway
[10:45:03] <mathieui> jonasw, that’s kind of similar to the policy of the "kickstarter for fascists" started by far-right groups
[10:45:09] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[10:45:16] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[10:45:24] *** la|r|ma shows as "online"
[10:46:15] *** Holger has left the room
[10:47:12] *** Holger shows as "online"
[10:48:12] *** andy has joined the room
[10:48:52] <daniel> mathieui: wasn't that more like patreon? Because patreon kicked Lauren southern?
[10:49:26] *** @Alacer has left the room
[10:54:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:54:35] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[10:56:47] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[10:57:17] *** dwd shows as "online"
[10:59:27] *** Guus has left the room
[10:59:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[10:59:45] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:00:37] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[11:05:48] *** andy has left the room
[11:05:49] *** Guus shows as "online"
[11:06:20] *** Guus has left the room
[11:07:17] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:08:03] *** andy has joined the room
[11:10:37] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:11:29] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[11:12:20] *** Guus has left the room
[11:12:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:13:02] *** jubalh has joined the room
[11:13:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:13:37] *** dwd has left the room
[11:14:03] *** andy has left the room
[11:15:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:15:48] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[11:16:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:17:09] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:17:17] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:17:23] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[11:17:49] *** remko shows as "away"
[11:17:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:17:56] *** andy has joined the room
[11:18:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[11:18:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:19:31] *** dwd has left the room
[11:20:54] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:23:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:23:27] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:23:56] *** andy has left the room
[11:24:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:24:12] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:24:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:24:55] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:24:55] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:24:56] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:25:35] *** dwd has left the room
[11:26:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:26:41] *** dwd has left the room
[11:27:09] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:27:10] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:27:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:28:01] *** andy has joined the room
[11:29:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:29:41] *** dwd has left the room
[11:29:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:30:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:31:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:32:33] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[11:33:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:33:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:33:35] *** dwd has left the room
[11:34:20] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:34:54] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:35:43] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:37:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:37:31] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[11:37:35] *** Alex shows as "online"
[11:38:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:39:52] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:41:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:41:51] *** daniel has left the room
[11:42:20] *** @Alacer has left the room
[11:42:56] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:43:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:43:26] *** dwd has left the room
[11:44:41] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:44:41] *** dwd has left the room
[11:44:49] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:45:28] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:45:52] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[11:46:22] *** andy has left the room
[11:46:38] *** lumi shows as "online"
[11:46:40] *** andy has joined the room
[11:47:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:47:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:48:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:48:59] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[11:49:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:50:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:50:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:50:30] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:50:41] *** dwd has left the room
[11:50:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:52:10] *** Tobias has joined the room
[11:52:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:52:29] *** dwd shows as "online"
[11:52:33] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[11:53:02] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:54:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:56:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[11:59:00] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:59:18] *** Maranda has joined the room
[12:00:01] *** andy has left the room
[12:00:36] *** remko shows as "online"
[12:02:21] *** Tobias has joined the room
[12:02:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:02:56] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[12:03:39] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[12:04:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:04:42] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[12:09:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:09:13] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:09:22] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:09:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:09:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:09:40] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:12:23] *** matlag has left the room
[12:12:34] *** Guus shows as "online"
[12:14:19] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:14:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:15:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:16:18] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:16:18] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[12:16:52] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[12:17:00] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:17:11] *** matlag shows as "online"
[12:17:24] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:17:27] *** Zash shows as "online"
[12:17:55] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[12:17:56] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:18:56] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[12:18:57] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[12:19:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:19:14] *** Kev shows as "away"
[12:19:42] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[12:20:09] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:20:11] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:20:15] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:20:51] *** Kev shows as "online"
[12:21:19] *** Guus has left the room
[12:21:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:22:30] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:23:17] *** andy has joined the room
[12:24:01] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:24:22] *** lumi shows as "online"
[12:25:11] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[12:25:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:26:39] *** tux shows as "away"
[12:27:09] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:27:32] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:27:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:28:06] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:28:16] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:29:09] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[12:29:22] *** @Alacer has joined the room
[12:29:50] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:29:52] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:30:11] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:30:11] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[12:30:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:30:51] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:31:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:31:52] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:31:53] *** dwd has left the room
[12:31:54] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:32:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:32:34] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:32:41] *** dwd has left the room
[12:34:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:35:18] *** andy has left the room
[12:36:46] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:38:02] *** remko shows as "away"
[12:38:41] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:38:52] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[12:39:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:41:41] *** dwd has left the room
[12:42:06] *** marmistrz has left the room
[12:42:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:42:49] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:42:52] *** lumi shows as "online"
[12:44:41] *** dwd has left the room
[12:46:06] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[12:47:48] *** Tobias shows as "away"
[12:49:58] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[12:50:49] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:51:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:51:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[12:52:39] <Tobias> So seems like the MLS WG is pretty limited in their planned supported scenarios.
[12:52:52] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[12:52:56] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[12:53:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:53:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:53:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[12:55:36] *** tux shows as "online"
[12:56:30] <flow> Tobias, how come?
[12:58:19] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[12:59:56] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:00:52] <Tobias> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mls/b5YoQfdeFcoLYrFdxbZmdX__jWA
[13:00:57] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:00:58] <Tobias> See this thread
[13:02:40] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[13:03:08] <Dave Cridland> That's a very well-written email to kick things off.
[13:03:21] *** jubalh has left the room
[13:04:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:05:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:05:41] *** dwd has left the room
[13:07:14] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[13:07:18] *** Alex shows as "online"
[13:08:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[13:09:21] *** andy has joined the room
[13:11:29] <flow> Dave Cridland, "within blue light"?
[13:13:16] *** jere has joined the room
[13:13:36] <flow> hmm, possibly rescue services and such
[13:13:51] *** lumi shows as "online"
[13:19:03] <Dave Cridland> flow, Right, sorry, a UK term. People who drive vehicles with blue lights on top - so fire/police/ambulance.
[13:19:52] <Dave Cridland> But also coastguard, mountain rescue, cave rescue, and all sorts. Weird sector, because some of it is Government funded and some is volunteer.
[13:19:57] *** Guus shows as "online"
[13:21:31] *** remko shows as "online"
[13:25:13] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:25:36] *** jonasw has left the room
[13:25:51] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:26:06] *** jonasw has left the room
[13:26:46] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[13:26:48] *** andy has left the room
[13:27:03] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[13:27:08] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:27:23] *** jonasw has left the room
[13:27:30] *** lumi shows as "online"
[13:27:55] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:27:59] *** jonasw has left the room
[13:29:44] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[13:30:19] *** Guus has left the room
[13:30:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:30:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:30:52] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[13:30:58] *** jonasw has left the room
[13:32:50] <Ge0rG> That escalated quickly
[13:33:36] *** jubalh has joined the room
[13:33:55] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:34:28] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[13:35:43] *** marmistrz has left the room
[13:36:03] *** jubalh has left the room
[13:36:04] *** jubalh has joined the room
[13:36:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:37:50] *** remko shows as "away"
[13:38:26] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[13:38:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:38:56] *** intosi shows as "online"
[13:39:00] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[13:39:08] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:40:14] *** lumi shows as "online"
[13:41:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:41:03] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[13:43:57] *** remko shows as "online"
[13:44:06] *** efrit has joined the room
[13:44:41] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[13:49:14] *** marmistrz has left the room
[13:49:17] *** marmistrz has joined the room
[13:50:28] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[13:51:03] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:51:03] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[13:51:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[13:54:44] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[13:55:12] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[13:58:22] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:00:30] *** lumi shows as "online"
[14:02:56] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:03:23] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[14:04:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:09:20] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[14:10:18] *** Tobias has left the room
[14:10:40] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:11:32] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[14:18:34] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[14:19:18] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:19:22] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[14:19:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:20:05] *** dwd has left the room
[14:20:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:20:09] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:20:11] *** lumi shows as "online"
[14:20:18] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:20:25] *** jubalh has left the room
[14:20:41] *** tim@boese-ban.de has left the room
[14:20:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:21:25] *** Kev has left the room
[14:22:14] *** andy has joined the room
[14:24:08] *** Alex has left the room
[14:24:43] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:24:43] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:24:43] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:26:09] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[14:26:16] *** daniel has left the room
[14:26:20] *** Alex has joined the room
[14:26:33] *** daniel has joined the room
[14:27:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:27:25] *** Alex has left the room
[14:28:11] *** andy has left the room
[14:28:50] *** Alex has joined the room
[14:29:41] *** dwd has left the room
[14:30:16] *ralphm bangs gavel
[14:30:29] *** ralphm changed the title to "XSF Board Meeting | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings"
[14:30:32] <MattJ> Good afternoon
[14:30:34] <ralphm> 0. Welcome and agenda
[14:30:36] *Guus plots to replace the gavel with a rubber one for next time.
[14:30:38] *** dwd has left the room
[14:30:39] <ralphm> Hi!
[14:30:42] <ralphm> Who do we have?
[14:30:49] <MattJ> Me
[14:30:54] <Guus> I
[14:32:02] <ralphm> Martin and nyco?
[14:32:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:33:13] <ralphm> Guess not.
[14:33:21] <ralphm> Any additions to the agenda?
[14:33:39] <Guus> I've added commteam membership requests to Trello earlier
[14:33:44] <Guus> (also, minutes?)
[14:34:03] <ralphm> Guus: I'm following the left-most column of Trello
[14:34:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:34:34] <ralphm> 1. Confirm minute taker
[14:34:42] <ralphm> Who (including floor) can do this?
[14:34:56] <Guus> if not anyone from the floor, I will
[14:35:01] <ralphm> Thanks GUus
[14:35:08] <ralphm> Thanks Guus
[14:35:35] *** nyco shows as "online"
[14:35:48] <ralphm> 2. Board priorities
[14:36:01] <ralphm> We still need to settle the meeting which nyco was setting up
[14:36:13] <Guus> I'm tempted to say that given our track record, that meeting that we're holding this off for isn't going to happen.
[14:36:24] <Guus> can we come to a conclusion on this without that meeting?
[14:37:08] <ralphm> I guess, but let's keep this on for one more week. Doing this with just 3/5 is not helpful
[14:37:16] <Guus> agreed.
[14:37:24] <MattJ> My proposal to make progress on this...
[14:37:48] <MattJ> I'd like to do another membership survey (though I know some people don't believe it holds much value)
[14:38:09] <Guus> I'm with the latter, but it doesn't hurt to have one either.
[14:38:10] <MattJ> I can draft something up, and we'll at least have something to discuss
[14:38:35] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[14:38:39] <MattJ> Right now it's such a broad open-ended topic, this "board priorities" thing really gets to me
[14:38:49] <ralphm> Yeah, I agree
[14:39:05] <MattJ> If all we need to do is agree that we want to make XMPP more popular and combat spam, let's just do it
[14:39:13] <MattJ> and remove this card
[14:39:33] <Ge0rG> what about making Jabber more popular?
[14:40:06] <ralphm> Let's not have this discussion right now.
[14:40:10] <Guus> Mattj, please go ahead. Anything to move forward.
[14:40:15] <ralphm> Yep
[14:40:30] <ralphm> 3. Additions to Work Teams
[14:40:30] <MattJ> Ok, I'll add it to my to-do(TM)
[14:41:13] <Guus> JC asked me to add those names up for a board vote
[14:41:17] <ralphm> From what I understood after the meeting last week, Winfried should have been part of the communications team. I'm +1 on adding him.
[14:41:29] <Guus> I'm very happy for anyone to contribute, and strongly believe the board should facilitate where we can, as I'm convinced that this benefits us all. My voting behavior on team membership issues is therefor "yes, unless".
[14:41:35] <Guus> Communication work team membership allows people to communicate on behalf of the XSF (by granting access to our social media accounts, and by allowing them to directly make changes to our public website).
[14:41:44] <Guus> Although he appears to be very motivated and puts in a lot of effort, I am not comfortable with Ludovic communicating on behalf of the XSF: I've experienced his style to be badgering, to the point of great annoyance, pressing non-issues, or issues that I disagree with.
[14:41:53] <Guus> I've seen, and have heard of, similar issues between him and others.
[14:41:59] <Guus> I'm therefor -1 on adding Ludovic as a member of the Communnication work team.
[14:42:05] <Guus> I have no concerns regarding Winfried's membership of the Communications work team. I'm +1 on that.
[14:42:33] *** lumi shows as "online"
[14:42:46] <ralphm> I agree with all of that Guus.
[14:42:57] <MattJ> Likewise on both counts
[14:43:02] <jonasw> I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one.
[14:43:31] <ralphm> Ok. Motion to add Winfried carries. Motion to add Ludovic doesn't carry.
[14:44:00] <ralphm> 4. SPAM SIG
[14:44:18] <ralphm> This was discussed after last weeks meeting briefly.
[14:44:19] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[14:44:24] *** lskdjf has left the room
[14:44:25] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[14:44:47] <MattJ> If this is an open group that essentially consists of a mailing list and MUC room, I have no objections
[14:44:55] <ralphm> I want to reiterate here that the (previous) board has voted this down, and I intend to stick by that decision until there's a better proposal.
[14:45:13] <MattJ> I think the initial request was for a closed group
[14:45:21] <Guus> If this facilitates an effort, I'm not against this.
[14:45:29] <ralphm> MattJ: right, but a SIG is more than that and I don't see why this needs to be an XSF activity.
[14:45:51] <ralphm> See also the operators mailinglist
[14:46:04] <ralphm> a SIG is open by definition
[14:46:09] <Ge0rG> the reason to make this an XSF-approved thing is to show that we are committed to fighting spam, and that we are actually doing something
[14:46:18] <Guus> I'm not on there, I think. Was there a relevant discussion, or is that an alternate venue you're referring to?
[14:46:20] <Ge0rG> I don't care much about the formal structure
[14:46:30] <ralphm> Ge0rG: until the direction of the XSF changes, we are a standards body
[14:46:43] <Ge0rG> ralphm: then it's time to change directions
[14:46:58] <MattJ> I don't see much of a difference between this and other SIGs we've formed in the past
[14:47:10] <MattJ> I'm not in favour of the spam manifesto being an XSF activity, for sure
[14:47:12] <ralphm> Ge0rG: and not everything XMPP under the sun has to be an XSF activity for work to get done. I tried explaining this on various occasions, and I don't understand why you don't get that.
[14:48:10] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:48:11] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:48:11] <ralphm> So work on it, if there are things you can't do, propose a XEP and we'll vote on this again.
[14:48:25] *** andy has joined the room
[14:48:31] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:48:31] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:48:32] <ralphm> (a XEP for a SIG. XEPs for protocol can go directly to the Council)
[14:48:47] <Ge0rG> ralphm: while I agree that we as the XSF have very limited manpower, my hope is that at least we as the XSF have a wider outreach, so we can have more contributions.
[14:49:08] *** sonny has joined the room
[14:49:27] <ralphm> Ge0rG: there's nothing the XSF does to 'widen outreach'
[14:49:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:49:29] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[14:49:47] *** sonny has left the room
[14:49:48] <Ge0rG> ralphm: you should discuss that with the comms-wg
[14:49:56] <ralphm> I suggest you get something started, tell the Comms team what you are doing and they can add a line or two in their news letter.
[14:50:12] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[14:50:29] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:50:33] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:50:40] <ralphm> 5. AOB
[14:50:44] <ralphm> Anything else?
[14:50:50] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[14:50:58] *** jonasw has left the room
[14:51:00] <Guus> the ED search and bus factor thingy?
[14:51:09] *** Martin has joined the room
[14:51:26] <Guus> bus factor wise, we're waiting for Peter's contact at the bank to return, I think? I'll ask him about that
[14:51:35] <ralphm> thanks
[14:51:44] <Guus> the Executive Director replacement, I still am unclear what needs to happen there.
[14:51:51] <Guus> but we should get that sorted (or removed)
[14:52:09] <ralphm> I'd like that to be part of our Priorities discussion, if we ever have one.
[14:52:48] <Guus> we're not simply asking for someone to take over from Peter?
[14:52:59] <ralphm> As was brought up briefly around the Summit, we need to know what we expect this person to do, outside of the profile that was defined long time ago.
[14:53:01] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[14:53:01] *** dwd shows as "online"
[14:53:46] <Guus> sensible. But, perhaps take that out of context of the prio thingy - to not overload that effort?
[14:53:49] *** jjrh has left the room
[14:53:50] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[14:54:12] *** efrit has left the room
[14:54:26] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[14:54:34] <goffi> does putting the newsletter license under CC By-SA need a board vote? I've made a P.R. for that, jc is OK for it (I've asked yesterday)
[14:55:05] *** j.r has joined the room
[14:56:04] <Guus> (goffi, I don't know to be honest)
[14:56:11] <jonasw> I don’t think so, frankly.
[14:56:18] <ralphm> goffi, it probably would
[14:56:35] <jonasw> do we have something which puts all rights on work made on the website under XSF ownership?
[14:56:36] <MattJ> Does the XSF even hold the copyright?
[14:56:37] <ralphm> Let me check that.
[14:56:46] <jonasw> if not, JC probably has the permissions to put it under any license he likes
[14:56:49] <ralphm> If it is an XSF activity, yes
[14:56:57] <MattJ> He's not paid for it
[14:57:11] <Zash> Neither are XEP authors?
[14:57:12] <ralphm> I think payment is not a factor
[14:57:24] <ralphm> XEPs are explicitly attributed to the XSF
[14:57:26] <goffi> XEP authors give ownership explicitly (I've done it)
[14:58:22] <ralphm> I think going forward, it makes a lot of sense for the XSF to own the copyright to things it publishes
[14:58:39] *** rion shows as "away" and his status message is "Hello world"
[14:58:44] <jonasw> defining a license for website content would be a good idea.
[14:58:55] <ralphm> I seem to remember we had this
[14:59:04] <jonasw> or rather: digging in the archives whether there actually *is* a license on website content and it just got lost in transition
[14:59:24] <Guus> that might not be the worst of ideas
[14:59:29] <jonasw> checking archive.org now
[14:59:35] <ralphm> jonasw: thanks
[14:59:48] <Guus> Shall we move that to next week then?
[14:59:54] <ralphm> Let's continue this out of band, and maybe add an item to our Trello
[15:00:07] <jonasw> https://web.archive.org/web/20070707184343/http://www.xmpp.org/about/copyright.shtml
[15:00:11] <jonasw> CC-BY
[15:00:36] *** Yagiza has joined the room
[15:00:37] <ralphm> 2.5
[15:00:41] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:00:44] <ralphm> (apparently)
[15:00:46] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[15:01:32] <Guus> Shall we restore that to our current website?
[15:01:43] <jonasw> I don’t find a similar attribution in the 2011 version
[15:01:51] <jonasw> so technically the content created inbetween is probably in limbo
[15:01:57] <ralphm> It probably got lost in all the site changes
[15:02:14] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:02:18] <Guus> I think it's reasonable to assume that it was not intentionally dropped and replaced by <nothing>.
[15:02:24] <jonasw> yeah
[15:02:27] <ralphm> Agreed
[15:02:38] <ralphm> I +1 your suggestion, Guus
[15:02:53] <Guus> martin (hi!), mattj?
[15:03:09] <MattJ> Yes, +1
[15:03:15] <ralphm> Carries
[15:03:36] *** jubalh has joined the room
[15:03:40] <ralphm> Ok, I think that's it for today.
[15:03:49] <ralphm> 6. Date of Next
[15:03:51] <ralphm> +1W
[15:03:56] <ralphm> 7. Close
[15:03:58] <ralphm> Thanks all!
[15:03:58] <Guus> wfm
[15:04:00] *ralphm bangs gavel
[15:04:10] *** ralphm changed the title to "XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings"
[15:04:27] <MattJ> Thanks
[15:06:10] *** Kev has joined the room
[15:06:11] *** Kev shows as "online"
[15:06:21] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[15:07:07] *** lumi shows as "online"
[15:07:45] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:07:46] *** moparisthebest has left the room
[15:07:53] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:08:04] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
[15:08:43] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:13:31] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[15:16:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:17:15] *** Zash has left the room
[15:17:15] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:17:15] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:17:16] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:17:16] *** Zash has left the room
[15:17:16] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:17:16] *** Zash has left the room
[15:17:16] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:17:16] *** Zash has left the room
[15:17:16] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:17:16] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:17:16] *** Zash has left the room
[15:17:16] *** Zash has left the room
[15:17:29] *** rtq3 has left the room
[15:17:38] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[15:18:26] *** Zash shows as "online"
[15:19:22] *** tux has left the room
[15:21:17] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[15:24:47] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:26:34] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:26:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[15:28:43] *** jubalh has left the room
[15:31:37] *** j.r has left the room
[15:32:44] *** j.r has joined the room
[15:33:09] <SaltyBones> Holger, could you unban me from the ejabberd muc? -_-
[15:33:25] *** Alex has left the room
[15:34:08] *** daniel has left the room
[15:34:20] *Guus considered _not_ making a reference to 'magic words' briefly, but desided against it.
[15:34:47] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[15:35:58] <SaltyBones> Holger, could you unban me from the ejabberd muc, please?
[15:36:06] <SaltyBones> :)
[15:36:29] *** daniel has joined the room
[15:36:32] <intosi> Alohomora might've worked as well. Guus was very unspecific.
[15:36:34] *** Kev shows as "away"
[15:37:45] <Guus> :)
[15:38:24] *** Kev shows as "online"
[15:38:43] <SaltyBones> Avada Kedavra!
[15:39:08] <intosi> Well, that wouldn't be my choice, really. You want to open a lock, not kill the admin.
[15:39:54] <intosi> Dark wizardry is frowned upon by most operators.
[15:39:57] *** rtq3 has left the room
[15:40:04] <SaltyBones> I only remember that and Lumos. :p
[15:40:17] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[15:40:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:40:20] <jonasw> SaltyBones, Vingardio Leviosa?
[15:40:25] <jonasw> (wutschen und wedeln!)
[15:40:37] <SaltyBones> Expecto Patronum!
[15:41:41] <Kev> Our testing framework for M-Link has an expectation framework called Expecto, and the 'check everything is the way it should be and fail the test otherwise' call is ->patronum().
[15:41:54] <Kev> So many of our unit tests end with the line
expecto_->patronum();
[15:41:58] <intosi> How would you expect to get marks for Charms if you can't even be bothered to use the right one if it's provided on a silver plate? ;)
[15:42:21] <Ge0rG> Kev: what's the `_` for? singleton?
[15:42:26] <intosi> member
[15:42:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:42:59] <Ge0rG> wasn't the member `_` a prefix, typically?
[15:43:18] *** dwd has left the room
[15:46:26] <Kev> Prefixes are magic in C++, and you have to be very careful to get them right. So it's safer (and reads better) to just suffix.
[15:46:43] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[15:47:40] <Ge0rG> > Each name that begins with an underscore is reserved to the implementation for use as a name in the global namespace.
Oh, didn't know *that*
[15:47:50] <Ge0rG> C++ is full of surprises, even to experienced developers
[15:48:18] <SaltyBones> I completely agree and hate it for that.
[15:48:56] <jonasw> I thought it was just _Uppercase?
[15:48:59] <jonasw> fun
[15:49:05] <jonasw> I’m using m_foo now anyways
[15:49:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[15:49:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[15:49:59] <Ge0rG> jonasw: _Uppercase is reserved in any scope, _* only in global scope
[15:50:16] <jonasw> ah okay
[15:50:18] <Ge0rG> I'm sure this distinction is never going to bite anyone.
[15:50:41] *** dwd has left the room
[15:51:18] <rion> omg..
~/projects/psi/git$ grep -P '\b_\S+' --include '*.cpp' -r . | wc -l
1782

[15:51:49] <jonasw> rion, foo._ would be safe IIUC
[15:51:50] <Kev> Ge0rG: I chose my words carefully :)
[15:52:15] *** jonasw shows as "online"
[15:52:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[15:52:23] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[15:52:36] <Ge0rG> Kev: as you always do, indeed.
[15:53:42] <Kev> Wibble.
[15:55:25] *** jonasw has left the room
[15:58:27] *** jjrh has left the room
[15:58:27] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[15:58:31] *** lovetox has joined the room
[15:58:50] *** andrey.g has left the room
[15:59:05] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[15:59:46] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[15:59:50] <intosi> Kev: working on RowanIM again?
[16:00:09] *** jubalh has joined the room
[16:00:19] *** winfried has joined the room
[16:01:18] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:01:36] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:01:38] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:01:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:02:04] *** jere has joined the room
[16:02:15] *** rion has left the room
[16:03:28] <Kev> Something like that.
[16:03:46] <Kev> Maybe we should rename Swift to Adder or something.
[16:04:01] <Kev> Until Apple then releases a new calculator or something.
[16:04:49] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:04:50] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:05:25] *** jjrh has left the room
[16:05:25] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[16:07:09] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:07:17] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:08:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:08:37] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:08:39] *** daniel has left the room
[16:08:41] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:09:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:09:21] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:09:25] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:12:23] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:12:25] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:14:24] <intosi> Sounds like a cunning plan.
[16:15:00] *** andrey.g has joined the room
[16:16:04] *** daniel has left the room
[16:16:07] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:16:16] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[16:16:22] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:16:23] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:16:24] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:16:27] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:17:38] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:17:44] <Dave Cridland> jonasw, I always use m_xyz for non-public members, too.
[16:18:44] *** Nekit has left the room
[16:18:59] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:21:11] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:22:08] *** jubalh has joined the room
[16:23:45] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:24:09] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[16:24:37] *** remko shows as "away"
[16:24:37] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:24:43] *** daniel has left the room
[16:24:48] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:24:53] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:24:59] *** Nekit has joined the room
[16:25:23] *** daniel has left the room
[16:25:27] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:25:37] *** jere has joined the room
[16:25:41] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[16:26:19] *** daniel has left the room
[16:26:22] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:27:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:27:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:27:30] *** dwd has left the room
[16:29:11] *** daniel has left the room
[16:29:15] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:31:14] *** daniel has left the room
[16:31:18] *** daniel has joined the room
[16:33:21] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:34:37] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:35:34] *** Martin has left the room
[16:35:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:35:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:36:00] *** Guus shows as "online"
[16:36:30] *** winfried has left the room
[16:36:31] *** winfried has joined the room
[16:37:27] *** winfried has left the room
[16:37:27] *** winfried has joined the room
[16:37:51] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:37:51] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:38:41] *** dwd has left the room
[16:39:04] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[16:40:42] *** lumi shows as "online"
[16:40:57] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:42:51] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:42:57] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[16:43:28] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:45:03] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:46:26] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[16:47:29] *** xnyhps has joined the room
[16:47:32] *** rion has joined the room
[16:48:45] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:49:49] <SaltyBones> When discussing IDs yesterday it was a common view that servers want to pick IDs for MAM storage.
[16:50:08] <SaltyBones> I'm wondering if that flexibility is actually being used and is necessary?
[16:50:19] <MattJ> Yes, it's being used
[16:50:22] <SaltyBones> Don't all servers have to basically perform the same operations on the archive and need the same index?
[16:50:35] <MattJ> The id can help encode indexing information
[16:51:12] <SaltyBones> Is that something that could or should be standardized because all servers need it?
[16:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[16:51:27] <SaltyBones> What kind of stuff do you encode there?
[16:51:35] *** dwd shows as "online"
[16:52:18] <MattJ> No, it shouldn't be standardized - it's not even standardized in Prosody, because it depends what storage you are using
[16:52:35] <Kev> It should be standardised that the server chooses, if that's the question.
[16:53:04] <MattJ> Oh, right, sure. I assumed the question was "should the encoded information be standardized?"
[16:53:13] <SaltyBones> Yes, it was. :)
[16:53:31] <SaltyBones> Yes, it was (what MattJ said). :)
[16:54:17] <Zash> We have a translation layer for a legacy storage mode where you need the date and offset to identify messages
[16:55:11] <SaltyBones> O_o
[16:55:16] <jonasw> https://unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Longer_Term and the XSF as a whole, regarding emoji and stickers
[16:58:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:00:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:00:40] *** dwd has left the room
[17:00:43] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:04:24] *** Guus has left the room
[17:04:24] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:04:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:04:47] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:04:54] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[17:05:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:06:23] *** jubalh has joined the room
[17:07:23] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[17:07:29] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[17:07:30] *** la|r|ma has joined the room
[17:09:29] *** tux has joined the room
[17:10:08] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:10:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:10:29] *** daniel has left the room
[17:10:33] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:11:40] *** pep. shows as "online"
[17:12:35] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[17:14:23] *** daniel has left the room
[17:14:28] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:15:19] *** Guus has left the room
[17:15:19] *** Guus has left the room
[17:15:47] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:15:47] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:15:58] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[17:16:34] *** daniel has left the room
[17:16:39] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:16:39] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:17:41] *** dwd has left the room
[17:19:48] <moparisthebest> unicode was a mistake
[17:21:04] <Zash> wat
[17:21:09] *** blabla shows as "online"
[17:21:37] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:22:32] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:23:25] <Ge0rG> unicode has failed
[17:23:53] <Zash> at what
[17:23:57] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[17:24:53] <Zash> https://xkcd.com/1953/
[17:25:25] *** daniel has left the room
[17:25:31] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:25:47] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:25:47] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:26:07] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:26:31] <intosi> They just have to add teletext codepoints and colour selectors, and Bob's your uncle.
[17:26:49] *** tux shows as "online"
[17:26:56] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[17:27:02] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[17:27:04] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[17:27:37] *** lumi shows as "online"
[17:27:44] *** winfried has joined the room
[17:28:06] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:28:26] *** daniel has left the room
[17:28:31] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:28:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:29:46] *** daniel has left the room
[17:29:49] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:30:03] *** daniel has left the room
[17:30:06] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:30:43] *** daniel has left the room
[17:30:48] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:30:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:32:13] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:32:13] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:32:37] *** Maranda has left the room
[17:32:58] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[17:34:39] <moparisthebest> that XKCD could not be more accurate
[17:35:23] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:35:25] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[17:36:43] <SaltyBones> MattJ, Zash: so one thing that was not completely explained yesterday is why we do mam queries with stanza-ID. Would it be so much more complicated to query by client ID?
[17:37:14] <Zash> SaltyBones: O(n)
[17:37:43] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:37:56] <SaltyBones> Can't you translate the client ID into something that can be an index? If I understand the problem correctly...
[17:38:12] <Zash> There's no index
[17:38:19] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:38:19] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:38:21] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:38:25] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[17:38:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:38:59] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:38:59] *** dwd has left the room
[17:39:53] *** lumi shows as "online"
[17:39:55] <Kev> Zash: There is an index, it's just not conventional.
[17:39:57] <SaltyBones> So what s the O(n)?
[17:40:06] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[17:40:10] <Kev> Searching the entire archive for the right id.
[17:40:13] <Zash> It avoids O(n) by being able to skip to the right day, because there's some time info embedded in the ID
[17:40:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:41:27] *** marc shows as "online"
[17:41:59] <SaltyBones> Interesting...
[17:42:19] <SaltyBones> So there is no index except a rough time?
[17:42:38] <Zash> The legacy thing I mentioned doesn't have an index, just a directory tree.
[17:42:42] <SaltyBones> And then it looks for the exact stanza-ID in the neighborhood?
[17:43:07] <Zash> And it's about as old as Prosody itself, and used for MUC
[17:43:17] <Zash> Who picks the stanza id in MUCs?
[17:45:12] <SaltyBones> Is there any way for the server to check if the queries stanza-ID was good?
[17:45:16] *** rion has left the room
[17:45:22] <SaltyBones> (efficiently)
[17:45:35] <SaltyBones> I suppose you already answered that...
[17:45:39] <Zash> And who picks the stanza id on messages from 2009?
[17:45:47] <SaltyBones> Are you asking me?
[17:45:54] <Zash> I'm actually talking about the thing behind http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/
[17:46:07] <SaltyBones> Because I have no clue. ;/
[17:46:43] *** daniel has left the room
[17:46:46] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:47:41] *** dwd has left the room
[17:48:40] <SaltyBones> I m just wondering if we could avoid clients having to deal with stanza-IDs
[17:48:53] <SaltyBones> Maybe they could just query by timestamp
[17:49:05] <SaltyBones> I don't know. I'm just curious. ;)
[17:49:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:49:18] *** Guus has left the room
[17:49:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[17:49:23] <Kev> As a client author, I don't think it's worth the effort. This is not providing much value, while many other things need solving.
[17:50:24] <lovetox> SaltyBones, if there was an easy solution the people here would already have done it
[17:50:35] <lovetox> everything has pro and cons
[17:50:38] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:51:09] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:51:09] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:51:31] *** Steve Kille has left the room
[17:51:36] *** daniel has left the room
[17:51:42] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:52:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:52:33] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:54:15] *** Seve/SouL has joined the room
[17:54:39] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:55:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:55:18] <SaltyBones> I agree but some of those are invisible to me. ;)
[17:56:57] *** dwd shows as "online"
[17:57:06] *** daniel has left the room
[17:57:07] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[17:57:11] *** daniel has joined the room
[17:57:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:57:33] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:58:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:58:17] <SaltyBones> Kev: Would that hold even if you were writing one from scratch?
[17:58:31] <Kev> Yes.
[17:58:48] <SaltyBones> Ok
[17:58:48] *** dwd has left the room
[17:59:24] <SaltyBones> Then I'll just type up a summary of this and yesterday's discussion for the mailing list.
[17:59:45] <Kev> As a server author, I also don't want to have ids that I need to index in some way being assigned to me instead of having me generate them (applies to resources as well as MAM, in fact) :)
[17:59:58] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:00:07] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:00:19] *** Guus has left the room
[18:03:07] *** nyco has left the room
[18:03:38] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[18:03:49] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[18:03:59] *** nyco shows as "online"
[18:06:19] *** Guus has left the room
[18:06:36] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[18:07:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:07:33] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:08:41] *** dwd has left the room
[18:09:58] *** lovetox shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:11:01] *** nyco has left the room
[18:11:33] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:11:35] *** nyco shows as "online"
[18:11:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:12:33] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[18:12:49] *** daniel has left the room
[18:12:52] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:13:29] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:14:14] <lovetox> with current mam:2 the whole process is not elegant but it works
[18:14:25] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:14:40] <lovetox> so indeed there are other things we could spend energy on
[18:15:00] *** Steve Kille has joined the room
[18:15:01] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
[18:15:09] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[18:16:37] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:17:27] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[18:19:59] <moparisthebest> you already do Kev , JIDs for example
[18:20:55] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[18:20:59] <Kev> Not quite the same.
[18:21:13] <moparisthebest> it's an arbitrary string you have to index and search on
[18:21:17] <moparisthebest> pretty sure it's exactly the same
[18:21:46] <Kev> I promise it's not.
[18:22:17] *** marmistrz has left the room
[18:22:25] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:23:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:23:33] *** dwd has left the room
[18:23:51] *** daniel has left the room
[18:23:56] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:24:56] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:25:00] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:25:03] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[18:26:16] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:26:22] *** rion has joined the room
[18:26:54] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:27:05] *** vanitasvitae has joined the room
[18:27:14] *** dwd has left the room
[18:28:06] *** Seve/SouL has left the room
[18:28:39] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:28:58] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:29:02] *** Seve/SouL has joined the room
[18:29:44] <jonasw> SaltyBones, as a client author, I prefer bouncing another stanza ID around over using timestamps for querying
[18:29:47] <jonasw> timestamps are the most awful thing
[18:30:10] <SaltyBones> :)
[18:30:21] <moparisthebest> this trustico certificate business is the best entertainment I've seen for awhile
[18:30:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:30:54] *** dwd has left the room
[18:31:44] *** daniel has left the room
[18:31:49] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:31:50] <Zash> Anyone got any good arguments on this topic? https://mastodon.xyz/@HerraBRE/99605039095553757
[18:32:25] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:32:41] *** dwd has left the room
[18:34:48] <SaltyBones> Good arguments for which side? ;)
[18:35:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:36:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:36:56] <moparisthebest> that's just dumb
[18:37:25] <moparisthebest> it's public knowledge that google etc just mines everyone's data, it's in their TOS
[18:37:40] <moparisthebest> he is saying a friend/family that hosts a server can also do that, which is true
[18:38:20] <moparisthebest> the solution is to use a protocol that lets you hide as much data as possible, so you can trust anyone else as little as possible
[18:40:47] <jjrh> Isn't the argument more that your friends/family are more likely to violate your privacy so being a needle in a haystack (aka using gmail vs a email hosting a family/friend setup and maintains) you probably are less likely to have your privacy violated
[18:41:30] *** Zash has left the room
[18:41:35] <SaltyBones> Yes, and that the data mining by Google is less harmful than snooping spouses. At least short term that s probably true
[18:41:41] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:41:43] *** Zash shows as "online"
[18:41:44] *** Zash shows as "online"
[18:41:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:42:59] <SaltyBones> That's btw why I like e2e. I don't have access anymore. Awesome!
[18:43:01] *** Yagiza has left the room
[18:44:14] *** daniel has left the room
[18:44:16] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:45:18] <jonasw> yeah, great :)
[18:45:27] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:45:37] <jjrh> It's probably true that the negative consequences of someone snooping are far more likely to occur with friends/family. Google might read my email and find out i'm cheating on my wife but all they care about is knowing i'm a good candidate to advertise 2 star motels.
[18:45:48] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[18:45:48] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:46:14] <SaltyBones> jjrh: That is a wonderful example!
[18:46:43] <moparisthebest> jjrh, except it's public knowledge google violates *everyones* privacy all the time as a matter of business
[18:46:45] <Zash> Incentives
[18:46:55] <moparisthebest> so your likliehood of getting privacy violated on google is 100%
[18:47:03] *** andy has left the room
[18:47:09] <moparisthebest> seems like it could be less than 100% elsewhere...
[18:47:13] <jjrh> That's why I said the negative consequences of that.
[18:47:36] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:47:47] <moparisthebest> yea so if you are cheating on your spouse, you probably shouldn't use a server your spouse has access to
[18:47:54] <moparisthebest> but do we have to spell out obvious things?
[18:48:12] *** andy has joined the room
[18:49:24] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:49:28] <Zash> Other than E2EE, is there anything that can be done in a world of federated friends&family servers wrt incentives for doing the right thing?
[18:49:33] *** Guus shows as "online"
[18:49:58] <jjrh> E2EE? end to end encryption?
[18:50:01] <Zash> Y
[18:50:03] <SaltyBones> I think the problem is backwards. :)
[18:50:25] <SaltyBones> We are using F&F because we trust these people more than Google.
[18:50:28] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:50:47] <jonasw> this is a frustrating argument
[18:50:55] <jonasw> this is a frustrating evening
[18:51:00] <moparisthebest> well e2e but there is also things we can do to hide metadata
[18:51:09] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:51:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:51:09] <Zash> jonasw: Have you caught some common cold variant too?
[18:51:11] <moparisthebest> that I haven't proposed yet but might get around to some day :P
[18:51:12] <SaltyBones> jonasw: yoga?
[18:51:16] <jonasw> Zash, nah, just Qt
[18:51:28] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:51:28] <SaltyBones> Ah
[18:51:54] <jonasw> (Qt (a) doesn’t support libnotify for whatever f*ing reason there might be and (b) does awful and illogical things to my icons when shoing them in the systray)
[18:52:12] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:52:34] <jjrh> moparisthebest, I think it's more the grey area where you're not doing something obviously wrong but for various reasons may not want your wife to know.
[18:52:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:52:54] <moparisthebest> then you shouldn't use a server ran by your wife
[18:52:59] <moparisthebest> that's simple common sense
[18:53:12] *** intosi shows as "online"
[18:53:30] <SaltyBones> The point is, trust relationships change but sometimes you notice too late.
[18:53:36] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:53:46] <SaltyBones> However, very often they don't.
[18:53:49] *** lumi shows as "xa" and his status message is "(Idle 60 min)"
[18:53:58] <moparisthebest> besides if you live with a server admin and use their server
[18:54:09] <moparisthebest> and switch to using google, they can also just mitm you or hack your computer
[18:54:14] <moparisthebest> so what's the point here
[18:54:24] <Zash> Having the server admin within a stones throw could serve as an incentive... :)
[18:55:23] <SaltyBones> So, I run my server with a friend who lives in a different country. Your argument simply does not apply.
[18:55:31] <jonasw> moparisthebest, different levels of criminal energy needed
[18:56:13] <SaltyBones> jonasw: maybe, all those things are pretty easy once you go down that road ;)
[18:56:14] <jjrh> Probably a more likely scenario is your wifes aunt runs a email server and snoops most likely unintentionally. The point is more that just because someone at google is - as you said constantly violating your privacy - the likely hood of a - at least immediate - negative impact is far lower
[18:56:17] <jonasw> setting up a sophisticated MitM proxy, installing a rogue CA certificate and ensuring that it can’t be reasonably circumvented requires much more criminal energy compared to grep -Rni "interesting thing" /var/lib/prosody/
[18:56:33] *** marmistrz has joined the room
[18:56:57] <SaltyBones> jonasw: just installing $snooping_app is also pretty trivial.
[18:57:06] <moparisthebest> I mean I run a server for my family that lives in this house, plus my mom who doesn't
[18:57:14] <moparisthebest> but I also handle all the stuff on my mom's computer too
[18:57:21] <moparisthebest> whether I snoop on the server is irrelevent
[18:57:27] *** daniel has joined the room
[18:57:30] <jonasw> also fun fact: i recently heard a fun story from employees at a *large* international payment processor. apparantly it’s common to find some amusement in the transaction comments, especially since some .. uhm .. adult recreational toy? stores appear to put your whole order list in there :)
[18:57:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[18:57:53] <SaltyBones> jjrh: What bothers me about this is that long term all this data collection about us might have negative consequences. And then it will be very hard to fix. :)
[18:57:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:58:00] <moparisthebest> if this is a problem for you the solution is e2e not switch to google
[18:58:03] <moparisthebest> that's insane
[18:58:06] *** tim@boese-ban.de has joined the room
[18:58:22] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:58:43] <moparisthebest> SaltyBones, yea it's just harmless data until it gets you and generations of your descendents murdered https://jacquesmattheij.com/if-you-have-nothing-to-hide
[18:58:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:58:46] <jonasw> jjrh, precisely the reason why I hate to debug email issues. it often involves looking at logs or data i don’t even want to see.
[18:58:51] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[18:58:51] *** intosi has left the room
[18:59:28] <jjrh> I'm by no means saying it's better to use google/be a needle in a haystack. Just that the arguement holds some validity that it's probably true privacy violations with negative impacts are more likely from friends and family.
[19:00:15] <moparisthebest> well that entirely depends on the specific situation you are in though
[19:00:19] *** Guus has left the room
[19:00:22] <moparisthebest> cheating on your wife - true
[19:00:29] <moparisthebest> planning to blow up a power plant - false
[19:01:30] *** Kev has left the room
[19:01:52] *** daniel has left the room
[19:01:57] *** daniel has joined the room
[19:02:00] <jjrh> That's true and really we are basing the idea it's more likely off the assumption the majority of murders/sexual abuse are from friends and family equates to privacy
[19:02:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:02:51] <jjrh> Which sounds reasonable but I don't actually know if that's true or not.
[19:04:21] <moparisthebest> if your family is the murdering/abusive type then maybe consider using a different provider
[19:04:28] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:04:35] <moparisthebest> OR MAYBE MOVE AWAY OR SOMETHING MORE SENSIBLE THAN CONSIDERING CHAT PROVIDERS
[19:04:52] <jonasw> it’s not always as simple as that, I bet
[19:04:59] <Zash> It's never easy
[19:05:01] <jonasw> relationships are much more tricky than "don’t do that"
[19:05:37] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:06:49] *** Alex has joined the room
[19:07:12] *** Guus has left the room
[19:07:12] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:07:12] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:08:01] *** lumi shows as "online"
[19:10:53] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:11:33] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:11:54] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:13:05] *** jere has joined the room
[19:13:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:14:35] *** rion shows as "away"
[19:14:55] *** rion shows as "away"
[19:15:09] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:15:09] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:16:17] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:17:04] <jjrh> I tend to want to implicitly trust someone. If I can't trust that you won't ignore the email client I left open when you're checking something unrelated why would I associate with you?
[19:17:34] *** andy has left the room
[19:18:10] <Zash> Society is built on lots and lots of implicit trust in others.
[19:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[19:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[19:18:31] <Zash> Crypto is actually kinda weird in that regard
[19:18:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:19:19] <jjrh> Not really - if we could actually trust everyone no one would think about crypto
[19:20:02] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:22:20] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:22:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:23:11] <Zash> I mean, a locked door isn't really all that secure, but it's a social signal and you trust most people to respect that most of the time.
[19:23:11] <Zash> .
[19:23:39] <Zash> Net-hickup
[19:23:40] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:25:02] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:25:12] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[19:25:35] <jjrh> I mean if no one stole anything we wouldn't lock doors
[19:25:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:26:08] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[19:26:23] *** Zash has left the room
[19:26:23] *** Zash has left the room
[19:26:35] *** Zash has joined the room
[19:26:35] *** Zash shows as "online"
[19:27:49] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:27:51] *** Zash shows as "online"
[19:28:31] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[19:29:45] *** andy has joined the room
[19:29:51] *** lumi shows as "online"
[19:29:57] *** valo has joined the room
[19:30:00] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[19:30:57] <moparisthebest> I know people who still don't
[19:31:06] *** Tobias has joined the room
[19:31:14] <moparisthebest> I think that's a little dumb, but it's never been a problem yet...
[19:32:12] <Zash> The lock itself is only a part of why.
[19:32:16] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:32:57] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[19:32:58] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:33:18] *** Nekit shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:33:24] <Zash> Morality, the justice system and insurance
[19:33:48] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[19:34:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:35:40] *** andy has left the room
[19:35:41] <Zash> The locks themselves just need to be enough of a road block that someone who gets past it clearly demonstrated intent
[19:36:23] <moparisthebest> well there are people that would take something if it wasn't locked, but would never break a lock
[19:36:34] <moparisthebest> that saying a lock keeps an honest man honest or something
[19:36:40] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:37:53] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:37:56] *** rtq3 has left the room
[19:38:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:38:09] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[19:38:31] *** dwd has left the room
[19:39:40] *** Nekit shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:41:28] *** dwd has left the room
[19:41:28] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:41:30] *** Guus has left the room
[19:41:31] *** Guus shows as "online"
[19:41:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:42:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:45:13] *** andy has joined the room
[19:45:37] *** dwd has joined the room
[19:47:15] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:47:41] *** dwd has left the room
[19:47:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:47:49] *** Neustradamus shows as "online"
[19:48:10] *** Kev has joined the room
[19:48:11] *** Kev shows as "online"
[19:49:15] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:49:40] *** Nekit shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:49:51] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[19:49:56] *** Alex shows as "online"
[19:50:03] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[19:50:17] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[19:50:18] *** Maranda has left the room
[19:50:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:51:35] *** lumi shows as "online"
[19:53:48] *** rtq3 has left the room
[19:54:02] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[19:54:09] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:54:19] *** Guus has left the room
[19:54:21] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:56:31] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:57:48] *** rtq3 has left the room
[19:58:05] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[19:58:11] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:58:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:58:41] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:58:53] *** andy has left the room
[19:58:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[19:59:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[19:59:56] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[20:02:34] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:02:40] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:02:45] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:03:04] *** andy has joined the room
[20:04:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:05:18] *** dwd has left the room
[20:05:46] *** Maranda has joined the room
[20:06:24] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:07:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:08:49] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[20:09:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:09:08] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:09:17] *** Guus has left the room
[20:09:17] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:09:33] *** lumi shows as "online"
[20:12:03] *** rtq3 has left the room
[20:12:41] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[20:13:04] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[20:13:07] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:13:27] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[20:13:54] *** Nekit has left the room
[20:13:55] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[20:14:48] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:15:09] *** rion has left the room
[20:16:35] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:16:38] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:16:39] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:16:48] <jjrh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLjifumRk3Q
[20:16:56] *** dwd has left the room
[20:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:19:06] *** jjrh has left the room
[20:19:06] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[20:19:07] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:19:34] *** Guus has left the room
[20:19:34] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:19:56] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[20:20:46] *** jjrh has left the room
[20:20:48] <Seve> -w can
[20:20:52] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:20:55] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[20:21:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:21:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:21:34] *** Alex has left the room
[20:22:59] *** efrit has joined the room
[20:23:35] *** andy has left the room
[20:24:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:24:36] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:24:53] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[20:25:04] *** dwd has left the room
[20:25:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:25:57] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:28:32] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:28:51] *** jubalh has joined the room
[20:29:07] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[20:29:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:29:56] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[20:29:57] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:30:02] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:30:02] *** Guus has left the room
[20:30:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:30:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:30:20] *** dwd has left the room
[20:30:55] *** jjrh has left the room
[20:30:57] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[20:31:34] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:31:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:32:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:32:22] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:32:26] *** jjrh has left the room
[20:32:56] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[20:33:08] *** jjrh has left the room
[20:33:08] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[20:33:25] *** lumi shows as "online"
[20:33:32] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:33:38] *** remko shows as "online"
[20:33:47] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:33:50] *** remko has left the room
[20:34:16] *** Guus has left the room
[20:34:28] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[20:34:29] <Ge0rG> E2EE won't solve the abusive admin problem, because the admin will just look for your metadata
[20:36:16] <moparisthebest> again totally depends on what you expect to remain private
[20:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:36:44] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:37:13] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:37:23] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:37:27] <moparisthebest> and I think we can do more to minimize metadata in xmpp, in combination with e2e
[20:37:46] *** dwd has left the room
[20:38:03] <Zash> Which point on the security vs convenience scale do you want?
[20:38:43] <moparisthebest> it's nice to be able to choose
[20:39:00] <jonasw> nah
[20:39:13] <Zash> Choice is hard
[20:39:23] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:39:34] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:39:34] <Ge0rG> moparisthebest: most people can't choose what they want, not even people from this MUC.
[20:39:51] <moparisthebest> have you seen that chat system someone made that requires 3 computers at each end that communicate over 1-way optical links ?
[20:40:03] <jonasw> kthxno
[20:40:08] <moparisthebest> I'm trying to find it but failing...
[20:40:22] <moparisthebest> anyway, that's the 'secure' end of the scale
[20:40:24] <Zash> Let's have that quantum entanglement thing, that'll probably solve all problems!
[20:40:36] <jonasw> I need a quantum bingo
[20:40:55] <jjrh> It's more what the default should be.
[20:41:08] <jjrh> majority of users will use what's default
[20:41:32] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:41:41] *** dwd has left the room
[20:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:42:32] *** derdaniel has joined the room
[20:42:50] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:42:51] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:42:54] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "online"
[20:43:16] <moparisthebest> found it https://github.com/maqp/tfc/
[20:43:27] <moparisthebest> Tinfoil Chat
[20:43:52] <Zash> Send a physical letter!
[20:43:55] <moparisthebest> the diagrams and entire system really is amazing
[20:43:57] <Zash> It's got way better legal protections afaik
[20:44:27] *** pep. shows as "online"
[20:44:29] *** pep. has left the room
[20:44:34] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:44:41] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[20:44:41] *** pep. shows as "online"
[20:46:30] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:46:43] *** lumi shows as "online"
[20:46:54] *** jonasw has left the room
[20:47:54] *** Kev has left the room
[20:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:48:22] *** valo has joined the room
[20:49:09] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:49:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:50:02] *** dwd has left the room
[20:51:21] *** andy has joined the room
[20:52:27] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[20:52:30] *** Nekit shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:52:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[20:52:50] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[20:53:02] *** waqas has joined the room
[20:56:54] *** dwd has joined the room
[20:57:21] *** efrit has left the room
[20:58:37] *** j.r has joined the room
[20:59:15] *** andy has left the room
[21:00:59] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:01:24] *** andy has joined the room
[21:01:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:01:47] *** dwd has left the room
[21:03:23] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:04:16] *** jere has left the room
[21:04:22] *** jere has joined the room
[21:05:00] *** goffi has left the room
[21:05:10] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:05:36] *** lumi shows as "away" and his status message is "(Idle 10 min)"
[21:07:36] *** andy has left the room
[21:07:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:09:57] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:10:28] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:12:07] *** Kev has joined the room
[21:12:08] *** Kev shows as "online"
[21:12:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:14:32] *** andy has joined the room
[21:15:28] *** j.r has joined the room
[21:15:42] *** lumi shows as "online"
[21:16:26] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:16:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:17:49] *** dwd has joined the room
[21:18:37] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:19:24] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:19:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:19:57] *** dwd has left the room
[21:23:15] *** dwd has joined the room
[21:23:17] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:24:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:24:38] *** dwd has left the room
[21:25:23] *** ralphm has left the room
[21:27:19] *** Guus has left the room
[21:27:28] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:27:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:29:31] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:30:56] *** dwd has joined the room
[21:30:56] *** Guus has left the room
[21:30:57] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:31:01] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:31:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:31:50] *** dwd has left the room
[21:33:04] *** Ge0rG has left the room
[21:34:10] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:34:45] *** marc has left the room
[21:35:04] *** marc shows as "online"
[21:35:51] *** Ge0rG shows as "online"
[21:36:05] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:38:09] *** lskdjf has left the room
[21:40:14] *** andy has left the room
[21:40:23] *** SaltyBones has left the room
[21:40:24] *** SaltyBones has joined the room
[21:40:34] *** dwd has joined the room
[21:40:55] *** andy has joined the room
[21:41:41] *** dwd has left the room
[21:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[21:45:20] *** jonasw shows as "away"
[21:45:46] *** marc has left the room
[21:46:24] <jjrh> Would be better with photocell and led's. I don't trust optocouplers black box.
[21:46:54] *** andy has left the room
[21:50:38] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[21:52:51] *** Nekit has left the room
[21:53:02] *** Seve/SouL has left the room
[21:53:05] *** Seve/SouL has joined the room
[21:53:26] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:53:26] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:55:14] <moparisthebest> yea I think he said the original design had that
[21:55:24] <moparisthebest> or that he based it off that or something
[21:55:32] <moparisthebest> you might as well go all the way if you are going this far I think
[21:55:56] <jjrh> yeah
[21:56:28] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:59:01] *** Bunneh has left the room
[21:59:10] *** Bunneh has joined the room
[21:59:10] *** Bunneh shows as "online"
[22:03:21] *** j.r has joined the room
[22:04:54] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[22:05:04] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:05:04] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[22:05:09] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[22:06:08] *** SaltyBones shows as "online"
[22:07:31] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:07:52] *** intosi has joined the room
[22:09:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:10:34] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:10:37] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:10:37] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:11:15] *** intosi has left the room
[22:12:21] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:13:44] *** Guus has left the room
[22:13:47] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:14:41] *** Guus has left the room
[22:14:41] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:14:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:15:48] *** Guus has left the room
[22:15:48] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:15:55] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:16:15] *** dwd has joined the room
[22:16:44] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:16:55] *** Guus has left the room
[22:16:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:16:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:18:32] *** waqas has left the room
[22:20:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:20:45] *** Guus has left the room
[22:20:54] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:21:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:21:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:22:21] *** andy has joined the room
[22:25:08] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:25:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:26:29] *** waqas has joined the room
[22:26:30] *** waqas has left the room
[22:27:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:27:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:27:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:28:18] *** andy has left the room
[22:29:49] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:30:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:30:23] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:30:24] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:30:32] *** Guus has left the room
[22:30:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:30:32] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:30:38] *** dwd has left the room
[22:31:15] *** Guus has left the room
[22:31:15] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:31:22] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:31:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:33:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:33:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:33:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:33:20] *** Guus has left the room
[22:34:48] *** rtq3 has left the room
[22:34:54] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[22:35:45] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:35:45] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:36:42] *** Guus has left the room
[22:36:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:36:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:37:57] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[22:38:00] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:38:06] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[22:38:18] *** dwd has joined the room
[22:38:41] *** dwd has left the room
[22:38:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:39:20] *** Guus has left the room
[22:39:21] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:39:21] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:40:45] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:40:45] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:41:14] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:41:36] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:42:16] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:42:20] *** Guus has left the room
[22:44:11] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:44:34] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:45:02] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:47:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:48:03] *** Guus has left the room
[22:48:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:49:16] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:49:18] *** Maranda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:49:18] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[22:49:19] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:49:23] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[22:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:52:34] *** dwd has joined the room
[22:53:19] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:56:41] *** dwd has left the room
[22:57:31] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:01:08] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:01:13] *** SamWhited has left the room
[23:02:09] *** valo has left the room
[23:02:12] *** valo has joined the room
[23:02:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:03:16] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:03:17] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:03:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:04:41] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:05:05] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:05:07] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[23:05:14] *** dwd has joined the room
[23:05:24] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:05:25] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:08:41] *** dwd has left the room
[23:11:37] *** rtq3 has left the room
[23:11:48] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:12:31] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:12:33] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:14:00] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:14:20] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:14:57] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:15:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:16:01] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:16:06] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:16:33] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:16:33] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:17:34] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:19:22] *** dwd has joined the room
[23:21:00] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:26:18] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:26:19] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:26:49] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:27:00] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:31:01] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:32:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:38:47] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:38:49] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:39:00] *** Guus has left the room
[23:39:00] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:39:23] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[23:39:44] *** Guus has left the room
[23:39:44] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:39:58] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:40:41] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:42:04] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:42:05] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:42:05] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[23:42:07] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:42:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:42:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:42:50] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:43:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:43:43] *** dwd has left the room
[23:43:54] *** Guus has left the room
[23:43:54] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:43:54] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:44:28] *** Guus has left the room
[23:44:29] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:44:36] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:44:51] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:45:12] *** lovetox shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:45:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:47:45] *** dwd has joined the room
[23:49:07] *** Guus has left the room
[23:49:08] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:49:08] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:50:09] *** Guus has left the room
[23:50:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:50:12] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:50:13] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:50:14] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:50:41] *** dwd has left the room
[23:51:03] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:51:04] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:52:51] *** dwd has joined the room
[23:53:24] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[23:53:41] *** dwd has left the room
[23:55:43] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:57:10] *** jjrh has left the room
[23:57:13] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:57:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:57:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:58:54] *** Guus shows as "online"