Friday, March 09, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[00:55:32] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
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[04:37:58] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[04:38:25] *** Guus has left the room
[04:39:48] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
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[05:19:43] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[05:20:07] *** mimi89999 has left the room
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[05:38:41] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
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[06:07:06] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[06:29:00] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[06:30:55] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[06:43:32] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[06:43:32] *** dwd shows as "online"
[06:43:45] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[06:44:58] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
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[06:58:28] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[06:58:28] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[06:59:19] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[07:08:28] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[07:08:28] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[07:14:06] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[07:14:17] *** winfried has joined the room
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[07:22:42] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
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[07:23:53] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[07:26:24] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[07:27:56] *** Guus shows as "online"
[07:28:01] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[07:43:53] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[07:46:09] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
[07:46:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[07:47:13] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[07:48:54] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[07:48:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[07:49:40] *** Tobias shows as "online"
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[07:51:22] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[07:51:33] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[07:51:35] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[07:55:43] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
[07:56:22] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[07:57:42] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
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[08:01:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[08:03:04] *** dwd shows as "online"
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[08:09:32] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[08:15:52] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:15:52] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[08:19:52] *** Steve Kille has left the room
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[08:25:52] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:25:52] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[08:25:52] *** Steve Kille shows as "away" and his status message is "At Home"
[08:26:41] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "At Home"
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[09:24:22] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
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[10:23:51] *** Yagiza shows as "online" and his status message is "Online"
[10:25:43] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
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[10:34:48] *** Yagiza shows as "away" and his status message is "Автостатус из-за бездействия более чем 10 минут"
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[10:35:58] <Ge0rG> flow: now that MUCs SHOULD retain message @ids, would you remove <origin-id> from 0359? :)
[10:36:13] *** tux shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Work work …"
[10:36:26] <jonasw> and then we’re gonna burn 0359 and re-integrate stanza-id into MAM?
[10:36:52] <jonasw> + a "Best Practices for Message IDs" informational XEP referenced from all the XEPs which reference message IDs
[10:37:32] <Ge0rG> jonasw: awesome idea
[10:37:53] <Ge0rG> "This document is a patch of RFC 6120" ;)
[10:38:03] <jonasw> i.e. "use at least 120 bits of entropy, however you do that. a uuid4 is fine, if seeded from a proper CSPRNG"
[10:39:12] <Ge0rG> "please don't use hex-encoding"
[10:40:04] <jonasw> doesn’t matter, in the end. if implementations have easy access to a CSPRNG-seeded uuid4, I prefer them using that over building their own thing which uses rand()
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[10:40:39] *** ralphm shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[10:40:58] <Ge0rG> Lazy but effective
[10:41:05] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[10:41:16] <Ge0rG> I still hate the 50% bit efficency of hex encoding.
[10:41:22] <jonasw> I do too
[10:41:28] <jonasw> and uuids don’t improve that with their dashes
[10:41:33] <Ge0rG> Right.
[10:41:45] <jonasw> getrandom | base64 is my favourite, but yeah.
[10:41:56] <jonasw> urlsafe base64 probably
[10:42:01] <Ge0rG> But this is probably a sign of the times, where people bundle a 500KB JavaScript application into a 700MB runtime
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[10:42:22] <jonasw> or implement IM clients whose core message view component is a browser engine.
[10:42:36] <Ge0rG> it's webviews all the way down
[10:42:40] <jonasw> yeah
[10:42:57] <jonasw> (tbf, I plan to implement a non-webview thing optionally for the type of folks who prefer compact monospaced things)
[10:43:11] <jonasw> no embedded youtube for those then though!
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[11:14:56] *** winfried shows as "online"
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[11:16:10] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
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[11:19:25] <Ge0rG> jonasw: you can add another [X] into https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/601 ;)
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[11:30:28] *** Alex shows as "online"
[11:31:25] *** tux shows as "xa" and his status message is "Gone for Food"
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[11:37:43] <jonasw> t
[11:38:05] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[11:56:27] *** tim@boese-ban.de shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Nicht verfügbar wegen Untätigkeit seit mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[11:58:39] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[11:58:43] *** Alex shows as "online"
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[12:05:24] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Hampton"
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[14:51:21] <jonasw> so how should a modern client pick it’s resource?
[14:51:36] <jonasw> generate a random ID (4-6 chars) and use "$clientname.$randomid"?
[14:51:48] <jonasw> for extra fubar, use emoji as random ID :-)
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[14:52:00] <MattJ> jonasw, that's my personal preference these days
[14:52:01] <jonasw> (for extra fubar, I could use emoji as random ID :-))
[14:52:19] <MattJ> Even though I spent years telling Ge0rG he was wrong
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[14:52:27] <MattJ> for this, and for sending to bare JIDs
[14:52:28] <daniel> Yes that's what I'm doing
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[14:52:40] <jonasw> what did change your mind about the resource thing?
[14:52:42] <daniel> 3 bytes random in base64
[14:52:47] <daniel> That's four chars
[14:53:03] <MattJ> jonasw, the realisation that the server can override it, so it really doesn't matter - and it's useful for tracking devices
[14:53:14] <jonasw> right
[14:53:17] <MattJ> My preference would be that bind2 comes along with a device-id built-in
[14:53:42] <MattJ> But until that day, this works fine (and is backwards-compatible with all the clients that allow manual resources)
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[14:56:04] *Ge0rG waves his "told you so" sign
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[14:57:34] <Dave Cridland> I just use a fixed resource string.
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[14:58:24] <Zash> Holy war!
[14:58:42] <MattJ> Server developers will always win this one
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[15:02:23] <Ge0rG> MattJ: server developers might have the bigger lever, but they don't win by just applying it
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[15:03:39] <Ge0rG> They can make life miserable for everyone, but in my book that's not synonymous to "win
[15:04:32] <MattJ> and here I thought the definition of "to win" was "to make life miserable for everyone who lost"
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[15:09:50] <Ge0rG> MattJ: I'd say "to win" also includes making life better for yourself
[15:09:55] <Ge0rG> Unless you are in for the game.
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[20:40:26] *** marmistrz shows as "online"
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[20:41:17] *** daniel shows as "online"
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[20:45:48] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[20:55:16] *** jjrh shows as "online"
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[21:00:40] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[21:38:39] *** xnyhps shows as "online"
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[21:38:49] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:38:50] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[21:38:50] *** Maranda shows as "online"
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[22:05:56] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[22:07:21] *** jjrh shows as "online"
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[22:08:02] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[22:08:09] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:10:09] *** Guus has left the room
[22:11:15] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[22:20:17] *** xnyhps shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[22:21:43] *** jjrh has left the room
[22:21:45] *** jjrh shows as "online"
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[22:40:31] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:40:32] *** Maranda shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:40:34] *** Maranda shows as "online" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:40:46] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[22:47:10] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[23:00:30] *** SamWhited has left the room
[23:02:37] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:03:13] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[23:04:12] *** pep. shows as "online"
[23:07:11] *** Dave Cridland has left the room
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[23:15:21] *** moparisthebest shows as "online"
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[23:18:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[23:26:03] *** jjrh shows as "online"
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[23:40:34] *** Guus shows as "online"
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[23:46:27] *** jjrh shows as "online"
[23:46:27] *** Steve Kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Swift RC6"
[23:46:59] *** jubalh has left the room
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[23:47:32] *** jjrh shows as "online"
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[23:54:00] *** ThurahT shows as "online"
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