XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2018-03-18


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  3. Neustradamus For info: https://dev.gajim.org/gajim/gajim/blob/gajim-1.0.0/ChangeLog
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  285. edhelas Dave Cridland hi :)
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  401. Zash Where do I vote for having Dave be put in charge of naming things?
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  404. Kev Try the having-vote-place.
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  406. Zash So I just put "Dave gets to name things" on a blank vote in the coming general elections?
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  419. jonasw :D
  420. jonasw I wasn’t sure whether he was drunk and whether I should really merge that :-)
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  574. goffi https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16611579
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  583. Ge0rG Pigeon, one of the two big players in xmpp.
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  591. tim@boese-ban.de looking at my roster, its still widely used :(
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  634. Ge0rG tim@boese-ban.de: I've heard of a client called Pidgin, which has a pigeon logo.
  635. tim@boese-ban.de Ge0rG, I think the author wanted to say pidgin
  636. waqas I've also heard about it
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  638. Ge0rG tim@boese-ban.de: I don't know. Maybe. But even then, claiming that pidgin and empathy, of all, are the important clients, is a very wide stretch
  639. Neustradamus Ge0rG: ah ah
  640. Neustradamus gaim :D
  641. Ge0rG It's like I would use my HN karma to advertise yaxim, which nobody has ever heard of.
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  643. Neustradamus http://www.tuteurs.ens.fr/logiciels/gaim_1.png
  644. Ge0rG ,oO( https://du7ybees82p4m.cloudfront.net/5710e5c78b7945.23147303.jpg?width=910&height=512 )
  645. Neustradamus Miam
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  649. Zash Ge0rG: The are or have been shipped by major distros as The Default, so it's safe to assume that they are widely used.
  650. Ge0rG That sounds like the Internet Explorer argument.
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  652. Zash Ge0rG: I suppose "important" isn't the right word
  653. Zash But something
  654. Zash The IE situation is not too far off tho.
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  682. Ge0rG The new bookmarks looks like a sensible cleanup of the old mess, but it's not going far enough in my eyes. It would be nice to have some kind of per device / per device class autojoin, and the nickname should be stored either centrally or in each bookmark to prevent conversations from automatically using my local part
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  685. Zash There's a XEP for that
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  687. Zash The Centralized Canonical Nickname
  688. Zash -xep user nickname
  689. Bunneh Zash: User Nickname (Standards Track, Draft, 2012-03-21) See: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0172.html
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  700. Ge0rG So all the user's clients should subscribe to the pep node.
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  752. moparisthebest Ge0rG: that sounds good, I have mucs I want to autojoin everywhere but also mucs I only want to autojoin from the desktop
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  785. lovetox but this seems a bit complicated to me
  786. lovetox how would you identify the devices?
  787. lovetox with resource seems a bit flaky
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  789. MattJ I think clients should just keep their own overrides
  790. MattJ trying to categorise clients is too complex
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  792. lovetox yeah so if you bookmark a channel from your phone, and you have a checkbox "autojoin only from this device", the client should set autojoin=false to pep, and save a override for this bookmark localy in the db
  793. lovetox so this works also now, no need to add anything to the xep
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  799. MattJ Yep
  800. MattJ and clients don't have to support this if they don't want to, so it keeps the protocol simple
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  802. lovetox so how far are we in prosody with publish options and persistence support?
  803. MattJ persistence is in trunk, if you enable mod_pep_plus (this is still considered 'beta', and will be merged into mod_pep after more people have tested it)
  804. MattJ publish-options is in progress, mostly done I think, I just need to test it
  805. lovetox what i also thought when ready the new xep, would it not be easier to let the server just set the correct node config for the new bookmark namespace
  806. lovetox instead of hoping that every dev reads the xep and applies publish options
  807. lovetox *read
  808. Holger Then again the client dev can't just blindly publish bookmarks hoping the server will do that.
  809. lovetox if its written in the xep that the server must do this ..
  810. Holger It's not today.
  811. Holger Ah the new one.
  812. lovetox its also not mentioned there
  813. lovetox but there is something in there, that the server has to merge items or stuff
  814. lovetox so server has to do something for this xep anyway
  815. MattJ oh really?
  816. MattJ I'd better read it then...
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  819. lovetox When a client publishes a new item, the server MAY collate all items, casting them into the 'storage:bookmarks' namespace and setting the jid attribute to the item id in each case.
  820. lovetox but yeah all optional
  821. pep. Dave Cridland, what are the "security reasons" mentioned for the password field? Is it because you don't want that to be clear on the server? Or on the client? (or both)
  822. pep. Also SamWhited ^
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  824. lovetox i find this a bit overboard to remove password from the xep
  825. pep. same
  826. lovetox only because the admin of the server can read the password?
  827. lovetox so what nobody cares
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  829. lovetox regular people just set the password to hinder other regular people to join the channel
  830. lovetox not to protect super secret information from bad server admins
  831. lovetox its probably easier for the admin to just read the logs
  832. MattJ If you're protecting from the admin, they can just reset your password and log in as you and join a members-only room anyway
  833. lovetox also the description: Unencrypted string for the password needed to enter a password-protected room.
  834. lovetox it would not help in any way if the password would be unkown to the admin
  835. waqas There's technically sasl for MUC, but I think Prosody is the only implementation, don't think any clients implement it.
  836. lovetox admin can do what he wants
  837. waqas But as MattJ said, admins can usually reset passwords, and often just modify the server if they want to
  838. lovetox so i even question the "not recommended"
  839. lovetox i think this stems from a time, where xmpp connections where not TLS secured
  840. lovetox or it was not that common
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  842. lovetox *were
  843. MattJ but then an attacker would see the password when you send it to the room anyway...
  844. MattJ and so would the server admin :)
  845. MattJ mod_log_room_passwords would be trivial :)
  846. MattJ so yes, I don't think this is really protecting anyone from anything
  847. lovetox no i meant the warning about sending passwords unencrypted stems from a time where TLS was not common
  848. MattJ Right
  849. lovetox today i see no problem with it because we can assume everything is TLS
  850. lovetox and we cant do anything against admin anyway
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  852. MattJ The only other thing you might be protecting against is someone who gains access to your account
  853. MattJ If passwords are not in bookmarks, a new device has to ask for passwords for autojoin MUCs on initial use
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  855. lovetox first thing that will happen if we dont sync passwords, people will come and ask for password sync xep :D
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  857. pep. MattJ, I think at this point you've pretty much lost already
  858. pep. I wouldn't worry about some random MUC's passwords
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  860. MattJ The MUC owner may :)
  861. pep. You can just change the password..
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  873. lovetox is there any client that has some cool concept for message type "normal" ?
  874. pep. I think psi has a different view for them
  875. lovetox gajim now opens a single email like window, where you can answer and prev message is quoted
  876. Ge0rG lovetox: will that window steal focus?
  877. pep. MattJ, one issue I can see is another user gaining access to the muc, and then mam_muc
  878. lovetox Ge0rG, depends, default you get only a notification and if you open the notification the window opens
  879. pep. Not sure what to do exactly for this, but I don't think the issue is the password
  880. lovetox so no, its not that horrible
  881. Ge0rG Ah, that's okay I suppose
  882. lovetox :D
  883. lovetox i mean i could make a window like a email client
  884. lovetox that looks like a inbox
  885. lovetox and all messages go in there
  886. lovetox but this really feels weird, like if you want email just use email
  887. Ge0rG lovetox: and are there still dialogs in 1.0 where the JID is split into two input fields for local part and host?
  888. Ge0rG lovetox: and are there still dialogs in 1.0 where the JID is split into two input fields for local part and host?
  889. Ge0rG lovetox: and are there still dialogs in 1.0 where the JID is split into two input fields for local part and host?
  890. Ge0rG Sigh. I really need to fix this race condition.
  891. lovetox wow you sent this message 3 times
  892. pep. :D
  893. lovetox am yes i know its a wish of yours, but account creation assistent has not been reworked
  894. lovetox but i guess its a good idea to add for the gajim 1.1 milestone
  895. Ge0rG lovetox: I wrote it during a stream resume, so it was first delivered normally but didn't count for the stanza counter, then it was delivered again by 0198 and then again by the sync after connect code. It's a nasty race condition I really need to fix
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  897. pep. Ge0rG, at least you're not losing the message :-°
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