Saturday, March 03, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[00:00:34] *** winfried has joined the room
[00:01:11] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
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[00:26:11] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[00:35:39] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[00:41:37] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
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[01:03:10] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
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[02:30:35] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[04:06:20] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[04:08:20] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[04:12:44] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[04:42:19] *** Guus has left the room
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[05:14:30] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[05:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
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[05:42:02] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[05:42:55] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[05:57:01] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[05:57:09] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[05:58:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[06:18:58] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[07:11:20] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:13:54] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[07:20:39] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[07:22:48] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[07:22:49] *** intosi shows as "online"
[07:24:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:24:32] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[07:25:19] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[07:29:35] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:29:38] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[07:30:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[07:35:15] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[07:40:03] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[07:43:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[07:55:09] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[08:00:28] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
[08:00:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[08:06:54] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Доступен"
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[08:18:15] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[08:18:23] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[08:18:33] *** j.r has joined the room
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[11:33:36] <Syndace> Following recent discussions about an alternative OMEMO implementation (licensed under a more permissive license than GPL), I want to inform you, that I am currently revisiting my python implementation and I am very happy with what I'm seeing. My implementation uses pynacl (python bindings to the libsodium library), is licensed under MIT and was written from scratch not depending on libsignal.

The only puzzle piece I am missing is XEdDSA, which I have a hard time implementing myself. (I can't even tell you why, the algorithm is not too complex but somehow it just won't work :D)

I expect the library to be ready for release about one week after I can get XEdDSA to work.
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[12:54:53] <Ge0rG> Syndace: it would be great to have more client developers on board, Gajim and poezio maybe?
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[13:00:31] <Zash> Has the XEP moved forward on that issue yet?
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[13:06:30] <Ge0rG> Are the implementations out there already using the XEP namespace?
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[13:27:37] <Syndace> Ge0rG, what do you mean "on board"? As soon as it's released I'm happy about anyone contributing or using the lib, whether the big clients will actually use it is not in my power to decide, but I'll be happy to adjust things to their likings.
[13:28:27] <Syndace> Also just to clarify, I'm not doing any xmpp stanza specific stuff, I'm only doing the crypto (and a bit of the wire format).
[13:28:31] <Ge0rG> Syndace: I'm not closely following the development, but AFAICT there are two different OMEMO libraries in python
[13:29:14] <Syndace> Ge0rG, AFAIK the other one is just a binding to libsignal and not actively maintained
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[13:29:40] <Syndace> ...and gpl aswell
[13:29:46] <Ge0rG> Syndace: either way, it might be a good thing to plug on the xmpp Newsletter
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[13:31:39] <Syndace> Oh, there is a newsletter... :D
[13:31:43] <pep.> What's the issue with GPL, it's not like it wouldn't work with gajim or poezio already. The distribution channel would have to be different that's it
[13:32:22] <pep.> Syndace: it's all new!
[13:33:31] <Syndace> GPL is a thing of taste, we had the discussion in jdev@ a few days ago. It's more about all the available implementations using libsignal, thus OMEMO can't really move forward.
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[13:36:49] <daniel> it's awesome that there will be a non-gpl library soon. however gpl hasn't really stopped omemo thus far. i think by now the number of omemo implementations outnumbers the number of jingle file transfer implementations
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[15:04:58] <moparisthebest> pep.: Whiny people who hate the gpl seem to be the only problem with the gpl :)
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[15:05:30] <moparisthebest> And yes that, seems people who do the actual work don't care, so just ignore the noise
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[15:09:46] <Zash> Counter-example: Swift?
[15:10:52] <SaltyBones> swift doesn't have omemo because of gpl?
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[15:17:19] <Zash> Disregarding people who can't use GPL code for legal reasons as "whiny peolpe"..
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[15:27:57] <marmistrz> Zash: can't they simply move to GPL?
[15:29:53] <Zash> It is GPL
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[15:33:42] <Zash> The issue was probably more complicated but I don't know all about that
[15:34:38] <Syndace> How do you send private messages in a MUC o.O?
[15:35:06] <Syndace> That's the first time I saw that :D
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[15:37:22] <SaltyBones> depends on your client ;)
[15:37:23] <SaltyBones> maybe you don't ;)
[15:37:49] <Syndace> Conversations atm?
[15:38:35] <Syndace> I'll just answer for everyone here: I don't have a channel or anything for my OMEMO hacking, it's just something I did on my own when I was bored :D
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[15:47:03] <SamWhited> Syndace: long press the persons avatar enters the private message mode
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[15:50:09] <Syndace> But if anyone wants to talk about it, feel free to create a small muc or pm me
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[15:55:07] <Syndace> SamWhited, ah thanks
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[16:17:08] <j.r> How can I make something like TTL for xmpp messages?
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[16:19:15] <daniel> I think it's pretty rare that a stanza has more than two hops...
[16:19:29] <Zash> MUC
[16:19:52] <daniel> Right
[16:20:06] <daniel> I was about to say. Maybe four if you count muc
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[16:30:07] <Ge0rG> Maybe the question is about actual time, not hop count?
[16:31:07] <Zash> -xep amp
[16:31:07] <Bunneh> Zash: Advanced Message Processing (Standards Track, Draft, 2005-11-30)
See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0079.html
[16:31:34] <Zash> That has expiry, right?
[16:31:49] <Zash> But does it have implementations?
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[16:32:37] <Ge0rG> https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0079.html#conditions-def-expireat
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[16:34:42] <j.r> > Maybe the question is about actual time, not hop count?
Yes
[16:35:34] <daniel> Amp is not a good xep if you want to implement self destructible messages
[16:35:39] <j.r> > https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0079.html#conditions-def-expireat
Does this also work with Clients? I mean do they delet the message after the expiration?
[16:35:49] <jonasw> probably not
[16:35:52] <daniel> Of course not.
[16:36:01] <daniel> Only works in proprietary systems
[16:37:40] <j.r> Yes and that's the thing I would have how can a already deliverd message be destroyed on the client?
[16:38:03] <daniel> Just make up your own extension
[16:38:59] <Zash> <clippy> It looks like you want to implement DRM. Please don't.
[16:40:20] <daniel> I lost count on how many times I implemented that
[16:40:28] <j.r> > <clippy> It looks like you want to implement DRM. Please don't.
No I just want self destroying messages like in Telegram
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[16:40:36] <jonasw> that’s DRM :-)
[16:40:47] <jonasw> j.r, self-destructing messages don’t really work in a federated system.
[16:40:55] <jonasw> they don’t even really work in a non-federated non-proprietary system
[16:41:03] <jonasw> but in a federated, non-proprietary system there’s no chance.
[16:41:12] <Zash> It's incompatible with universal turing machines under the control of users.
[16:41:18] <jonasw> yeah
[16:41:20] <Zash> Just like DRM
[16:41:25] <Zash> Logical impossibility.
[16:41:34] <jonasw> Zash, how about Secure Enclave? :>
[16:41:35] <daniel> jonasw: depends on your definition of work
[16:41:46] <jonasw> daniel, "is an actual security device which can be relied upon"
[16:41:51] <Zash> jonasw: I don't know what you are talking about and I probably don't want to.
[16:42:19] <j.r> OK so it isn't possible in Xmpp right?
[16:42:23] <Zash> And don't mention homomorphic computation!
[16:42:30] <daniel> j.r: yes it is.
[16:42:37] <daniel> But not in jabber
[16:42:53] <jonasw> Zash, let me ruin your day: that fancy feature in intel processors (SGX) where you can run stuff in isolation from the OS. nice for cloud users, because they can be sure that their stuff is untouched by the provider via remote attestation and whatnot. but in the end it’ll probably be used to make DRM (more) watertight.
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[16:45:35] <j.r> > j.r: yes it is.
> But not in jabber
OK bad to know
[16:45:58] <jonasw> you can of course invent something and try to make clients implement it. but if a new (or very old) client doesn’t implement it, tough luck.
[16:46:05] <jonasw> not to mention actively evil clients
[16:46:41] <j.r> > you can of course invent something and try to make clients implement it. but if a new (or very old) client doesn’t implement it, tough luck.
> not to mention actively evil clients
Ok
[16:47:13] <jonasw> but an actively evil telegram client or a thing which screencaps the device/whatever would do the same
[16:47:17] <jonasw> self-destructing messages is bullshit
[16:48:27] <Zash> You can have an <please-delete-me after="timestamp"/>, but you can't be 100% sure that it'll be respected
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[16:48:32] <Zash> If you are ok with that then go for it
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[16:49:00] <jonasw> yeah, that
[16:49:08] <Zash> Altho that applies to all protocol
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[16:50:55] <j.r> > You can have an <please-delete-me after="timestamp"/>, but you can't be 100% sure that it'll be respected
> If you are ok with that then go for it
But that's possible?
[16:51:17] <Zash> Thanks to the X in XMPP, yes
[16:52:07] <Zash> And with caps, you can know if other clients claim to suppport it
[16:52:26] <Zash> But with MAM and carbons...
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[16:54:19] <jonasw> you’d have to check that all the peers clients and the peers MAM support it.
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[16:54:33] <Zash> And your own MAM
[16:54:35] <jonasw> and then hope that they don’t come online after you sending t he message with another client which supports MAM but not your fancy deletion protocol
[16:54:38] <jonasw> yeah, that too
[16:54:38] <Zash> and your own other clients
[16:55:20] <jonasw> lots of moving parts
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[16:56:21] <Zash> So, not really something that can reliably be deployed in an open system
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[17:01:05] <j.r> OK thank you
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[17:06:54] <Kev> Deeply offtopic, but - if installing a Linux desktop these days, does one bother with swap? 16GB RAM.
[17:07:08] <jonasw> Kev, depends on whether you want to be able to do suspend-to-disk
[17:07:27] <jonasw> if not, probably not. killing whatever is eating 16 GiB RAM is *probably* better than freezing your system while trying to swap.
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[17:07:44] <Kev> Ta.
[17:07:46] <jonasw> especially if you do development work. I always try to remember to swapoff -a just in case I create memleak.
[17:07:52] <jonasw> *create a memleak
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[17:08:27] <Kev> Just put an SSD in my games laptop and thought I might as well dual-boot Ubuntu. So let's see how badly this wrecks booting Windows :)
[17:08:28] <Zash> Swap enabled but swappiness tuned down
[17:08:36] <jonasw> (I once had a memleak which filled memory *so* fast that I didn’t realize it was a memleak and thought it was just killing the GPU (some graphics stuff). took me a while to realize...)
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[17:10:01] <Kev> Good show.
[17:10:21] <Zash> IIRC the thing is that without swap, you get the OOM killer as soon as memory is filled
[17:10:38] <jonasw> yeah, that’s a feature if memory isn’t going to be filled unless by accident
[17:11:09] <Zash> s/by accident/by hip electron app of the month/
[17:11:16] *jonasw looks at free
[17:11:27] <pep.> Kev: I don't have swap tbh, but I'm not a RAM eater
[17:11:37] <jonasw> Kev, okay, add some swap. I am currently at 21 GiB used and I don’t even know how.
[17:11:45] <jonasw> much of it seems to be firefox
[17:11:46] *Zash looks at htop
[17:11:49] <Kev> Too late now, OS is half installed :(
[17:11:51] <Zash> Why is all my RAM used?
[17:12:03] <jonasw> ah well
[17:12:23] <Zash> WebKitWebProcess 25..38
[17:12:29] <Zash> And Firefox
[17:12:42] <jonasw> Kev, yeah, it’ll probably be fine. and if it isn’t, you can still add a swapfile
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[17:16:43] <pep.> Also btrfs. I would need to have a separate partition not as a volume like my rootfs or homefs
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[17:21:01] *Zash has vm.swappiness=10 now apparently
[17:21:41] <Zash> I read some long rant that convinced me that running without swap was bad and swappiness=0 was bad
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[18:56:30] <Ge0rG> pep.: you should stop whatever you are doing and migrate away from btrfd
[18:56:35] <Ge0rG> *btrfs
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[19:27:40] <marc> Ge0rG, are you going to respond to Kevs mail regarding 401?
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[19:28:11] <Ge0rG> marc: the one about using data forms?
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[19:29:20] <marc> Ge0rG, the last one from 28.02
[19:29:20] <marc> ping
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[19:34:33] <Ge0rG> marc: I came to the conclusion that Kev is right and that data forms are the right way to go
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[19:36:24] <marc> Ge0rG: okay, if everybody is fine with it let's merge my two PRs?
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[19:37:27] <Ge0rG> marc: yes please. Cc jonasw
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[19:37:28] <Ge0rG> marc: yes please. Cc jonasw
[19:37:28] <Ge0rG> marc: yes please. Cc jonasw
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[19:38:02] <marc> Ge0rG: did you write the last message two times?
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[19:38:25] <moparisthebest> j.r: is there any protocol where self destructing messages work?
[19:38:28] <Ge0rG> marc: no, it looks like a bug in yaxim
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[19:38:48] <moparisthebest> Ie that prevents even something simple like a picture of the screen
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[19:39:07] <marc> Ge0rG: okay, because C shows it two times, Gajim only once
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[19:39:32] <moparisthebest> Because you could implement it in xmpp the same way, and it'd work with the same level of security, that is, none
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[19:42:37] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:43:05] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:43:09] <Ge0rG> And yaxim shows it three times. 🤦‍♂️
[19:43:12] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:43:13] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:43:40] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:43:48] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:44:15] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:44:22] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:44:26] <Zash> I see three, last one delayed
[19:44:46] <Zash> Out of order too
[19:44:50] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:44:57] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:45:25] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:45:38] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:45:47] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:45:47] <marc> strange
[19:45:55] <Ge0rG> Could somebody pm me the raw xml please
[19:46:00] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:46:13] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:46:35] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:46:43] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:47:10] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:47:23] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:47:37] *** lovetox shows as "online"
[19:47:45] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:48:02] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:48:19] *** Guus has left the room
[19:48:22] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:48:36] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:48:59] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:49:03] *** Fabian has left the room
[19:49:12] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:49:13] *** jjrh has left the room
[19:49:14] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[19:49:34] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:49:41] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:50:09] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:50:16] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:50:44] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:50:54] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:51:19] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:51:26] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[19:52:33] *** lovetox has left the room
[19:54:58] *** pep. shows as "online"
[19:56:29] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[19:57:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:59:36] <Ge0rG> Oh, looks like a race condition during stream resumption, where sending a message right before <resumed/> will duplicate it
[20:00:07] <Ge0rG> And then it also becomes an "offline message" in yaxim, causing a third transmission
[20:00:16] <Zash> It doesn't actually get sent on the wire before <resumed/> tho?
[20:00:18] <Zash> orwait
[20:00:28] <Ge0rG> Zash: it's sent after <resume>
[20:01:05] <Zash> Between <resume> and <resumed> be dragons.
[20:02:07] *** daniel has left the room
[20:02:29] *** daniel shows as "online"
[20:03:12] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:03:20] <Ge0rG> Yes. Plenty of them
[20:03:41] <Zash> It's nice being the server in that case.
[20:06:06] *** mimi89999 has joined the room
[20:07:46] <Ge0rG> Zash: because you can just queue messages as long as there is a zombie session?
[20:08:00] *** daniel has left the room
[20:08:14] *** rtq3 has left the room
[20:08:20] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[20:10:28] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:10:28] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:12:26] *** daniel shows as "online"
[20:14:17] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[20:25:07] *** lskdjf has left the room
[20:29:25] *** j.r has left the room
[20:29:47] *** j.r has joined the room
[20:30:44] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:32:29] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[20:33:09] *** rion has left the room
[20:39:02] *** mimi89999 shows as "online"
[20:39:06] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:39:06] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:39:34] *** j.r has joined the room
[20:40:42] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:41:45] *** efrit has joined the room
[20:43:58] *** Guus shows as "online"
[20:49:14] *** moparisthebest has joined the room
[20:49:24] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:49:25] *** intosi shows as "online"
[20:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:51:55] *** winfried shows as "online"
[20:54:19] *** Guus has left the room
[20:54:38] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[20:54:38] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[20:56:17] *** lskdjf has joined the room
[20:56:21] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[21:02:07] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:02:08] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:06:42] *** Alex has left the room
[21:14:00] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:14:22] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[21:15:43] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:15:43] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
[21:17:14] *** intosi has left the room
[21:20:40] *** Kev shows as "online"
[21:21:46] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:21:46] *** ThurahT shows as "away"
[21:24:31] *** Alex has joined the room
[21:31:43] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[21:33:18] *** Nekit shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[21:33:32] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[21:34:11] *** Syndace has joined the room
[21:38:57] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:41:38] *** SamWhited has left the room
[21:41:52] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:42:08] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:44:27] *** Guus shows as "online"
[21:45:31] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:46:08] *** jjrh has left the room
[21:46:08] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[21:47:44] *** jere has joined the room
[21:48:45] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:48:46] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:49:17] *** dwd has left the room
[21:50:48] *** dwd has joined the room
[21:51:19] *** Guus has left the room
[21:51:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[21:51:23] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[21:52:03] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:54:48] *** jubalh has joined the room
[21:58:57] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:59:41] *** dwd has left the room
[22:05:06] *** goffi has left the room
[22:05:48] *** marc has left the room
[22:06:26] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:07:53] *** boothj5 has joined the room
[22:10:13] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[22:11:34] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:14:52] *** jubalh shows as "online"
[22:16:21] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:16:22] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:16:22] *** dwd has left the room
[22:16:30] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[22:16:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:17:03] *** dwd has joined the room
[22:18:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:19:24] *** SamWhited shows as "online"
[22:21:54] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[22:22:11] *** marmistrz has left the room
[22:26:24] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[22:26:24] *** Guus shows as "online"
[22:27:09] *** Alex has left the room
[22:28:10] *** Kev has left the room
[22:29:15] *** mrdoctorwho shows as "online"
[22:29:41] *** dwd has left the room
[22:32:44] *** Nekit shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:32:57] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:32:57] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:34:50] *** la|r|ma has left the room
[22:35:36] *** Nekit shows as "online"
[22:37:40] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:37:42] *** daniel has left the room
[22:37:43] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:39:12] *** vanitasvitae shows as "online"
[22:39:19] *** marmistrz has left the room
[22:39:19] *** Guus has left the room
[22:39:45] *** Nekit has left the room
[22:39:50] *** jubalh has left the room
[22:40:13] *** marmistrz has joined the room
[22:40:31] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:40:38] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:40:58] *** marmistrz has left the room
[22:41:34] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[22:43:09] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:43:12] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:43:41] *** marmistrz has joined the room
[22:50:29] *** vanitasvitae has left the room
[22:50:35] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:50:35] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:50:56] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[22:52:53] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[22:55:15] *** marmistrz has left the room
[22:57:34] *** Maranda has left the room
[22:57:46] *** Maranda shows as "online"
[23:01:23] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:03:21] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:06:53] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:08:27] *** lskdjf shows as "away"
[23:09:14] *** lskdjf shows as "online"
[23:15:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:18:33] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:20:14] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[23:23:31] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[23:23:32] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[23:24:00] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:24:24] <edhelas> https://petermolnar.net/instant-messenger-hell/
[23:30:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:31:24] *** SamWhited has left the room
[23:31:41] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:36:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:36:59] *** rtq3 has left the room
[23:37:05] *** rtq3 has joined the room
[23:44:06] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:45:37] *** marmistrz has joined the room
[23:53:25] *** Guus shows as "online"
[23:53:36] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:54:15] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:54:19] *** Guus has left the room
[23:54:40] *** marmistrz shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[23:56:13] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[23:56:20] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
[23:56:29] *** marmistrz has left the room
[23:57:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[23:59:24] *** Dave Cridland has left the room