XSF Discussion - 2018-04-13


  1. Guus has left
  2. Dave Cridland has left
  3. lumi has joined
  4. waqas has left
  5. Maranda has left
  6. Maranda has joined
  7. peter has left
  8. Guus has left
  9. Maranda has left
  10. SamWhited has left
  11. la|r|ma has joined
  12. la|r|ma has joined
  13. daniel has left
  14. Maranda has left
  15. Maranda has left
  16. SamWhited has left
  17. daniel has left
  18. Dave Cridland has left
  19. Maranda has left
  20. SamWhited has left
  21. alexis has left
  22. Guus has left
  23. SamWhited has left
  24. la|r|ma has joined
  25. alexis has left
  26. alexis has left
  27. Guus has left
  28. Guus has left
  29. Dave Cridland has left
  30. SamWhited has left
  31. Guus has left
  32. Guus has left
  33. jere has left
  34. alexis has left
  35. jere has joined
  36. Guus has left
  37. Guus has left
  38. SamWhited has left
  39. lskdjf has left
  40. Chobbes has joined
  41. SamWhited has left
  42. SamWhited has left
  43. SamWhited has joined
  44. Guus has left
  45. efrit has joined
  46. Guus has left
  47. SamWhited has left
  48. SamWhited has joined
  49. Guus has left
  50. Guus has left
  51. SamWhited has left
  52. SamWhited has joined
  53. Guus has left
  54. SamWhited has left
  55. waqas has joined
  56. Guus has left
  57. SamWhited has joined
  58. moparisthebest has joined
  59. SamWhited has left
  60. alexis has left
  61. Guus has left
  62. SamWhited has joined
  63. Yagiza has joined
  64. SamWhited has left
  65. la|r|ma has joined
  66. Dave Cridland has left
  67. Guus has left
  68. Dave Cridland has left
  69. j.r has joined
  70. Dave Cridland has left
  71. lskdjf has joined
  72. daniel has left
  73. Dave Cridland has left
  74. Guus has left
  75. SamWhited has joined
  76. SamWhited has left
  77. Guus has left
  78. Dave Cridland has left
  79. Guus has left
  80. alexis has left
  81. Dave Cridland has left
  82. alexis has left
  83. Guus has left
  84. ralphm has joined
  85. Nekit has joined
  86. Dave Cridland has left
  87. efrit has left
  88. ludo has joined
  89. Guus has left
  90. ibikk has joined
  91. Dave Cridland has left
  92. SamWhited has joined
  93. Dave Cridland has left
  94. Tim has left
  95. SamWhited has left
  96. SamWhited has joined
  97. ralphm has joined
  98. Guus has left
  99. Nekit has left
  100. jere has joined
  101. Tim has joined
  102. ludo has left
  103. ludo has joined
  104. Tim has left
  105. ralphm has joined
  106. Dave Cridland has left
  107. Dave Cridland has left
  108. ralphm has joined
  109. Dave Cridland has left
  110. lnj has joined
  111. Tim has joined
  112. xnyhps has left
  113. xnyhps has joined
  114. alexis has left
  115. Dave Cridland has left
  116. Dave Cridland has left
  117. Tim has joined
  118. SamWhited has left
  119. Chobbes has joined
  120. Tim has joined
  121. mimi89999 has left
  122. mimi89999 has left
  123. SamWhited has joined
  124. mimi89999 has joined
  125. SamWhited has left
  126. SamWhited has joined
  127. Dave Cridland has left
  128. SamWhited has left
  129. SamWhited has joined
  130. Tim has joined
  131. SamWhited has left
  132. j.r has left
  133. Tim has joined
  134. j.r has joined
  135. Dave Cridland has left
  136. rion has joined
  137. Dave Cridland has left
  138. Tim has left
  139. Neustradamus has left
  140. Neustradamus has joined
  141. Valerian has joined
  142. SamWhited has joined
  143. ludo has left
  144. ludo has joined
  145. SamWhited has left
  146. Yagiza has left
  147. zeank has joined
  148. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  149. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  150. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  151. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  152. sezuan has left
  153. Dave Cridland has left
  154. SamWhited has joined
  155. Dave Cridland has left
  156. daniel has left
  157. Tim has left
  158. Tim has joined
  159. Valerian has left
  160. Valerian has joined
  161. Tim has joined
  162. lnj has left
  163. Tim has joined
  164. Steve has joined
  165. Tim has joined
  166. Steve has left
  167. Valerian has left
  168. Valerian has joined
  169. Tim has joined
  170. rion has left
  171. Dave Cridland has left
  172. Dave Cridland has left
  173. Nekit has left
  174. Nekit has joined
  175. Tim has joined
  176. Dave Cridland has left
  177. zeank has joined
  178. Dave Cridland has left
  179. Dave Cridland has left
  180. rion has joined
  181. Steve has joined
  182. Steve has left
  183. zeank has joined
  184. Dave Cridland has left
  185. zeank has left
  186. jubalh has joined
  187. jubalh has left
  188. Dave Cridland has left
  189. Dave Cridland has left
  190. Tim has joined
  191. Tim has left
  192. Tim has joined
  193. Dave Cridland has left
  194. alexis has left
  195. Tim has joined
  196. ta has left
  197. Tim has joined
  198. Guus has left
  199. Dave Cridland has left
  200. lnj has joined
  201. zeank has joined
  202. alexis has left
  203. Dave Cridland has left
  204. Dave Cridland has left
  205. Steve has joined
  206. Steve has left
  207. zeank has joined
  208. zeank has left
  209. jubalh has joined
  210. Tim has joined
  211. Dave Cridland has left
  212. Tim has joined
  213. Tim has joined
  214. Tim has joined
  215. Nekit has left
  216. Nekit has joined
  217. lnj has left
  218. Dave Cridland has left
  219. waqas has left
  220. ralphm has joined
  221. Dave Cridland has left
  222. Guus has left
  223. Chobbes has left
  224. Chobbes has joined
  225. marc has joined
  226. Guus has left
  227. SaltyBones has left
  228. ralphm has left
  229. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  230. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  231. ralphm has joined
  232. ludo has left
  233. ludo has joined
  234. Valerian has left
  235. Valerian has joined
  236. Valerian has left
  237. Valerian has joined
  238. Valerian has left
  239. Valerian has joined
  240. tux has joined
  241. marc has left
  242. alexis has left
  243. Guus has left
  244. SaltyBones has left
  245. alexis has left
  246. Guus has left
  247. alexis has left
  248. winfried has left
  249. Valerian has left
  250. Valerian has joined
  251. Guus has left
  252. daniel has left
  253. daniel has left
  254. Tobias has joined
  255. Tobias has joined
  256. UsL has joined
  257. Dave Cridland has left
  258. Guus has left
  259. alexis has left
  260. Maranda Ge0rG and sorted the GC1 directed presence stuff now it tracks those too (also for carbons)
  261. Valerian has left
  262. Valerian has joined
  263. Dave Cridland has left
  264. ludo has left
  265. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  266. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  267. daniel has left
  268. ludo has joined
  269. mimi89999 has left
  270. Ge0rG Maranda: what do you do with Carbons differently?
  271. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  272. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  273. SaltyBones has joined
  274. daniel has joined
  275. Dave Cridland has left
  276. Guus has left
  277. Maranda Not much, it checked muc whispers looking into the resource session's "joined mucs" table before but that didnt cover GC1, now it'll fall back to the directed bare I added in that case covering it.
  278. jubalh has left
  279. Maranda also removed a loop so it's a pro point as we
  280. Maranda As well*
  281. ludo has left
  282. ludo has joined
  283. Steve Kille has left
  284. rtq3 has joined
  285. Steve Kille has left
  286. Dave Cridland has left
  287. Steve Kille has joined
  288. Nekit has joined
  289. Maranda Ge0rG and outside mucs there's no use I currently see of directed presences as well so it's safe enough to make an assumption
  290. ralphm has joined
  291. Ge0rG has left
  292. daniel has left
  293. Ge0rG has left
  294. j.r has joined
  295. nyco has left
  296. ralphm has left
  297. ralphm has joined
  298. Martin has joined
  299. Tim has joined
  300. blabla has left
  301. rion has left
  302. rion has joined
  303. Valerian has left
  304. Valerian has joined
  305. ralphm has joined
  306. Valerian has left
  307. winfried has left
  308. Valerian has joined
  309. jonasw has left
  310. Valerian has left
  311. Dave Cridland has left
  312. Tim has joined
  313. Holger has left
  314. rion has left
  315. Valerian has joined
  316. Dave Cridland has left
  317. ralphm has joined
  318. jonasw has left
  319. alexis has left
  320. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  321. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  322. lskdjf has joined
  323. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  324. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  325. ralphm has joined
  326. Dave Cridland has left
  327. Yagiza has joined
  328. ralphm has left
  329. ralphm has joined
  330. Dave Cridland has left
  331. rtq3 has left
  332. alexis has left
  333. Yagiza has left
  334. Yagiza has joined
  335. Valerian has left
  336. Martin has left
  337. Dave Cridland has left
  338. ta has joined
  339. Martin has joined
  340. Dave Cridland has left
  341. ralphm has joined
  342. ralphm has joined
  343. Dave Cridland has left
  344. rtq3 has joined
  345. j.r has joined
  346. alexis has left
  347. alexis has left
  348. @Alacer has left
  349. @Alacer has joined
  350. Dave Cridland has left
  351. rtq3 has left
  352. Dave Cridland has left
  353. daniel has left
  354. Dave Cridland has left
  355. Dave Cridland has left
  356. sezuan has left
  357. rtq3 has joined
  358. winfried has left
  359. Guus has left
  360. daniel has left
  361. rtq3 has left
  362. Yagiza has left
  363. ralphm has joined
  364. alexis has left
  365. Guus has left
  366. goffi has joined
  367. daniel has joined
  368. Guus has left
  369. tux has left
  370. tux has joined
  371. Guus has left
  372. daniel has left
  373. daniel has joined
  374. Martin has left
  375. vanitasvitae has joined
  376. Nekit has joined
  377. lumi has joined
  378. Guus has left
  379. Ge0rG I don't know what the use case for directed presence was...
  380. blabla has left
  381. goffi has left
  382. Martin has joined
  383. goffi has joined
  384. ali has joined
  385. Dave Cridland has left
  386. Holger > In general, a client sends directed presence when it wishes to share availability information with an entity that is not subscribed to its presence, typically on a temporary basis. Common uses of directed presence include casual one-to-one chat sessions as described under Section 5.1 and multi-user chat rooms as described in [XEP-0045].
  387. Holger And I've seen IoT people doing directed presence for some reason.
  388. Dave Cridland has left
  389. edhelas has left
  390. Zash Jingle maybe
  391. edhelas has left
  392. rtq3 has joined
  393. ralphm has joined
  394. Yagiza has joined
  395. jubalh has joined
  396. UsL has joined
  397. UsL has joined
  398. Dave Cridland has left
  399. winfried has left
  400. lnj has joined
  401. jubalh has joined
  402. jubalh has left
  403. Alex has joined
  404. Martin has left
  405. jonasw has left
  406. jonasw has joined
  407. jonasw has left
  408. jonasw has joined
  409. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  410. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  411. ralphm has joined
  412. ralphm has joined
  413. lumi has left
  414. ralphm has left
  415. alexis has left
  416. ralphm has joined
  417. Tim has joined
  418. lovetox has joined
  419. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  420. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  421. jere has joined
  422. lovetox jonasw, Ge0rG: did one of you implement that coloring xep? maybe in a python lib that i now just can use 😃?
  423. jonasw lovetox, jclib has the functions
  424. jonasw I also have some stuff in C++
  425. jonasw lovetox, I wanted to make it a standalone lib but never gotten around to do it
  426. Ge0rG externalize everything! `pip install left-align`
  427. jonasw Ge0rG, this is python, not node.js
  428. lovetox ok nice thanks i will look into it
  429. Ge0rG jonasw: or is it?
  430. rtq3 has left
  431. jonasw lovetox, jclib doesn’t have a license file, but it’s going to be GPLv3+ or LGPLv3+. you can extract and use the coloring stuff under MIT, Apache 2.0 or 3-clause BSD, whatever pleases you.
  432. lnj has left
  433. jonasw no guarantee that it’s 100% the XEP as it stands right now, I might’ve some experiment in there
  434. jonasw double-check the constants
  435. lovetox people can say about python what they want, but so many people using it and because of it so many libs and code exists is such a huge plus that language architecture details dont really matter
  436. lovetox yes thanks
  437. jonasw ah yes, it’s not what’s in the XEP atm.
  438. lovetox jonasw, doesnt really matter for me now
  439. Ge0rG jonasw: have a different branch :P
  440. lovetox i just need something that colors my nicks
  441. jonasw yeah, the difference is minor
  442. Dave Cridland has left
  443. lovetox ah i really have to try now to run a minimal gtk application with aioxmpp
  444. lovetox i wanted to do this for a long time
  445. UsL has joined
  446. UsL has joined
  447. matlag has left
  448. rtq3 has joined
  449. jonasw I had a basic demo somewhere, but it might’ve been lost
  450. matlag has joined
  451. UsL has left
  452. lovetox if it works with gtk, i definitly plan to try and port gajim to it
  453. marmistrz has left
  454. Ge0rG Yeah, finally consistent colors!
  455. jonasw neeaaat
  456. UsL has joined
  457. Ge0rG I totally love it.
  458. jonasw lovetox, you might wanna look into jclib instead/in addition
  459. Ge0rG But maybe I'm an OCD nerd.
  460. jonasw Ge0rG, :)
  461. jonasw it’s a bit more high-level than aioxmpp. it’s essentially the non-GUI part of jabbercat
  462. daniel has left
  463. lovetox to be honest i just need the low level socket stuff
  464. Ge0rG It's great that there are four different XMPP libraries for python
  465. ralphm has joined
  466. jonasw Ge0rG, if lovetox pulls the port off, it’s down to three...
  467. Ge0rG We should rename XMPP to NIHP
  468. UsL has left
  469. Steve Kille has left
  470. lovetox gajim uses nbxmpp only for connection and roster
  471. lovetox every other xep is in gajim code implemented
  472. Kev So, five then? :)
  473. lovetox 😃
  474. Ge0rG Yeah.
  475. jonasw lovetox, ah okay, then it’s like, just use aioxmpp.Client
  476. lovetox no joke, people asked on the list that gajim should be able to run without gui
  477. Kev At least there's only one Qt/C++ client :)
  478. lovetox and send events via dbus
  479. lovetox so they can use it to write gui around it
  480. lovetox 😃
  481. Ge0rG Kev: because no sane people use C++ today :P
  482. Ge0rG D-Bus.
  483. Kev Ge0rG: Also, I think there's five, or something.
  484. jonasw lovetox, I thought about that model actually, but I found that it will rarely be sufficient.
  485. Ge0rG Isn't D-Bus similar to XMPP, conceptually?
  486. Ge0rG Wasn't there some discussion of that failed idea in the context of telepathy?
  487. Anu has joined
  488. jonasw Ge0rG, pep., winfried, in case you missed it: https://www.earth.li/mailman/listinfo/gdpr-discuss
  489. Ge0rG Where the maintainer complained in public how it was a horrible idea to have a local generic abstraction of IM services
  490. jubalh has joined
  491. alexis has left
  492. jubalh has left
  493. Dave Cridland has left
  494. daniel has left
  495. Martin has joined
  496. UsL has joined
  497. pep. Ge0rG, yeah I pasted that here a while back if you want to look at your logs
  498. Yagiza has left
  499. pep. jonasw, saw it! thanks. Not sure if we should start something there already?
  500. pep. Maybe just drop a word that we're having a look at it in public
  501. jonasw stpeter already sent two mails there
  502. pep. Ah ok
  503. jonasw yeah I thought about that too
  504. jonasw stpeters mail was not directly related to our discussions though
  505. ali has left
  506. pep. Ge0rG, https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2017-September/msg00047.html
  507. moparisthebest has left
  508. Yagiza has joined
  509. Anu I always felt many architectural decisions like this were influenced by x. Back in the day everything was slow when rendering remotely so no one would notice
  510. Ge0rG pep.: great, thanks
  511. alexis has left
  512. jonasw You lose a huge amount by not being able to have your protocol code in the same process as the UI, unless you write an API which basically _is_ your protocol, or an API which is the UI, but the bigger the gap between the two, the more developers fall into that pit and don't get any UI or protocol work done. :)
  513. jonasw this is so true
  514. jonasw whenever I thought about whether it’s somehow reasonable to separate jabbercat in multiple processes (for whatever gain, I had various insane ideas), I ended up with excatly that: my IPC protocol would’ve been essentially XMPP•
  515. Zash This was what Jabber was originally designed for after all :)
  516. lnj has joined
  517. alexis has left
  518. Ge0rG jonasw: I've experienced that the hard way with yaxim as well. The foundation was written by two CS students who overengineered everything.
  519. Anu Yup, this was how Monal on Mac developed too. There was a minor justification 10 years ago because I also had Oscar but it just started replicating stuff
  520. Anu I think convemourally ui logic should be separate makes sense
  521. Ge0rG Nine years later, I finally added a shortcut from the UI through the service, data provider into the XMPP implementation
  522. jonasw if anything, jabbercat will ship/be able to directly interface with a local biboumi at some point.
  523. Ge0rG via XMPP or via C++ API calls?
  524. Anu Dbus sounds like mvc taken to a logical extreme :) . Just ditch the view
  525. Ge0rG Just do everything ith XMPP Data Forms.
  526. Guus has left
  527. jonasw Ge0rG, XMPP
  528. Dave Cridland has left
  529. jonasw Ge0rG, when I have a massive surplus of energy next, I want to implement the server-side of the Component protocol in aioxmpp for an experiment.
  530. ali has joined
  531. lovetox I wonder what happend to Link Mauve server jingle component
  532. lovetox btw Link Mauve seems absent for a while now
  533. moparisthebest jonasw, is it going to be useable from other clients or only locally?
  534. jonasw moparisthebest, locally
  535. jonasw obviously
  536. jonasw we don’t have a way to host components in clients.
  537. moparisthebest not if you used my amazing echo-self :P
  538. jonasw that’s a crude hack which I won’t support.
  539. moparisthebest yes, because breaking carbons/mam is superior
  540. moparisthebest ...
  541. Steve Kille has joined
  542. Ge0rG jonasw: you might want to make a separate lib sor server things
  543. Dave Cridland has left
  544. jonasw Ge0rG, it’s not meant to be a server thing
  545. jonasw it’s meant to be a shim wrapper to make use of components locally. I don’t even know if that’ll work.
  546. jonasw I don’t intend to get into server business.
  547. goffi has left
  548. rtq3 has left
  549. jere has joined
  550. alexis has left
  551. ali has joined
  552. Guus has left
  553. Tobias has joined
  554. ralphm has joined
  555. vanitasvitae has left
  556. Kev has left
  557. winfried has left
  558. daniel has left
  559. alexis has left
  560. Valerian has joined
  561. ralphm has joined
  562. Guus has left
  563. daniel has left
  564. Dave Cridland has left
  565. Alex has left
  566. alexis has left
  567. rtq3 has joined
  568. pep. lovetox: he's busy with the strikes in France :p
  569. alexis has left
  570. Martin has left
  571. pep. goffi also has a jingle component implementation btw
  572. Dave Cridland has left
  573. alexis has left
  574. goffi has left
  575. nyco has joined
  576. alexis has left
  577. Alex has joined
  578. Dave Cridland has left
  579. Valerian has left
  580. Valerian has joined
  581. daniel has left
  582. Dave Cridland has left
  583. efrit has joined
  584. ralphm has joined
  585. alexis has left
  586. Martin has joined
  587. rtq3 has left
  588. rtq3 has joined
  589. alexis has left
  590. goffi has left
  591. lovetox has left
  592. daniel has left
  593. marmistrz has left
  594. alexis has left
  595. Tobias has joined
  596. alexis has left
  597. mrdoctorwho has left
  598. alexis has left
  599. rtq3 has left
  600. marmistrz has left
  601. la|r|ma has left
  602. ali has left
  603. alexis has left
  604. Guus has left
  605. Dave Cridland has left
  606. alexis has left
  607. Guus has left
  608. alexis has left
  609. Martin has left
  610. Dave Cridland has left
  611. Dave Cridland has left
  612. alexis has left
  613. Guus has left
  614. Guus has left
  615. alexis has left
  616. ralphm has joined
  617. alexis has left
  618. blabla has joined
  619. Steve Kille has left
  620. rtq3 has joined
  621. Dave Cridland has left
  622. Dave Cridland has left
  623. ralphm has joined
  624. valo has left
  625. valo has joined
  626. daniel has left
  627. Tim has left
  628. alexis has left
  629. ralphm has joined
  630. Dave Cridland has left
  631. goffi has left
  632. Kev has left
  633. alexis has left
  634. Guus has left
  635. rtq3 has left
  636. la|r|ma has joined
  637. goffi has left
  638. ralphm has joined
  639. j.r has joined
  640. Dave Cridland has left
  641. alexis has left
  642. la|r|ma has left
  643. la|r|ma has joined
  644. Guus has left
  645. goffi has left
  646. Valerian has left
  647. Valerian has joined
  648. ludo has left
  649. ludo has joined
  650. alexis has left
  651. alexis has left
  652. rtq3 has joined
  653. ludo has left
  654. ludo has joined
  655. marc has joined
  656. alexis has left
  657. la|r|ma has joined
  658. waqas has joined
  659. jubalh has joined
  660. alexis has left
  661. SamWhited has left
  662. Guus has left
  663. SamWhited has joined
  664. Guus has left
  665. daniel has left
  666. Tim has joined
  667. Tim has joined
  668. Tim has joined
  669. rtq3 has left
  670. rtq3 has joined
  671. marc has left
  672. marc has joined
  673. SamWhited has left
  674. Tim has joined
  675. Guus has left
  676. SamWhited has left
  677. SamWhited has joined
  678. Dave Cridland has left
  679. Guus has left
  680. Guus has left
  681. jubalh has left
  682. daniel has left
  683. efrit has left
  684. Nekit has left
  685. jubalh has joined
  686. goffi has joined
  687. la|r|ma has joined
  688. SamWhited has left
  689. Guus has left
  690. Nekit has joined
  691. sezuan has left
  692. Valerian has left
  693. Valerian has joined
  694. valo has joined
  695. marmistrz has left
  696. mimi89999 has joined
  697. daniel has left
  698. Valerian has left
  699. Yagiza has left
  700. Valerian has joined
  701. tux has joined
  702. Valerian has left
  703. Guus has left
  704. Valerian has joined
  705. alexis has left
  706. Guus has left
  707. Tim has joined
  708. Guus has left
  709. Nekit has left
  710. Nekit has joined
  711. Valerian has left
  712. Valerian has joined
  713. @Alacer has left
  714. @Alacer has joined
  715. ludo has left
  716. ludo has joined
  717. marc has left
  718. Valerian has left
  719. SamWhited has left
  720. Tim has joined
  721. Tim has joined
  722. Ge0rG winfried: I just realized that http://thealiceandbobsuicide.org redirects to your homepage. I'd really love that page to re-appear again, is that feasible?
  723. daniel has left
  724. Maranda 😁
  725. Maranda We shall make an e2ee sticker with it
  726. Ge0rG I was linking to the archive.org cache, but it's down today.
  727. jubalh has joined
  728. SamWhited has left
  729. jjrh has left
  730. Yagiza has joined
  731. Guus has left
  732. rtq3 has left
  733. rtq3 has joined
  734. marc has joined
  735. jubalh has left
  736. jubalh has joined
  737. daniel has left
  738. jjrh has left
  739. jjrh has left
  740. SaltyBones has left
  741. Tim has joined
  742. Yagiza has left
  743. Tim has joined
  744. SaltyBones has joined
  745. Alex has left
  746. marmistrz has left
  747. SamWhited has left
  748. Dave Cridland has left
  749. daniel has left
  750. Tim has joined
  751. lumi has joined
  752. ta has left
  753. ludo has left
  754. valo has joined
  755. Zash has left
  756. winfried Ge0rG: maybe in a bit different form: I don't want to go through the hassle of maintaining a WordPress site for just two static pages again....
  757. Zash has left
  758. Syndace has joined
  759. moparisthebest winfried, wget the page from archive.org, put it at that path?
  760. MattJ It's just text, any simple HTML page would suffice
  761. alexis has left
  762. moparisthebest while we are on the subject, Ge0rG always links it as some type of argument against e2e, can anyone explain that to me?
  763. moparisthebest the only argument I can glean from it is something like "e2e doesn't protect against everything, so why bother" which is dumb
  764. moparisthebest or "sometimes software has bugs, so why bother" in which case why are we here
  765. daniel has left
  766. daniel has left
  767. jjrh has left
  768. Guus has left
  769. SamWhited heh, I'd forgotten about that; I didn't realize that was your site winfried, well done
  770. alexis has left
  771. Dave Cridland has left
  772. Dave Cridland has left
  773. SamWhited has left
  774. Guus has left
  775. la|r|ma has joined
  776. ralphm has joined
  777. rion has joined
  778. peter has joined
  779. jjrh has left
  780. daniel has left
  781. Ge0rG Yeah, kudos for it
  782. Steve Kille has left
  783. Steve Kille has left
  784. moparisthebest so what am I missing? any takers on explaining it to me? :)
  785. vanitasvitae has joined
  786. @Alacer has left
  787. @Alacer has joined
  788. sezuan has left
  789. Kev has left
  790. Guus has left
  791. @Alacer has left
  792. @Alacer has joined
  793. Steve Kille has joined
  794. jjrh has left
  795. SamWhited has left
  796. lumi has joined
  797. Guus has left
  798. rtq3 has left
  799. Zash has left
  800. Maranda has left
  801. Guus has left
  802. rtq3 has joined
  803. vanitasvitae has left
  804. SamWhited has left
  805. daniel has left
  806. jubalh has joined
  807. Steve Kille has left
  808. winfried moparisthebest: working on restoring it ;-)
  809. rion has left
  810. rion has joined
  811. Kev has left
  812. moparisthebest winfried, well I've read them both from https://web.archive.org/web/20110501005631/http://thealiceandbobsuicide.org/ but I still must be missing the point
  813. Dave Cridland has left
  814. Dave Cridland has left
  815. Dave Cridland has left
  816. SamWhited has left
  817. ralphm has joined
  818. @Alacer has left
  819. @Alacer has joined
  820. jjrh has left
  821. @Alacer has left
  822. @Alacer has joined
  823. @Alacer has left
  824. @Alacer has joined
  825. Dave Cridland has left
  826. rion has left
  827. winfried moparisthebest I would like grasp where you are missing the point
  828. moparisthebest winfried, I'm only seeing 2 possible arguments either "e2e doesn't protect against everything, so why bother" or "sometimes software has bugs, so why bother"
  829. ta has left
  830. jjrh has left
  831. mimi89999 has left
  832. daniel has left
  833. winfried The point I had in mind while setting it up is: we are suggesting a sense of security by the way we talk about technology, but we can't guarantee that
  834. Guus has left
  835. Maranda Which is not hard at all to understand..
  836. moparisthebest well I completely understand and agree with that
  837. winfried I never wanted to imply 'why bother' btw, just be very careful
  838. SamWhited has left
  839. Dave Cridland has left
  840. moparisthebest the only way I've seen people *use* the site before is in the context of "e2e is a complete waste, don't bother, see http://thealiceandbobsuicide.org/"
  841. moparisthebest which is what I was disagreeing with
  842. winfried and e2e: I still want to write a nasty rant against e2e :-D
  843. Zash Hmmmm what?
  844. Dave Cridland has left
  845. winfried thealiceandbobsuicide.org can be used against e2e, as much as against any security technology that is presented as THE solution for every problem
  846. moparisthebest right, I just think it needs to be clear what a particular technology does/protects against, and what it does not
  847. jjrh has left
  848. SamWhited has left
  849. Guus has left
  850. Guus has left
  851. jjrh has left
  852. daniel has left
  853. waqas has left
  854. Guus has left
  855. winfried moparisthebest: yes, and we need to aware of issues created by the platform, (human) circumstances etc. I have literally spend days on fairs where companies were selling boxes that were welded shut with the promise that if you put them in your network, your network is save. Right...
  856. Zash has left
  857. Zash has left
  858. Zash has joined
  859. winfried https://www.tilanus.com/#weblog_pantsdown
  860. marc has left
  861. moparisthebest winfried, yea that's just the misconception that closed/black box means secure, when the opposite is true
  862. moparisthebest I saw one not too long ago, promised secure email, ended up being a raspberry pi glued inside a fancy case with numerous security flaws, can't find it now...
  863. waqas has joined
  864. waqas has left
  865. winfried a Dutch company sold pgp-phones. All secret keys were generated and stored on a server in Canada. All the police had to do, was to seize that server and they could catch tens of heavy criminals
  866. daniel has left
  867. ibikk has left
  868. moparisthebest ha I found it winfried https://www.nomx.com/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/punching-holes-in-nomx-the-worlds-most-secure-communications-protocol/
  869. Dave Cridland has left
  870. ludo has left
  871. ludo has joined
  872. jjrh has left
  873. Guus has left
  874. jjrh has left
  875. jjrh has left
  876. alexis has left
  877. ibikk has joined
  878. jjrh has left
  879. Dave Cridland has left
  880. jjrh has left
  881. jjrh has left
  882. Dave Cridland has left
  883. jjrh has left
  884. marc has left
  885. ibikk has joined
  886. vanitasvitae has left
  887. winfried moparisthebest: yeah, great story too!
  888. j.r has joined
  889. waqas has joined
  890. jjrh has left
  891. jjrh has left
  892. j.r has left
  893. j.r has joined
  894. la|r|ma has joined
  895. alexis has left
  896. Zash has left
  897. SamWhited has left
  898. daniel has left
  899. Guus has left
  900. SamWhited has left
  901. alexis has left
  902. efrit has joined
  903. peter has left
  904. lumi has joined
  905. Guus has left
  906. jjrh has left
  907. Dave Cridland has left
  908. jjrh has left
  909. jjrh has left
  910. jjrh has left
  911. SamWhited has left
  912. SamWhited has left
  913. daniel has left
  914. SamWhited has joined
  915. ralphm has joined
  916. alexis has left
  917. ralphm has left
  918. alexis has left
  919. jjrh has left
  920. goffi has left
  921. Valerian has joined
  922. jjrh has left
  923. ralphm has joined
  924. Ge0rG Like the story of the NSA compromising Gemalto to obtain the secret keys of all SIM cards.
  925. Kev has joined
  926. Dave Cridland has left
  927. jubalh has joined
  928. moparisthebest and this is why, pre-2013 people could go "this is make believe, you are protecting against a non-existant threat"
  929. moparisthebest then 2013 happened and there is proof it's a thing that happens daily
  930. ralphm has joined
  931. Dave Cridland has left
  932. j.r has left
  933. j.r has joined
  934. SamWhited has left
  935. blabla has joined
  936. ludo has left
  937. ludo has joined
  938. ralphm has joined
  939. daniel has left
  940. valo has joined
  941. alexis has left
  942. Valerian has left
  943. Valerian has joined
  944. ludo has left
  945. ludo has joined
  946. @Alacer has left
  947. @Alacer has joined
  948. SamWhited has joined
  949. ludo has left
  950. ludo has joined
  951. ralphm has joined
  952. ralphm has joined
  953. SamWhited has left
  954. Zash has left
  955. SamWhited has joined
  956. j.r has joined
  957. j.r has joined
  958. daniel has left
  959. lnj has left
  960. j.r has joined
  961. j.r has joined
  962. Valerian has left
  963. peter has joined
  964. SamWhited has left
  965. SamWhited has joined
  966. Dave Cridland has left
  967. peter has left
  968. Dave Cridland has left
  969. SamWhited has left
  970. daniel has left
  971. marmistrz has joined
  972. SamWhited has joined
  973. ralphm has joined
  974. jubalh has joined
  975. Maranda funny, this code was so stupidly broken yet it *worked*
  976. Maranda is in one of those "gawd" moments.
  977. marmistrz has joined
  978. Maranda (... and obviously fixing something else broken it.)
  979. Maranda (... and obviously fixing something else borked it.)
  980. ralphm has joined
  981. blabla has left
  982. jjrh has left
  983. edhelas PHP 5.4, wow
  984. jjrh has left
  985. Ge0rG has left
  986. ludo has left
  987. ludo has joined
  988. SamWhited has left
  989. Nekit has left
  990. ludo has left
  991. ludo has joined
  992. SamWhited has joined
  993. Nekit has left
  994. SamWhited has left
  995. Dave Cridland has left
  996. Tobias has joined
  997. Guus has left
  998. moparisthebest has joined
  999. Dave Cridland has left
  1000. SamWhited has joined
  1001. daniel has left
  1002. ralphm has joined
  1003. Dave Cridland has left
  1004. SamWhited has left
  1005. Dave Cridland has left
  1006. ludo has left
  1007. Dave Cridland has left
  1008. jjrh has left
  1009. SamWhited has joined
  1010. Dave Cridland has left
  1011. lnj has left
  1012. vanitasvitae has left
  1013. SamWhited has left
  1014. ibikk has joined
  1015. SaltyBones has left
  1016. jjrh has left
  1017. Guus has left
  1018. daniel has left
  1019. SamWhited has joined
  1020. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  1021. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  1022. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  1023. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  1024. j.r has left
  1025. tux has joined
  1026. SamWhited has left
  1027. tux has left
  1028. Guus has left
  1029. Guus has left
  1030. Guus has left
  1031. daniel has left
  1032. SamWhited has joined
  1033. peter has joined
  1034. Dave Cridland has left
  1035. valo has joined
  1036. j.r has joined
  1037. jjrh has left
  1038. jubalh has joined
  1039. boothj5 has joined
  1040. boothj5 has left
  1041. Dave Cridland has left
  1042. alexis has left
  1043. Dave Cridland has left
  1044. Dave Cridland has left
  1045. Dave Cridland has left
  1046. Dave Cridland has left
  1047. Dave Cridland has left
  1048. Dave Cridland has left
  1049. SaltyBones has left
  1050. marc has joined
  1051. SamWhited has left
  1052. Dave Cridland has left
  1053. Dave Cridland has left
  1054. Dave Cridland has left
  1055. SamWhited has joined
  1056. goffi has left
  1057. jubalh has joined
  1058. jubalh has left
  1059. la|r|ma has joined
  1060. nyco has left
  1061. nyco has joined
  1062. SamWhited has left
  1063. daniel has left
  1064. Maranda has left
  1065. daniel has left
  1066. alexis has left
  1067. Guus has left
  1068. winfried has left
  1069. winfried has left
  1070. daniel has left
  1071. winfried has left
  1072. Zash has left
  1073. Dave Cridland has left
  1074. SamWhited has joined
  1075. Guus has left
  1076. alexis has left
  1077. marc has left
  1078. Maranda has left
  1079. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  1080. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  1081. Andrew Nenakhov has left
  1082. Andrew Nenakhov has joined
  1083. Guus has left
  1084. SamWhited has left
  1085. daniel has left
  1086. waqas has left
  1087. Zash has left
  1088. waqas has joined
  1089. valo has left
  1090. daniel has left
  1091. lskdjf has left
  1092. lskdjf has joined
  1093. peter has left
  1094. SamWhited has left
  1095. marmistrz has joined
  1096. Zash has left
  1097. SamWhited has left
  1098. Guus has left
  1099. rtq3 has left
  1100. ralphm has joined
  1101. rtq3 has joined
  1102. waqas has left
  1103. daniel has left
  1104. SamWhited has left
  1105. SamWhited has left
  1106. rtq3 has left
  1107. rtq3 has joined
  1108. jjrh has left
  1109. waqas has joined
  1110. daniel has left
  1111. Guus has left
  1112. rtq3 has left
  1113. rtq3 has joined
  1114. jjrh has left
  1115. jjrh has left
  1116. daniel has left
  1117. SamWhited has left
  1118. Dave Cridland has left
  1119. daniel has left
  1120. Dave Cridland has left
  1121. Dave Cridland has left
  1122. Dave Cridland has left
  1123. Guus has left