Friday, March 23, 2018
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[08:05:11] <Ge0rG> Sigh. How one should not design XMPP clients: https://github.com/KaidanIM/Kaidan/issues/220
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[08:07:18] <Kev> Swift autoaccepts requests too, but only for bidirectional
[08:07:55] <Kev> (If you send a subscription request to someone, it'll approve the one they send back)
[08:08:03] <jonasw> that makes sense
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[08:08:20] <daniel> > (If you send a subscription request to someone, it'll approve the one they send back)
Conversations does that too.
[08:08:39] <daniel> Even though that's actually what pre-approval is for
[08:08:42] <Ge0rG> it makes sense in a world where subscription shouldn't consist of directed graphs
[08:08:48] <daniel> Or pre Auth
[08:08:53] <Ge0rG> except pre-approval is not guaranteed
[08:08:56] <daniel> What ever that was called
[08:09:01] <Ge0rG> yaxim will do both
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[08:09:26] <Kev> But Swift doesn't talk about subscription requests, it just talks about Add Contact.
[08:09:27] <daniel> Did ejabberd start announcing that stream feature?
[08:10:12] <daniel> Because at some point it had support but didn't announce the feature which doesn't make sense this the RFC tells clients to only use it if the feature is announced
[08:10:28] <Ge0rG> I wonder how many of my Swift issues got fixed for 4.0.
[08:10:43] <Ge0rG> daniel: I'm using it anyway.
[08:10:56] *Ge0rG is a lazy and ignorant client dev
[08:10:56] <jonasw> Ge0rG, you do know that prosody doesn’t support it?
[08:11:02] <Ge0rG> jonasw: I know.
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[08:11:23] <Ge0rG> jonasw: but what's the worst thing that can happen if I send a pre-approval to a non-supporting server?
[08:11:39] <jonasw> <malformed-request/> stream error.
[08:11:43] <daniel> Stream error
[08:11:49] <daniel> 😂
[08:12:12] <jonasw> ah, <invalid-xml/>
[08:12:26] <Ge0rG> but it is valid xml. It just comes at the wrong time
[08:12:37] <jonasw> Ge0rG, invalid XML is for things which do not pass schema validation
[08:12:59] <Ge0rG> she-what? :P
[08:13:20] <jonasw> granted, I’d argue that such a server would be pretty weirdly designed to be gin with
[08:13:22] <jonasw> granted, I’d argue that such a server would be pretty weirdly designed to begin with
[08:14:00] <Ge0rG> jonasw: auto-generated by the schema-to-code thing we talked about yesternight.
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[08:14:55] *Ge0rG &
[08:15:10] <jonasw> fg
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[08:20:50] <Ge0rG> Bad memory access (SIGBUS)
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[14:38:25] <lovetox> in attic there is missing version 3.0 and 3.1 of httpupload https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0363.html
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[14:38:54] <jonasw> there is no 3.0
[14:38:55] <jonasw> or 3.1
[14:39:02] <jonasw> do you mean 0.3.0 and 0.3.1?
[14:39:20] <jonasw> (which are also missing, indeed)
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[14:39:24] <jonasw> I’ll regenerate them
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[14:40:31] <lovetox> yes i meant those
[14:40:47] <jonasw> will be up shortly
[14:40:55] <lovetox> thanks
[14:41:04] <jonasw> spoiler: 0.3.1 is only a typo fix ;)
[14:42:37] <jonasw> lovetox, will be available within the next five minutes
[14:43:24] *Ge0rG starts tea timer
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[14:51:29] <lovetox> what funny attack can you do if you have newline chars in a header value
[14:51:31] <lovetox> talking about httpupload
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[14:52:28] <jonasw> lovetox, escape from the header, depending on the brokenness of implementations involved
[14:54:01] <lovetox> the authorizartion value is base64 encoded
[14:54:37] <lovetox> this means i execute on that value .strip('\n')
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[14:54:49] <lovetox> not decode it and execute it on that
[14:55:01] <MattJ> Correct
[14:55:09] <lovetox> kk thanks
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[14:55:14] <jonasw> lovetox, that’s not sufficient
[14:55:19] <MattJ> The client is not expected to understand what the headers are
[14:55:22] <jonasw> .replace("\n", "") is safer
[14:55:34] <jonasw> or if "\n" in header_value: raise RuntimeError("gtfo")
[14:55:48] <lovetox> thats indeed better
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[14:56:06] <lovetox> i should just not upload to a service providing xep violating stuff
[14:56:24] <jonasw> probably
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[14:57:30] <lovetox> ups strip is only for beginn and end, indeed that would not be enough
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[14:57:50] <jonasw> t
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[17:49:14] <Ge0rG> Http upload is a small security nightmare.
[17:49:38] <Ge0rG> BTW, was there a change already restricting the legal header values?
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[17:51:08] <Ge0rG> > Requesting entities MUST ensure that only the headers that are explicitly allowed by this XEP (Authorization, Cookie, Expires) are copied from the slot response to the HTTP request.
Ah, yes. But it's still not enforced at protocol level
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[17:51:50] <rion> I've applied this restriction to Psi
[17:52:41] <Ge0rG> > MUST strip any newline characters
I wonder whether "newline characters" is too vague, as it's implementation defined
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[17:58:46] <moparisthebest> has anyone tried (ab)using SOCKS5 Bytestreams https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0065.html to poke at internal network stuff?
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[17:58:55] <moparisthebest> there aren't any security considerations about it
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[18:00:20] <rion> Do you mean sending something w/o opening filetransfer session of something?
[18:00:57] <rion> of traffic encryption
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[18:02:00] <Zash> moparisthebest: but both parties connect to the server, the server doesn't initiate anything outbound
[18:02:11] <Zash> moparisthebest: you might be able to trick remote clients into such things tho
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[18:02:14] <moparisthebest> like, the server has access to a 10.X.X.X private subnet external users do not have access to, can an external client do bad things
[18:02:37] <moparisthebest> yea that's another way to do it
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[18:06:09] <Ge0rG> You'd have to trick the client to connect to a "proxy" you defined
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[18:12:31] <Zash> I forget the details, but doesn't one party pick the proxies, the other responds with one it can connect to.
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[18:13:43] <Ge0rG> I never knew the details, so...
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[21:22:30] <peter> interesting reading: https://irisate.com/crdt-for-real-time-collaborative-apps/
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[21:39:34] <MattJ> It feels like only yesterday when Operation Transformation was the best thing ever
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[21:39:42] <Kev> You've gotten old.
[21:39:45] <MattJ> *Operational
[21:39:48] <MattJ> :(
[21:39:59] <Kev> Don't feel bad, I'll catch up soon.
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[23:21:28] <lovetox> i found this in gajim code
[23:21:39] <lovetox> when creating TLS connection we pass a cipher list
[23:21:39] <lovetox> 'HIGH:!aNULL:RC4-SHA'
[23:21:48] <lovetox> it this up to date?!
[23:21:55] <lovetox> i have no clue about ciphers :/
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[23:25:32] <Zash> If it's using a modern OpenSSL then I don't think you need to worry.
[23:27:38] <Zash> Only 'HIGH' seems to matter. Removing ciphers without authentication (aNULL) from the set of "highly secure" ciphers (HIGH) does nothing.
[23:27:44] <Zash> And RC4 doesn't seem to exist anymore.
[23:28:09] <SamWhited> Still, that doesn't seem like a good sign…
[23:29:25] <Holger> Zash: Unless things changed recently, HIGH does include aNULL ciphers.
[23:29:57] <Zash> Oh
[23:30:16] <Zash> Indeed
[23:30:43] <Zash> Hidden among all the various auth mechanisms that aren't used either
[23:30:43] <SamWhited> I'm more concerned that they would try to select RC4, regardless of whether it still exists in openssl or not.
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[23:31:11] <Zash> $ diff -u <(openssl ciphers -v HIGH) <(openssl ciphers -v 'HIGH:!aNULL')|q
https://q.zash.se/324a465c00bf.txt
[23:31:28] <Zash> on Debian Stable with OpenSSL 1.1.0f
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[23:32:27] <Zash> SamWhited: It's pretty good compared to cipher lists like this: https://q.zash.se/da0ffe1f3f82.txt
[23:33:12] <SamWhited> What's that from?
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[23:33:45] <Zash> Oooooooooold Jitsi
[23:34:16] <Zash> Possibly from 2013
[23:34:57] <Zash> https://blog.thijsalkema.de/blog/2013/09/02/the-state-of-tls-on-xmpp-3/
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[23:35:07] <Zash> From those days
[23:35:13] <SamWhited> fun… Java things always seem to be behind.
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[23:37:22] <SamWhited> huh, apparently RC4 was considered broken later than I thought
[23:37:22] <Zash> Defaults were pretty bad back then in most things.
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[23:37:52] <SamWhited> Still though, if you're still recomnending it today that's a pretty big red flag for gajim…
[23:38:28] <Zash> Hasn't RC4 been considered "icky but let's not worry too much about it" since forever?
[23:39:33] <SamWhited> I was thinking it was late 2013, but apparently it was 2015 that the IETF stopped telling people to use it in TLS.
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[23:42:49] <Zash> Comparing the current situation with that post would probably be interesting.
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